Skip to main content

Full text of "Hearings regarding Communist espionage in the United States Government. Hearings"

See other formats


r^ 


-^ 


t 


cM 


0  _0^ML.^}^6  cr. 


Given  By 
U.  S.  SUPT.  OF  DOCUMENTS 


^ 


I 


\5 


HEA^GSjlEGARDING  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGEIN  THE 
UNITED  STATES  GOVERNMENT 


, ,     HEARINGS 


BEFORE  THE 


COMMITTEE  ON  UN-AMERICAN  ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE  OF  REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTIETH  CONGRESS 

SECOND  SESSION 


Public  Law  601 

(Section  121,  Subsection  Q  (2) ) 


;'ULY  31 ;  AUGUST  3,  4, 5,  7,  9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18, 
20.  24,  25,  26,  27,  30 ;  SEPTEMBER  8  AND  9, 1948 


Printed  for  the  use  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities 


1 1 


HEARINGS  REGARDING  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  IN  THE 
UNITED  STATES  GOVERNMENT 


HEARINGS 

BEFORE  THE 

COMMITTEE  ON  UN-AMERICAN  ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE  OF  REPRESENTATIVES 

EIGHTIETH  CONGRESS 

SECOND  SESSION 


Public  Law  601 

(Section  121,  Subsection  Q  (2)) 


JULY  31 ;  AUGUST  3,  4,  5,  7,  9,  10,  11,  12,  13,  16,  17,  18, 
20,  24,  25,  26,  27,  30;  SEPTEMBER  8  AND  9,  1948 


Printed  for  the  use  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities 


UNITED   STATES 
GOVERNMENT  PRINTING   OFFICE 
80408  WASHINGTON  :   1948 


OCT  221948 


s?;? 


COMMITTEE  ON  UN-AMERICAN  ACTIVITIES 

J.  PARNELL  THOMAS,  New  Jersey,  Chairman 
KARL  E.  MUNDT,  South  Dakota  JOHN  S.  WOOD,  Georgia 

JOHN  Mcdowell,  Pennsylvania  JOHN  E.  RANKIN,  Mississippi 

RICHARD  M.  NIXON,  California  J.  HARDIN  PETERSON,  Florida 

RICHARD  B.  VAIL,  Illinois  F.  EDWARD  HUBERT,  Louisiana 

Robert  B.  Stripling,  Chief  Investigator 
Benjamin  Mandel,  Director  of  Research 


NOTE. — These  hearings  begin  with  page  501,  in  accordance  with  the  system  of  consecutive 
numbering  adopted  by  the  committee  during  the  second  session.  Eightieth  Congress.  Page  Nos. 
1-500  are  contained  in  Hearings  on  Proposed  Legislation  to  Curb  or  Control  the  Communist 
Party  of  the  United  States. 

II 


CONTENTS 


July  31,  1948  :  ^^^^ 

Testimouy  of  Elizabeth  Terrill  Bentley 503 

August  3,  1948 : 

Testimony  of  David  Whittaker  Chambers 563 

August  4,  1948 : 

Testimony  of — 

Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster 5ST 

Elizabeth  T.  Bentley 604 

Louis  J.  Russell 612 

August  5,  1948  : 

Testimony  of — 

Hon.'Fred  E.  Busbey 625 

Alger  Hiss 642 

August  7,  1948 : 

Testimony  of  David  Whittaker  Chambers 661 

August  9,  1948 : 

Testimony  of — 

Alexander  Koral 674 

Victor    Perlo 677 

p:iizabeth  T.  Bentley 687 

"Victor  Perlo  (resumed) 693 

Gilda  de  Fi'ank  Burke 701 

Alexander  Koral    (resumed) 704 

Louis  J.  Russell 711 

August  10,  1948 : 
Testimony  of — 

Duncan  Chaplin  Lee 715 

Elizabeth   T.   Bentley 725 

Duncan  Chaplin  Lee  (resumed) 733 

William  Ludwig  Ullmann 761 

Robert  T.  Miller 778 

August  11.  1948: 
Testimony  of — • 

Henry  H.  Collins 8r;2 

Elizabeth  T.  Bentley 810 

August  12,  1948 : 
Testimony  of — 

Charles  Kramer 818 

Abraham  George  Silverman 835 

August  13,  1948  : 
Testimony  of — 

Lauchlln  Currie ." 851 

——Harry  Dexter  White 877 

Bela  Gold 906 

Sonia   Gold 912 

Frank  Coe 915 

Donald    Hiss 928 

August  16,  1948 : 

Testimony  of  Alfter  Hiss 9?15 

August  17.  1948: 

Testimony  of  Alger  Hiss  (Whittaker  Chambers) 975 

August  IS,  1948 : 
Testimony  of — 

Nelson    Frank 1003 

Isaac  Don  Levine 1005 

Mrs.  Alger  Hiss 1011 


111 


IV  CONTENTS 

August  20,  1948 : 

Testimony  of —  Page 

John  J.  Abt 1015 

Lee  Pressman 1022 

Nathan   Witt 10^>8 

August  24,  1948 : 
Testimony  of — 

Louis    Budenz 1035 

Martha  Pope 1013 

Joseph    Cherner 1052 

Samuel  A.  Mensh 1060 

Henry  J.  Gertler 1063 

W.   Marvin    Smith 1071 

August  25,  1948 : 
Testimony  of — 

Alger    Hiss 1076 

Whittaker   Chambers 1078 

Louis   J.   Russell 1111 

Alger  Hiss    (resumed) 1115 

Alger  Hiss   (resumed) 1118 

WJ'ittaker  Chambers    (resumed) 1176 

August  26,  1948 : 

Testimony  of  William  Rosen 1207 

August  27,  1948 : 
Testimonv  of — 

Leon    Cherner 1223 

Henry   Cherner 1227 

Flovd  Rhoda  Brewer 1229 

Samuel    Bialek 1232 

Robert    Bialek 1240 

Whittaker  Chambers 1255 

August  30,  1948: 
Testimony  of — 

Alexander    Stevens     (real    name    Goldberger;    also    known    as 

J.    Peters) 1267 

Whittaker  Chambers 1271 

Alexander    Stevens     (real    name    Goldberger;    also    known    as 

J.  Peters)   (resumed) 1271 

Whittaker   Chambers    (resumed) 1278 

Adolf  A.  Berle,  Jr 1291 

September  8,  1948 : 
Testimony  of — ■ 

Mrs.  Addie  Rosen 1301 

Louis   Rosenberg ^^^"l 

Irvin  Augustus  Farrell 1316 

Henrv  Cherner 1319 

September  9,  1948 : 
Testimony  of — 

William    Rosen 1329 

Maurice  Louis  Braverman 1342 

Index 1363 


HEAEINGS  RECTAEDmrT  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  IN 
THE  UNITED  STATES  GOVERNMENT 


SATURDAY,   JULY   31,    1948 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 

Committee  on  Un-American  Activities, 

Washington^  D.  C. 

The  committee  met.  pursuant  to  call,  at  10 :  J:5  a.  m.,  in  the  commit- 
tee room  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  Hon.  J.  Parnell 
Thomas  (chairman)  presiding. 

Committee  members  present :  Representatives  J.  Parnell  Thomas 
(chairman).  Richard  ]M.  Xixon,  John  McDowell,  Karl  E.  Mundt,  John 
E.  Rankin.  J.  Hardin  Peterson,  and  F.  Edward  Hebert. 

Staff  members  present:  Robert  E.  Stripling,  chief  investigator; 
Louis  Russell.  William  A^Hieeler,  Donald  T.  Appell,  and  Robert  Gaston, 
investigators;  Benjamin  Mandel,  director  of  research ;  and  A.  S.  Poore, 
editor,  for  the  committee. 

The  Chairman.  The  meeting  will  come  to  order. 

The  record  will  show  that  those  present  are  Mr.  Mundt,  Mr.  Mc- 
Dowell, Mr.  Xixon,  Mr.  Rankin,  Mr.  Peterson,  Mr.  Hebert,  and  Mr. 
Thomas,  and  a  quorum  is  present. 

Mr.  Stripling,  the  first  witness. 

Mr.  Stripling.  The  first  witness,  Mr.  Chairman,  will  be  Miss  Eliza- 
beth T.  Bentley. 

Miss  Bentley,  will  you  stand  and  be  sworn? 

The  Chairman.  Miss  Bentley,  please  stand  and  raise  your  right 
hand. 

Do  3'ou  solemnly  swear  that  the  testimony  you  are  about  to  give  will 
be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you 
God  ( 

Miss  Bentley.  I  do. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Stripling,  before  you  start  asking  questions, 
the  Chair  would  like  to  make  a  short  statement. 

Over  a  year  ago  this  committee  started  to  investigate  espionage  in 
the  Government.  We  have  had  many  witnesses  in  executive  session,  all 
of  whom  testified  on  this  subject. 

The  testimony  received  by  us  confirms  in  great  detail  the  conclusions 
drawn  by  your  investigative  staff,  and  confirms  the  fact  that  there  is  a 
tremendous  need  for  such  an  investigation  and  exposure  and  a  convic- 
tion in  many  cases  in  this  country. 

We  regret  that  the  matter  has  not  been  prosecuted  long  before  this. 
We  believe  that  the  matter  should  be  prosecuted  without  further  delay, 
and  the  committee  recommends  that  a  special  grand  jury  be  convened 
in  Washington,  D.  C..  in  order  to  give  special  attention  to  the  matter 
of  espionage  in  the  Government,  and  to  bring  the  matter  to  an  early 
conclusion. 

501 


502  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Rankin.  Let  me  say  at  this  point  that  this  committee  exposed 
years  ago  those  Communists  who  have  been  indicted  in  New  York  and 
showed  by  their  own  testimony  that  they  were  members  of  the  Com- 
munist Party,  which  was  dominated  by  the  Communist  International, 
and  dedicated  to  the  overthrow  of  this  Government, 

That  has  been  known  to  President  Truman  and  Governor  Dewey  of 
New  York  all  this  time.  It  is  about  time  that  they  got  behind  this 
committee  and  helped  to  clean  this  proposition  up  and  drive  these  rats 
from  the  Federal,  the  State,  and  the  municipal  pay  rolls. 

So  I  agree  with  the  chairman  that  these  prosecutions  should  be 
speeded  up  as  much  as  possible  in  order  that  we  may  weed  out  those 
enemies  within  our  gates  here  and  in  New  York  and  everywhere  else 
who  are  plotting  constantly  for  the  overthrow  of  this  Government. 
That  includes  the  members  of  the  New  York  council  as  William  Z. 
Foster,  and  everyone  else  who  has  joined  in  this  international  move- 
ment to  wreck  this  Government,  I  think  the  grand  jury  should  be 
convened  at  once. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  would  like  to  have  included  in  the  record  this  state- 
ment: That  the  evidence  which  is  before  the  grand  jury  in  New 
York  and  the  recent  disclosures  it  has  made  and  findings  being  made 
oil  the  other  side  of  the  Capitol  in  connection  with  espionage  in  Gov- 
ernment and  the  sale  of  war  materials  to  Kussia,  and  tlie  information 
we  are  going  to  get  this  morning  indicate  that  the  provision  of  the 
so-called  Mundt-Nixon  bill,  reported  unanimously  by  this  committee, 
passed  by  the  House  by  319  to  56  and  now  before  the  Senate,  may  have 
to  be  revised  in  the  nature  of  strengthening  those  provisions  instead 
of  weakening  them  in  order  to  make  them  fully  effective. 

It  is  entirely  jiossible  that  the  Eighty-first  Congress  will  pass  a 
version  of  this  bill  which  is  much  more  stringent  and  which  is 
strengthened  considerably  even  over  that  portion  which  has  already 
passed  the  House,  and  that  some  of  the  "bleeding  hearts"  of  the  coun- 
try refer  to  as  having  been  too  drastic  a  measure. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Mr.  Chairman,  do  I  understand  from  your  opening 
statement  that  you  will  use  this  testimony  today  as  the  basis  of  a 
formal  presentation  to  the  United  States  attorney  in  the  District  of 
Columbia  to  request  him  to  convene  a  special  grand  jury? 

The  Chairman.  That  is  correct.  This  testimony  today  and  other 
testimony  we  have  received  from  other  witnesses. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Coming  from  this  committee  the  United  States  attorney 
will  be  formally  requested  to  convene  a  special  grand  jury  to  investi- 
gate the  matter  of  communism  in  the  Government. 

The  Chairman.  That  is  correct.  Does  any  other  member  have  any- 
thing they  would  like  to  say? 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  think  in  connection  with  that  request,  Mr.  Chairman, 
we  should  also  request  the  Attorney  General  to  consummate  these 
hearings  being  lielcl  in  New  York  and  have  the  proper  indictments  at 
this  time,  because  there  is  a  verv  obvious  effort  to  delay  and  slow 
down  the  findings  of  that  New  York  case  until  after  November. 

The  Chairman.  I  tliink,  Mr.  Mundt,  that  is  one  of  the  main  rea- 
sons— I  don't  say  after  November — but  one  of  the  main  reasons  why 
we  want  a  new  grand  jury  convened  in  the  District  of  Columbia  is 
because  nothing  has  been  handed  down  by  the  grand  jury  up  in  New 
York. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  503 

« 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  don't  mean  a  grand  jury,  but  you  mean  a  special 
blue-ribbon  grand  jury. 

The  Chairman.  Special  blue-ribbon  grand  jury. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  will  devote  its  efforts  entirely  to  this  matter. 

Tlie  Chairman.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Mr.  Chairman,  in  that  connection  let  me  make  this 
inquiry.  The  gentleman  from  Louisiana  says  investigate  the  Com- 
munists connected  with  the  Federal  Government.  Some  of  these  Com- 
munists that  have  been  indicted  are  connected  with  the  State  govern- 
ments, or  the  city  government  in  New  York,  and  if  they  are  on  any 
pay  roll  of  the  Federal  Government,  State  government,  or  city  govern- 
ment, or  county  government  and  plotting  the  overthrow  of  this  Gov- 
ernment, they  ought  to  be  investigated  by  this  grand  jury. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Of  course,  that  statement  is  accepted  because  the  Dis- 
trict of  Columbia  is  a  Federal  Government. 

The  Chairman.  Well,  gentlemen,  we  have  a  witness  here  and  we  had 
better  start. 

Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Very  well. 

TESTIMONY  OF  ELIZABETH  TERRILL  BENTLEY 

Mr.  Stripling.  Miss  Bentley,  you  are  here  in  response  to  a  subpena 
which  was  served  upon  you  on  July  23  in  the  St.  George  Hotel  by  Mr. 
Donald  T.  Appell ;  is  that  correct  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripling.  To  appear  before  the  committee  last  Wednesday ;  is 
that  correct  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Tliat  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripling.  At  your  request 

The  Chairman  (interposing).  The  Chair  would  like  to  say  that  we 
are  going  to  finish  this  at  this  session  if  we  have  to  stay  here  all  day 
and  all  night  and  all  day  tomorrow.    Go  ahead. 

Mr.  Stripling.  At  your  request  the  subpena  was  continued  until 
today;  is  that  correct? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  are  here  before  the  committee  in  response  to 
that  subpena  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct ;  yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  you  please  state  your  full  name? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  Elizabeth  Terrill  Bentley. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Wliat  is  your  present  address  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  My  present  address  is  the  Hotel  St.  George  in 
Brooklyn. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  and  where  were  you  born  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  was  born  in  New  Milford,  Conn.,  1908. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Can  you  give  the  committee  a  resume  of  your  educa- 
tional and  occupational  background? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Don't  go  into  too  much  detail. 

Miss  Bentley.  I  graduated  from  high  school  and  then  from  Vassar 
College.     I  have  an  A.  B.  from  Vassar  College. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Wliat  year  did  you  graduate  from  Vassar? 


504  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Miss  Bentley.  1930.  I  have  a  master's  from  Columbia  University 
in  1935.  I  had  a  year's  study  at  the  University  of  Florence  in  Italy, 
and  a  sunnner's  study  at  the  University  of  Perugia  in  Italy.  I  think 
that  completes  the  educational  qualifications. 

I  taught  2  years  in  the  Foxcroft  School  in  Middleburg,  Va. 

Positions  which  I  held  in  the  business  world  were  secretary  in 
import-export  firms,  publicity  firms,  translating.  I  was  vice  president 
of  United  States  Service  and  Shipping  for  6  years.  For  the  last  year 
I  was  secretary  in  an  import  house. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Have  you  ever  been  out  of  the  United  States? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes.     I  have  been  out  of  the  United  States. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  countries  did  you  travel  to  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  have  been  in  England,  Belgium,  France,  Switzer- 
land, Germany,  Austria,  Italy,  one  day  in  Algiers. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  travel  in  Europe? 

Miss  Bentley.  The  summer  after  I  graduated  from  Vassar  I  went 
on  a  guided  musical  tour.  That  was  the  one  that  took  me  to  most  of 
the  countries.  Then  in  1931, 1  think  it  was,  I  studied  in  Perugia.  In 
the  year  1933-34  I  was  in  Florence. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Miss  Bentley,  were  you  ever  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  of  the  United  States  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  I  was. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  join? 

Miss  Bentley.  March  1935. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Who  recruited  you  into  the  Communist  Party? 

Miss  Bentley.  The  two  people  who  signed  my  membership  card 
were  Mrs.  Lee  Fuhr  and  Dr.  James  P.  Mendenhall. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  you  please  spell  Mrs.  Fuhr's  name? 

Miss  Bentley.  F-u-h-r. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  you  identify  Mrs.  Fuhr? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  do  so? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  don't  know  where  she  is  just  now,  but  she  was  a 
nurse  and,  as  I  understand  it,  the  first  American  nurse  who  went  to 
Spain  during  the  Spanish  civil  war.  I  have  lost  track  of  her  for  many 
years  and  don't  know  exactly  where  she  is  now. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Could  you  identify  Dr.  James  Mendenhall  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes.  At  that  time  he  was  a  professor  in  the  Lincoln 
School,  which  is  a  part  of  Teachers  College,  Columbia.  Since  then  I 
believe  he  went  into  the  OPA,  but  I  have  also  lost  track  of  him 
recently. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  tell  the  committee  the  circumstances 
under  which  you  were  recruited  into  the  party? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes.  I  had  come  back  from  a  year  in  Italy  quite 
upset  about  Fascist  conditions  there.  On  my  return  I  met  a  number 
of  Communists  of  whom  those  two  are  a  part,  and  they  got  me  into 
the  American  League  Against  War  and  Fascism,  which  was  interested 
in  my  impressions  of  Italy. 

After  that  they  gradually  got  me  into  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Were  you  active  in  the  Communist  Party  or  were 
you  a  rather  passive  member? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  would  say  just  about  medium;  not  too  active, 
just  an  average  run-of-the-mill  member. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  505 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  your  activity  increase  at  any  particular  period? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  but  not  open  party  activities,  if  that  is  what 
you  mean. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Miss  Bentley,  are  you  acquainted  with  an  individual 
or  were  j^ou  acquainted  with  an  individual  named  Jacob  Golos  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  I  was. 

Mr.  Stripling.  AVhen  did  you  first  meet  Jacob  Golos  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  In  October  1938. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  give  us  the  circumstances  under  which 
you  met  him,  please? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes.  I  think  about  3  or  4  months  before  I  met 
him  I  had,  through  Columbia  University,  obtained  a  position  with 
the  Italian  Library  of  Information,  which  I  had  discovered  to  be  a  part 
of  the  Italian  Government  Propaganda  Ministry.  I  had  discovered 
they  were  circulating  Fascist  propaganda,  and  I  had  gone  to  Com- 
munist Party  headquarters  and  requested  someone  who  could  use  this 
information  to  be  distributed  to  anti-Fascist  organizations  for  their 
use. 

I  was  then  introduced  to  Mr.  Jacob  Golos. 

]Mr.  Stripling.  At  that  time  what  was  Mr.  Golos'  occupation? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  didn't  know  until  a  year  after  I  met  him,  but 
actually  he  was  at  that  time  and  up  until  his  death,  president  of  World 
Tourists,  Inc. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  you  describe  briefly  the  type  of  organization 
World  Tourists  was  ?    What  did  it  do  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  My  understanding  is  it  was  set  up  in  1927  with  funds 
supplied  by  the  Communist  Party  as  a  travel  agency,  and  that  Mr. 
Golos  came  into  the  organization  in  the  early  thirties,  when  it  was 
financially  on  the  rocks,  took  it  over,  made  its  prime  purpose  sending 
individuals  and  tourists  to  Russia,  and  made  quite  a  bit  of  money  dur- 
ing those  boom  travel  years. 

Then  in  tlie  late  thirties,  when  travel  fell  off,  they  got  a  concession 
from  the  American  office  of  Intourist,  which  is  the  Soviet  agency  in 
charge  of  parcels  and  packages  going  to  the  U.  S.  S.  R.,  and  their  main 
business  became  sending  packages  to  individuals  in  Russia. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  connection  with  World  Tourists,  Miss  Bentley, 
did  you  ever  know  a  person  by  the  name  of  Gerhart  Eisler  ?  Did  you 
ever  meet  him? 

Miss  Bentley.  No  ;  I  didn't. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  know  of  anyone  by  the  name  of  Samuel 
Liptzen  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  mention  that,  Mr.  Chairman,  because  in  the  hear- 
ing before  this  committee  on  Gerhert  Eisler  it  was  brought  out  that 
Mr.  Eisler  traveled  to  the  Soviet  Union  under  a  passport  in  the  name 
of  Samuel  Liptzen.  He  carried  with  him  a  letter  signed  by  Jacob 
Golos  which  he  presented  to  a  Soviet  agent  in  Paris,  which  arranged 
for  him  to  go  to  the  Soviet  L^nion.  The  passport  which  he  obtained 
under  the  name  of  Samuel  Liptzen  did  not  indicate  that  he  intended 
to  go  to  the  Soviet  Union. 

I  have  the  letter  here  and  would  like  to  read  it  into  tlie  record  at  this 
point  in  order  to  identify  Mr.  Golos  and  World  Tourists. 

The  Chairman.  Without  objection,  it  is  so  ordered. 


506  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  The  letter  is  dated  June  17,  1935,  addressed  to  In- 
tourist,  Inc.,  Paris,  France.    It  reads : 

Deak  Mr.  Toloteav:  This  will  introduce  to  you  Mr.  Samuel  Liptzen,  a  good 
friend  of  mine,  who  will  ask  you  to  arrange  a  trip  for  him  to  the  Soviet  Union 
via  the  Soviet  steamer  from  Dunkirk,  France,  to  Leningrad.  Will  you  kindly  use 
your  influence  to  secure  the  best  accommodations  for  him  and  give  him  your  best 
attention. 

With  personal  best  wishes,  I  remain, 
Very  truly  yours, 

World  Tourists,  Inc., 
Jacob  Golos,  Manager. 

Mr.  Rankin.  That  is  the  same  Eisler  that  the  Negro  witness  Nowell 
testified  was  an  instructor  in  the  Communist  School  of  Revolution  in 
Moscow  when  he  was  over  there;  isn't  that  right  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes ;  that  is  the  same  one, 

Mr.  Rankin.  Where  is  this  Golos  now  ?  That  is  what  I  would  like 
to  know. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Golos  is  deceased. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Oh,  he  is  dead. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Miss  Bentley,  you  say  you  first  met  Mr.  Golos  in 
October  1938? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  your  acquaintance  with  him  in  connection  with 
the  activities  of  World  Tourists  increase  to  any  degree,  or  was  he  a 
casual  acquaintance  of  yours  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  At  first  he  was  only  a  person  to  whom  I  gave  infor- 
mation about  the  Italian  Library  of  Information  and  its  Fascist  activi- 
ties. After  I  left  there  in  the  spring  of  1939  I  continued  to  have  him 
as  my  contact.  I  suppose  now  because  he  thought  I  was  valuable 
material  that  could  be  used  in  the  future. 

I  did  odd  jobs  for  him  like  collecting  material  in  the  library  for  use 
in  what  he  said  were  articles  in  the  New  Masses,  or  receiving  mail  at 
my  address  for  him,  and  that  sort  of  thing. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  recall  whether  or  not  j'ou  ever  received  any 
mail  from  Mexico  addressed  to  Mr.  Golos  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Oh,  yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Addressed  to  you  but  to  be  delivered  to  Mr.  Golos? 

Miss  Bentley.  No.     Canada,  not  Mexico. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  any  of  that  mail  come  from  Fred  Rose  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  can't  state  of  my  own  knowledge,  Mr.  Stripling, 
because  I  didn't  look  inside  the  envelopes,  but  I  suspect  it  may  have 
been. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  recall  what  year  it  was  you  transmitted  mail 
from  Canada  to  Mr.  Golos? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes.  I  can  tell  you  almost  exactly.  It  was  1939, 
1940. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  Mr.  Golos  ever  ask  you  to  perform  any  special 
duties  for  him  in  connection  with  any  work  that  he  was  doing  for  the 
Communist  Party  in  behalf  of  the  Soviet  Union  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Later  on,  yes ;  but  do  you  mean  in  this  period  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Any  period. 

Miss  Bentley.  Later  on ;  yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  was  that? 

Miss  Bentley.  At  about  the  start  of  the  Russian-German  war  which 
would  be  around  June  or  July  of  1941. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  507 

]Mi'.  Stkiplix(J.  What  did  lie  ask  you  to  do? 

Miss  Bextley.  He  asked  me  to  take  charge  of  individuals  and 
groups.  This  was  a  gradual  process,  not  all  at  once.  It  was  to  take 
charge  of  individuals  and  groups  who  were  employed  in  the  United 
States  Government  and  in  positions  to  furn.ish  information. 

JNlr.  Striplixg.  What  kind  of  information? 

Miss  Bentley.  All  sorts  of  information — political,  military,  what- 
ever they  could  lay  their  hands  on. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Was  he  operating  or  had  he  set  up  a  so-called 
espionage  organization  to  obtain  information  from  Government  em- 
ployees and  Government  ofiicials  to  be  transmitted  to  the  Soviet  Union  ? 

j\Iiss  Bexteey.  I  think  that  he  set  it  up.  I  rather  doubt  that  he  had 
operated  it  before  that.     Of  course,  I  can't  state  definitely. 

Mr.  Stkiplix^g.  It  was  in  operation,  however,  when  you  knew  him  ? 

]\[iss  Bex^tley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Would  you  tell  the  committee  how  this  espionage 
organization  operated  and  3'our  participation  in  it? 

Miss  Bex'tley.  It  started  with  actual  Government  emploj'^ees  in 
about  July  1941.  when  he  told  me  that  he  had  received  from  Earl 
Browder  the  name  of  a  man  working  for  the  United  States  Govern- 
ment, who  was  interested  in  helping  in  getting  information  to  Russia 
and  who  could  organize  a  group  of  other  Government  employees  to 
help  in  this  work. 

Mr.  Rax^kix'.  What  kind  of  employees? 

Miss  Bex^tley.  Government  employees. 

Mr.  Striplix-^g.  Did  he  tell  you  the  name  of  the  individual? 

Miss  Bextley,  Yes. 

Mr.  Striplix'g.  Who  Avas  the  individual? 

Miss  Bex'tley.  N.  Gregory  Sih^ermaster. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Did  you  know  him  also  as  Nathan  Gregory  Silver- 
master?     Was  that  his  first  name? 

Miss  Bextley.  I  think  he  told  me  his  first  name  was  Nathan,  but 
he  had  never  used  it.     I  believe  that  is  it. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  In  what  agency  of  the  Government  was  Mr.  Silver- 
master  employed  at  that  time? 

Miss  Bextley.  He  was  with  the  Farm  Security  Administration  in 
the  Agriculture  Department,  and  then  in  1943,  briefly,  perhaps  6 
months  or  so,  he  was  in  the  BEW. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  The  Bureau  of  Economic  Warfare? 

Miss  Bextley.  Yes. 

iVIr.  Striplixg.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  have  INIr.  Silvermaster's  employ- 
ment history,  which  I  would  like  to  put  into  the  record  at  this  point. 
However,  I  do  not  want  to  interrupt  her  testimony  right  now. 

The  CiiAiRMAx.  May  I  ask  a  question  right  there  for  the  record? 

Was  Mr.  Silvermaster  ever  a  witness  before  this  committe  or  a 
subcommittee  of  this  committee  in  executive  session  ? 

INIr.  Striplix^g.  Mr.  Silvermaster — Do  you  mean  was  he  ever  a 
witness  before  this  committee? 

The  Chairmax.  In  executive  session. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Mr.  Silvermaster  testified  before  the  committee, 
Mr.  Chairman,  on  May  25  of  this  year.  If  you  would  like,  I  can  read 
his  own  testimon}^  as  to  his  employment  history  in  the  Government. 

The  Chairmax^.  Do  you  want  to  just  put  it  in  the  record? 


508  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  want  to  know  where  he  is  now. 

The  Chairman.  All  right,  put  it  in. 

Mr.  Kankin.  Read  it.     Is  he  on  the  Federal  pay  roll  now? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  have  been  told  he  is  out  of  the  Government.  I 
think  Mr.  Stripling  would  know  more  about  it  than  I. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Let's  bring  the  investigation  down  to  date. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Rankin,  he  resigned  last  year  when  his  salary 
was  cut  from  $10,000  a  year  to  $8,000. 

Mr.  Rankin.  He  resigned  what  position? 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  will  give  you  that.  iVt  the  time  he  resigned  he 
was  in  War  Assets. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  mean  he  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party 
at  that  time  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  An  agent  of  the  Conununist  International? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  I  think  you  would  call  it  that. 

Mr.  Rankin.  And  was  employed  by  the  War  Assets  Administration 
here  in  Washington  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  He  was  employed  by  the  War  Assets  Administration 
after  I  knew  him. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  am  talking  about  last  year,  within  the  last  year. 
As  I  understand  from  your  testimony,  this  man  was  on  the  Federal 
pay  roll,  was  employed  by  the  War  Assets  Administration  and  was 
a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  and  an  agent  of  the  Conununist 
International ;  is  that  correct  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  haven't  seen  him  since  the  end  of  September  1944. 
I  can  only  tell  you  what  he  was  up  to  that  date.  He  was,  during  the 
time  I  knew  him ;  yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  He  was  an  employee,  then,  of  the  War  Assets  Adminis- 
tration. 

Miss  Bentley.  Not  at  that  time;  no.  He  was  back  in  the  Agri- 
culture Department  when  I  said  good-by  to  him. 

Mr.  Rankin.  But  he  was  in  the  employ  of  the  Federal  Government? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct;  yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  He  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party,  you  say  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Rankin.  And  an  agent  of  the  Communist  International  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Probably  an  agent  of  the  NKVD  would  be  more 
correct. 

Mr.  Rankin.  That  is  the  Russian  Communist  secret  police? 

Miss  Bentley.  Tliat  is  correct. 

Mr.  Rankin.  And  the  Communists  are  dedicated  to  the  overthrow 
of  this  Government;  is  that  right? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  right. 

The  Chairman.  Will  you  read  that,  please? 

Mr.  Stripling.  This  is  in  regard  to  the  question  asked  about  his  em- 
ployment in  the  Government. 

He  was  first  employed  in  the  California  State  Relief  Administra- 
tion.   Then,  he  testified  that  in  August  of  1935  : 

I  was  offered  a  position  in  Wasliinuton  with  the  Resettlement  Administration. 
I  was  with  the  Resettlement  Adnnnistration  from  19.35  on.  In  1937,  I  believe,  I 
left  Resettlement  to  accept  a  position  with  tiie  United  States  Maritime  Uabor 
Board,  and  then  in  1938  I  went  back  to  Resettlement,  which  was  then  the  Farm 
Security  Administration,  where  I  headed  the  Labor  Division.    Then,  I  believe  it 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  509 

was  June  of  1942  or  1943,  I  transferred  to  the  Office  of  Surplus  Property  of  the 
Procurement  Division,  and  from  there,  by  administrative  changes,  to  the  Com- 
merce Department  Office  of  Surplus  Property,  and  from  there  by  reorganization 
to  RFC. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  say  "by  reorganization"? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Yes.  Surplus  Property  Administration  has  gone  through  a 
series  of  administrative  evolutions,  you  might  .say,  and  the  Office  of  Surplus 
Property  of  Procurement  was  moved  from  Procurement.  It  had  handled  con- 
sumer goods.  The  consumer  goods  was  in  one  agency  and  capital  and  producer 
goods  was  in  another  agency.  I  was  with  the  consumer  goods  in  Procurement, 
Treasury  Procurement,  in  the  Office  of  Procurement,  and  then  the  Commerce  De- 
partment, and  then  RFC,  and  finally  War  Assets,  which  integrated  all  of  the 
units  under  one  administration. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Did  the  investigator  ask  him  at  that  time  if  he  was 
a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes;  he  was  asked  that  question. 

Mr.  Rankin.  What  did  he  sa}'? 

Mr.  Stripling.  He  refused  to  answer  that  question,  Mr.  Rankin,  on 
the  grounds  that  he  might  incriminate  himself. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Do  you  know  where  Mr.  Silvermaster  is  employed  now? 

]Mr.  Stripling.  He  is  not  employed  in  the  Government.  He  is  under 
subpena  of  this  committee,  and  I  think  the  committee  will  have  him 
here. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Has  he  any  connection  with  the  United  Nations? 

]Mr.  Stripling.  No,  sir. 

Now,  Miss  Bentley,  will  you  continue  with  your  testimony? 

We  were  at  the  point  where  Mr.  Golos  had  told  you  there  was  an 
individual  in  the  Federal  Government  who  was  to  furnish  information 
to  him. 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Were  there  other  people  in  the  Government  in  this 
group  that  Mr.  Golos  referred  to  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  This  was  the  first  group  of  Government  employees, 
the  first  Government  employees  which  Mr.  Golos  had  taken  on,  and 
which  I,  in  the  position  of  courier 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  were  a  courier  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  v.as  the  person  who  made  trips  to  Washington  and 
picked  up  the  material  and  brought  it  back  to  Mr.  Golos. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  often  did  you  come  to  Washington  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  About  every  2  weeks. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Can  you  name  any  other  individuals  that  you  know 
of  your  own  knowledge  were  members  of  this  group,  this  espionage 
group  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes.  Mrs.  Silvermaster  aided  in  it,  although  she 
gave  no  information.  She  helped  with  the  photography  end  of  it. 
William  Ludwig  Ullmann. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  he  in  the  Air  Corps  at  that  time  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  The  first  time  I  knew  Lud  he  was  in  the  Treasury 
Department. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  what  position  he  held  in  the  Treasury 
Department  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  I  don't. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  whether  he  was  ever  in  the  Air  Corps 
or  not  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  he  was. 


510  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  During  tlie  war? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  he  was  stationed  in  the  Pentagon  most  of  the 
time. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Is  he  a  Communist? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Could  you  name  any  other  members  of  the  group 
who  were  employed  in  the  Government  ? 

(No  response.) 

Mr.  Rankin.  May  I  ask  where  this  man  Ulhnann  is  now  ? 

Is  he  still  with  us  ? 

Is  he  still  operating  in  the  Pentagon  ? 

_Mr.  Stripling.  From  the  investigators  who  have  been  working  on 
his  case,  I  learn  that  he  is  no  longer  in  the  Treasury  Department. 

May  I  ask  you,  Miss  Bentley,  was  one  Solomon  Adler  a  member  of 
this  group? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  he  was. 

]\Ir.  Stripling.  Was  he  a  rather  active  participant? 

Miss  Bentley.  Rather  remotely,  Mr.  Sti'ipling,  because  at  the  time 
I  had  charge  of  that  group  he  was  in  China. 

Mr,  Rankin.  Mr.  Stripling 

The  Chairman.  We  had  better  continue. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  want  to  find  out  about  this. 

The  Chairman.  We  had  better  let  the  chief  investigator  ask  her 
any  questions,  and  then  we  can  ask  questions  later,  because  we  have 
got  a  long  way  to  go. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Miss  Bentley,  did  you  collect  the  Communist  Party 
dues  for  Mr.  Adler  and  turn  them  over  to  Mr.  Silvermaster?  Do 
you  recall  doing  that? 

Miss  Bentley.  Mr.  Silvermaster  gave  me  the  dues  for  his  complete 
group  and  I  take  it  for  granted  those  included  Mr,  Adler,  Since  he 
was  in  China,  I  am  not  too  sure  about  it, 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  meet  Mr.  Adler  yourself? 

Miss  Bentley,  No  ;  I  never  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  understand  that  he  at  any  time  worked  with 
this  group  ? 

Miss  Bentley,  Yes ;  I  did  understand  that, 

Mr,  Stripling,  Do  you  know  where  Mr,  Adler  is  employed  at  the 
present  time  ? 

Miss  Bentley,  No;  I  am  afraid  I  do  not, 

Mr,  Stripling,  Mr,  Chairman,  according  to  our  investigation  Mr, 
Adler  is  presently  employed  by  the  United  States  Treasury  Depart- 
ment in  the  Office  of  International  Finance, 

Are  there  any  other  persons  who  were  employed  in  the  Government 
at  that  time  who  were  members  of  this  espionage  group? 

Miss  Bentley,  Yes,     William  Taylor, 

Mr,  Stripling,  Where  was  he  employed  ? 

Miss  Bentley,  William  was  in  the  Treasmy, 

Mr,  Stripling.  Do  you  know  what  position  he  held  in  the  Treasury? 

Miss  Bentley.  No";  I  don't.  He  had  a  number  of  positions  and 
he  was  also  sent  abroad  at  various  times,  I  believe  he  went  to  China ; 
I  believe  he  was  sent  to  Portugal  at  one  time. 

The  Chairman.  By  the  Ti-easury  De]iartment? 

Miss  Bentley.  By  the  Treasury;  yes. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  511 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Were  there  any  other  individuals  in  the  Treasury 
Department  who  were  working  M'ith  your  group  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  With  the  Silvermaster  group? 

Mr.  Strii'ling.  Yes. 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  Harry  Dexter  White. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  was  Mr.  White's  position  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  believe  he  was  Assistant  Secretary  of  the  Treas- 
ury. Is  that  correct,  or  do  you  call  him  an  Under  Secretary?  I  am 
not  sure. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Assistant  Secretary  of  the  Treasury 

The  Chairman.  The  witness  says  she  believes.  What  was  he  ?  We 
want  to  know. 

jNIr.  Stripling.  He  was  Assistant  Secretary  of  the  Treasury  and 
head  of  Monetary  Research,  as  I  recall. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Is  he  a  Communist  ? 

JNIiss  Bentley.  I  don't  know  whether  Mr.  White  was  a  card-carrying 
Communist  or  not. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  was  the  extent  of  his  cooperation  with  your 
group  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  He  gave  information  to  Mr.  Silvermaster  which  was 
relayed  on  to  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  At  this  junction,  give  us  the  mechanical  operations 
of  the  Silvermaster  group.  Before  you  do  that,  in  order  to  clarify  the 
expression  "Silvermaster  group,"  were  there  other  groups  operating 
within  the  Government  collecting  information  on  behalf  of  the  Soviet 
Union  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  had  one  other  group  that  I  handled,  and  I  had  every 
reason  to  believe  there  were  other  groups  also. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  was  the  other  group  that  you  handled  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  We  called  it  the  Perlo  group.  It  was  actually  an 
ex-Communist  Party  unit  that  I  believe  had  been  set  up  in  Washing- 
ton in  the  early  thirties,  and  I  gather,  from  what  the  members  of  tlie 
group  told  me,  that  they  had  been  in  a  minor  way  collecting  informa- 
tion for  some  years  but  not  in  an  organized  fashion. 

IVIr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  this  other  group  that  you  refer  to 
which  you  said  was  set  up  in  the  early  thirties — Vvas  that  the  group, 
or  did  you  ever  hear  it  was  the  group,  set  up  by  Hal  Ware  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  I  never  heard  of  that  angle  of  it  before. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  call  it  the  Perlo  group? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  call  it  the  Perlo  group  because  the  ostensible  leader 
of  it  was  Victor  Perlo. 

Mr.  Stripling.  AVhere  was  Mr.  Perlo  employed  at  that  time  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  In  the  WPB. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Could  you  tell  us  what  kind  of  position  he  held  in 
the  War  Production  Board  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  can't  tell  you  the  title  which  I  didn't  know,  but 
he  was  in  a  position  that  was  handling  aircraft  production  figures,  be- 
cause he  had  ready  access  to  those. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Did  he  supply  you  with  those  figures  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Were  any  Members  of  the  Congress,  House  or  Senate, 
in  that  group  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  I  am  sorry;  no. 


512  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  Miss  Bentley,  when  was  this  you  were  in  contact 
with  Victor  Perlo  when  he  was  in  the  War  Production  Board — '43  and 
'44? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  took  that  group  over  in  about,  I  think,  March  of 
1944. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  if  the  committee  desires,  I  shall  read 
into  the  record  the  employment  history  of  Mr.  Perlo. 

Tlie  Chairman.  Without  objection,  it  is  so  ordered. 

Mr.  Stripling.  All  right. 

The  Chairman.  The  committee  w^oulcl  like  to  have  the  employment 
record  of  each  one  of  these  read. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  shall  read  other  information  re- 
garding his  background,  which  has  been  obtained  by  the  investigation 
conducted  by  the  staff  of  this  committee : 

Victor  Perlo :  The  above-named  individual  was  born  on  May  15,  1912,  in  New 
York  City.  His  parents  were  both  born  in  Russia.  His  father's  name  was  Samuel 
and  his  mother's  name  was  Rachel.  Mr.  Perlo  attended  scliool  in  Flushing,  N.  Y. 
In  1931  he  received  an  A.  B.  degree  from  Columbia  University,  and  in  1932  he 
received  an  M.  A.  degree.  From  June  until  July  1930  Mr.  Perlo  was  employed 
as  a  bank  clerk  in  New  York  City.  In  1931  and  1932  he  was  employed  by  a  boys' 
camp  in  Massachusetts.  From  September  1933  until  June  1935  Mr.  Perlo  was 
employed  by  the  NRA.  From  June  1935  until  Octol)er  1937,  Mr.  Perlo  was  em- 
ployed by  the  Federal  Home  Loan  Bank  Board.  From  October  1937  until  Sep- 
tember 1939  Mr.  Perlo  was  associated  with  the  Brookings  Institution.  From 
September  1939  until  September  1940  Mr.  Perlo  was  employed  by  the  Depart- 
ment of  Commerce.  From  November  15,  1940,  until  February  17,  1943,  Mr.  Perlo 
was  employed  by  the  Advisory  Council  on  National  Defense  of  the  OPA.  From 
February  17,  1943,  until  May  1,  1945,  Mv.  Perlo  was  employed  by  the  War  Pro- 
duction Board.  From  May  1,  until  December  14,  1945,  Mr.  Perlo  was  employed 
by  the  Civilian  Production  Administration.  Beginning  December  14,  1945,  Mr. 
Perlo  was  employed  by  the  Treasury  Department,  Office  of  Monetary  Research, 
which  was  the  agency  Harry  Dexter  White  headed. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Do  you  know  where  he  is  now  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  We  do  not. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Was  he  a  Communist  all  during  that  time? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  would  rather  imagine  so,  Congressman,  from  what 
he  told  me  when  I  met  him  in  '44.  He  told  me  he  had  been  a  Com- 
munist over  10  years,  so  I  imagine  so. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  Victor  Perlo  turn  information  over  to  you? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  he  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Information  which  had  been  obtained  from  people 
who  were  employed  in  the  Government  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  either  he  or  members  of  his  group  turned  it 
over ;  yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Could  you  name  other  members  of  his  group  before 
we  go  on  with  the  Silvermaster  group  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes.    1  will  try  to  remember  them.  Allan  Rosenberg. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  where  he  was  employed  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  he  was  in  the  FEA. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  what  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  don't  know  what  those  initials  are. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  it  the  Board  of  Economic  Warfare? 

Miss  Bentley.  It  was  originally  BEW,  but  then  it  became  FEA, 
Foreign  Economic  Administration.  It  was  an  amalgamation,  I  under- 
stand, of  several  agencies. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Can  j^ou  name  any  other  member  of  the  group? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  513 

Miss  Bentlet.  Donald  Wheeler. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  that  Donald  Niven  Wheeler? 

Miss  Bentley,  I  don't  know  his  middle  name ;  I  am  sorry. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  it  Donald  or  David? 

Miss  Bentley.  Donald. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  where  he  was  employed  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  OSS. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Office  of  Strategic  Services? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Any  other  members  of  the  Perlo  group  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Charles  Kramer. 

INIr.  Stripling.  His  real  name  was  Charles  Krevitsky.  Did  you 
know  that  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  have  been  told  that ;  yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  was  he  employed  at  that  time  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  believe  at  the  time  I  first  met  him  he  was  in  between 
jobs.  Then  I  believe  he  went  with — is  it  Senator? — Kilgore.  I  am 
not  sure  whether  he  was  a  Congressman  or  Senator.  Later  he  went 
with  Senator  Pepper. 

The  Chairman.  Where  is  he  now? 

Mr.  jNIundt.  Is  that  Kramer  the  man  you  are  talking  about  now  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Is  Kramer  a  Communist  ? 

ISIiss  Bentley.  Oh,  yes;  of  long  standing,  according  to  the  story  he 
told  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  think  that  is  rather  certain,  Mr.  Chairman.  If  I 
may  read  from  the  testimony  which  we  took  from  him  on  July  2 — 
I  believe  Mr.  McDowell  took  the  testimony 

Mr.  Mundt.  I  would  like  to  have  that  testimony. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Kramer  first  gave  his  employment  record.  He 
said : 

My  last  Governmeut  employment  was  with  the  subcommittee  of  the  Com- 
mittee on  Education  and  Labor  of  the  Senate.  Prior  to  that  I  worked  for 
the  Office  of  Price  Administration,  and  prior  to  that  I  worked  for  the  National 
Labor  Relations  Board,  and  prior  to  that  for  the  United  Mine  Workers  of 
America ;  prior  to  that  for  another  subcommittee  of  the  United  State  Senate 
Committee  on  Education  and  Labor ;  prior  to  that  for  the  National  Youth  Admin- 
istration ;  prior  to  that  for  the  Agricultural  Adjustment  Administration  and 
prior  to  that  for  the  Institute  of  Social  and  Religious  Research ;  prior  to  that  for 
New  York  University. 

Mt,  Kramer,  when  asked  if  he  was  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party,  refused  to  answer  on  the  grounds  tliat  he  might  incriminate 
himself. 

Mr.  Mundt.  The  two  who  were  named  just  before  Kramer — you 
neglected  to  ask  if  they  were  Communists. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Allan  Rosenberg  and  Donald  Wlieeler. 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  they  were. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Both  of  them  were  Communists? 

Miss  Bentley.  They  were  both  Communists. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Can  you  name  any  other  members  of  the  Perlo 
group  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Edward  Fitzgerald. 

Mr.  Stripling,  Edward  J.  Fitzgerald? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  don't  know  his  middle  initial,  either. 

80408—48 2 


514  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

INIr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  where  lie  was  employed  ? 

Miss  BENTI.EY.    WPB. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  he  a  member  of  the  Communist  Part}^  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Are  there  aiij-  other  members  of  the  Perlo  group  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes.  I  don't  recall  his  first  name,  because  I  only 
met  him  once — Magcloff. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Harry  Magdoff  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct ;  3'es. 

Mr.  Mdndt.  Where  was  he  employed  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  At  the  time  I  first  met  him  he  had  just  returned  from 
the  Mayo  Clinic  in  Kochester  after  a  serious  operation,  and  I  believe 
he  didn't  take  any  job  for  a  bit,  and  then  he  went  into  the  Commerce 
Department. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  have  his  employment  record. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Was  that  during  the  time  Henry  Wallace  was  head 
of  the  Commerce  Department  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  think  probably  part  of  the  time;  yes.  I  am  not 
too  clear  on  when  Mr.  Wallace  went  in  there. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Do  you  know  if  this  man  is  now  employed  in  the 
United  States  Government  service? 

Miss  Bentley.  No  ;  I  wouldn't  know.  Most  of  these  people  I  have 
completely  lost  track  of,  but  I  imagine  the  committee  probably  knows 
where  they  are. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Stripling,  are  you  going  to  develop  what  kind 
of  information  was  turned  over  by  these  groups  to  this  witness? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes,  Mr.  Chairman;  but  I  want  first  to  identify 
the  people  that  comprised  these  groups.  Then  we  will  move  from 
that  to  the  type  of  information  turned  over;  what  the  witness  did 
with  the  information  after  it  was  turned  over. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Mr.  Stripling,  will  you  be  able  to  show  that  these 
groups  are  still  operative  ^ 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  would  ratlier  not  say  at  this  time,  Mr.  Eankin. 
I  would  like  to  complete  this  testimony. 

Mr,  Rankin.  That  is  what  I  am  mostly  interested  in. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  think  we  should  take  it  up  in  chronological  order 
and  not  jump  to  conclusions. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  do  3^011  want  the  employment  record 
of  Mr.  Magdoff? 

The  Chairman.  Yes, 

Mr,  Stripling,  April  1936 — rather,  from  October  11,  1931,  until 
May  31,  1935,  Magdoff  was  employed  by  the  Silk  Textile  Code  Au- 
thority, NRA,  New  York  City.  In  the  year  1935  he  is  reported  to 
have  been  ill.  From  April  1936  until  May  1940  Magdoff  was  em- 
ployed by  WPA  as  a  statistician  and  on  the  national  research  project. 
From  October  1,  1940,  until  August  15,  1941,  he  was  employed  in  the 
Statistical  Division  of  the  War  Production  Board  and  Office  of  Emer- 
gency Management.  August  16,  1941,  until  May  17,  1943,  he  was 
employed  by  the  War  Production  Board  in  its  Bureau  of  Research 
and  Statistics.  From  May  18,  1943,  until  July  3,  1944,  he  was  em- 
ployed by  the  Tools  Division  of  War  Production  Board.  July  4, 
1944,  to  March  1946  he  was  employed  in  the  District  of  Columbia 
by  the  Bureau  of  Foreign  and  Domestic  Commerce.     Magdoff  was  em- 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  515 

ployed  by  the  Office  of  the  Secretary  of  Commerce  about  April  1946 
uiit'il  December  17,  1946.  Since  the  latter  date  he  has  been  employed 
by  the  New  Comicil  of  American  Business  in  New  York  City. 

Did  you  ever  collect  any  dues  from  Mr.  Magdoff  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  The  dues  were  brought  to  me  by  whicliever  member 
of  the  group  came  to  New  York  City,  and  Mr.  Magdoff's  dues  were 
among  them;  yes. 

Mr.  SxRiPLmG.  What  did  you  do  with  his  dues  when  they  were 
turned  over  to  you? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  turned  them  over  to  Mr.  Golos  during  his  life- 
time. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Now,  have  you  named  all  the  participants  in  the 
Perlo  espionage  gi'oup? 

Miss  Bentley.  No.     There  was  Harold  Glasser,  of  the  Treasury. 

Mr.  Stripling.  All  right. 

Mr.  Muxdt.  Is  Harold  Glasser  a  Communist? 

]\Iiss  Bextley.  Yes;  they  all  were.  This  was  an  ex-Communist 
Party  unit,  which  means  automatically  they  were  Communists. 

Mr.  MrxDT.  '"Ex" — that  means  previous. 

Miss  Bextley.  It  means  before  that  they  had  been  tied  up  only,  as 
I  understand  it,  with  the  Communist  Party,  but  then  they  were  turned 
over  to  me.     Maybe  I  am  using  the  wrong  phraseology. 

Mr.  Muxdt.  Thank  you. 

Mv.  Striplixg.  Would  you  like  his  employment  record  ? 

The  Chairman.  Yes. 

Mr.  Strip^^ixg.  This  is  Harold  Glasser.  This  individual  was  born 
November  23,  1905,  Chicago,  111.  His  parents  were  Myra  Glasser 
and  Rachel  Olswang.     Both  of  them  were  born  in  Russia. 

F]-om  ld'2'2  until  1928  Glasser  studied  at  the  University  of  Chicago. 
From  1929  until  1930  Glasser  studied  at  Harvard  University.  From 
1930  to  1931  he  studied  at  the  University  of  Chicago.  During  part 
of  1931  until  1932  Glasser  was  attached  to  the  Brookings  Institution 
in  AVashington.  D.  C.  From  1932  until  1933  Glasser  was  attached 
to  the  Labor  Bureau  of  the  Midwest  in  Chicago.  From  1933  until 
1935  Glasser  taught  at  the  Peoples  Junior  College  in  Chicago.  On 
August  16,  1935,  Glasser  became  employed  bv  the  WPA.  This  em- 
ployment lasted  until  April  16,  1936.  On  May  i,  1936,  Glasser  be- 
came an  employee  of  the  Department  of  Agriculture,  Minneapolis, 
Minn.  November  21,  1936,  Glasser's  employment  with  the  Depart- 
ment of  Agriculture  ceased,  and  he  became  an  employee  of  the  Treas- 
ury Department  in  Washington.  He  was  attached  to  the  Division 
of  Monetary  Research.  On  June  15,  1940,  Glasser  was  loaned  by  the 
Treasury  Department  to  the  Government  of  Ecuador.  He  served  in 
this  capacity  until  May  1942,  at  which  time  he  returned  to  the  Treas- 
ury Department.  On  November  30,  1942,  Glasser  was  loaned  to  the 
War  Production  Board,  where  he  remained  until  January  10,  1943. 
From  February  1943  until  September  1943  Glasser  was  an  adviser  on 
the  North  African  Affairs  Committee  at  Algiers,  North  Africa. 

Are  there  any  other  members  of  the  Perlo  group  that  you  have  not 
named.  ^liss  Bentley? 

Miss  Bextley.  There  is  just  one  more  who  didn't  give  any  infor- 
mation, but  I  know  he  belonged  to  the  group,  and  that  is  Lischinsky — 
Sol  Lis-hinskv.     He  was  with  UNRRA. 


516  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  was  his  first  name  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Sol.     I  suppose  it  would  be  Solomon. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  name  everyone  in  the  Silvermaster  group  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  continue  to  name  them? 

Mr.  Kankin.  Let's  get  something  on  this  last  man  she  named.  Let's 
get  the  facts  on  him. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Rankin,  we  don't  have  any  information  on  this 
gentleman  ourselves. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Maybe  she  has  some. 

Miss  Bentley.  I  have  very  little.  I  did  not  meet  him  personally. 
I  just  know  what  they  told  me  about  him  and  he  never  produced  any 
information,  so  we  didn't  consider  him  too  valuable. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  don't  know  where  he  is  now  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No  ;  I  know  where  very  few  of  these  people  are  right 
now. 

The  Cpiairman.   Will  the  chief  investigator  get  this  information? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes. 

Mr.  Peterson.  I  would  like  to  ask  a  question.  We  want  to  be  sure 
we  are  not  unfair  to  anyone. 

With  reference  to  the  employment  of  Kramer,  I  believe  the  state- 
ment was  made  that  he  had  been  employed  by  Senator  Kilgore  and 
Senator  Pepper.  I  believe  the  employment  record  did  not  refer  to 
that  but  referred  to  a  committee.  Do  you  know  whether  they  were 
employed  individually  by  the  Senators  or  by  the  committee  of  which 
they  were  members  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  don't  know  that.  I  know  he  simply  referred  to 
it  in  that  way,  and  I  don't  know  exactly  whether  he  was  an  employee 
of  the  Senators  personally  or  of  the  committee. 

Mr.  Peterson.  You  don't  know  of  your  own  knowledge  that  he 
was  employed  by  either  of  the  Senators  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No. 

Mr.  McDowell.  If  I  recollect,  Mr.  Peterson,  he  testified  he  worked 
in  Senator  Pepper's  office. 

Mr.  Peterson.  I  didn't  hear  that  testimony  at  the  time,  but  I  notice 
in  that  he  referred  to  committee  employment. 

Mr.  Rankin.  When  was  that  testimony  taken? 

Mr.  McDowell.  While  you  were  out. 

Mr.  Rankin.  This  morning? 

Mr.  McDowell.  Yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  didn't  hear  it. 

Mr.  Stripling.  According  to  our  investigation,  Mr.  Kramer  actually 
worked  in  Senator  Pepper's  office  while  he  was  on  the  pay  roll  of  the 
Subcommittee  on  Education  and  Labor.  I  think  you  will  find  that 
he  was  quite  active. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Didn't  he  work  in  some  other  Senators'  offices  and 
wasn't  he  insti'umental  in  trumping  up  the  charges  for  the  persecution 
of  Senator  Bilbo? 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  don't  know  a  thing  about  that,  Mr.  Rankin. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  think  we  should  have  some  information  on  that  point. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  517 

The  CHAiR:\rAX.  Mr,  Striplin<>:.  you  may  proceed. 

Mr.  STKiriAXG.  Miss  Bentley.  will  you  now  go  back  to  the  Silver- 
master  group  and  name  any  individual  who  was  a  part  of  that  group 
that  has  not  already  been  previously  mentioned? 

IMiss  Bextley.  George  Silverman. 

Mr.  Stripling,  George  Silverman? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  was  he  employed? 

Miss  Bentley.  Originally  in,  I  think  you  call  it,  the  Railroad  Re- 
tirement Board. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes, 

Miss  Bentley,  And  when  the  war  came  he  was  given  a  quite  im- 
portant post  with  the  Air  Corps  as  a  civilian  in  The  Pentagon.  I  be- 
lieve he  was  offered  a  colonelcy,  but  he  turned  it  down  and  remained  a 
civilian  employee  there. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  Silverman  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling,  You  collected  dues  from  him? 

]Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

]Mr,  Stripling.  Did  he  furnish  information  to  your  group? 

Miss  Bentley.  Oh,  quite  prolific  information. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Before  we  go  on  with  what  was  furnished,  would 
you  tell  the  committee  whether  or  not  there  is  anyone  else  in  this  group 
that  you  have  not  named  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Frank  Coe. 

Mr.  Stripling,  Where  was  he  employed? 

Miss  Bentley.  In  the  Treasury. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  Icnow  what  his  position  was  ? 

]\Iiss  Bentley.  No;  I  am  sorry.  All  these  people  Mr.  Silvermaster 
took  care  of,  and  I  simply  knew  they  had  important  jobs  in  the 
Treasury,  but  I  couldn't  tell  you  what  it  was. 

]\Ir.  Stripling.  He  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party,  accord- 
ing to  j^our  information? 

Miss  Bentley.  According  to  my  understanding;  yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  x4.nyone  else? 

Miss  Bentley.  William  Gold. 

Mr.  Stripling.  G-o-l-d? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Wliere  was  he  employed  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  believe  it  w^as  then  the  FEA.  I  can't  recall  whether 
BEAV  or  FEA,  but  it  was  that  same  outfit. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  he  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr,  Stripling,  Did  he  furnish  mformation  to  your  group? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  he  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Is  there  anyone  else  you  haven't  named? 

Miss  Bentley,  Yes ;  his  wife,  Sonia  Gold, 

Mr,  Stripling.  AVas  she  an  employee  of  the  Government? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  in  the  Treasury. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Let  me  ask  about  this  man  Kramer.  I  was  out  when 
you  were  testifying  about  him.  Do  you  say  Kramer  was  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party? 

Miss  Bentley.  He  told  me  he  had  been  a  member  for  a  good  many 
years. 


518  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Ml'.  Raxkix.  That  is  all  I  wanted  to  know.  My  recollection  is  he 
was  one  of  the  chief  men  who  dug  up  those  charges  for  the  persecution 
of  Senator  Bilbo,  who  was  dying  of  cancer  and  fighting  on  the  floor 
of  the  Senate  against  this  communistic  program  they  are  trying  to 
put  through  now,  and  I  think  this  man  Kramer  was  one  of  the  chief 
men  in  that  conspiracy. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Are  there  any  other  members.  Miss  Bentley,  of  the 
Silvermaster  group  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Let's  see,  now,  did  I  mention  Irving  Kaplan  I 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  did  not  mention  Mr.  Kaplan.  Where  was  he 
employed  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  He  v/as  employed  in  the  WPB.  He  was  in  a  very 
peculiar  position  because  he  was  paying  his  dues  to  the  Perlo  group 
and  giving  his  information  to  the  Silvermaster  group.  Somehow  the 
two  groups  got  a  little  scrambled  at  that  point. 

jNIr.  Stripling.  Are  there  any  others  ? 

The  Chairman.  When  you  have  an  employment  record  on  any  of 
these  people,  we  would  like  to  have  it  read. 

Mr,  Ra.nkin.  Wasn't  this  man  Kaplan  a  member  of  this  so-called 
FEPC  that  was  set  up  here  in  Washington  by  Executive  order? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  am  sorry,  I  don't  know  that. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  an  individual  by  the  name  of  Herbert 
Schimmell? 

Miss  Bentley.  No,  I  am  sorry. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  John  Abt? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

]Mr.  Stklpling.  Was  he  a  member  of  either  group  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  John  Abt  was  the  man  who  took  charge  of  the  Perlo 
group  before  I  had  it. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  whether  John  Abt  was  employed  in 
the  Government  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  I  know  very  little  about  him  except  I  believe 
he  was  with  the  PAC  at  one  time.     Oi-  the  PCA. 

Mr.  Stripling.  He  is  with  Mr.  Wallace  noAv. 

]Mr.  Rankin.  Get  that  PAC.  That  is  very  important.  You  mean 
the  CIO-PAC?     Is  that  what  you  are  talking  about? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Is  he  still  with  them  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  know  very  little  about  Mr.  Abt.  I  only  met  him 
twice  and  then  only  for  the  purpose  of  his  introducing  me  to  the 
members  of  the  Perlo  group  so  that  I  could  take  it  over. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  do  know  he  was  a  Communist  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Oh,  yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Are  there  any  other  members  of  the  Silvermaster 
group  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes,  Norman  Bursler. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Whei-e  was  he  employed? 

Miss  Bentley.  Antitrust  Division  of  the  Department  of  Justice. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  whether  John  Abt  was  ever  employed 
in  the  Department  of  Justice  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  know  practically  nothing  of  John  Abt's  back- 
ground, I  am  sorry. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Mr.  Chairman,  before  it  slips  my  mind  I  would  like 
to  suggest  that  our  staff  bring  the  employment  record  on  all  names 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  519 

mentioned  here  today  down  to  date,  iiu'luding  tlie  present  positions 
they  hold  either  in  pnblic  or  private  life. 

The  Chairman.  Withont  objection,  it  is  so  ordered. 

jNlr.  Striplixc.  Mr.  Chairman.  1  have  certain  information  here  on 
Mr.  Abt,  but  with  the  Chair's  permission  I  would  like  to  present  it  to 
the  committee  in  executive  session,  because  of  an  investigation  which 
we  have  going  on. 

The  reason,  Mr.  Mundt,  that  we  do  not  have  the  employment  record 
of  all  these  people  is  we  have  not  previously  interviewed  this  witness 
in  any  way.  We  have  not  been  in  touch  with  her  at  all.  The  reason 
these  matters  coincide  is  because  we  already  had  through  our  inves- 
tigations the  information  that  these  people  were  involved. 

ISlr.  MuNDT.  I  am  interested,  Mr.  Stripling,  in  getting  their  employ- 
ment records  down  to  date,  because  our  experience  on  another  com- 
mittee of  the  House  has  been  that,  especiall}^  where  Communists  have 
been  employed  in  the  State  Department  and  then  removed  because  of 
loyalty  charges,  they  have  gravitated  to  the  United  Nations.  I  want 
to  find  out  if  some  of  these  other  people  have  had  similar  experience. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes,  sir.     We  will  begin  working  on  that. 

Are  there  any  other  names.  Miss  Bentley,  of  the  Silvermaster  group 
that  you  have  not  mentioned? 

Miss  Bentley.  Just  one.  The  man  was  not  a  Communist  but  he 
did  give  information.     Lauchlin  Currie. 

JNIr.  Stripling.  What  type  of  information  did  he  give  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  being  in  the  position  he  was  in,  he  had  inside 
information  on  Government  policy, 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  he  a  secretary  to  the  President  of  the  United 
States? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  believe  that  was  his  title.  I  am  not  sure.  I  knew 
he  was  one  of  that  circle  around  the  President ;  yes. 

Mv.  Stripling.  He  was  employed  in  the  White  House,  was  he  not? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  information  did  he  furnish?     What  type? 

Miss  Bentley.  He  furnished  inside  information  on  this  Govern- 
ment's attitude  toward  China,  tow^ard  other  governments.  He  once 
relayed  to  us  the  information  that  the  American  Government  was  on 
the  verge  of  breaking  the  Soviet  code,  various  things. 

Mr.  Stripling.  But  Mr.  Currie  was  not  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party  to  your  knowledge? 

Miss  Bentley.  Not  to  my  knowledge ;  I  don't  believe  so. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Wliere  was  he  employed? 

Miss  Bentley.  In  the  White  House. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Secretary  to  the  President. 

Mr.  Mundt.  President  Truman? 

Mr.  Stripling.  President  Roosevelt. 

Mr.  Rankin.  When  was  that? 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  year  was  that? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  was  in  1943,  1944 — I  believe  he  was  there  in 
1942  also.  I  think  in  1944  he  moved  into  the  FEA.  At  least,  he  had 
a  high-up  position  there. 

Mr.  Rankin.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  Mr.  Mclntyre  was  secretary  to  the 
President  at  that  time,  wasn't  he  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  don't  know  what  Mr.  Currie's  title  was,  but  I 
think  he  is  sufficiently  well  known  so  that  someone  would  know. 


520  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Rankin.  If  I  remember  correctly,  Mr,  Mclntyre  was  succeeded 
by  Steve  Early. 

Miss  Bentley.  Not  that  type  of  secretary.  If  he  was  a  secretary  at 
all,  he  was  an  adviser  to  the  President  and  not  a  secretary. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  see.  You  tell  the  committee  that  this  man  Currie, 
while  he  was  employed  in  the  White  House,  was  giving  your  Com- 
munist organization  secret  information? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Why  did  you  wait  so  long  to  report  that  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  beg  your  pardon  ? 

Mr.  Rankin.  Why  did  you  wait  so  long  to  report  that  information 
to  a  committee  of  Congress  ? 

(No  response.) 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Can  we  develop  that  a  little  later? 

Mr.  Rankin.  It  is  very  important.  You  were  charging  that  there 
was  a  Russian  spy  in  the  White  House,  and  I  would  like  to  get  the  facts 
about  it  now. 

Mr.  Stripling.  The  reason  as  to  why  she  didn't  report  this  earlier, 
Mr.  Rankin,  we  are  coming  to  that. 

Mr.  Rankin.  All  right.  I  don't  want  to  interrupt  the  gentleman's 
procedure. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  in  connection  with  Lauchlin  Currie, 
we  have  the  file  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission  on  Nathan  Gregory 
Silvermaster. 

The  Chairman.  By  the  way.    How  do  you  spell  that  name? 

Mr.  Stripling.  L-a-u-c-h-1-i-n  C-u-r-r-i-e.  The  Civil  Service  Com- 
mission had  under  investigation  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster  over  a 
long  period  of  time.    We  have  a  file  about  this  tall  [indicating]. 

Mr.  Rankin.  What  was  that  statement? 

Mr.  Stripling.  We  have  a  very  voluminous  file  which  the  Civil  Serv- 
ice Commission  accumulated  on  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster.  From 
time  to  time  they  would  hear  him  regarding  his  alleged  Communist 
affiliations.  We  have  a  memorandum  which  states  that  after  hearing 
Mr.  Silvermaster  they  were  referred  to  Lauchlin  Currie  to  get  the  true 
facts  on  Silvermaster.  After  conferring  with  Lauchlin  Currie,  Mr. 
Silvermaster  remained  in  his  employ.  That  is  according  to  the  files  of 
the  Civil  Service  Commission. 

Miss  Bentley.  May  I  say  something,  Mr.  Stripling? 

The  Chairman.  Miss  Bentley. 

Miss  Bentley.  It  was  definitely  from  my  own  knowledge  due  to  Mr. 
Currie's  influence  that  Mr.  Silvermaster  was  not  ousted  from  his  job 
in  the  BEW  but  was  permitted  to  return  to  the  Agriculture  Depart- 
ment without  any  stigma  on  him. 

Mr.  Stripling'.  Mr.  Chairman,  it  is  quite  evident  from  examination 
of  the  file,  which  I  should  be  glad  to  place  before  the  committee,  that 
there  was  some  influence  involved  because  the  record  was  very  straight 
as  to  Mr.  Silvermaster's  long  Communist  associations  and  he  was  never 
dismissed  from  the  Government  for  that  reason. 

To  clarify  a  point,  Mr.  Rankin,  which  we  have  checked,  Mr.  Charles 
Kramer,  whose  name  is  Charles  Krevitsky,  was  staff  director  on  the 
Education  and  Labor  Committee,  according  to  our  information,  and 
Senator  Pepper  was  chairman  of  the  subcommittee. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  521 

Mr.  Kankik.  I  want  to  ask  one  more  question. 

AVas  this  man  Cnrrie,  whom  you  say  was  empk)yed  in  the  White 
House — was  he  under  David  K.  Niles  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  don't  knoAv  whether  he  was  under  Mr.  Niles  or 
whether  he  worked  as  a  coworker  with  Mv.  Niles. 

jNIr.  Raxkix.  But  I  understand  from  your  statement  that  they  were 
associated. 

Miss  Bextley.  From  what  I  have  heard,  yes;  they  were  associated, 
but  I  don't  know  the  relationship  between  them. 

Mr.  RAX'KIX^  Was  Mr.  Niles  mixed  up  in  all  this  movement  that  you 
are  talking  about? 

Miss  Bextley.  Not  to  my  knowledge.  From  what  I  have  heard  of 
Mr.  Niles  he  wasn't,  but  I  can't  state  of  my  own  knowledge. 

Mr.  Raxkix  .  I  see. 

The  Chairman.  The  chairman  would  like  to  make  a  statement  at 
this  time.  The  committee  will  go  into  executive  session  at  this  time 
and  then  shortly  after  that  we  will  recess  and  convene  again  promptly 
at  1 :  30  with  Miss  Bentley  as  a  witness  at  that  time. 

Miss  Bentley,  will  you  stay  there,  please. 

Mr.  StripliX'G.  Mr.  Chairman,  could  we  reconvene  at  1:15? 

The  Chairman.  All  right,  we  will  make  it  1 :  15. 

The  committee  will  now  recess.     We  will  go  into  executive  session. 

(Whereupon,  at  l^J :  01  p.  m.,  the  committee  retired  into  executive 
session.) 

afternoon  session 

Mr.  Mux-^DT  (presiding).  The  committee  vrill  please  come  to  order. 

Mr.  Stripling,  you  may  proceed  with  the  interrogation. 

Mr.  Striplix-^g.  Miss  Bentley,  when  the  committee  recessed  at  noon, 
I  believe  you  had  just  completed  naming  the  members  of  the  Silver- 
master  espionage  group,  as  well  as  the  members  of  the  Perlo  espionage 
group,  who  were  employed  in  the  Government. 

Now,  are  there  any  other  individuals  who  were  members  of  either 
group  that  you  had  not  named  tdda}- ? 

Miss  Bextley.  No  ;  I  don't  believe  so. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Could  you  tell  me  whether  or  not  at  any  time  the 
group  attempted  to  have  a  Government  official  transferred  to  a  differ- 
ent job  in  order  that  he  might  secure  certain  information  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes:  I  understand  that  it  was  the  general  policy  of 
that  group  and  also  other  groups  to  transfer  anyone  in  what  we  would 
call  a  "nonproductive"'  job  into  a  job  that  would  be  of  more  use.  I 
understood  that  in  many  cases  they  had  conspired  or  finagled  to  move 
people  into  better  spots. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Now  that  we  have  completed  the  naming  of  the 
personnel  which  comprised  each  group,  I  vrish  you  would  describe 
to  the  committee  the  mechanical  operation  of  the  group,  just  how  they 
operated,  what  you  did.  what  the  group  did. 

Take  the  Silvermaster  group  first. 

Miss  Bentley.  It  was  my  policy  to  come  down  almost  regularly 
every  2  weeks.  I  would  go  to  the  Silvermaster  home,  very  often  have 
dinner  with  them,  spend  the  evening,  and  collect  from  the'm  the  infor- 
mation which  they  had  previously  collected  from  the  members  of  the 
group. 

Mr.  Stripling.  AVhere  did  he  live  ? 


522  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Miss  Bentley.  I  can't  remember  the  exact  street.  It  was  out  just 
before  you  get  to  Chevy  Chase  Circle.  I  think  it  was  Thirty-fourth  or 
Tliirty-fifth  Street.     I  have  forgotten  the  address  right  now. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  it  in  the  District  of  Coknnbia  or  was  it  in 
Maryland? 

Miss  Bentley.  It  was  within  the  District  line ;  yes.  •  I  will  tell  you, 
it  was  just  about  a  block  from  Mr.  Curley's 

Mr.  Stripling.  Curley,  C-u-r-1-e-y? 

Miss  Bentley.  The  former  Governor  of  Massachusetts,  was  he  not'^ 

Mr.  McDowell.  You  mean  Congressman  Curley. 

Miss  Bentley.  I  believe  it  was  just  about  a  block  from  his  house. 
Is  that  Thirty-second  Street  ? 

Mr.  McDowell.  There  is  no  attempt  here,  I  judge,  to  link  Mr. 
Curley 

Miss  Bentley.  No.  It  is  just  that  it  is  hard  for  me  to  remember 
streets.  I  remembered  how  to  get  there,  but  it  is  hard  for  me  to  tell 
you  the  street. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  it  be  Thirty-fifth  Street? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  I  think  it  would  be  nearer  Thirty-second.  I 
think  it  would  be  Thirty-second  Street. 

Mr.  Stripling.  We  have  it  here,  Mr.  Chairman ;  we  will  locate  it. 

Miss  Bentley.  I  could  take  you  out  there,  but  I  cannot  remember 
the  number  of  it. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  type  of  infoimation  did  Mr.  Silvermasier 
turn  over  to  you  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  He  turned  over  whatever  members  of  his  group  se- 
cured, which  was  varied,  depending  on  the  spot  the  person  was  in. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  type  of  information  was  actually  turned  over 
to  you,  and  which  you  transferred  to  Mr.  Golos? 

Miss  Benti>ey.  Military  information,  j)articularly  from  the  Air 
Corps,  on  production  of  aii'planes,  their  destinations  to  the  various 
theaters  of  war  and  to  various  countries,  new  types  of  planes  being 
put  out,  information  as  to  when  D-day  would  be,  all  sorts  of  inside 
military  information. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  would  you  transmit  this  information,  yourself, 
acting  as  a  courier  for  the  group  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  depended.  In  the  very  early  days  they  either 
typed  it  out  or  brought  me  documents.  Later  on  they  began  photo- 
graphing it. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  was  the  photographing  carried  out? 

Miss  Benixey.  In  the  basement  of  the  Silvermaster  house. 

Mr.  Stripling.  They  had  the  equipment  there  to  do  it  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  they  did.  They  had  a  Contax  camera,  and 
had  the  set-up  all  ready  for  putting  the  documents  in  and  holding  the 
documents  in  place. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  did  jon  do  with  the  photographs  or  documents 
once  you  received  them  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  gave  them  to  Mr.  Golos. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  mean,  how  did  you  take  them  back  to  New  York? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  whatever  way  was  practical.  If  I  had  a  large 
pocketbook  and  there  was  room  in  that,  I  took  them,  or  in  a  knitting 
bag  or  a  shopping  bag  or  whatever  was  handy,  depending  on  the  size 
of  the  collection. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  523 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  have  large  packages  of  material  to  take,  or 
were  the}^  usually  small  ? 

Miss  Bentley".  Yes;  toward  the  end ;  yes.  Toward  the  beginning  it 
was  just  starting,  as  you  realize,  and  there  was  not  too  much  material. 
Also  at  that  time  we  did  not  have  anybody  in  the  Pentagon,  but  then, 
as  the  war  progressed,  and  as  we  got  people  into  the  Pentagon,  the 
volume  increased  quite  heavily. 

Mr.  Stkiplixg.  Are  you  familiar  with  any  specific  plans  or  docu- 
ments which  came  from  the  Pentagon  which  you  delivered  to  Mr. 
Golos? 

Miss  Bentley.  Most  of  those  documents  were  photographed  and, 
therefore,  I  do  not  remember  the  documents. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Well,  do  you  recall  any  particular  photograph,  any 
particular  plans  for  any  aircraft? 

JSIiss  Bentley.  I  remember  information  on  the  B-29,  some  of  which 
was  photographed,  some  of  which  I  typed  out. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  to  go  back  to  the  address  of  Mr. 
Silvermaster,  it  was  5515  Thirtieth  Street. 

Is  that  correct? 

Miss  Bentley.  It  was  a  street  next  to  Thirtieth  Place;  that  would 
make  it  Tliirtieth;  yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  many  trips  would  you  say  you  made  to  Mr. 
Silvermaster's  home  to  collect  information? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  I  went  every  2  weeks,  and  I  knew  them  until 
the  end  of  September  1044.  I  don't  know  how  many  that  would  make, 
added  to  which  oftentimes  they  came  up  to  New  York  in  the  mean- 
while, and  when  they  came  they  brought  things,  so  it  is,  I  mean,  hard 
to  figure  out  exactly  how  many  it  would  be. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Wliere  would  they  meet  you  in  New  York  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Various  places.  Very  often,  one  or  the  other  of 
them  stayed  in  the  Hotel  Victoria  or  the  Hotel  Times  Square,  and  I 
would  meet  them  there,  or  I  would  have  breakfast  w-ith  them  at 
Schraffts  on  Times  Square,  you  know,  at  Forty-third  Street — all  sorts 
of  places  we  went.     We  didn't  always  go  to  the  same  place. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  meet  anyone  in  Washington  besides  Mr. 
Silvermaster  in  relation  to  the  Silvermaster  group? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  I  met  his  wife,  Mrs.  Helen  Silvermaster. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  did  you  meet  her  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  At  the  house. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Now,  you  stated  that  photographs  were  made 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  the  Silvermaster's  basement. 

Do  you  know  who  made  these  photographs  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Wlien  Mr.  Ullmann  was  available,  he  did  it,  because 
he  made  himself  into  an  expert  photographer.  When  he  was  away, 
or  if  it  was  just  too  much  for  him  to  handle,  Mrs.  Silvermaster  worked 
W'ith  him. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  any  of  these  people  mentioned  in  the  Silver- 
master  group  ever  come  to  the  Silvermaster  home  while  you  were 
there  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Just  once. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Who  was  that? 

Miss  Bentley.  George  Silverman. 


524  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  George  Silverman?  When  you  obtained  the  mate- 
rial, you  M'ent  to  New  York  and  you  turned  it  over  personally  to  Mr. 
Golos? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  until  his  death;  yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  did  Mr.  Golos  do  with  the  material  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  If  the  material  was  nonmilitary,  of  a  political  char- 
acter, he  first  took  it  down  to  Mr.  Earl  Browder  to  show  it  to  him,  and 
then  passed  it  on  to  his  Russian  contact. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Who  was  the  Russian  contact? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  think  that  his  Russian  contact  was  called  Charlie, 
but  I  don't  know  anything  about  that.  We  never  kne^^■  them  by  any 
other  names  than  these  nicknames. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  see  Charlie? 

Miss  Bentley.  No,  sir;  not  to  my  knowledge, 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  have  any  idea  where  Mr.  Golos  met  Charlie  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  I  don't.  He  was  very  discreet  about  his  con- 
nections. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  by  what  means  Charlie  relayed  this 
information  to  the  Soviet  Union  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No ;  I  don't. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  other  words,  your  job  ended  when  you  delivered 
it  to  Mr.  Golos  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct ;  yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  Mr.  Golos  ever  discuss  with  you  in  any  detail 
the  method  through  which  he  transferred  information  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No  ;  he  was  very  close-mouthed. 

Mr.  Stripling.  During  your  activities  in  the  Communist  Party 
and  also  during  the  period  you  were  active  as  a  courier  in  this  espionage 
ring,  did  you  have  any  connection  or  contact  with  Louis  Budenz? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  I  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  He  was  the  general  manager  of  the  Daily  Worker  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  think  that  was  his  title.  I  thought  he  was  one  of 
the  editors. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Managing  editor,  I  am  sorry. 

Miss  Bentley.  He  was  one  of  the  editors,  I  know. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  was  your  relationship  with  Mr.  Budenz  in 
connection  with  this  work? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  I  was  introduced  to  him  about  6  months  or  so 
before  Mr.  Golos'  death,  because  Mr.  Golos  was  getting  quite  feeble 
then  and  could  not  take  care  of  it.  He  told  me  that  Mr.  Budenz  was 
of  great  value  inasmuch  as  he  had  access  to  contacts  who  might  be 
useful  to  us,  and  also  that  he  was  in  contact  with  people  who  could 
give  us  useful  information. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  thereafter  meet  Mr.  Budenz  at  any  time? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  I  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  give  any  information  to  you  or  did  you  give 
any  to  him? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  he  did  give  me  information. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  did  you  do  with  the  information? 

Miss  Bentley.  Brought  it  back  to  Mr.  Golos  as  long  as  he  was  alive. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  type  of  information  was  it  that  Mr.  Budenz 
gave  you  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  He  was  a  friend  of  Louis  Adamic,  the  well-known 
Yugoslav  writer,  and  Mr.  Adamic  had  some  unofficial — I.  don't  believe 


morning 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  525 

he  Mas  paid — connection  with  the  OSS  which  was  then  interested  in 
Yuiioslavia ;  and  Mr.  Adamic  gave  this  information  to  Mr.  Budenz. 
Mr.  Budenz  relayed  it  to  me. 

Mr.  Rankin.  What  is  the  name  of  that  man  we  mentioned  this 

? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Charles  Kramer. 

Did  you  have  any  personal  contact  with  Earl  Browder  himself? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes,  I  did;  but  in  a  business  capacity  only,  after 
Mr.  Golos'  death.  Before  that  it  was  purely  social.  In  other  words, 
when  Mr.  Golos  went  up  to  visit  Mr.  Browder  at  his  summer  place  at 
Monroe  he  would  take  me  along,  and  I  would  talk  to  Mrs.  Browder 
and  have  dinner,  but  there  was  no  business  involved. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Going  now  to  the  Perlo  espionage  group,  who  turned 
the  material  over  that  that  group  collected? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  did  not  quite  get  that. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Who  was  it  in  the  Perlo  group  who  turned  the  mate- 
rial over  to  you? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  it  depends.  Whoever  was  coming  to  New  York 
on  business  or  to  see  their  family,  or  who  was  selected,  came  up. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  other  words,  you  did  not  come  to  Washington 
for  the  purpose  of  collecting  information  from  the  Perlo  group? 

Miss  Bentley.  No  ;  I  did  not. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Only  the  Silvermaster  group  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  that  is  correct. 

]\Ir.  Stripling.  Who,  in  the  Perlo  group 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  I  met  Victor  Perlo,  Harry  Magdoff,  Edward 
Fitzgerald,  Charlie  Kramer,  Donald  Wheeler,  Allan  Rosenberg. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  did  you  meet  these  people,  do  you  recall  ? 
Did  you  have  a  regular  meeting? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  I  first  met  them,  at  least  the  four  I  first  men- 
tioned, I  met  the  first  time  in  Mr.  Abt's  apartment  on  Central  Park 
West. 

Mr.  Stripling.  John  Abt  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  About  One  Hundred  and  Third  Street,  I  think  it  is. 
I  don't  know  the  exact  number. 

Mr.  Stripling.  But  your  regular  job,  so  to  speak,  as  a  courier,  was 
in  collecting  the  information  from  the  Silvermaster  group  here  in 
AVashington. 

Miss  Bentley.  From  the  Silvermaster  group  and  various  indi- 
viduals. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Could  you  elaborate  on  the  military  information 
Avhich  you  secured  from  the  Silvermaster  grouj)  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  the  military  information  came  largely  from 
George  Silverman  and  Ludwig  Ullmann,  and,  as  I  said,  it  was  infor- 
mation of  the  most  varied  things  you  could  think  of.  We  had  com- 
plete data  as  to  almost  all  of  the  aircraft  production  in  the  country, 
as  to  types,  how  many  were  being  produced,  where  they  were  allocated, 
and  so  on.  We  had  all  sorts  of  inside  information  on  policies  of  the 
Air  Corps.  As  I  said,  we  knew  D-day  long  before  D-day  happened, 
and  we  were  right.  Practically  all  the  inside  policies  that  were  going 
(m  inside  the  Air  Corps.  We  got  quite  a  bit  of  information  about  the 
General  Hilldring's  activities. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  identify  General  Hilldring? 


526  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  I  am  not  quite  sure  myself  what  his  status  was 
in  there. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  was  the  type  of  information  that  you  got 
regarding  General  Hillclring  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Mostly  inside  policy  data  on  what  we  were  planning 
in  the  way,  as  I  said,  of  invasions  and  action  in  Europe. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Going  back  for  a  moment,  you  gave  John  Abt's  ad- 
dress as  Central  Park  West.  Was  it  4M  Central  Park  West.  New 
York  City? 

Miss  Bentley.  It  could  have  been.  I  don't  remember.  I  only  went 
there  twice  I  think  it  was.  It  was  around  One  Hundred  and  Third 
Street.     Would  that  be  about  right? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  meet  an  individual  by  the  name  of 
Edward  Newhouse  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No  ;  I  am  sorry. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  meet  an  individual  by  the  name  of 
Louise  Bransten? 

Miss  Bentley,  Yes ;  I  went  to  college  with  her. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  have  any  subsequent  acquaintance  with  her 
after  you  left  college  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Not  in  any  way  that  would  affect  this.  I  bumped 
into  her,  I  think  in  1935,  clown  in  Communist  Party  headquarters, 
where  we  both  expressed  mutual  surprise,  and  I  know  that  she  was  a 
very  good  friend  of  Helen  Silvermaster,  because  Plelen  Silvermaster 
was  always  telling  me  about  Louise  and  her  past  acquaintance  with  lier. 

Mr.  McDow^ELL.  You  went  to  Vassar  College  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes.  I  understand,  from  what  Louise  Bransten 
told  me,  that  she  went  there  2  years  and  left  at  the  end  of  the  second 
year.     I  don't  remember  her  too  well  from  college. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Miss  Bentley,  did  any  of  the  people  who  were  in- 
volved in  any  of  these  groups  receive  any  money  from  the  Communist 
Party  or  from  yourself  or  from  Mr.  Silvermaster  that  you  know  of? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  they  received  no  money.  They  received  only 
traveling  expenses  if  they  had  to  come  to  New  York. 

Mr.  Stripling.  They  did  receive  traveling  expenses  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  that  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripling.  From  wdiom  did  they  receive  money? 

Miss  Bentley.  Mr.  Golos  gave  it  to  me,  and  I  gave  it  to  them. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Why  were  these  people  furnishing  information  to 
Mr.  Golos? 

Miss  Bentley.  Because  they  had  been  told  that  it  Avas  their  duty  as 
Communists  to  do  it,  and  they  had  been  told  that  Russia  was  our  ally, 
that  she  was  bearing  the  brunt  of  the  war,  that  she  was  not  being 
properly  treated  as  an  ally,  and  it  was  their  duty  to  do  something  about 
it. 

(The  Chairman,  Hon.  J.  Parnell  Thomas,  assumes  the  chair.) 

Mr.  Striplin*;.  Did  you  receive  any  money  from  Mr.  Golos  in 
connection  with  your  activities? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  only  expenses. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  w^ere  you  employed  during  this  period? 

Miss  Bentley.  In  the  United  States  Service  and  Shipping  Cor}). 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  was  the  United  States  Service  and  Shippinu" 
Corp.?  ^ 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  527 

Miss  Bentley.  That  was  an  oi-ganization  which  had  a  contract 
W'ith  Intoiirist  JMoscow  for  the  forwarding  of  packages  to  individuals 
in  the  U.  S.  S.  R. 

Mr.  STRirLiXG.  You  have  no  information  as  to  how  this  informa- 
tion was  transmitted  to  the  U.  S.  S.  R.  other  than  that  it  was  turned 
over  to  an  individual  by  the  name  of  Charlie? 

Miss  Bextley.  That  was  during  Mr.  Golos'  lifetime. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes.  After  Mr.  Golos  died,  what  did  you  do  with 
the  information  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  During  the  years  1941,  1942,  and  1943,  before  Mr. 
Golos  died,  he  made  alternate  arrangements  for  me  to  meet  contacts, 
off  and  on,  just  in  case  anything  happened  to  him  and  I  would  have 
to  carry  on,  and  I  had  an  appointment  with  one  of  these  individuals 
a  few  clays  after  Mr.  Golos'  death.  Then  I  met  her,  and  she  said  that 
she  had  a  new  boss  for  me  to  meet,  and  introduced  me  to  an  individual 
who  called  himself  Bill. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Bill? 

Miss  Bentley.  And  I  continued  to  give  the  stuff  to  Bill. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  now  who  Bill  was  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Xo  ;  I  don't. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Have  you  seen  him  in  recent  years  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  break  with  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Was  Bill  a  Russian  or  an  American? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  would  say  from  his  accent  and  his  physiognomy 
that  he  was  a  Russian,  although  I  could  not  swear  to  that. 

The  Chairman.  Bill  who  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  That  is  the  onh^  identity  the  witness  has.  Where 
did  you  meet  Bill  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  met  him  on  Park  Avenue,  about  Fiftieth  Street, 
and  he  Avas  coming  one  way  on  the  street  and  we  came  the  other,  and 
we  met  there. 

Mr.  Stripling.  And  you  handed  the  information  to  him  then? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  night  I  had  no  information.  I  had  simply 
to  meet  him  in  order  to  establish  future  relations. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  meet  other  individuals  who  you  were  to 
work  with  in  the  event  something  happened  to  Mr.  Golos? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  had  up  to  the  end  of  September  1944,  two  con- 
tacts, Bill  and  the  original  girl  who  had  introduced  me  to  Bill,  an 
American  who  Avent  under  the  name  of  Catharine.  I  usually  saw 
Bill,  but  when  Bill  could  not  make  it,  Catharine  got  there. 

Mr.  Stripling.  During  this  time  did  you  visit  the  Communist  Party 
headquarters? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  I  went  down  ever  so  often  to  see  Earl  Browder. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  it  in  connection  with  these  espionage  activities 
or  not? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  it  was.  It  was  in  connection  with  these,  be- 
cause whenever  I  received  material  I  continued  Mr.  Golos'  practice 
of  taking  it  to  show  to  Earl  Browder. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  showed  all  this  material  to  Earl  Brow^der? 

]\liss  Beniley.  Except  for  the  military.  He  did  not  wish  to  have 
the  military. 

Mr.  Stripling.  The  military  was  turned  over  to  Mr.  Golos? 


528  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Miss  Bentlvy.  Well,  I  understood  you  were  speakino;  about  after 
Mr.  Golos'  death. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Well,  let  us  get  this  straight  now.  Before  Mr. 
Golos  died  you  turned  everything  over  to  him. 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripling.  After  he  died — — • 

Miss  Ben  I  LEY.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  turned  only  political  material  over  to  Mr. 
Browder  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  did  not  turn  it  over  to  him.  I  took  it  down  and 
let  him  look  at  it,  and  then  I  brought  it  back,  and  put  it  back  with 
the  rest  of  the  material,  and  passed  it  on  to  the  Russians. 

Mr.  Stripling.  But  you  did  not  show  him  material  that  was  mili- 
tary, any  military  material? 

Miss  Bentley.  On  his  own  request. 

Mr.  McDowell.  It  would  be  interesting  to  know  why  he  did  not 
want  to  see  military  material. 

Miss  Bentley.  There  probably  are  a  number  of  reasons,  one  of 
which  was  that  he  did  not  want  to  be  involved  too  deeply  in  it.  I 
don't  know. 

Mr.  McDoavell.  He  had  knowledge,  however,  that  you  had  that 
material  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Oh,  yes;  but  he  just  did  not  want  to  know  it, 

Mr.  Rankin.  That  is  the  reason  the  Cominform  ordered  him  re- 
moved and  this  fellow  William  Z.  Foster  was  put  in  his  place.  That 
is  testimony  brought  out  before  this  committee. 

By  the  way,  who  is  this  Catharine  you  referred  to  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  don't  know. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  do  not  know  her  other  name? 

Miss  Bentley.  No. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Was  she  Russian,  too? 

Miss  Bentley.  We  never  knew  the  other  names,  and  as  far  as  I 
know,  no  one  knows. 

Mr.  Rankin.  What  did  she  look  like? 

Miss  Bi^NTLEY.  She  was  either  Scotch  or  Irish,  of  Scotch  or  Irish 
extraction.  I  would  say  she  was  about  5  foot  8,  long  and  slender, 
blond  curly  hair  done  in  one  of  these — what  do  you  call  them — wind- 
blown bobs,  light  hair,  light  eyes. 

The  CiiAiRMXN.  If  j'^ou  saw  a  picture  of  her,  you  would  recognize 
her? 

Miss  Bentley.  Oh,  yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  While  Mr.  Stripling  is  getting  ready  for  another 
question,  Miss  Bentley,  you  said  a  little  while  ago  that  when  you  came 
to  Washington  you  contacted  either  Mr.  Silvermaster  or  other  in- 
dividuals, indicating  there  might  be  some  individuals  outside  of  the 
Silvermaster  group  whom  you  contacted. 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes,  there  were. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Were  they  in  the  Government? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  they  Avere  in  the  Government. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Have  you  given  us  those  names  this  morning? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  Mr.  Stripling  has  not  asked  me  for  them  yet. 
I  was  waiting  for  him  to  ask. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  529 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  think  we  ought  to  complete  the  roster,  if  the  list  is 
not  too  long,  and  I  think  you  should  furnish  those  names  now  so  we 
will  have  the  names  before  us. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  are  referring  now,  Mr.  Mundt,  to  Government 
employees  who  were  not  members  of  either  the  Silvermaster  or  the 
Perlo  group. 

Miss  Bentlet.  Would  you  like  for  me  to  start  with  that? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes ;  give  those  names  to  the  committee. 

Miss  Bentley.  Duncan  Lee. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Duncan  Lee? 

Miss  Bextley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  was  he  employed? 

Miss  Bentley.  He  was  one  of  the  legal  advisers  to  Gen.  William 
Donovan  in  the  OSS. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Was  he  a  Communist? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  And  he  was  an  assistant  to  whom? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  there  was  a  circle  of  lawyers  around  General 
Donovan  in  the  OSS,  and  he  was  one  of  them.  He  had  worked  with 
General  Donovan  in  his  law  firm  before  he  went  into  the  OSS. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  would  like  to  ask  a  question  at  this 
point.  This  is  with  regard  to  the  names  on  the  list  that  have  already 
been  covered.  I  would  like  to  ask  a  question  about  the  list  that  has 
already  been  covered.  I  would  like  to  ask  that  before  you  go  ahead 
with  this  list,  if  you  want  to. 

The  Chairman.  We  would  rather  follow  in  chronological  order  and 
continue  with  this  list. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Is  that  all  the  information  you  have  on  Duncan  Lee, 
Miss  Bentlej^  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  What  else  would  you  like  to  know  about  him? 

Mr.  Mundt.  Wliat  kind  of  information  can  you  give  us  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  All  types  of  information  were  given,  highly  secret 
information,  on  what  the  OSS  was  doing,  such  as,  for  example,  that 
they  were  trying  to  make  secret  negotiations  with  governments  in  the 
Balkan  bloc,  in  case  the  war  ended,  that  they  were  parachuting  people 
into  Hungary,  that  they  were  sending  OSS  people  into  Turkey  to 
operate  in  the  Balkans  and  so  on.  The  fact  that  General  Donovan 
AN-as  interested  in  having  an  exchange  between  the  NKVD  and  the. 
OSS,  all  sorts  of  information. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Inasmuch  as  Duncan  Lee  was  not  a  member,  apparently, 
of  the  Silvermaster  group,  how  did  you  establish  the  first  contact 
with  him  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  Duncan  Lee  was  a  member  of  the  IPR,  or 
Institute  for  Pacific  Relations,  in  New  York,  and  through  that  he 
knew  Mildred  Price,  who  was  Mary  Price's  sister.  And  when  Duncan 
Lee  was  sent  down  to  Washington  to  join  the  OSS,  Mary  came  to  us, 
told  us  about  him,  and  we  were  to  take  him  on.  Mar}"  took  care  of 
him  for  awhile,  and  then  Mary  left  Washington,  and  I  took  him  over 
at  that  ])oint. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  Just  how  did  you  establish  your  first  contact  with 
Duncan  Lee  when  vou  first  came  down?  You  said,  "I  am  tlie  gal 
who  IS  going  to  be  your  contact? 

80408 — 48 3 


530  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  he  had  been  dealing  with  Mary.  He  knew 
Mary  personally,  you  see,  through  her  sister,  and  Mary  had  told  him 
about  me,  and  the  name  I  had  gone  by,  which  was  Helen,  and  I  just 
walked  into  his  apartment  and  said,  ''I  am  Helen,"  and  spoke  about 
things  that  only  the  two  of  us  would  know,  and  that  is  how  we  made 
our  contact. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  So  you  met  him  in  his  apartment  to  get  the  informa- 
tion? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  all  of  this  varied.  It  started  with  his  apart- 
ment, and  then  he  got  very  nervous  and  wished  to  meet  me  in  the 
street,  so  we  would  meet  in  drug  stores,  and  so  on.  All  of  this  varied. 
There  was  no  standard  practice.  Sometimes  it  was  one  place  and 
sometimes  another. 

Mr.  jMundt.  Who  else,  then,  besides  Duncan  L^e,  in  this  group  of 
miscellaneous  individuals,  belonged  to  neither  group  '\ 

Miss  Bentley.  Helen  Tenney.  She  worked  in  the — well,  I  would 
guess  you  call  it  the  hush-hush  division  of  the  OSS,  in  the  Spanish 
Division,  and  then  when  that  sort  of  dried  uj).  why,  she  was  handling 
the  Balkans,  too,  at  one  time. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  She  was  a  Communist  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Who  else  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  J.  Julius  Joseph. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Where  did  he  work? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  originally  he  was  in  the  predecessor  to  the 
War  Manpower  Commission.  Then  he  went  into  the  War  Manpower 
Commission;  then,  when  he  was  about  to  be  drafted,  he  pulled  strings 
through  a  friend  of  his,  whose  name  I  don't  know,  and  got  himself 
pullecl  out  into  the  OSS,  where  he  was  in  the  hush-hush  Japanese 
Division,  which  was  right  next  door  to  the  Russian  Division,  so  in 
addition  to  things  on  Japan,  he  also  had  information  on  what  they 
were  doing  about  Russian  activities. 

Mr,  MuNDT,  Is  he  a  Communist  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Did  you  collect  dues  from  him  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  his  wife  also  worked  for  the  OSS,  for  about 
6  months,  in  the  Publicity  Division,  the  division  where  they  used  to 
23ut  together  these  films  to  show  to  the  General  Staff. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  She  also  was  a  Communist? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Who  else  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Maurice  Halperin.  He  was  head  of  the  Latin- 
American  Division.  He  was  head  of  the  Latin-American  Division 
Research  and  Analysis  Branch  of  the  OSS. 

Mr.  MuNUT.  Was  he  a  Communist? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Did  you  collect  dues  from  him  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Mundt.  What  kind  of  information  would  he  give  you? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  in  addition  to  all  the  information  which  the 
OSS  was  getting  on  Latin  America,  he  had  access  to  the  cables  which 
the  OSS  was  getting  in  from  its  agents  abroad,  world-wide  informa- 
tion of  various  sorts,  and  also  the  OSS  had  an  agreement  with  the 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  531 

State  Department  whereby  he  also  coukl  see  State  Department  cables 
on  vital  issues. 

Mv.  MuNDT.  How  did  j'ou-  establish  your  first  contact  with  Mr. 
Halperin? 

INliss  Benti.ey.  Well,  Mr.  Halperin  got  stranded  in  Washington 
without  a  contact,  and  he  was  a  friend  of  Willard  Park,  who  has  not 
yet  been  mentioned,  and  the  two  of  them  got  together  and  got  in  con- 
tact with  Bruce  Minton,  whose  real  name  is  Richard  Bransten,  and 
asked  him  what  to  do,  and  he  came  to  New  York,  and  saw  Mr.  Golos, 
and  arrangements  w^ere  made  for  me  to  go  to  Mr.  Park's  house  and 
meet  the  two  of  them. 

Mr.  JNIuNDT.  Bruce  INIinton  made  that  arrangement? 
Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 
Mr.  MuNDT.  Who  is  Bruce  Minton  ? 

Miss  Bektley.  I  don't  know  what  he  is  right  now,  but  at  that  time 
he  was  writing  for  the  New  Masses. 

Mr.  JMcDowELL.  He  was  one  of  the  editors  of  the  New  Masses. 
Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  in  connection  with  Willard  Z.  Park, 
our  investigation  shows  that  he  resides  at  36  Poplar  Avenue,  Takoma 
Park,  Md.  He  was  employed  at  the  time  in  the  office  of  the  Co- 
ordinator of  Inter-American  Affairs,  and  a  cousin  of  Richard  Brans- 
ten,  alias  Bruce  Minton,  formerly  editor  of  the  New  Masses. 

On  January  2,  1944,  Louise  Bransten  vv-as  a  gTiest  at  his  home;  he 
was  also  active  in  the  American  Peace  ^Mobilization  in  1940,  which  or- 
ganization, as  you  recall,  was  picketing  the  White  House. 
Mr.  MuNDT.  Did  you  also  make  a  contact  with  Mr.  Park? 
INIiss  Bentley.  Yes,  I  did,  but  he  did  not  last  too  long.    He  was 
in  the  CIAA,  that  Nelson  Rockfeller  outfit,  and  he  was  not  a  Com- 
munist Party  member.     He  was  what  we  called  a  sympathizer,  and 
was  not  too  ready  to  help,  and  he  was  rather  temperamental,  and  his 
information  was  not  too  valuable,  besides  which  we  had  two  other 
people  in  the  same  office,  so  we  did  not  carry  on  wdtli  him  very  lono-. 
Mr.  MuNDT.  Who  were  the  other  two  people  ? 

Miss  Benixey.  One  was  Robert  Miller,  who  was  the  head  of  the 
Research  Division  of  the  CIAA,  and  the  other  was  Joseph  Gregg,  who 
Avas  one  of  his  assistants. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Was  Mr.  Miller  a  Communist  ? 
Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Did  you  collect  dues  from  him  ? 
Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 
Mr.  jNIundt.  How  did  you  spell  Gregg  ? 
Miss  Bentley.  G-r-e-g-g. 
Mr.  MuNDT.  Was  he  also  a  Communist? 

Miss  Bentley.  Oh,  yes;  he  had  fought  in  the  Spanish  civil  war. 
Mr.  MuNDT.  Did  you  collect  dues  from  him  ? 
Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Mundt.  How  much  dues  would  these  fellows  pay  ? 
Miss  Bentley.  That  depended  entirely  on  their  income,  and  on 
the  Communist  Party  scale  of  dues  at  that  time.     Both  of  them 
changed  considerably. 

Mr.  Mundt.  In  general  terms,  what  was  the  donation,  small  or 
large,  that  they  made? 


532  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  they  had  a  sliding  scale,  going  up  to  about 
$5,000  a  year,  and  after  that  they  imposed  a  surtax  of  about  20  per- 
cent, I  think  it  was. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  That  is  an  excess-profits  tax?    [Laughter.] 
Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  McDowell.  What  would  be  Silvermaster's  payment  on  $10,000  ? 
Miss  Bentley.  I  don't  know.  He  was  paying  quite  a  bit,  and  he 
was  paying  certainly  over  $5  a  month.  He  figured  out  the  whole 
amount  of  dues,  and  collected  the  dues  from  his  interior  group,  and 
we  left  it  up  to  him  to  be  sure  that  it  came  out  right,  but  he  was  our 
heaviest  contributor  to  our  fund. 

Mr.  Kankin.  What  was  the  name  of  Gregg? 
Miss  Bentley.  Mr.  Joseph  Gregg. 
Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  know  his  wife  Ruth  ? 
Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  at  this  point  I  would  like  to  intro- 
duce— have  you  completed  naming  the  outside  members? 
Miss  Bentley.  Not  quite. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Are  there  any  others  that  you  have  there? 
Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  Bernard  Redmont. 

Mr.  Stripling.  If  you  have  a  list  there,  you  may  refer  to  it  if  j^ou 
want  to  refresh  yourself  on  it. 

Miss  Bentley.  I  was  trying  to,  it  is  too  hard  to  remember  all.    Ber- 
nard Redmont,  who  worked  for  the  CIA  A,  but  the  information  he 
gave  me  I  would  not  classify  as  b?ing  secret,  because  he  was  in  the 
pi'ess  division,  and  I  don't  believe  tliey  had  anything  that  was  secret. 
Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  we  also  have  certain  information 
here  regarding  Mr.  Remington,  but  the  committee  of  the  Ser.ate  under 
Senator  Ferguson  is  holding  hearings  on  that  matter,  and  so,  if  the 
Chair  desires,  we  will  not  go  into  that  at  this  time. 
The  Chairman.  Without  objection,  it  is  so  ordered. 
Mr,  Stripling.  Are  there  any  other  names? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  don't  believe  so.     I  think  that  just  al)Out  com- 
pletes the  list  of  Government  employees. 
Mr.  MuNDT.  I  would  like  to  ask  a  question. 

The  Chairman.  Before  you  read  anything,  I  just  would  like  to  sug- 
gest to  the  members  of  the  committee  that  we  go  on  in  chronological 
order,  and  that  we  let  the  chief  investigator  ask  as  many  questions 
as  he  has  there,  and  after  that  bring  in  any  other  questions  we  may 
have,  but  if  you  have  got  something  special  here,  why,  go  ahead. 

ISIr.  MuNDT.  This  deals  with  the  employment  record  of  Maurice 
Halperin,  which  I  think  we  should  have  in  the  file,  r*  roni  11)41  to  1946, 
during  that  period,  he  was  Division  Chief  in  the  Office  of  Strategic 
Services,  and  also  in  the  Department  of  State,  in  charge  of  Latin 
American  research  and  analysis.  I  think  that  you  told  us  that  much. 
Also  tliat  he  maintained  under  him  an  active  direction  of  50  staff 
members — specialists,  including  political  scientists,  economists,  geog- 
ra])hers,  historians,  and  anthrojjologists;  research  })]anning  and  super- 
vision of  over  GOO  reports  dealing  with  basic  jioliticai,  economic, 
geographic,  and  militaiy  problems  and  conditions  in  all  I>atin-Amer- 
ican  countries. 

He  has  a  loiig  list  of  employment  with  the  Government,  Mr.  Chair- 
man, and  I  think  it  should  be  placed  in  the  record. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE         .  533 


The  C'JiAiRMAN.  Without  objection,  so  ordered. 
(The  data  on  Maurice  Halperin  is  as  follows:) 


:»lAUi:lCE   IIALPEKIN 

Office  :  Room  1401.  521  Fifth  Avenue,  New  York  17,  N.  Y.     Telephone  MU  2-7197. 
Home:  438  Crown  Street,  Brooklyn  25,  N.  Y.     Telephone:   SL  G-9U58. 

Personal: 

Born  in  Boston,  Mass.,  1906.  A.  B.,  Harvard,  1927;  A.  M.,  University  of 
Oklalioma,  1929.  Doctorate,  Sorbonne  (Paris),  1931,  major:  Letters;  minor: 
International  relations,  economics. 

Family:  Wife,  2  children  (age  11  and  16). 

Employment 

University  teaching  (1927-41)  :  American  lecturer,  Sorbone  (Paris),  1930-31 
(North  American  Civilization),  instructor,  assistant  and  associate  professor  of 
Romance  languages;  University  of  Oklahoma  (specialization:  Latin  American 
civilizatioii.  modern  French  literature  and  civilization)  ;  visiting  professor.  Uni- 
versity of  Florida,  summer,  1941  (resigned  before  assuming  post  to  enter  Govern- 
ment war  service). 

War  service  (1941-46)  :  Division  Chief  in  Office  of  Strategic  Services  (Septem- 
ber 1941-October  1945)  and  in  Department  of  State  (October  1945-June  194G),  in 
charge  of  Latin-American  research  and  analysis. 

Maintained  active  direction  of  staff  of  50  regional  and  functional  specialists, 
including  political  scientists,  economists,  geographers,  historians,  and  anthro- 
pologists;  research  planning  and  supervision  of  over  600  reports  (approximately 
75  of  major  scope)  dealing  with  basic  political,  economic,  geographic,  and  military 
problems  and  conditions  in  all  Latin-American  countries. 

Chairman  of  special  joint  Army-Navy-OSS  intelligence  project,  under  direc- 
tion of  Joint  Chiefs  of  Staff.  Addressed  plenary  session  of  Inter-American 
Defense  Board ;  lectured  at  Military  Government  School,  University  of  Virginia ; 
served  on  several  interagency  committees.  Participated  in  United  Nations  Con- 
ference on  International  Organization,  San  Francisco,  April-]\Iay  1945.    • 

Consultant  to  the  Economic  and  Social  Council  of  the  United  Nations  repre- 
senting the  Coordinating  Board  of  Jev.'ish  Organizations  (American  Jewish  Con- 
ference. Board  of  Deputies  of  British  Jews,  South  African  Jewish  Board  of 
Deputies). 

Concurrently  secretary  of  the  coordinating  board ;  foreign  relations  specialist, 
American  Jewish  Conference. 

As  United  Nations  consultant,  attends  sessions  of  major  United  Nations  bodies  ; 
maintains  liaison  with  the  delegations  of  the  member  states  and  with  officers  of 
United  Nations  Secretariat. 

Prepares  and  submits  memoranda  on  human  rights,  genocide,  status  of 
refugef^s,  and  related  matters  to  various  United  Nations  bodies  and  specialized 
agencies  such  as  IRO  and  UNESCO. 

Presented  oral  statements  on  proposed  international  group  libel  statute  at 
second  session  of  the  Subcommission  on  Freedom  of  Information  and  the  Press, 
Lake  Success,  January  21  and  January  28,  1948. 

Initiated  with  the  Department  of  Public  Information,  and  assisted  in  organ- 
izing the  first  United  Nations  broadcasting  service  in  the  Hebrew  language, 
beamed  to  Palestine. 

As  secretary  of  the  Coordinating  Board  of  JewLsh  Organizations,  organized 
New  York  secretariat,  negotiated  with  United  Nations  for  consultative  status, 
under  provisions  of  article  71  of  the  United  Nations  Charter ;  maintains  secre- 
tariat of  the  board  and  liaison  with  its  American,  British,  and  South  African 
affiliates. 

As  foreign-relations  specialist  of  the  American  Jewish  Conference,  advises 
on  drafting  of  submissions  to  governments  in  matters  relating  to  the  peace 
treaties,  restitution  of  and  indenmification  for  loss  of  life  and  property  in  German- 
dominated  Europe,  the  Palestine  question,  etc. 

Maintains  liaiscm  with  Department  of  State,  including  direct  contact  with 
Seeretai'y  of  State  and  chief  officers  of  the  American  delegation  to  the  United 
Nations.  Represents  conference  at  meetings  of  American  voluntary  organiza- 
tions, including  Citizens  Committee  on  Displaced  Persons,  American  Association 
for  the  United  Nations,  Common  Council  for  American  Unity,  etc. 


534  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

The  Chairman.  Now,  go  ahead,  Mr.  Stripling,  and  keep  going. 

Miss  Bentley.  Excuse  me,  Mr.  Stripling,  there  was  one  more  that 
I  forgot  about,  Michael  Greenberg. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Michael  Greenberg.     Where  was  he  employed  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  He  was  working  for  Mr.  Currie,  and  whatever  Mr. 
Currie 


Mr.  Stripling.  Lauchlin  Currie  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  he  was  a  specialist  on  China. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Was  he  a  Communist? 

Miss  Bentley.  He  was  not  a  member  of  the  party  here  because  he 
was  an  Englishman,  English  born,  and  subsequently,  I  believe,  became 
an  American  citizen.  But  at  that  time  the  Communist  Party  would 
not  accept  aliens — for  what  reason,  I  do  not  know — and,  therefore, 
although  he  had  been  a  member  in  England,  I  understand  he  was 
not  a  member  of  the  American  [Communist]  party  at  that  time. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  They  would  not  accept  aliens.  Of  course,  those  aliens 
could  not  become  American  citizens  under  our  statutes,  and  for  that 
reason  they  did  not  and  do  not  take  them  as  members. 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Rankin.  AVhat  is  his  name  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Michael  Greenberg. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  would  like  to  ask  a  question  or  two. 
In  the  first  place,  I  don't  think  we  ought  to  skip  this  fellow  Reming- 
ton. We  have  long-  since  depended  on  the  other  body — too  long  now — 
to  make  these  investigations.  This  committee  has  had  to  do  such 
investigating,  and  I  am  in  favor  of  going  on  through  with  it. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Rankin,  I  assure  you  that  Mr.  Remington  will 
not  be  skipped. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  do  not  think  we  ought  to  skip  him  today.  Another 
committee  called  for  information  on  people  in  his  category,  and  gave 
information  on  every  one  of  them  except  this  man  Remington.  He 
is  on  the  Federal  pay  roll,  and  I  understand  he  is  on  the  pay  roll,  and 
if  he  is  a  Communist,  I  think  we  ought  show  it  up. 

The  Chairman.  How  long  will  it  take  you  to  take  up  Remington  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  as  you  know,  we  issued  a  subpena 
for  Mr.  Remington  for  July  8,  but  since  the  committee  of  the  Senate 
is  investigating,  I  think  we  should  examine  their  record  before  we 
proceed  with  what  we  have  here. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  our  chief  investigator  is  abso- 
lutely right.  As  long  as  a  committee  of  the  Senate  is  dealing  with  this 
matter,  there  is  no  reason  for  us  to  intrude  ourselves  in  that  particular 
case  and  we  should  let  them  go  ahead  and  dispose  of  it. 

The  Chairman.  Well,  I  agree  with  that,  but  there  is  one  very  special 
reason  why  I  agree  with  Mr.  Rankin.  Mr.  Remington  lived  in  my 
congressional  district,  and  I  don't  want  anybody  to  think  that  for  one 
moment  we  are  not  taking  up  Mr.  Remington  because  he  lives  in  the 
town  next  to  mine.  In  fact,  if  I  had  my  way,  we  would  start  off  with 
Mr.  Reminiiton. 

Now,  how  do  you  feel  about  it  ? 

Do  you  want  to  take  up  Mr.  Remington  now  ? 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  want  to  say  this:  When  Senator  Bilbo  was  dying 
of  cancer,  standing  on  his  feet,  wearing  his  life  away  fighting  this 
so-called  "civil  rights,"  this  Communist  progi'am,  this  element  trumped 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  535 

up  a  persecution  over  there  because  of  his  fight  against  this  commu- 
nistic movement,  and  some  of  the  names  that  have  been  mentioned  here 
today  vrere  mixed  up  in  it. 

Now,  the  Senate,  the  majority  of  the  Members  of  the  Senate,  at  that 
time  participated  in  that  lynching  of  Senator  Bilbo,  and  I  am  not 
willing  to  turn  over  to  a  Senate  committee  the  prerogatives  of  this 
committee  to  investigate  people  on  the  Federal  pay  roll  who  are  known 
to  be  Communists  and  plotting  the  overthrow  of  this  Government.  If 
this  man  Remington  is  a  Communist,  I  think  we  ought  to  bring  the 
facts  out  here.  Communists  picketed  Senator  Bilbo's  residence,  within 
2  blocks  of  the  Senate  Office  Building,  for  months  and  months  and 
months,  and  nothing  was  done  about  it.  I  am  not  willing  at  this  time 
to  abdicate  our  prerogatives  and  pass  them  on  to  a  committee  that 
has  waited  all  these  years  and  let  the  Dies  committee  and  this  Com- 
mittee on  Un-American  Activities  do  the  investigating.  I  think  this 
man  Eemington  should  be  investigated  now.  and  I  want  to  see  it  done. 

The  Chairmax.  Mr.  Nixon. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  we  are  aware  of  the  fact  that 
the  Senate  committee  is  investigating  Mr.  Remington  and  his  con- 
nection with  this  group  at  the  present  time,  and  in  view  of  the  fact 
that  they  are  conducting  that  investigation,  I  think  that  in  the  interest 
of  getting  as  much  information  as  we  can  on  matters  that  are  not  under 
investigation  that  it  would  serve  our  purposes  best  to  go  ahead  with 
other  items  and  other  individuals,  rather  than  Mr.  Remington,  and 
then  come  back  to  him  in  the  event  that  we  have  additional  informa- 
tion that  is  not  brought  out  in  the  Senate  investigation. 

There  are  certainly  no  members  of  this  committee  who  want  to 
leave  any  stone  unturned  in  regard  to  Mr.  Remington  or  any  other 
individual,  but  I  do  think,  in  the  interest  of  getting  as  much  done  as 
possible  in  the  time  that  we  have,  that  it  would  be  a  duplication ;  so 
I  would  suggest  that  the  Chair  rule,  if  possible,  that  we  should  go 
ahead  now  with  other  individuals,  other  than  Mr.  Remington. 

The  Chairman.  Let  me  ask  this  question  of  the  chief  investigator. 
Is  Mr.  Remington  under  subpena  now? 

Mr.  Stripling.  No,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Then,  I  want  a  subpena  issued  for  Mv.  Remington. 

How  many  witnesses  are  there  under  subpena  here  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Sil  verm  aster  is  under  subpena,  Mr.  Kramer  is 
under  subpena,  Mr.  Magdoif  is  under  subpena,  and  there  are  several 
subpenas  which  have  already  been  issued,  but  we  have  not  been  able 
to  serve  them. 

The  Chairman.  All  those  who  have  been  issued,  have  them  served 
just  as  promptly  as  possible,  and  I  will  sign  subpenas  for  all  the  other 
names  of  the  persons  that  were  mentioned  here  today,  who  have  not 
already  been  served,  or  who  we  have  not  subpenaed,  or  have  not  sub- 
penas made  out  for  them,  and  we  will  have  them  all  in,  and  they  can 
all  be  heard,  and  we  will  have  one  right  after  another  in  a  public 
hearing. 

Now,  as  far  as  Remington  goes,  the  Chair  regrets  to  have  to  rule  that 
while  the  present  situation  exists  we  will  not  take  up  the  Remington 
case  right  at  this  time. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Mr.  Chairman,  in  connection  with  your  ruling,  may  I 
suggest  that  the  Remington  employment  file  be  inserted  right  here  the 


53G  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

same  as  all  these  other  people — I  mean  the  same  as  all  these  other 
people  named. 

The  Chairman.  That  is  so  ordered. 

(The  employment  record  referred  to  is  as  follows :) 

WILLIAM    WALTER   REMINGTON 

This  individual  was  born  October  25,  1917,  in  New  York  City.     He  graduated' 
from  tlie  Ridgewood,  N.  J.,  liigh  scliool  in  1934.     He  received  an  A.  B.  degree 
from  Dartmouth  College  in  1939  and  in  1940  he  received  an  M.  A.  degree  from 
Columbia  University.     Remington's  parents,  Frederick  Clement  Remington  and 
Lillian  Sutherland,  were  born  in  Ridgewood,  N.  J. 

From  September  1936  until  April  1937,  Remington  was  employed  by  the  TVA 
at  Knoxville,  Tenn. 

From  April  1937  until  August  1937,  Remington  was  associated  with  the  Workers' 
Education  Committee  in  Knoxville,  Tenn. 

From  May  1940  until  June  1941,  Remington  was  employed  by  the  Natural 
Resources  Planning  Board  in  Washington,  D.  C. 

From  July  1941  through  January  1942,  Remington  was  employed  by  the  OP  A. 

From  February  1942  until  April  1944.  Reniluglion  was  employed  by  the  WPB. 

From  April  1944  until  January  1945,  Remington  was  in  the  Navy  school  at 
Boulder,  Colo.,  from  which  institution  he  received  a  commission  as  ensign. 

From  February  1945  until  June  1945,  Remington  was  attached  to  the  United 
States  Navy  in  Washington,  D.  C,  as  a  Russian  translator. 

From  July  1945  until  November  1945,  Remington  was  employed  in  the  Ameri- 
can Embassy  in  London,  England,  by  the  Economic  Affairs  Mission. 

From  December  1945,  Remington  was  employed  by  the  Office  of  War  Mobiliza- 
tion and  Reconversion. 

Subsequently,  Remington  was  employed  by  the  Economic  Affairs  Committee 
executive  office  of  the  President  and  by  the  Department  of  Commerce. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  in  connection  with  the  people  who 
have  been  mentioned,  who  have  been  named  by  this  witness  as  being 
involved  in  this  espionage  ring,  I  should  like  to  point  out  that  we  had 
Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster  before  a  special  subconnnittee  of  this 
committee  on  May  25  of  this  year.  Now,  Mr.  Silvermaster  had  been 
called  before  the  New  York  grand  jury  and,  I  believe,  you,  Miss  Bent- 
lev,  were  also  a  witness  before  the  New  York  grancl  jurv;  were  you 
not? 

Miss  Bentlet.  Yes ;  that  is  correct. 

Mr.  StriplinCx.  I  would  like  to  read  into  the  record  at  this  point, 
Mr.  Chairman,  the  testimony  of  Mr.  Silvermaster,  and  call  your  atten- 
tion to  the  answers  that  he  gives  when  we  asked  him  if  he  knows  certain 
people.    I  will  read  from  Mr.  Silvermaster's  testimony. 

Mr.  Hebert.  May  I,  before  Mr.  Stripling  does  that,  and  for  the  sake 
of  orderly  procedure,  inquire  if  you  do  not  think  that  these  parts  of 
the  testimony  that  a  man  has  given  before — that  he  should  be  con- 
fronted with  that  testimony  in  open  hearing  ? 

Mr.  Striixing.  As  a  witness? 

Mr.  Hebert.  As  a  witness. 

Mr.  Stripling.  This  is  testimony  before  our  committee  that  I  am 
reading. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  recognize  that.  But  if  you  go  into  what  Mr.  Silver- 
master  testified  in  executive  session  here,  would  that  have  any  bear- 
ing on  what  the  witness  testified  about  Silvermaster  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  That  ties  right  in. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  am  sure  Mr.  Stripling  knows  what  I  have  in  mind, 
and  I  want  to  avoid  that.  I  want  to  avoid  that  if  that  is  going  to  be 
brought  into  it. 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  537 

Mr.  STRirLiNG.  I  am  not  going  to  ask  the  witness  any  questions 
based  on  what  I  shall  read. 

Mr.  McDow^ELL.  You  are  not  going  to  read  all  the  testimony. 

Mr.  Stripling.  No. 

Mr.  Kankin.  Mr.  Chairman,  right  on  that  point,  we  are  not  sup- 
posed to  bring  all  these  men  who  are  charged  with  treason  or  con- 
spiring to  overthrow  this  Government  before  this  committee.  This  is 
a  form  of  grand  jury  by  a  committee  of  the  House  of  Representatives. 
No  grand  jury  ever  calls  a  defendant.  You  have  not  had  a  single 
Communist,  with  the  exception  of  a,  little  group  consisting  of  William 
Z.  Foster  and  Ben  Davis,  that  crowd,  to  admit  before  the  committee 
that  they  were  Communists,  but,  as  a  rule,  they  have  refused  to  testify. 

Now,  we  don't  have  to  bring  them  in  here.  If  this  witness  has  in- 
formation that  this  man  Remington  or  these  other  men  are  Commu- 
nists, we  have  a  right  to  ask  those  questions  now. 

The  Chairman.  Just  a  minute.  We  want  to  hear  these  people; 
we  have  got  some  new  names  today  and  consequently  we  want  to  have 
them  in  as  witnesses,  just  as  we  have  had  Silvermaster  and  these  others 
in  executive  sesssion.  We  might  as  well,  now  that  it  has  gotten  this 
far  in  the  open — we  might  as  well  have  the  whole  thing  in  the  open. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  want  to  make  this  observation.  I  want  to  disagree 
with  my  colleague  from  Mississippi  that  this  is  a  grand-jury  inves- 
tigation. If  anybody  puts  in  jeopardy  an  individual  who  is  charged 
with  being  a  Communist,  I  think,  in  fairness,  that  this  individual 
should  be  allowed  his  day  in  court  here  in  public  hearing  as  well. 
Now,  if  you  were  in  a  secret  session  or  in  executive  session,  and  these 
names  were  used,  then  we  owe  them  no  obligation,  but  the  minute 
that  we  allow  a  witness  on  the  stand  to  mention  any  individual,  that 
individual  has  a  right  to  come  before  this  committee  and  have  his  day 
in  court,  and  every  man  or  woman  mentioned  here  this  morning  has 
a  right  to  be  subpenaed  to  come  here. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Hebert,  I  will  promise  you  that  they  will  have 
_  their  day  in  court. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Nobody  has  asked  to  come  here. 

The  Chairman.  They  will  have  their  day  in  court. 

Mr.  Rankin.  It  certainly  is  putting  the  cart  before  the  horse  when 
you  have  the  witness  before  you  who  has  the  testimony. 

The  Chairman.  Now,  what  about  this  man  Silvermaster?  What 
do  you  want  to  read  from  the  record  ? 

]Mr.  Stripling.  I  want  to  read  certain  excerpts  of  his  testimony 
in  the  record  at  this  time. 

The  Chairman.  You  know  what  part  Mr.  Hebert  does  not  want? 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  am  fully  aware  of  that. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Before  we  go  into  that,  I  am  in  agreement  with  the 
position  taken  by  Mr.  Mundt  and  Mr.  Nixon. 

Mr.  Stripling.  As  I  say,  Mr.  Chairman,  Silvermaster  testified  on 
May  25, 1948-  before  a  subcommittee  of  this  committee.  He  was  asked 
this  question : 

Ml'.  Stripling.  Are  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Silvermaster  replied : 

I  beg  your  pardon  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Are  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 
Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question,  sir,  on  the  grounds  stated 
previously. 


538  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

The  grounds  stated  previously,  Mr.  Chairman,  are : 

I  refuse  to  answer  the  question  on  the  grounds  that  I  might  incriminate  myself. 

The  testimony  continues : 

Do  you  know  Victor  Perlo? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  ret'usc  to  answer  this  question  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Russell  asked  him  ? 

Do  you  know  Harry  MagdofE? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  refuso  to  answer  this  question,  sir,  on  the  same  grounds. 
Mr.  Russell.  William  Walter  Remington? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  rcfusc  to  answer  this  question  on  the  same  grounds,  sir. 
Mr.  Russell.  Joseph  Gregg? 

IMr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  rcfuse  to  answer  the  question,  same  grounds. 
Ml-.  Russell.    Ruth  Gregg? 
Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  rcfuse  to  answer. 
Mr.  Russell.  John  Abt? 
Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  rcfuse  to  answer,  sir. 
Mr.  Russell.  Charles  Kramer? 
Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  rcfusc  to  answer,  sir. 
Mr.  Russell.  Edward  J.  Fitzgerald? 
Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  rcfusc  to  answer  the  question. 
Mv.  Russell.  Louise  Bransten? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  rcfusc  to  answer  this  question  on  the  same  grounds,  sir. 
Mr.  Russell.   Donald  Niven  Wheeler? 
•     Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds. 
Mr.  RussELL.  Harry  Dexter  White? 

Mr.  SiL\'ERMASTER.  I  refusc  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds. 
Mr.  Russell.  Maurice  Halperin? 
Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  have  to  refuse  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Russell,  still  questioning  the  witness,  asked : 

What  was  your  address  when  you  resided  in  Washington,  D.  C? 
Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  5-515  Thirtieth  Street. 

Mr.  Russell.  Have  any  of  the  persons  whom  I  have  named  ever  visited  you 
at  that  address? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  same  grounds,  sir. 

I  should  now  like  to  read  into  the  record  the  testimony  of  Mr.  Charles 
Kramer,  who  testified  before  this  committee  on  July  2,  1948,  in  execu-, 
tive  session, 

]\lr.  Nixon.  One  moment  there.  Do  I  understand  that  the  witness 
refused  to  answer  questions  concerning  the  various  people  that  you 
named  in  this  testimony  on  the  grounds  that  he  might  incriminate 
himself  ? 

Mr,  Stripling.  He  refused  to  say  whether  or  not  he  knew  these  par- 
ticular people,  most  of  whom  this  witness  has  named  and  involved  in 
this  espionage  ring,  on  the  ground  that  he  might  incriminate  himself, 
and  he  was  supposed  to  be  the  head,  according  to  her  testimony — the 
head  of  this  group  in  Washington. 

Mr.  Kramer  testified  that  he  also  appeared  before  the  grand  jury  in 
New  York.     He  was  asked  by  Mr.  Russell : 

Were  you  acquainted  at  any  time  during  your  life  with  an  individual  named 
Harold  Ware,  who  is  now  deceased? 

Mr.  Kramer.  That  is  a  question  that  was  put  to  me  before  the  grand  jury,  and 
I  made  the  answer  then,  I  make  the  answer  now,  that  I  must  decline  to  answer 
,  on  the  grounds  that  this  might  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Russell  asked  the  witness : 

Are  you  now  or  have  you  ever  been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  of  the 
United  States? 
Mr.  Kramer.  The  same  answer  on  the  same  grounds  to  that  question. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  539 

Mr.  RrssELL.  Mr.  Kramer,  did  you  ever  confer  with  Harold  Ware  regarding 
the  formation  of  Communi.st  cells  in  Government  agencies  in  the  District  of 
ColumhiaV 

Mr.  Kramer.  The  same  answer  to  that  question. 

Mr.  Russell.  Are  you  acquainted  with  Kuth  Gregg? 

Mr.  Kra:mer.  No. 

Mr.  Russell.  Are  you  acquainted  with  Daniel  Melcher? 

JMr.  Kramer.  No. 

Mr.  Russell.  Are  you  acquainted  with  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster? 

Mr.  Kramer.  Tlie  .same  answer  to  that  question. 

Mr.  Russell.  Have  you  ever  visited  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster? 

Mr.  Kramer.  The  same  answer. 

Mr.  Russell.  Did  you  ever  request  him  to  reproduce  any  documents  for  you 
through  means  of  certain  photographic  equipment  which  Mr.  Silvermaster  had 
in  his  possession? 

Mr.  Kramer.  The  same  answer  to  that  question. 

He  was  then  asked.  Mr.  Chairman,  was  he  acquainted  with  or  did 
he  know  certain  individuals,  to  which  he  answered  the  question  if  he 
did  or  did  not  know.  I  see  no  point  in  bringing  their  names  into  this 
particular  hearing. 

But  later  he  was  asked  whether  or  not  he  knew  certain  people  whom 
the  witness  has  named  here  today,  and  he  refused  to  answer  on  the 
grounds  of  self-incrimination. 

Miss  Bentley,  do  you  know  James  Roy  Newman  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No. 

Mr.  Rankix.  Mr.  Chairman,  while  Mr.  Stripling  is  conferring,  I 
would  like  to  ask  the  witness  a  question  about  this  man  Currie. 

oNIiss  Bextley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Rankix.  Lauchlin  Currie  was  one  of  the  names  in  the  Congres- 
sional Directory  for  1943,  and  it  shows  that  he  was  one  of  the  adminis- 
trative assistants  in  the  White  House.  Is  that  the  man  you  are  talking 
about  'i 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  right ;  that  is  the  man. 

Mr.  Raxkix.  Another  administrative  assistant  was  William  H. 
McReynolds;  others  were  Lowell  Mellett  and  David  K.  Niles.  They 
all  seemed  to  hold  a  coordinate  position. 

Do  you  know  anj'thing  about  the  records  of  these  other  men  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  No ;  I  am  sorry ;  only  what  I  have  read  in  the  news- 
papers or  magazines. 

Mr.  Mt'XDT.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  would  like  to  make  an  observation. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Mundt. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  I  think  it  would  be  interesting  for  a  matter  of  record 
for  you  to  tell  us  the  actual  steps  you  took  by  which  you  changed  from 
being  simply  a  member  of  the  Joint  Anti-Fascist  Refugee  Committee 
and  became  an  actual  Communist.  You  said  that  a  lady,  and  a  former 
professor  at  Columbia  University  under  whom  I  am  ashamed  to  say 
I  once  studied  as  a  student  at  Columbia,  introduced  3'ou  to  communism. 

Miss  Bextley.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  What  were  the  overt  steps  you  took  by  which  you  be- 
came a  Communist  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  am  afraid  that  is  an  awfully  difficult  question  to 
ansAver.  Tliinking  back  on  it,  it  is  rather  hard  to  remember  my  state 
of  mind  at  that  particular  moment.  As  I  said,  I  was  quite  infuriated 
with  what  I  liad  learned  about  fascism  in  Italy,  and  the  only  people 
who  would  listen  to  me  were  the  people  in  the  American  League 
Against  War  and  Fascism,  and,  as  I  said,  I  gradually  got  into  that,  and 


540  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

gTadually  there  I  met  Communists,  both  in  Columbia  and  downtown, 
and  gradually  my  ideas  began  to  change.  I  suppose,  in  a  vray,  I  was 
a  very  confused  liberal,  and,  unfortunately,  we  confused  liberals  have 
a  tendency  to  look  for  guidance  some  place  and  a  tendency  to  admire 
efficient  people  who  know  where  they  are  going  and  seem  to  be  doing 
a  good  job  in  the  right  direction, 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Did  you  finally  take  an  oath  of  allegiance  or  sign  a 
document,  or  something  of  that  kind  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No  ;  I  did  not. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  simply  started  paying  your  dues  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  simply  started  paying  dues ;  yes. 

Mr.  IMuNDT.  To  the  Communist  Party? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  that  is  correct. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  don't  think  you  told  us  this  morning,  either,  how  you 
established  your  first  contact  with  Mr.  Silvermaster.  When  you  came 
down  here  as  a  courier,  how^  did  you  establish  your  first  contact  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Mr.  Silvermaster  came  to  New  York  to  see  Mr.  Golos 
at  the  behest  of  Earl  Browder,  and  after  Mr.  Golos  had  had  a  prelimi- 
nary meeting  with  Mr.  Silvermaster,  he  came  back  to  me  and  said  that 
Mr.  Silvermaster  was  remaining  2  or  3  days,  and  that  arrangements 
had  been  made  for  me  to  go  to  Washington — to  go  directly  to  the 
Silvermaster  house  and  make  the  acquaintance  of  Mrs.  Helen  Silver- 
master  so  that  they  would  know  who  I  was  and  realize  that  I  was  the 
person  who  was  going  to  make  the  contacts  in  the  future,  and  then 
later  on 

Mr.  MuNDT.  What  did  you  tell  her  at  that  time  to  identify  yourself 
as  the  specific  person  who  was  to  get  the  information  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  was  told  to  say  I  was  Helen  and  I  was  to  tell  her 
that  her  husband  had  arranged  for  me  to  come  down.  I  v/ent  to  her 
house,  made  her  acquaintance,  and  we  talked  about  various  things, 
and  it  was  arranged  that  I  would  come  down  every  week  and  visit 
them. 

Mr.  IMuNDT.  I  have  one  other  question.  Miss  Bentley.  I  think — I 
take  it  you  are  no  longer  a  Communist  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  When  did  you  quit  the  party,  and  why  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  actually  stopped  paying  dues  to  the  party  in  July 
of  1944,  but  it  took  me  about  a  year  to  more  or  less  get  it  out  of  my 
system  and  get  to  the  point  where  I  could  get  in  the  frame  of  mind 
of  going  to  the  authorities  about  it.  As  to' why:  Having  worked 
with  Mr.  Golos,  whom  I  took  to  be  a  great  idealist,  a  man  who  was 
working  for  what  I  considered  to  be  the  betterment  of  the  world,  I 
had  been  terrifically  shielded  from  the  realities  behind  this  thing, 
and  when  he  died  I  was  thrown  in  direct  contact  with  Kussians  who 
had  just  come  over  from  Eussia — at  least  as  I  understand  it. 

They  thought  that  I  was  much  more  sophisticated  than  I  was. 

They  thought  that  I  knew  what  was  going  on,  and  unfortunately 
they  landed  on  me  with  both  feet,  made  no  bones  of  the  fact  that  they 
had  contempt  for  American  Communists  with  their  vague  idealism, 
no  bones  of  the  fact  that  they  were  using  the  American  Communist 
Party  as  a  recruitment  for  espionage,  and,  in  general,  they  were  about 
the  cheapest  type  of  person  I  have  ever  seen — the  gangster  type. 
Added  to  which  I  had  never  known  anyone  high  up  in  the  American 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  541 

party  before.  But  at  Mr.  Golos'  death,  I  was  thrown  in  contact  with 
BroM'der.  Up  to  then,  I  had  greatly  admired  Browder.  I  was  like  a 
lot  of  people  in  the  American  Communist  Party,  revered  him  as  a 
wonderful  leader  and  all,  and  it  was  quite  a  shock  to  find  that  when 
I  went  to  him  for  help,  because  I  did  not  like  this  set-up,  and  I  began 
to  realize  what  it  was,  and  I  wanted  his  help  in  getting  the  people 
that  I  was  taking  care  of  out  of  it,  he  hemmed  and  hawed,  and  rather 
pretended  to  take  my  side,  I  think,  probably  to  protect  himself.  I 
think  he  did  not  like  getting  mixed  up  in  espionage,  and  finally 
Moscow  pulled  the  strings,  and  he  just  fell  out  from  underneath  me 
and  told  me  that  there  was  nothing  that  he  could  do.  He  made  it 
painfully  obvious  just  what  was  going  on. 

JNIr.  MuNDT.  Shortly  after  that  it  was  that  you  quit  paying  the 
dues  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  immediately  quit  paying  my  dues.  Then  came 
the  period  of  wanting  to  know  what  to  do  about  it.  Then  came  the 
period  in  trying  to  see  if  I  could  get  any  of  these  people  out  without 
endangering  m.yself.  There  came  the  period  of  trying  to  see  what 
could  be  done  there,  and  then  I  finally  realized  that  I  was  one  person 
fighting  a  vast  machine.  There  was  nothing  I  could  do.  I  could 
eitlier  walk  out  and  forget  it  had  happened,  or  I  could  go  to  the 
agency  that  was  handling  counterespionaire,  the  FBI,  and  it  took  me 
quite  a  while  to  make  the  decision,  and  I  finally  walked  in  there. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  You  went  to  the  FBI,  then,  about  1945  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  August  1945 ;  yes. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  With  this  information? 

Miss  Bextley.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  What  were  you  doing  during  the  year  after  you  quit — 
during  that  interim? 

Miss  Bextley.  I  continued  with  the  Russians  until  I  had  handed 
over  the  contact  or  else  had  taken — in  other  words,  had  settled  up 
the  contact.  Either  I  had  told  the  Russians  they  were  no  good,  and 
there  Avas  no  use  continuing  or  had  turned  them  over,  but  I  was  still 
in  contact  witli  the  Russians.  They  wanted  to  put  me  on  ice  for  6 
months  or  a  year.  They  said  that  Golos  had  conducted  his  activities 
so  badly  that  there  were  leaks  here  and  there,  and  that  I  was  in 
dangerous  position,  so  would  I  kindly  go  out  of  circulation  as  far 
as  those  activities  were  concerned  for  6  months  or  a  year.  Then, 
they  proposed  to  set  me  up  in  another  little  organization,  either  in 
a  travel  business  or  what  not,  in  some  large  town,  and  they  would  give 
me  other  Government  contacts  to  take  over. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Who  do  you  mean  "they"  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  The  Russians. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Can  you  name  those  Russians  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  The  only  Russian  whose  real  name  I  know  was  the 
first  secretary  of  the  Russian  Embassy,  and  I  did  ^ot  know  that  until 
much  later  on  after  I  had  ceased  seeing  him. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  He  talked  with  you  personally  in  trying  to  induce 
you  to  continue  this  espionage? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  because  after  they  had  tried  to  bribe  me,  and 
had  tried  all  sorts  of  tricks  on  me,  they  finally  brought  in  their  highest 
man  to  see  what  he  could  do. 

Mr.  Mundt.  What  was  this  man's  name? 

Miss  Bentley.  Anatol  Gromov. 


542  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Where  would  lie  contact  you  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  about  half  the  time  I  saw  him  in  Washing-' 
ton,  the  other  half  of  the  time  he  came  to  New  York. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Would  you  see  him  in  the  Russian  Embassy  here  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Where  would  you  see  him  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  In  inconspicuous  places.  I  met  him  at  Herzog's, 
down  on  the  waterfront  here. 

Mr.  McDowell.  That  is  a  restaurant ;  is  it  not  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes.  I  met  him  in  a  drug  store  on  M  Street  and 
Wisconsin  in  Georgetown.  I  met  him  in  a  movie  house  on  Broadway 
at  about  Broadway  and  One  Hundred  and  Third  Street — various  spots. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  What  have  you  been  doing  since  1945  ? 

Have  you  been  employed  since,  during  the  period  of  the  last  3 
years  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  was  asked  to  continue  on  with  tlie  U.  S.  Service 
and  Shipping  Corp.,  because  it  was  feared  that  that  possibly  might 
be  a  danger  spot,  a  covering-up  agency,  and  I  was  asked  to  continue 
on  in  there  until  either  something  happened  or  the  business  broke 
its  contract  and  liquidated  itself,  which  it  proceeded  to  do  in  Feb- 
1  uary  of  1946. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Were  you  asked  by  the  FBI  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  1947.     Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  And  from  1946  on,  what  have  you  been  doing? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  am  sorry ;  1947. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Have  you  had  any  employment  since  then  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  I  walked  out  of  the  whole  thing  and,  of  course, 
could  not  use  any  business  contacts  I  had  made,  so  I  went  into  an 
employment  agency  and  got  myself  a  position  as  a  secretary. 

Mr.  Mundt.  That  is  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  McDowell. 

Mr.  McDowell.  I  have  only  one  or  two  questions. 

You  feel  that  the  American  Communists  have  been  made  suckers 
of  by  the  Russians  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  With  the  exception  of  that  small  group  of  people 
who  actually  run  the  American  Party,  I  would  say  that  the  vast 
majority  of  the  rank-and-file  people  in  the  Communist  Party  are; 
yes. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Suckers? 

Miss  Bentley.  Right. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Don't  you  think,  perhaps,  that  some  Of  America's 
leading  Communists  are  leading  the  Communist  cause  because  it  pays 
them  to  do  that?  They  get  pietty  good  salaries.  I  noticed  you  re- 
ferred awhile  ago  to  Earl  Browder  going  to  a  sunnner  home.  These 
people  are  proletariat  and  are  not  supposed  to  have  summer  homes. 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  he  also  had  a  car  with  a  private  chauffeur. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Struggling  for  the  working  class. 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  right.  I  think  it  is  partly  that  money;  I 
think  for  a  lot  of  them — and  I  think  it  applies  particularly  to  Brow- 
der— they  have  a  particular  lust  for  jiower.  I  mean  they  are  show- 
offs;  they  love  to  feel  that  sense  of  power  that  they  have. 

Mr.  McDowell.  I  hope  all  the  foggy-minded  liberals  in  America 
who  are  i)laying  with  this  thing  read  this  evidence. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  543 

I  liave  no  further  questions. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Rankin  ^ 

Mr.  Raxkin.  What  year  did  you  say  vou  quit  the  Communist 
Party  ^ 

Miss  Bentley.  I  stopped  paying  dues  in  July  of  1944. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  said  that  you  did  not  get  any  satisfaction  out 
of  Earl  Browder  at  that  time? 

Miss  Bentley.  No. 

Mr.  Rankin.  It  was  the  next  year,  was  it  not,  that  you  understand 
that  Duclos,  the  leader  of  the  Comintern  in  Paris,  wrote  the  letter 
removing  Earl  Browder  and  putting  William  Z.  Foster  in  his  place? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  I  think  that  was  in  May  of  1945.  I  am  not 
too  sure  of  the  date  on  it,  but  it  was  some  time  along  in  there.  I  think 
he  was  actually  deposed  in  July  of  1945.  I  think  the  final  session  that 
put  him  out  was  in  July  of  1945. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  wonder  if  that  had  any  bearing  on  his  reluctance 
to  talk  with  you  at  that  time  ?  Did  he  know  that  this  change  would 
happen? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  I  don't  believe  so.  because  that  was  almost  a 
year  previous  to  that.    I  rather  doubt  it. 

jVIr.  Rankin.  You  say  that  the  majoiity  of  the  Communists  in  this 
country  were  born  in  foreign  countries  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  I  did  not,  because  I  have  no  way  of  knowing. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Well,  a  great  leader  testified  before  this  committee 
the  other  day — a  short  time  ago — Mr.  Bullitt,  that  60  percent  of  the 
members  of  the  Communist  Party  in  this  country  were  foreign  born. 
Would  you  say  that  that  estimate  is  too  large? 

Miss  Bentley.  Frankly.  Mr.  Congressman,  I  do  not  know,  because 
I  was  not  too  closely  connected  with  the  top  of  the  party  that  would 
count  tliose  statistics.    I  do  not  actually  know  that. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  knew  the  Communist  Party  was  dedicated  to  the 
destruction  of  this  Government,  did  you  not? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  did  not  at  the  time  I  was  in  it.  That  was  one  of 
the  reasons  I  got  out. 

Mr.  Rankin.  When  you  found  that  out,  you  quit.  Yoti  learned  that 
the  Communist  Party  was  plotting  the  overthrow  of  this  Government? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  would  say  that  was  correct;  yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  And  that  that  was  one  of  the  chief  planks — we  will 
say  of  the  platform — or  one  of  the  chief  elements  in  their  program? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  don't  know  if  it  is  in  their  open  program,  but  it 
certainly  is  in  their  basic  secret  program ;  yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  am  not  talking  about  the  open  program,  because 
we  do  not  get  that,  you  understand.  Now,  you  knew  also  that  it  was 
dedicated  to  the  destruction  of  what  they  called  the  capitalistic  sys- 
tem— that  is,  the  right  to  own  private  property  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  would  be  correct,  yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  learned  that  in  Russia  they  have  taken  over  the 
land  and  that  private  enterprise  has  been  reduced  and  that  the  people 
of  Russia  have  been  reduced  to  the  status  of  slaves.  You  found  that 
out  before  you  quit  them ;  is  tliat  true  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  do  not  know  that  I  exactly  found  it  out;  but  judg- 
ing by  the  Russians  with  whom  I  dealt,  it  would  be  extremely  plausi- 
ble ;  yes. 


544  '  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr,  Rankin.  You  know  it  now,  do  you  not? 

Miss  Bentley,  I  certainly  do. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  know  now  that  every  Russian  farmer  is  a  slave 
of  some  commissar? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Rankin.  He  is  told  where  he  shall  live,  what  kind  of  work  he 
shall  do,  and  whether  or  not  he  shall  move.  That  is  correct,  is  it 
not? 

Miss  Bentley,  Yes 

Mr.  Rankin.  In  other  words,  it  is  nothing  but  a  system  of  abject 
slavery,  dominated  by  a  racial  minority  that  has  seized  control,  as 
members  of  the  Politburo ;  is  that  correct  ? 

Miss  Bentley,  I  am  not  clear  about  the  racial  minority, 

Mr.  Rankin,  I  am.  Now,  I  do  not  know  how  far  I  am  to  go ;  but 
as  a  creative  member  of  this  committee,  I  want  to  ask  you  about  this 
man  William  W.  Remington.     You  say  he  was  a  Communist? 

The  Chairman.  That  question  is  overruled.  The  committee  has 
decided  that  the  Remington  testimony  will  not  be  brought  up  at  this 
time,  in  deference  to  the  Senate  committee. 

Mr,  Rankin.  The  Chair  has  no  right  to  block  the  investigation  of 
this  man  who  is  in  this  key  position. 

The  Chairman,  I  am  not  blocking  any  investigations,  and  you 
know  how  to  overrule  the  Chair  if  you  want  to  overrule  the  Chair, 
and  all  you  have  to  do  is  make  a  motion, 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  want  to  call  attention  to  that  man  as  being  a  director 
of  export  program,  of  the  staff  of  the  Bureau  of  Foreign  and  Domestic 
Commerce.  If  he  is  in  this  key  position  and  is  a  Communist,  belong- 
ing to  an  organization  dedicated  to  the  overthrow  of  this  Government, 
it  is  the  duty  of  this  committee  to  investigate  that. 

The  Chairman,  Do  not  think  for  a  moment  that  we  have  not  inves- 
tigated it.  We  have  investigated  this  man  Remington  thoroughly. 
The  only  thing  that  is  embarrassing  to  me  is  that  Remington  comes 
from  my  district. 

Mr,  Rankin,  I  was  afraid  of  that. 

The  Chairman.  Then  we  will  bring  out  the  Remington  testimony 
and  bring  it  out  right  here,  because  we  are  not  going  to  have  a  charge 
against  me  about  covering  it  up. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Then  I  will  bring  out  the  Remin^on  testimony. 

Mr.  McDowell.  I  object ;  and  I  believe  the  majority  of  the  mem- 
bers object,  in  deference  to  a  Senate  committee. 

The  Chairman.  I  do  not  want  Mr.  Rankin  or  anybody  else  to  make 
any  kind  of  a  remark,  or  intimate  that  the  reason  that  we  are  not 
bringing  out  Remington  is  that  because  he  comes  from  my  congres- 
sional district  we  are  covei'ing  him  up. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  did  not  say  that. 

The  Chairman.  Well,  you  came  pretty  close  to  saying  that. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  that  anybody  who  knows  your 
record  in  the  Un-American  Activities  Committee  is  not  going  to  assume 
even  such  a  charge,  and  I  think  your  ruling  is  perfectly  sound ;  but  to 
make  it  emphatic,  I  move  that  it  be  the  sense  of  this  committee  that 
we  do  not  discuss  the  Remington  case — the  Remington  testimony — 
at  this  time,  by  virtue  of  the  fact  that  the  Senate  is  presently  engaged 
in  such  investigation. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  545 

Mr.  McDowell.  I  second  the  motion. 

Mr.  Hebekt.  I  want  to  be  heard  on  the  motion.  It  was  my  under- 
standing, wlien  I  suggested  that  the  Remington  employment  file  be 
put  in  at  this  time,  that  the  Remington  matter  would  be  treated  in  the 
same  way  in  which  the  names  of  every  other  person  mentioned  here 
this  morning  would  be  treated,  and  that  is  still  my  understanding.  If 
it  is  the  purpose  of  Mr.  INIundt  to  move  that  this  witness  cannot  be 
asked  concerning  Remington,  then,  of  course,  I  cannot  support  the 
motion. 

Mr.  jMi^NDT.  I  said  "at  this  time." 

]Mr.  Hebert.  In  other  words,  with  all  due  deference  to  the  Senate, 
and  the  knowledge  that  they  have  Mr.  Remington  before  them,  I  think 
we  have  possession  of  this  witness  at  this  time;  and  if  she  has  any 
knowledge  of  Remington  to  submit,  or  John  Brown,  or  Jones  or 
Smith,  or  anybody  else,  she  should  be  permitted  to  answer  questions 
concerning  that. 

The  CHAiRaiAN.  Let  me  ask  this  question  of  the  committee :  When 
will  it  be  possible  for  the  committee  to  sit  and  hear  Remington  as  a 
witness  ? 

Mr.  Rankin.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  will  be  glad  any  time  after  we  get 
through  investigating  to  see  whether  or  not  Mr.  Remington  is  a  Com- 
munist,'and  if  so,  if  he  is  still  on  the  pay  roll  of  the  Federal  Govern- 
ment and  in  the  key  position  where  he  can  render  great  injury  to  the 
American  Government;  then  if  he  wants  to  come  and  testify,  all 
right.  But  I  think,  and  I  know,  that  I  am  not  for  digging  a  storm 
cellar  for  Remington  at  this  point. 

The  CHAiR:\rAN.  I  get  word  that  Remington  is  informed  by  the 
Senate  committee  that  he  will  be  recalled  for  testimony  before  that 
committee  on  Monday.  Is  it  agreeable  to  the  committee  members  to 
have  Remington  here  on  Tuesday  ? 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  want  to  hear  this  witness  before  we  hear  Remington. 

Mr.  Hebert.  The  fact  that  Mr.  Remington  is  to  appear  before  us 
does  not  have  any  bearing  on  the  present  situation,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  Yes;  it  has.  Not  only  Remington,  but  all  these 
other  names  that  were  mentioned  are  such  that  it  is  a  question  of 
association.  You  will  find  that  these  people  were  not  only  asso- 
ciating but  they  were  associating  with  others  that  we  have  had  men- 
tioned— that  this  committee  has  mentioned  from  time  to  time;  and 
before  we  get  through  we  will  find  that  these  others,  and  these  people, 
are  all  in  the  same  category.  They  have  all  been  active  in  espionage ; 
and  some  of  them  about  whom  we  are  going  to  have  the  public  hear- 
ings were  active  unknowingly,  we  will  say,  or  innocent,  but  they 
have  been  active,  and  they  have  been  guilty  of  association. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  agree  with  that;  but  the  point  I  make,  Mr.  Chair- 
man, is  that  we  cannot  question  Remington  or  probe  into  Remington's 
activities  as  to  what  this  witness  knows  of  her  association  with  Rem- 
ington unless  we  have  this  witness  place  into  the  record  at  this  point 
what  her  association  with  Remington  is. 

The  Chairman.  All  right ;  we  will  recess  for  10  minutes,  and  the 
committee  will  go  into  executive  session. 

(Whereupon,  the  committee  retired  into  executive  session,  after 
which  the  following  was  had  in  open  session :) 

The  Chairman.  The  committee  will  come  to  order. 

80408—48 4 


546  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Kankin.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  was  questioning  the  witness  awhile 
ago  when  the  meeting  broke  up. 

The  Chairman.  I  believe,  Mr.  Kankin,  there  was  a  motion.  Will 
you  repeat  your  motion,  Mr.  Mundt  ? 

Mr.  Mundt.  My  motion  was,  Mr.  Chairman,  that  the  committee 
do  not  go  into  the  Remington  case  at  this  time  because  the  Senate  is 
now  exploring  that  case. 

Mr.  McDowell.  I  second  the  motion. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  want  to  be  heard  on  the  motion. 

The  Chairman.  You  have  heard  the  motion  duly  seconded.  Is 
there  any  discussion?     Mr.  Rankin. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Yes;  I  want  to  be  heard.  The  witness  testifying  has 
information  which  she  has  presented  to  the  committee  which  is  very 
alarming.  I  never  saw  her  before,  but  the  testimony  that  she  is 
giving  here  has  been  most  astounding.  She  has  information,  I  under- 
stand, that  this  man  Remington  is  a  Communist.  He  is  now  in  the 
Bureau  of  Foreign-  and  Domestic  Commerce,  Director  of  the  export 
program  staff.  I  don't  know  how  many  people  he  has  under  him. 
All  I  want  to  do  is  to  ask  the  witness  some  questions  about  this  man 
Remington's  being  a  Communist,  wdiat  she  knows  about  his  being  a 
Communist,  and  to  bring  out  the  same  facts  with  reference  to  him 
that  you  have  brought  out  with  reference  to  this  man  Currie,  who 
used  to  be  one  of  the  assistants  in  the  White  House,  and  these  other 
individuals.     I  want  to  try  to  get  that  infornuition. 

To  try  to  block  this  investigation  at  this  time,  when  this  may  be 
the  only  opportunity  that  we  may  have  to  question  this  witness,  is 
certainly  back-pedaling  so  far  as  the  record  of  this  committee  is  con- 
cerned. Her  testimony  has  shown  an  interlocking  with  the  Commu- 
nist International  of  people  on  the  Federal  pay  roll.  Some  of  them 
are  in  key  positions  and  evidently  in  sympathy  with  their  program 
to  wreck  this  Government.  To  say  that  you  are  going  to  refuse  to 
investigate — in  the  vague  hope  that  a  Senate  committee  will  do  your 
work  for  you — to  me,  that  is  pathetic. 

During  all  the  years  that  the  Dies  committee  and  this  Committee  on 
Un-American  Activities  have  been  investigating  and  exposing  these 
Reds,  this  is  the  first  time  so  far  as  I  know  that  any  investigation  has 
been  made  by  a  Senate  committee,  and  so  far  as  I  am  concerned,  I  am 
going  to  vote  against  the  motion.  To  try  to  close  the  lips  of  this  wit- 
]iess  on  this  man  Remington,  and  to  ])revent  the  members  of  this  com- 
mittee from  asking  questions  about  him  and  his  afliliation  with  the 
Communist  Party — if  he  is  in  the  position  that  she  has  described  these 
other  Communists,  he  is  dangerous,  I  mean,  if  he  has  the  same  attitude 
that  they  had,  and  then  he  is  dangerous  to  the  welfare  of  the  Govern- 
ment and  ought  to  be  removed. 

I  am  not  wnlling  to  abdicate  my  prerogatives  to  make  these  investi- 
gations merely  because  the  Senate  committee  proposes  to  make  a  simi- 
lar investigation,  seeing  that  they  have  gone  on  all  these  years  without 
taking  such  a  step. 

Now,  Mr.  Chairman,  I  am  going  to  vote  against  the  motion.  I 
only  regret  that  all  the  othei-  minority  members  are  not  here  to  join  us. 

The  Chairman.  Are  there  any  other  remarks? 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  am  waiting  for  a  ruling  of  the  committee.  If  you 
want  to  whitewash  this  man  or  dig  him  a  storm  cellar,  I  think  it  is  an 
outrage,  and  I  will  take  it  before  the  House  at  the  proper  time. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  547 

The  CiiAiKMAX.  Does  any  other  member  desire  to  be  heard? 

Mr.  McDowell.  I  desire  to  be  lieard.  With  all  due  respect  to  the 
gentleman  from  Mississippi,  I  think  he  has  entirely  misinterpreted 
the  motion  and  the  desire  behind  the  motion.  There  is  no  intent,  so 
far  as  I  am  concerned,  or  I  doubt  that  the  other  members  of  the  com- 
mittee have  any — there  is  no  eifort  at  all  to  whitewash  any  person  or 
TO  dig  a  storm  cellar  for  any  person.  So  far  as  I  am  concerned — and 
I  shall  vote  for  the  motion — this  man  is  not  a  constituent  of  mine. 
If  he  was,  it  would  not  make  any  difference.  If  he  is  a  Communist, 
I  think  he  ouglit  to  be  removed  from  the  Government,  but  in  defer- 
ence to  the  operation  now  going  on  on  the  other  side  of  the  Capitol, 
and  in  tlie  other  body,  I  feel  that  the  best  interest  of  good  government 
would  be  served  by  merely  postponing  for  a  day  or  two  or  a  few  hours, 
if  necessary,  the  investigation  into  the  person  whose  name  has  been 
under  discussion. 

I  shall  vote  for  the  motion. 

Mr.  IIankix.  Will  the  gentleman  yield? 

Mr.  McDowell.  Yes. 

Mr.  Rankiist.  Does  the  gentleman  propose  that  this  witness  who 
has  come  down  for  this  purpose,  going  to  this  committee,  does  he 
propose  to  sunmion  her  back  to  answer  the  questions  that  she  can 
answer  in  o  minutes  now  ? 

Mr.  INIcDowELL.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  feel,  in  view  of  the  high  impor- 
tance of  this  witness,  that  she  is  liable  to  be  available  to  this  commit- 
tee or  any* other  congressional  committee  for  quite  a  long  time,  and 
that  calling  her  back  would  cause  her  to  suffer  no  inconvenience  or 
hardship  or  be  any  lack  of  good  proper  government. 

Mr.  Rankin.  It  certainly  would  be  a  hardship  on  the  committee 
to  have  to  come  back  for  this  one  thing  which  can  be  settled  in  3 
minutes. 

The  Chairman.  Is  there  anything  more  to  be  said  on  the  motion  ? 

Mr.  McDowell.  Question,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  All  those  in  favor  of  the  motion  will  signify  by 
answering  "aye"  when  their  names  are  called. 

Mr.  Mundt. 

Mr.  Mi  NOT.  Aye. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  McDowell. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Aye. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Nixon. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Aye. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Rankin. 

Mr.  Rankin.  No. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Hebert. 

Mr.  Hebert.  No. 

The  Chairman.  The  vote  is  3  to  2,  and  the  motion  is  carried. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  we  should  apologize  to  the 
lady,  then,  for  bringing  her  down  here  and  wasting  her  time  at  this 
time. 

The  Chairman.  If  it  will  make  you  feel  any  better,  Mr.  Rankin,  I 
would  be  very  ])leased  to  express  my  regrets  to  the  lady  for  not  being 
al>le  to  answer  nil  of  the  questions  that  you  propounded  here. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  do  not  have  to  apologize  to  her.  She  can  answer 
it  if  you  let  her. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  have  any  more  questions  ? 


548  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

_  Mr.  Eankin.  No;  if  I  am  g'oing  to  be  dictated  to  as  to  wliat  ques- 
tions I  shall  ask  about  these  Communists  who  are  here  trying  to  under- 
mine the  Government,  I  submit  the  committee  might  as  well  adjourn. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Rankin,  you  and  I  have  served  on  this  com- 
mittee for  a  long  time.  We  have  had  our  disagreements,  and  we  have 
agreed  on  many  things.  You  know,  Mr.  Rankin,  well  down  deep 
in  your  heart  that  this  committee  is  not  going  to  whitewash  anybody 
or  anything,  and  you  also  know  that  this  committee  has  done  a  very 
big  job — a  very  big  job — and  especially  a  big  job  in  the  last  2  years. 
We  have  been  unearthing  your  New  Dealers  for  2  years,  and  for  8 
years  before  that. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  know  the  Senate  is  busy  now  nagging  the  white 
people  of  the  South,  and  all  of  the  FEPC,  and  all  this  communistic 
bunk. 

The  Chairman.  Have  you  any  questions  that  you  want  to  ask  this 
witness  ? 

Mr.  Rankin.  Not  unless  I  am  able  to  ask  her  the  questions  that  I 
want  to. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  would  like  to  pursue  further  the 
questions  that  Mr.  Mundt  propounded  in  connection  with  the  wit- 
ness' activities  in  joining  the  Communist  Party. 

Were  you  persuaded  to  join  the  Communist  Party  by  members  of 
the  party  ? 

Miss  Bentlet.  Yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  arguments  did  they  use  with  you  in  persuading 
you  to  join?  Let  me  interrupt  you  and  tell  you  the  reason  for  that 
question.  Tlie  reason  is  this :  I  believe  that  the  best  method  of  pro- 
cedure is  that  an  ounce  of  prevention  is  wortli  a  pound  of  cure.  Tliis 
committee  has  been  trying  to  find  out  what  makes  the  Communists  tick, 
and  why  they  are  spreading,  as  they  are  spreading.  It  is  my  belief 
that  education — we  know  what  appeals  the  Communists  are  making 
to  native-born  Americans  like  yourself  well  able  to  combat  the  evil. 
That  is  the  reason  I  ask  you  the  question:  What  persuaded  you,  a 
native-born  American,  an  American  citizen,  a  highly  educated  Amer- 
ican citizen,  who  should  have  known  better,  educated  in  the  schools 
that  you  were  educated  in,  what  persuaded  you  join  up  with  the  Com- 
munists ? 

Miss  Bentlet.  It  is  so  long  ago  that  I  am  trying  very  hard  to 
remember  the  arguments  that  they  did  put  to  me  at  that  time.  They 
were  the  same  arguments,  I  think,  that  they  put  to  almost  any  liberal 
who  is  dissatisfied  with  various  conditions  in  this  country  which,  of 
course,  exist,  and  there  is  no  denying  them. 

Their  final  argument  was,  "If  you  feel  like  a  liberal,  and  if  you  feel 
that  these  conditions  are  bad,  then  you  should  ally  yourself  with  the 
group  that  will  be  strong  and  disciplined  and  intelligent  and  that 
could  really  do  something  about  these  conditions.'" 

As  for  whether  it  was  American  or  not,  they  represented  themselves 
to  be  an  American  party. 

Mr.  Hebert.  How  did  they  propose  to  overcome — to  impose  their 
system  on  the  American  people,  without  the  overthrow  of  the  American 
form  of  government? 

Miss  Bentlet.  That  was  not  mentioned  at  all  in  those  days,  possibly 
because  that  was  during  Earl  Browder's  regime,  at  which  point  you 
will  remember  they  did  not  come  out  in  the  open  with  any  revolutionary 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  549 

inogiani.  We  were  told  that  the  only  solution  was  education,  that 
people  must  be  taught,  so  that  we  would  finally  get  a  majority  of 
American  people  to  vote  that  particular  regime  into  power. 

JMr.  Hebijrt.  You  mentioned  that  you  were  very  much  exercised 
about  the  growth  of  fascism? 

Miss  Bextley.  Yes;  I  was. 

Air.  Hebert.  What  is  your  distinction  between  a  dictatorship  of 
fascism  and  a  dictatorship  of  communism? 

Miss  Ijextley.  I  see  very  little  difference  right  now. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Why  did  j-ou  go  to  communism,  when  you  now  call  it 
fascism  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  Because  that  was  not  the  way  communism  was  repre- 
sented to  me. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Then  it  was  purely  an  idealistic  appeal  to  you  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  That  is  right.  I  was  told  that  the  Communist  Party 
was  a  democratic  party,  that  everyone  was  democratically  elected  from 
the  bottom  up,  from  the  smallest  units  to  the  section  and  the  top. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  these  clandestine  meetings,  and  secret  maneuvers, 
did  they  appeal  to  you  as  something  democratic,  something  in  the 
open  ? 

]Miss  Bextley.  No  ;  but  you  must  remember  that  I  had  lived  a  year 
in  Italy,  under  a  Fascist  government,  where  almost  everyone  sneaked 
around  corners  and  whispered  in  everybody  else's  ears. 

Mr.  Hebert.  But  you  had  lived  long  enough  in  America,  and  you 
had  been  educated  in  American  schools? 

Miss  Bex^tley.  Yes ;  that  is  correct. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  that  education  had  so  little  influence  on  you? 

Miss  Bextley.  I  knew  so  little  about  American  Government,  and  I 
was  so  very  little  schooled  as  to  the  American  Government. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  say  3'ou  knew  verj'  little  about  the  American 
Government  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Did  they  not  have  courses  in  Columbia  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  No  ;  they  did  not  teach  it. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  was  your  elementary  education? 

Miss  Bextley.  The  same  as  anybody  else's,  but  I  changed  schools 
so  often  due  to  the  fact  that  my  family  moved,  that  I  seemed  to  avoid 
American  history  and  civics  courses. 

Mr.  Hebert.  So  you  grew  up  as  a  typical  J^oung  woman,  an  Ameri- 
can child  in  American  schools,  went  to  a  very  renowned  institution, 
Vassar.  and  went  to  another  famous  institution,  Columbia,  and 
through  all  those  years,  you  were  never  exposed,  or  put  in  contact  with 
what  American  history  was,  what  America  stands  for,  and  what  our 
form  of  government  was  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  No  ;  I  never  was. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  is  what  I  am  trying  to  find  out — where  our  fault 
is  in  the  system  of  education. 

Miss  Bextley.  I  think  it  is  the  fault  that  runs  straight  through  it 
because  there  are  numerous  people  like  myself  who  have  been  brought 
up  like  myself,  who  have  not  the  slightest  comprehension  of  what 
America  is  really  like,  nor  what  it  means  to  live  in  a  democratic  coun- 
try under  a  democratic  system. 


550  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  tliink  that  is  a  great  contribution  which  yon  have 
made  there  in  that  statement,  and  that  is  exactl}^  ^Yhat  I  am  trying  to 
arrive  at. 

Now,  let  me  ask  you  one  other  question.  In  this  desire  of  yours  to 
live  the  idealistic  life  and  bring  a  better  world  about,  did  it  ever 
appeal  to  you,  with  your  intelligence,  with  your  education,  even 
though  not  educated  in  the  Ameiican  form  of  government  or  the 
democratic  form  of  government,  did  it  ever  appeal  to  you  that  you 
were  doing  something  wrong  Avhen  you  were  meeting  people  and 
handing  them  secret  information  during  the  war? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  it  did  not. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  never  appealed  to  you? 

Miss  Bkxtley.  Not  until  I  discovered  what  sort  of  a  thing  I  was 
jnixed  up  in. 

Mr.  Hebert.  How  old  were  you  when  you  started  this  maneuvering, 
this  espionage? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  was  about  7  years  ago. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Well,  you  were  above  21 — I  will  not  ask  yon  for  your 
exact  age — but  I  want  to  know  whether  or  not  you  were  a  mature 
individual. 

Miss  Bentley.  I  think  you  may  be  physically  mature,  but  many 
times  you  are  not  mentally  matui'e. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  do  not  think  that  Columbia  or  Vassar  would  like 
that  for  their  graduates  to  say  that  they  were  not  mentally  mature 
after  their  graduation,  do  you? 

Miss  Bentley.  It  might  be  correct  in  a  number  of  cases. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  it  never  did  come  to  you  or  dawn  upon  you  that 
you  were  going  to  these  secret  meetings,  and  this  super-duper  secret 
stuff  that  you  engaged  in,  that  you  were  performing  a  disservice  to 
your  Government  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  I  w^as  thoroughly  sold  on  the  conviction  that 
no  matter  what  happened  in  my  lifetime  I  was  building  a  decent  world 
in  the  future. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Even  if  it  was  betraying  your  own  Government  in 
time  of  war? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  did  not  think  it  was  betraying  my  own  Govern- 
ment. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Wliat  did  you  think  these  people  wanted  this  infor- 
mation for  about  our  Air  Force  ?  Did  it  not  occur  to  you  as  a  normal 
individual,  with  more  than  normal  education,  that  Russia  was  sup- 
posedly our  ally  in  this  war,  and  they  did  not  have  to  resort  to  these 
means  to  get  secret  information  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  It  never  occurred  to  me  that  way  because  I  think  the 
mistake  you  make  when  you  look  at  communism  is  that  you  take  it  as 
an  intellectual  process.  It  is  not.  It  is  almost  a  religion  and  it  gets 
you  so  strongly  that  you  take  orders  blindly.  You  believe  it  blindly. 
That  accounts  for  the  fact  that  no  real  Communist  is  religious,  nor 
has  any  religion. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  say  "you"  take  it.  You  do  not  mean  to  infer  that 
the  members  of  this  committee  take  it  that  way.  We  recognize  it 
for  what  it  is,  and  that  is  what  we  are  trying  to  combat.  We  do 
believe  it  is  a  religion,  and  a  godless  religion. 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct,  but  in  the  process  3'our  intellectual 
faculties  cease  to  function  in  a  critical  sense. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  551 

Mr.  PIebert.  But  would  yoii  say  that  these  confused  liberals,  as  you 
describe  them,  lack  the  mentality  to  arrive  at  a  logical  conclusion? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  I  would  say  they  have  that  mentality,  but  that 
that  mentality  has  been  dulled  by  this  emotional  process. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Who  spurred  tliis  emotionalism  on  you?  Was  it  this 
man  Golos? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Was  it  that  you  were  devoted  to  him  so  much  that  you 
followed  him  blindly  and  were  blind  to  everything  else? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Hebert.  So,  then,  it  was  an  individual  case  of  a  personal  devo- 
tion that  swayed  you  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  it  was. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  blinded  you  to  your  traitorous  acts  against  your 
own  country? 

jMiss  Bentley.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  do  not  want  to  see  you  get  too  far  out  on  a  limb  on 
this  education  proposition.  But  almost  every  high  educational  insti- 
tution— every  institution  of  higher  learning  in  this  country — ^lias  a 
Communist  professor  on  its  pay  roll,  and  they  are  poisoning  the  minds 
of  the  students  of  this  Nation  today,  so  I  am  not  sure  that  it  is  purely 
a  question  of  education.  I  noticed  that  some  of  the  smartest  ones  we 
have  seen,  and  some  of  those — this  Professor  Adler,  whose  name  I 
tried  to  bring  out  this  morning — going  around  and  preaching  that  we 
must  get  rid  of  the  United  States. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  am  not  getting  out  on  a  limb.  I  am  nailing  the  limb 
firmly  to  the  tree. 

Mr.  Rankin.  What  I  am  trying  to  say  is  that  we  have  a  world  of 
Communist  professors  in  our  educational  system,  and  they  are  poison- 
ing the  minds  of  the  young  students  of  this  country. 

Mr.  Hebert,  That  is  absolutely  correct,  and  I  want  to  find  out  where 
this  education  starts.  It  is  to  our  own  indictment  that  in  our  elemen- 
tary schools  we  do  not  take  the  child  up  and  teach  the  child  what 
Americanism  is,  and  when  he  otows  up  and  gets  to  a  school  of  higher 
learning,  such  as  Vassar  or  Columbia — and  I  think  General  Eisen- 
hower has  a  big  thing  to  do  to  clean  that  place  up 

Mr.  Rankin.  Do  you  see  where  the  Communists  have  established  a 
scholarship  there  ? 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  is  criminal.  I  think  as  Americans  who  are  in- 
terested in  this,  without  any  fanfare  or  fireworks  or  anything,  to  get 
down  to  the  meat  of  the  coconut,  I  think  it  is  incumbent  upon  us  right 
at  this  time  as  far  as  we  can  as  individuals  in  our  own  individual 
community,  that  we  should  start  during  the  week  end  to  take  our 
children  from  the  time  that  they  can  speak  to  show  them  what  Amer- 
icanism is,  and  what  it  stands  for,  and  I  was  vevy  much  interested  to 
find  this  out  from  this  Avitness  today,  that  she  was  so  devoid  of  knowl- 
edge as  to  what  her  country  meant  to  her  that  she  was  ready  to  commit 
acts  of  treason  against  her  country  in  time  of  war.  She  says  she  did 
it  under  the  guise  of  devotion.  I  will  take  her  word  for  that,  but  I 
cannot  conceive  in  my  own  mind  of  any  witness  or  any  individual  or 
any  person  with  the  educational  background  of  this  witness  not  know- 
ing right  from  wrong. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Not  even  Remington. 

[Laughter.] 


552  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

The  Chairmatst.  Mr.  Nixon. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Miss  Bentley,  you  have  testified  that  you 

Mr.  Hebert.  May  I  interruj^t  one  second  to  bring  this  to  the  atten- 
tion of  the  committee,  which  I  am  sure  the  chairman  will  be  inter- 
ested in.  That  is  this  very  fine  pamphlet  prepared  by  the  chief  in- 
vestigator, which  is  the  first  of  a  series  and  which  shows  what  I  mean, 
the  100  Questions  of  communism,^  which  is  being  distributed  to  the 
New  Orleans  public  and  parochial  schools  by  the  archbishop  of  New 
Orleans,  and  the  superintendent  of  public  schools  in  New  Orleans,  so 
that  the  children  will  immediately  be  cognizant  of  what  communism  is, 
and  they  will  know  the  evil  forces  at  work.  And  I  may  say  this,  too, 
in  connection  with  our  higher  schools  of  learning :  I  am  from  Tulane, 
and  to  my  chagrin  there  are  more  Communists  who  infest  that  place 
than  Americans.  There  is  one  man  named  Franklin,  in  that  connec- 
tion, Mr.  Mundt — one  man  named  Franklin  who  taught  the  Comnnmist 
line  to  the  students  of  Tulane  University,  and  who  is  now  on  leave 
from  that  university  on  an  appointment  to  the  United  Nations,  and  I 
cannot  find  out  who  put  him  there, 

Mr.  Rankin.  When  you  say  the  university,  you  mean  the  professors. 

Mr.  Hebert.  The  professors. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Miss  Bentley,  you  testified  that  among  those  with  whom 
you  had  some  dealings  during  the  period  that  you  were  working  with 
this  ring  was  one  Lauchlin  Currie,  who  was  in  tlie  White  House,  on  the 
White  House  staff,  at  that  time,  I  believe? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  I  understand  that  you  met  Mr.  Currie  personally? 

Miss  Bentley,  No  ;  I  did  not. 

Mr.  Nixon,  What  connection  did  you  have  with  him  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  The  information  that  he  gave  was  generally  given 
to  George  Silverman  who  relayed  that  to  Mr.  Silvermaster  or  Mr.  Ull- 
mann  or  Mrs.  Silvermaster,  and  I  picked  it  up  when  I  went  to  the 
Silvermaster  house, 

Mr,  Nixon.  How  did  Silverman  get  it;  did  he  get  it  directly  from 
Mr,  Currie? 

Miss  Bentley,  Yes;  I  understand  that  they  went  to  Harvard  to- 
gether, and  were  great  friends. 

Mr,  Nixon.  Was  Mr.  Silverman  connected  with  Mr.  Currie  the  same 
way  ?    Did  they  work  in  the  same  office  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  I  do  not  believe  so.  Mr.  Silverman  was  first 
with  the  Railroad  Retirement  Board,  and  later  with  the  Air  Corps,  so 
I  do  not  see  how  there  could  be  a  job  connection, 

Mr,  Nixon,  How  did  you  know  that  Mr.  Currie  gave  this  informa- 
tion to  Mr.  Silverman? 

Miss  Bentley,  Because  I  was  told  that  by  Mr,  Silvermaster  and  Mr. 
Ullmann. 

Mr.  Nixon.  I  see.  And  the  information  that  was  received  from  Mr. 
Currie  via  Mr.  Silverman  was  taken  by  you  and  turned  over  to  the 
Russian  agents? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Nixon,  That  is  correct.  As  to  any  specific  information  that  was 
obtained  in  this  manner,  is  it  my  understanding  that  you  testified  that 

^"100  Things  You  Should  Know  About  Communism  in  the  U.  S.  A.,"  pamphlet  issued  by 
the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities.  June  1948. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  553 

the  information  concerning  the  breaking  of  the  Russian  code  was  ob- 
tained through  Mr.  Ciirrie? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

]\lr,  Nixon.  How  do  yon  know  that? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  Mr.  Silverniaster  told  me  that  one  day  Mr. 
Currie  came  dashing  into  Mr.  Silverman's  house,  sort  of  out  of  breath, 
and  told  him  that  the  Americans  were  on  the  verge  of  breaking  the 
Soviet  code.  Mr.  Silverman,  of  course,  got  immediately — in  due 
course,  got  in  touch  with  Mr.  Silvermaster. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  Mr.  Silvermaster  conveyed  that  information  to 
you? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  NisoN.  Was  there  any  other  information,  specific  information, 
that  you  know  of  that  was  obtained  through  Mr.  Currie? 

ISIiss  Bentley.  Yes ;  some  of  the  information  on  our  relations  with 
China — I  mean  whether  this  Government  would  support  Chiang  Kai- 
shek,  or  the  Eighth  Eoute  xlrmy  people.  His  value  also  lay,  as  I  said, 
in  helping  Mr.  Silvermaster  into  his  job  and  easing  him  out  of  his  job, 
and  so  on.    He  was  sort  of  a  friend  of  court. 

Mr.  Nixon.  He  was  a  friend  at  court  in  seeing  that  the  members  of 
the  ring  obtained  positions  in  Government  where  they  could  be  produc- 
tive.   As  you  indicated. 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Currie  was  the  man  who  the  .members  of  the  ring 
went  to  see  in  the  event  they  were  attempting  to  get  a  transfer  to  a 
productive  agency  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  He  was  one  of  the  people ;  yes. 

INIr.  Nixon.  Where  there  others  who  assisted  in  that  particular 
thing? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  do  not  know  who  those  other  people  were.  They 
were  upper  people.  Mr.  White,  of  course,  helped  get  people  into  place* 
and  som.e  of  the  others. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  know  whether  Mr.  Niles  participated  in  that 
activity  or  not  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Not  to  my  knowledge.  I  know  next  to  nothing 
about  Mr.  Niles. 

Mr.  Nixon.  When  you  obtained  this  information,  as  you  have  in- 
dicated you  have  from  various  people  who  were  in  the  ring,  who  at  that 
time  were  employed  in  the  Government  in  responsible  positions,  did 
they  know  that  you  were  going  to  take  this  information  and  turn  it 
over  to  the  Soviet  agents? 

Miss  Bentley.  Some  did;  some  did  not. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Well,  now,  those  who  did  not  know,  why  did  they  give 
you  the  information  %  Why  did  they  think  they  were  giving  to  it  you  ? 
For  what  purpose? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  a  question  I  do  not  know  the  answer  to.  I 
know  that  both  the  Silvermasters  and  Ullmann  knew  exactly  where 
it  was  going.  From  what  they  said,  Mr.  White  knew  where  it  was 
going  but  preferred  not  to  mention  the  fact.  They  were  undecided 
as  to  whether  Mr.  Currie  knew  or  not.  but  they  suspected  that  he  did. 
Others  of  them,  I  am  not  sure  about.  Some  of  them  may  have  thought 
it  was  going  to  the  Communist  Party  headquarters  for  use  by  Earl 
Browder,  or  others  may  have  guessed"  the  truth.  It  just  was  not  dis- 
cussed, and,  therefore,  I  cannot  give  you  the  answer. 


554  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Nixox.  You  mean  that  some  of  these  people  might  liave  given 
this  information  for  the  purpose  or  what  they  thought  was  the  purpose 
of  merely  aiding  the  Communist  Party  in  the  United  States  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct,  yes ;  that  was  esi)ecially  true  of  the 
individuals  that  I  contacted,  because  they  were  told  by  Mr.  Golos 
that  this  information  was  for  the  personal  use  of  Earl  Browder  in  pre- 
paring books  and  in  preparing  policies  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  then,  as  a  matter  of  fact,  once  Mr.  Browder  ob- 
tained the  information,  or  once  you  obtained  the  information,  how- 
ever, it  was  turned  over  directly  to  the  Soviet  agents  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  it  was. 

Mr.  Nixon.  So,  we  have  a  situation  then  where  those  who  furnished 
the  information  might  not  have  been  aware 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Of  the  fact  that  it  was  going  to  a  Soviet  agent  in  every 
case  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Nixon.  At  the  time  that  these  events  were  occurring,  that  you 
were  in  this  particular  activity,  the  Russians  at  that  time  were  allies  of 
the  United  States ;  were  they  not  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct ;  yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Those  people  who  clid  know,  as  you  testified  some  did 
know,  that  this  information  was  going 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  To  the  Soviet  agents,  as  far  as  they  were  coricerned,  did 
they  realize  that  by  giving  that  information,  making  that  information 
available  to  the  Russians,  it  was  not  in  the  best  interests  of  the  United 
States? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  would  say  that  their  point  of  view  was  roughl}'  the 
fact  that  as  Communists  they  were  interested  in  Russia  because  Rus- 
sia already  had  a  Communist  government.  They  wished  for  a  Com- 
munist government  in  this  country.  Therefore,  they  felt  that  it  was 
their  duty  to  aid  a  country  vshich  had  a  Communist  govermnent.  They 
also  felt  that  Russia  was  bearing  the  brunt  of  the  war — you  remember, 
the  Germans  drove  straight  through — that  she  was  inadequately^  pre- 
pared, and  they  told  me  that  in  the  course  of  their  dealings  with  the 
American  Government  they  felt  that  thei'e  were  elements  in  the  Ameri- 
can Government  who  were  blocking  aid  in  Russia  at  the  time  when  they 
felt  it  was  absolutely  necessary  for  her  survival. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Were  they  aware  of  the  fact  that  by  furnishing  this  in- 
formation to  Russia  they  were  violating  the  laws  of  the  United  States? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  would  think  so,  because  I  imagine  most  of  them — 
hadn't  they  signed  affidavits  or  something  when  they  took  these  secret 
jobs  that  said  3'OU  should  not  give  out  that  information? 

Mr.  Nixon.  In  other  words,  as  far  as  these  people  were  concerned, 
they  were  placing  the  interests,  during  the  war — they  were  placing  the 
interests  of  the  Soviet  Government  above  that  of  their  own  Govern- 
ment ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  would  say  that  was  correct ;  yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  when  they  furnished  this  information,  they  knew 
that  they  were  doing  something  which  was  not  in  the  best  interests  of 
the  Govermnent  of  the  United  States  as  it  then  existed,  and  as  they 
w^orked  for  it. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  555 

Miss  Bextley.  I  hardly  know  how  to  answer  that,  because  they  felt 
they  were  acting  in  the  best  interests  of  the  American  Government ; 
that  is  to  say,  the  elements  which  they  approved  of. 

]Mr.  Nixon.  I  see. 

Miss  Bentley.  But  they  felt  that  they  were  acting  against  the  ele- 
ments who  were  anti-Russian,  so  it  is  hard  to  break  the  thing  down. 

Mr.  Nixon.  They  knew  they  were  not  acting  in  the  best  interests  of 
the  non-Communist  American  Government? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct ;  yes. 

IVIr.  Nixon.  And  they  would  act  in  the  best  interests  of  the  American 
Government  where  they  felt  that  that  Government  was  serving  com- 
munistic purposes;  isn't  that  the  case? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct;  yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  wherever  the  interests  of  this  Government  came 
in  conflict  with  the  Communist  Government,  in  effect,  they  would  be 
willing  to  do  anything  for  the  purpose  of  aiding  Communist  Govern- 
ment where  its  interests  conflicted  with  those  of  the  non-Communist 
American  Government  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  would  imagine  so,  up  to  a  point.  It  would  de- 
pend.    I  don't  know  how  far  these  people  would  have  gone. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Well,  certainly,  they  were  willing  to  erigage  in  this  type 
of  activity  that  you  have  indicated. 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Of  violating  their  oath  of  office,  and  obtaining  secret 
documents. 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  seeing  to  it  that  it  got  into  the  hands  of  a  foreign 
government. 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Miss  Bentley,  were  you  aware  of  the  fact  when  you  de- 
cided to  turn  this  information  over  to  the  Federal  Bureau  of  Investi- 
gation that  you  ran  a  considerable  personal  risk  in  doing  so? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes:  I  was  quite  aware  of  it.  I  also  realized  that 
there  would  be  a  considerable  mud-slinging  campaign  from  the  left, 
which  was  also  unpleasant. 

]\Ir.  Nixon.  Were  you  awai-e  of  the  fact  that  in'addition  to  the  mud 
slinging  you  might  run  a  risk  greater  than  that? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;T  knew  that. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  you  were  willing  to  take  that  risk  in  doing  so? 

Miss  Bentley.  Certainly,  because  I  felt  that  since  I  had  been  mixed 
up  in  this  thing  it  was  my  duty  to  unscramble  it,  so  to  speak. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  that  is  the  reason  that  you  did  turn  this  informa- 
tion over  to  our  investigative  authorities? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct ;  yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  I  have  no  further  questions,  Mr.  Chairman,  but  I  would 
like  to  say — well,  I  have  just  one  other  question. 

How  long  have  you  been  working  with  the  investigative  authorities 
of  our  Government  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Since  I  went  in  to  see  them. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  when  was  that  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  The  latter  part  of  August  1945. 

Mr.  Nixon.  In  other  worcls,  the  investigative  authorities  of  this 
country  have  been  aware  of  this  testimony  that  you  have  given  to 
us  today  since  August  of  1945? 


556  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  possibly  later,  because  there  was  so  miicli  of 
it  that  had  to  be  taken  down  and  gone  over,  so  I  would  set  the  final 
date  a  bit  further  than  that. 

Mr.  Nixon.  About  how  much  later? 

Miss  Bentley,  I  do  not  know  exactly. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Well,  say  3  months? 

Miss  Bentley.  Three  or  four  months,  yes,  because  all  of  it  had  to 
be  taken  down  in  great  detail  and  had  to  be  gone  into. 

Mr.  NixoN.  Well,  at  least,  by  February  of  194G,  which  would  be 
4  months : 

Miss  Bentley.  I  should  think  so. 

Mr.  Nixon  (continuing).  The  investigative  agencies  of  this  coun- 
try, the  Department  of  Justice,  were  fully  aware  of  all  this  testimony 
that  you  have  given  to  us  today. 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  it  was  in  the  files  of  the  Government? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Nixon.  In  other  words,  it  is  quite  apparent,  Mr.  Chairman, 
that  this  information  has  been  available  as  to  these  Government  em- 
ployees for  a  period  of  almost  2  years. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  It  is  also  quite  apparent  that  we  need  a  new  Attorney 
General. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Does  that  apply  to  Remington,  too?     [Laughter.] 

Mr.  Nixon.  Well,  from  that  standpoint,  Mr.  Remington  is  still 
on  the  Government  pay  roll.  I  would  like  to  say,  Mr.  Chairman, 
that  I  have  no  further  questions. 

I  think  that,  although  obviously  we  would  be  critical  of  any  person 
who  would,  of  course,  indulge  in  the  type  of  activities  which  the  people 
involved  in  this  ring  did  indulge  in — that  certainly  this  witness  de- 
serves the  commendation  of  the  members  of  the  committee  and,  I  think, 
of  the  American  public  generally  for  the  courage  which  she  has  dis- 
played once  she  saw  what  was  happeniiftg  in  coming  to  the  investigative 
agencies  of  this  country  and  now  in  open  session  and  telling  her  story. 

I  think  that  those  of  us  who  have  been  dealing  in  this  field  with 
Communist  espionage,  and  who  know  the  ends  to  which  the  Commu- 
nists would  go  in  attempting  to  see  that  such  information  does  not 
reach  the  agencies  that  might  prosecute  them,  certainly  know  that 
she  did  take  a  considerable  risk,  and  I  certainly  believe  she  deserves 
commendation  from  all  of  us  for  having  taken  that  risk. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  have  one  or  two  questions. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Rankin. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  say  that  you  never  met  Mr.  Currie  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Not  personally;  no. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  never  saw  him? 

Miss  Bentley.  No. 

Mr,  Rankin.  You  would  not  know  him  if  you  saw  him  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  think  I  have  seen  his  picture  in  the  papers,  but  I 
do  not  know  if  I  would  recognize  him. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Now,  this  information  that  came  to  you  through  a 
man  named  Silverman 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Rankin  (continuing).  Was  passed  on  to  a  man  iiiamed  Silver- 
master. 

Miss  Bentley.  Or  Mr,  Ullmann,  depending  on  the  situation. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  557 

]\Ir.  Kankix.  It  came  to  you  third  hand? 

Miss  Bentley.  Correct. 

Mr.  Eankin.  Now,  Silverman,  you  say,  is  a  Communist? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  And  Silvermaster  is  a  Communist? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr  R  \NKiN.  And  no  Communist  has  any  regard  for  the  truth,  has 

he? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  it  depends  on  the  situation. 

Mr.  Rankin.  That  is  what  I  say.  They  have  no  regard  for  the 
truth.  When  it  suits  tlieir  purpose  to  lie  they  just  as  soon  lie  as  tell 
the  truth;  is  that  not  right? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Now,  the  thing  that  disturbs  me  is  that  you  take  the 
testimony,  the  statement  of  two  men.  Silverman  and  Silvermaster,  re- 
layed from  one  to  the  other,  about  what  this  Scotchman  in  the  White 
House,  'Sir.  Currie,  said  about  communism. 

Did  you  ever  investigate  to  find  out  whether  or  not  Silverman  or 
Silvermaster  were  telling  the  truth? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  for  one  thing,  in  espionage  rings  you  cannot 
investigate.  Thej^  are  built  up  on  this  particular  type  of  flimsy  con- 
nection. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Well,  here  we  have  gone  on  all  day — here  is  what  is 
disturbing  me — I  would  not  know  Mr.  Currie;  I  am  fairly  familiar 
with  the  incumbents  of  the  White  House  and  have  been  for  the  last 
15  or  20  years.  I  do  not  know  him.  I  know  Mr.  Mclntyre  and  Steve 
Early,  and  all  those  gentlemen,  but  the  thing  that  disturbs  me  is  that 
here  we  are  voting  by  a  vote  of  3  to  2  to  keep  from  inquiring  about  one 
man,  and  yet  we  have  put  this  committee — we  have  put  in  the  whole 
day  accepting  from  an  ex-Communist,  which  you  admit  you  are,  tes- 
timony relayed  through  two  Communists  as  to  wliat  this  man  Currie 
in  tlie  White  House  is  supposed  to  have  said. 

Now,  that  looks  to  me  as  if  we  are  going  pretty  far  afield  wlien  we 
take  tliat  kind  of  testimony  and  charge  all  this  up  to  Mr.  Currie. 
When  I  glance  over  the  list  I  see  several  that  seem  to  me  who  would  be 
more  lilcely  to  have  given  that  information  than  Currie,  who  occupied 
similar  positions.  But  here  we  put  in  a  whole  day,  a  whole  day, 
smearing  Currie  by  remote  control  through  two  Communists,  either 
one  of  whom  you  admit  would  swear  to  a  lie  just  as  soon  as  he  would 
swear  to  the  trutli  if  it  suited  hisi)urposes,  and  relayed  to  you,  who  at 
that  time  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party.  We  have  come  in 
jiere  and  put  in  a  whole  day  with  that  kind  of  testimony  about  a  man 
wlio  liappened  to  occupy  a  rather  responsible  position  in  the  White 
House,  and  yet  we  shy  around  and  we  are  denied  the  opportunity  or 
the  right  to  ask  a  question  about  this  man  Remington,  who  is  still  on 
tlie  pay  roll. 

^liss  Bentley.  Might  I  say  just  one  thing  in  that  respect?  It  is 
quite  true  that  Communists  lie  to  the  outside  world.  It  is  not  true 
tliat  they  lie  within  th.e  party,  particularly  to  the  person  whom  they 
regard  as  their  superior.  They  do  not  do  that.  That  was  what  was 
told  me  by  Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  liave  every  reason  to  believe  that  he 
Avas  telling  me  the  truth.  I  have  no  desire  to  smear  anyone.  I  have 
simply  told  the  facts  as  they  were  told  to  me.  It  is  up  to  the  committee 
to  decide  whether  or  not  that  is  credible  or  not. 


558  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  certainly  have  an  unlimited  credibility.  If  yoii 
would  take  the  word  of  any  Connnunist,  Silverman  or  Silvermaster, 
or  both  of  them,  and  I  believe  you  named  another  one,  whom  you  re- 
layed it  through,  who  was  also  a  Communist,  if  you  take  that  testi- 
mony as  to  what  this  man  Currie,  as  I  said,  a  Scotchman,  has  said 
about  the  Communists — it  just  looks  to  me  as  if  we  have  gone  pretty 
far  afield  here  to  smear  this  man  by  remote  control,  instead  of  getting 
someone  who  heard  him  or  who  knew  that  he  had  made  any  state- 
ment. 

Now,  I  am  not  defending  anybody.  Every  Communist  in  the 
United  States  ought  to  be  shipped  out  of  this  country.  Instead  of 
opening  the  gates  of  immigration,  they  should  put  them  in  reverse 
and  ship  out  by  boatload  until  we  get  rid  of  these  Communists  in 
this  country,  those  should  be  shipped  out.  That  is  how  strong  I  feel 
about  it.  If  this  man  Currie  was  doing  this,  he  ought  to  have  been 
shot,  and  if  he  was  not,  Silverman  ought  to  have  been  shot,  and  Silver- 
master  ought  to  have  been  shot.  If  they  were  making  up  this  stuff, 
if  it  was  to  their  benefit  to  smear  Currie,  they  ought  to  be  shot. 

The  Chairman.  We  will  leave  the  shooting  up  to  somebody  else. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  would  like  to  ask,  and  I  am  denied  the  right  to  ask 
you,  one  question  about  Remington. 

The  Chairman.  Any  questions,  Mr.  Hebert? 

Mr.  Hebert.  No,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  have  a  question.  I  wonder.  Miss  Bentley,  have  you 
ever  had  occasion  to  read  the  Communist-control  bill  which  was  re- 
ported out  by  the  House,  and  referred  to  frequently  as  the  Mundt- 
Nixon  bill,  in  the  newspaper,  which  was  passed  by  the  House? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  I  studied  it  quite  thorough!}'.  I  was  very  much 
interested  in  it. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  From  your  knowledge  of  how  the  Communist  espio- 
nage activities  take  place,  and  how  the  Communists  opei-ate  in  this 
country,  do  you  feel  that  that  would  be  an  effective  piece  of  legislation 
if  it  ultimately  wins  Senate  approval  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  do  very  definitely  because  without  putting  them 
underground,  it  brings  them  out  in  the  open  and  makes  them  stand 
up  and  be  counted;  and  I  think  that  if  all  propaganda  was  labeled 
where  it  came  from,  and  people  were  labeled  as  to  what  they  are,  that 
the  real  face  behind  the  mask  would  come  out  in  the  open,  and  a  lot  of 
naive  dupes  who  have  been  taken  in  by  this  would  certainly  not  be 
taken  in  any  longer. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  And  it  certainly  would  not  make  it  more  difficult,  even 
with  an  Attorney  General  of  the  kind  that  we  have  now,  for  a  Com- 
munist to  hold  a  ])osition  with  the  Federal  Government  if  he  recog- 
nized that  it  would  be  a  penitentiary  offense? 

Miss  Bentley.  Exactly.  I  imagine  that  the  Attorney  General  and 
the  authorities  have  been  hampered  by  present  regulations  on  com- 
munism, since  they  must  be  guided  by  laws. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  think  that  is  right.  But  the  thing  that  disturbs  us 
in  the  committee  is  that  the  same  Attorney  General,  who  says  he  is 
liampered  by  present  legislation,  seeks  to  hinder  new  legislation  that 
vould  do  the  job. 

Mr.  Rankin.  If  you  will  get  your  leader  in  the  United  States  Sen- 
ate to  make  a  motion  to  discharge  a  bill  from  committee  and  get  it 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  559 

before  the  Senate  for  passage,  he  will  get  it  ready  to  be  passed  this 
week. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  will  try  to  do  that.  He  is  awfully  busy  working  on 
your  poll-tax  bill.     [Laughter.] 

The  Chairman.  ]Mr.  Nixon,  do  you  have  any  more  questions? 

Mr.  Nixon.  No. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  McDowell,  do  you  have  any  more  questions? 

Mr.  McDowell.  I  have  no  more  questions,  Mr.  Chairman,  but  I 
A^ouid  like  to  say  something  in  view  of  tlie  questions  that  have  been 
asked  and  the  position  that  the  witness  has  been  placed  in. 

It  is  very  familiar  to  all  of  us  in  the  committee  that  intelligent  edu- 
cation is  no  bar  to  being  a  Communist;  that  actually  thousands  of  the 
leading  Communists  of  America  and  the  world  are  highly  educated 
people  who,  by  some  means,  become  Communists. 

In  your  case,  it  was  a  matter  of  your  emotions  which  led  you  into 
this  dismal  world,  and  I  think  the  committee  should  recognize,  and 
that  all  Americans  should  recognize,  that  when  you  discovered  what 
it  was,  you  did  the  only  proper,  good,  and  decent  thing  that  you 
could  do. 

I  would  like  to  point  out  to  tlie  members  of  the  committee  that  here 
in  "Washington  and  elsewhere  in  the  United  States  on  the  pay  roll  of 
the  United  States  are  former  members  of  the  Communist  Party  who 
discovered  their  error,  and  when  they  got  fair  jobs,  and  good  jobs, 
and  decided  that  that  sort  of  life  was  comfortable  and  easy,  they  slid 
out  of  connnunism,  and  did  nothing  to  rectify  the  damage  that  they 
did. 

Mr.  Chairman  and  members  of  the  committee,  here  is  an  American 
citizen  who  delved  into  this  business,  and  now  has  the  courage  to  walk 
tlirough  the  valle}'  of  the  shadow  of  publicity  that  she  is  doing  now, 
and  I  want  to  commend  her,  and  I  think  that  every  member  of  this 
committee  will  properly  join  me  in  that,  and  I  would  like  to  make 
this  point,  Mr.  Chairman,  that  I  assume  that  her  subpena  will  be 
extended  for  perhaps  another  hearing  to  be  held  in  the  future,  and  I 
would  like  to  point  out  to  all  the  members  of  this  committee,  and  all 
the  members  of  the  staff  of  this  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities, 
they  know  that  she  has  placed  herself  in  a  highly  dangerous  position. 
We  all  know,  all  of  us  on  the  committee,  that  young  women  have  dis- 
appeared from  the  face  of  the  earth  here  in  the  United  States  because 
the  Connnunists  thought  they  betrayed  the  Communist  Party. 

We  know  that  they  murder,  they  slaughter,  and  do  everything; 
and  I  would  like  to  suggest,  Mr.  Chairman,  that  in  your  closing  re- 
marks you  order  the  operators  of  the  committee  to  be  available  to  her 
if  she  should  need  them,  that  the  marshals  in  New  York  City,  or  wher- 
ever she  should  be,  should  be  alerted,  and  the  Attorney  General,  and 
the  FBI. 

Mv.  Rankin.  I  just  want  to  say  that  I  commend  the  lady  very 
highly  for  coming  here  and  giving  this  information,  and  one  of  the 
last  witnesses  that  I  know  of  who  turned  and  exposed  the  Communist 
Party  before  this  committee  was  a  Negro.  They  had  taken  him  to 
Moscow  to  teach  him  how  to  do  revolutionary  w^ork,  how  to  burn  ware- 
houses, how  to  blow  up  dams  and  essential  materials,  and  he  sat  in 
that  witness  stand,  and  I  realized  that  he  was  going  through  the  same 
danger  that  you  are  going  through  now^    I  know^  that  better  than  any- 


560  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

body  else  oil  the  committee,  because  I  get  more  threats  than  any  other 
Member  of  Congress,  and  not  only  did  I  try  to  keep  the  Dies  committee 
alive,  but  I  created  this  committee  as  a  standing  committee  of  the 
House.  It  has  done  more  to  expose  the  Communists  in  this  country 
than  any  other  agency,  or  all  of  the  agencies  of  the  Government  com- 
bined. 

I  congratulate  you  on  coming  and  making  this  statement,  regardless 
of  the  errors,  and  I  think  you  are  rather  late  in  seeing  the  light,  but 
better  late  than  never,  and  I  commend  you  on  the  statements  that  you 
have  made,  and  I  am  sorry  I  cannot  ask  you  any  questions  on  Reming- 
ton. 

The  Chairman.  I  had  olie  or  two  questions. 

When  you  had  these  meetings  with  the  Assistant  Secretary  of  the 
Soviet  Embassy,  in  what  year  were  they  held  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  I  met  him  originally  in  October  19i4,  and  the 
last  time  I  saw  him  was  late  in  November  1945. 

The  Chairmax.  How  did  he  contact  you? 

Miss  Bentley.  The  contact  I  had  at  that  time  arranged  for  me  to 
meet  him,  that  I  was  to  meet  him  at  a  drug  store  on  ]M  Street  and  Wis- 
consin Avenue,  and  I  have  forgotten  the  word  we  used,  but  I  was  to 
carry  a  copy  of  Time  magazine,  I  think,  and  he  was  to  come  up  and 
ask  me  if  I  was  not  his  old  friend  Mary,  and  I  was  to  say,  ''Yes,"  I 
believe. 

The  Chaieman.  I  mean,  how  did  he  contact  you  so  that  you  would 
have  the  meeting?    Was  it  by  telephone? 

Miss  Bentley.  Oh,  no ;  it  was  through  a  contact  that  I  had  at  that 
time,  another  Russian  contact  made  the  engagement. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  recall  what  his  name  was? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  do  not  know  his  real  name.  He  was  known  as 
Jack. 

The  Chairman.  Now,  you  mentioned,  and  this  is  one  more  point  that 
I  have  and  the  only  point  that  I  have  reference  to,  you  mentioned 
that  Silverman  or  Silvermaster,  I  guess  it  was,  knew  about  D-day 
before  anyone  else  that  you  had  conferred  with.  Why  did  you  make 
a  point  of  that  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  suppose  because  it  just  stuck  in  my  mind  out  of 
all  the  other  things. 

The  Chairman.  Well,  did  he  know  about  D-da}^  many  days  before 

Ol' 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  it  came  actually  from  Mr.  Ullmann,  not  from 
Mr.  Silvermaster. 

The  Chairman.  And  Mr.  Ullmann  said  that  Silvermaster  knew  all 
about  D-day  before? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  Mr.  Ullmann  was  in  the  Pentagon  with  the 
Air  Corps,  and  through  his  connections  with  General  Hilldring's 
office  he  had  learned  the  date,  and  I  remember  it  distinctly  because 
with  that  knowledge  he  was  betting  with  a  friend  of  his  when  D-day 
Avould  be  and,  of  course,  he  won  tlie  bet,  since  he  knew  it  ahead  of 
time. 

The  Chairman.  When  you  were  interrogated  by  the  FBI,  did  they — 
I  assume  they  looked  over  all  of  your  correspondence  and  papers,  and 
iinything  that  you  had? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  did  not  have  any  papers. 


i 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  561 

The  CiiAiRMAN.  Did  you  have  any  written  contacts  at  all  with 
any  of  these  Russians  or  with  any  of  these  Communists? 

Miss  Bentley.  Written  contact  with  the  Russians?     No. 

The  Chairman.  Did  you  have  any  long-distance  telephone  conver- 
sations Avith  any  of  them? 

Miss  Bentley.  With  the  Russians?     No. 

The  Chairman.  Did  you  have  any  long-distance  telephone  con- 
versations with  Silvermaster? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes.  Helen  Silvermaster  called  me  once  long  dis- 
tance in  the  fall  of  19J:1, 1  recall. 

The  Chairman.  She  called  you  from  Washington  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  She  called  me  from  Washington  at  my  home. 

The  Chairman.  Your  home?     Where  was  your  home  then? 

Miss  Bentley.  58  Barrow  Street. 

The  Chairman.  New  York  City  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  remember  any  other  long-distance  tele- 
phone calls  that  you  got  from  any  of  these  people  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  think  those  were  the  only  ones  that  I  knew  of, 
yes.  That  is  tlie  only  one.  I  might  explain  that  very  few  of  these 
people  knew  my  real  name  and  my  phone  number,  so  that  it  would 
not  have  been  possible  for  them  to  call  me,  and  I  never  made  a  prac- 
tice of  calling  people  long  distance,  so  that  accounts  for  that  fact. 

The  Chairinian.  Does  anyone  else  have  any  questions? 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Chairman,  the  chairman  made  reference  to  the 
Federal  Bureau  of  Investigation  in  his  interrogating  of  the  witness. 
I  think  that  we  all  recognize  that  the  testimony  that  we  have  received 
today,  of  course,  would  need  some  corroboration.  The  only  witnesses 
that  we  have  indicated  as  yet  that  we  are  going  to  have  are  those 
that  have  been  named  as  having  participated  in  the  ring.  I  believe 
that  the  chair  could  well  take  under  consideration  the  question  of 
calling  before  the  committee  the  Director  of  the  Federal  Bureau  of 
Investigation  to  obtain  any  corroborative  evidence  that  he  may  have 
as  to  these  activities. 

The  Chairman.  I  want  to  say  a  word  about  that.  The  closest  rela- 
tionship exists  between  this  committee  and  the  FBI.  I  cannot  say 
as  much  as  between  this  committee  and  the  Attorney  General's  office, 
but  the  closest  relationship  exists  between  this  committee  and  the 
FBI.  I  think  there  is  a  verv  ffood  understanding  between  us.  It 
is  something,  however,  that  we  cannot  talk  too  much  about.  1  am 
quite  certain  that  if  they  felt  that  they  could  give  us  anything, 
without  endangering  their  own  position,  or  in  any  way  endangering 
their  sources  of  infoi-mation.  they  would  be  glad  to  cooperate. 

Now.  I  want  to  say  this  to  the  witness  before  something  else :  We 
appreciate  very  much  your  being  a  witness  before  this  committee, 
and  we  fully  realize  that  you  have  had  a  gruelling  time  of  it  over  the 
past  years,  particularly  the  past  few  months.  Your  ability  to  stand 
up  under  it  in  the  way  you  have  is  certainly  something  to  be  proud  of. 
I  thank  you  very  much  for  coming,  and  you  will  remain  under  our 
subpena.  however,  and  ^'•ou  should  expect  to  be  called  back  at  an 
early  date. 

In  the  meantime,  we  shall  keep  in  touch  with  you,  and  we  would 
appreciate  it  if  you  would  advise  Mr.  Stripling  on  how  you  could  be 

80408—48 5 


562  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

reached  at  all  times,  and  where  you  can  be  reached,  and  always  di- 
rectly, through  no  intermediary. 

So,  we  will  probably  see  you  in  the  near  future,  and  we  thank  you. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  you  mentioned  General  Hilldring 
of  the  Air  Corps. 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  do  not  know  his  first  name  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No  ;  I  am  sorry,  I  do  not,  but  I  believe  his  name  was 
in  all  the  papers  at  the  time,  and  I  believe  he  is  a  fairly  famous  in- 
dividual. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  ask  that  we  be  permitted  to  put  his 
full  name  into  the  record,  if  you  can  ascertain  it.  We  have  attempted 
to  do  so  at  this  time. 

The  Chairman.  Whose  full  name? 

Mr.  Stripling.  General  Hilldring.  If  there  was  a  General  Hill- 
dring connected  with  the  Air  Force  during  that  period,  we  would  like 
permission  to  insert  his  full  name  into  the  record. 

The  Chairman.  Without  objection  it  is  so  ordered  as  to  putting 
the  full  name  in. 

(Full  name  inserted  in  record:  Maj.  Gen.  Jolm  H.  Hilldring, 
retired  11)46.) 

Are  there  any  other  questions? 

Now,  the  Chair  would  also  like  to  announce  that  the  committee 
will  go  into  executive  session  just  as  soon  as  possible  to  determine 
who  the  next  witness  will  be,  but  from  now  on,  most  of  the  witnesses, 
as  far  as  I  am  concerned,  all  of  the  witnesses  will  be  heard  in  public 
hearing,  and  we  will  have  Silvermaster  and  your  friend  Remington, 
and  many  of  the  other  witnesses  who  were  invited  today,  and  they 
will  all  be  given  an  opportunity  to  be  heard,  and  we  will  be  given 
an  oppoitunity  to  question  them  at  length. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  want  to  comment  on  what  you  said 
about  the  FBI.  I  agree  with  everything  you  say  about  the  FBI. 
I  think  Edgar  Hoover  is  one  of  the  great  men  of  this  country,  but 
I  do  think  that  the  FBI  ought  to  be  made  an  independent  agency,  and 
I  have  a  bill  pending  in  this  House  for  that  purpose. 

The  Chairman.  Is  there  anything  more  to  bring  up  today  by  any 
member  of  the  committee  or  Mr.  Stripling  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Not  in  open  session. 

The  Chairman.  If  not,  we  will  adjourn. 

(Whereupon,  at  3 :  45  p.  m.,  the  committee  adjourned.) 


heaeinCtS  regarding  communist  espionage  in 
the  united  states  government 


TUESDAY,   AUGUST   3,    1948 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 

Committee  on  Un-American  Activities, 

Washington^  D.  G. 

The  committee  met,  pursufint  to  notice,  at  11  a.  m.,  in  the  hearing 
room  of  the  Conmiittee  on  Ways  and  Means,  New  House  Office  Build- 
ing, Hon.  Karl  E.  Mundt,  presiding. 

Committee  members  present :  Representatives  Karl  E.  Mundt,  John 
McDowell,  Richard  M.  Nixon,  John  E.  Rankin,  J.  Hardin  Peterson^ 
and  F.  Edward  Hebert. 

Stall'  members  present:  Robert  E.  Stripling,  chief  investigator; 
Louis  Russell,  William  Wheeler,  and  Donald  T.  Appell,  investigators ; 
and  A.  S.  Poore,  editor,  for  the  committee. 

Mr.  Mundt.  The  hearing  will  come  to  order.  The  members  present 
are  Messrs.  McDowell,  Nixon,  Rankin,  Peterson.  Hebert,  and  Mundt. 

Mr.  Stripling.  The  first  witness,  Mr.  Chairman,  is  JSIr.  Whittaker 
Chambers. 

Mr.  Chambers,  will  you  stand  and  raise  your  right  hand  and  be 
sworn,  please? 

Ml'.  Mundt.  Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  tlie  testimony  you  are 
about  to  give  will  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the 
truth,  so  help  you  God? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  do. 

TESTIMONY  OF  DAVID  WHITTAKER  CHAMBEES 

Mr.  Stripling.  ]\Ir,  Chambers,  you  are  here  before  the  committee 
in  response  to  a  subpena  that  was  served  on  you  j-esterday  by  Mr.. 
Stephen  W.  Birmingham.     Is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  am. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  you  state  your  full  name  ? 

^Ir.  Chambers.  My  name  is  David  Whittaker  Chambers. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chambers,  will  you  raise  your  voice  a  little^ 
please  ? 

What  is  your  present  address  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  9  Rockefeller  Plaza. 

Mr.  Stripling.  That  is  your  business  address  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  is  your  present  occupation  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  am  senior  editor  of  Time  magazine. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  and  where  were  you  born  ? 

563; 


564  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  was  born  April  1,  1901,  in  Philadelphia. 
Mr.  Striplixg.  How  long  have  yon  been  associated  with   Time 
magazine  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Nine  years. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Prior  to  that  time  what  was  yonr  occupation ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  and  a  paid 
functionary  of  the  party. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  first  join  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Chambers.  1924. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Chambers,  people  at  the  press  table  still  feel  they 
can't  hear  you.    Will  you  please  speak  louder? 

Mr.  Chambers.  1  will  speak  as  loud  as  I  can. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  you  repeat  when  you  joined  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  joined  the  Communist  Party  in  1924. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  did  you  remain  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr.  Chamber.  Until  1937. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  did  you  join  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Chambers.  In  New  York  City. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  disassociate  yourself  with  the  Com- 
munist Party? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  should  like  to  read  a  statement  if  I  may. 

Mr.  Stripling.  A  statement  you  have  prepared  yourself  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  I  have  myself  prepared. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  suggest  the  witness  be  permitted  to  read  this.  He 
has  shown  it  to  me. 

Mr.  Mundt.  I  take  it  the  statement  you  are  about  to  read  will 
indicate  why  you  did  disassociate  yourself  from  the  party? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  will  try  to  do  so. 

Mr.  Rankin.  And  we  will  be  permitted  to  question  him  after  this 
statement  ? 

Mr.  Mundt,  Yes,  sir. 

You  will  be  permitted  to  read  it. 

Mr.  Chambers.  Almost  exactly  9  years  ago — that  is,  2  days  after 
Hitler  and  Stalin  signed  their  pact — I  went  to  Washington  and  re- 
ported to  the  authorities  what  I  knew  about  the  infiltration  of  the 
United  States  Government  by  Communists.  For  years  international 
communism,  of  which  the  United  States  Communist  Party  is  an 
integral  part,  had  been  in  a  state  of  undeclared  war  with  this  Re- 
public. With  the  Hitler-Stalin  pact,  that  war  reached  a  new  stage. 
I  regarded  my  action  in  going  to  the  Government  as  a  sim])le  act  of 
war,  like  the  shooting  of  an  armed  enemy  in  combat. 

At  that  moment  in  history,  I  was  one  of  the  few  men  on  this  side  of 
the  battle  who  could  perform  this  service. 

I  had  joined  the  Comnuniist  Party  in  1924.  No  one  recruited  me. 
I  had  become  convinced  that  the  society  in  which  we  live,  western 
civilization,  had  reached  a  crisis,  of  which  the  First  World  War  was 
the  military  expression,  and  that  it  was  doomed  to  collapse  or  revert 
to  barbarism.  I  did  not  understand  tlie  causes  of  the  crisis  or  know 
what  to  do  about  it.  But  I  felt  that,  as  an  intelligent  man,  I  must  do 
something.  In  the  writings  of  Karl  Marx  I  thought  that  I  had  found 
the  explanation  of  the  historical  and  economic  causes.     In  the  writ- 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  565 

iiigs  of  Lenin  I  thought  I  hiul  found  the  answer  to  the  question,  Whtit 
to  do? 

In  10;]T  I  repudiated  Marx'  doctrines  and  Lenin's  tactics.  Experi- 
ence and  the  record  had  convinced  me  that  communism  is  a  form  of 
totalitarianism,  that  its  triumph  means  shiver}'  to  men  wherever  they 
fall  under  its  sway,  and  spiritual  nioht  to  the  human  mind  and  sonl. 
I  resolved  to  break  with  the  Connnunist  Party  at  whatever  risk  to  my 
life  or  other  tragedy  to  myself  or  my  family.  Yet,  so  strong  is  the 
hold  which  the  insidious  evil  of  communism  secures  on  its  disciples, 
that  I  could  still  say  to  someone  at  the  time :  "I  know  that  I  am  leaving 
the  winning  side  for  the  losing  side,  but  it  is  better  to  die  on  the  losing 
side  than  to  live  under  communism."' 

For  a  year  I  lived  in  hiding,  sleeping  by  day  and  watching  through 
the  night  with  gun  or  revolver  within  easy  reach.  That  was  what 
imderground  commimism  could  do  to  one  man  in  the  peacefi»i  United 
States  in  the  year  1938. 

I  had  sound  reason  for  supposing  that  the  Communists  might  try 
to  kill  nie.  For  a  number  of  years  I  had  myself  served  in  the  under- 
ground, chiefly  in  Washington,  D.  C.  The  heart  of  my  report  to  the 
United  States  Government  consisted  of  a  description  of  the  apparatus 
to  which  I  was  attached.  It  was  an  underground  organization  of  the 
L^nited  States  Communist  Party  deA'eloped,  to  the  best  of  my  knowl- 
edge, by  Harold  Ware,  one  of  the  sons  of  the  Communist  leader  known 
as  "'Mother  Bloor.*'  I  knew  it  at  its  top  level,  a  group  of  seven  or  so 
men,  from  among  whom  in  later  years  certain  members  of  Miss  Bent- 
ley's  organization  were  apparently  recruited.  The  head  of  the  under- 
ground group  at  the  time  I  knew  it  was  Xathan  Witt,  an  attorney  for 
the  National  Labor  Relations  Board.  Later,  John  Abt  became  the 
leader.  Lee  Pressman  was  also  a  member  of  this  group,  as  was  Alger 
Hiss,  who,  as  a  member  of  the  State  Department,  later  organized  the 
conferences  at  Dumbarton  Oaks,  San  Francisco,  and  the  United  States 
side  of  the  Yalta  Conference. 

The  purpose  of  this  group  at  that  time  was  not  primarily  espionage. 
Its  original  puri)ose  was  the  Communist  infiltration  of  the  American 
Government.  But  espionage  was  certainly  one  of  its  eventual  objec- 
tives. Let  no  one  be  surprised  at  this  statement.  Disloyalty  is  a  matter 
of  principle  with  every  member  of  the  Communist  Party.  The  Com- 
numist  Party  exists  for  the  specific  purpose  of  overthrowing  the 
Government,  at  the  opportune  time,  by  anj^  and  all  means;  and  each 
of  its  members,  by  the  fact  that  he  is  a  member,  is  dedicated  to  this 
purpose. 

It  is  10  years  since  I  broke  away  from  the  Communist  Party.  Dur- 
ing that  decade  I  have  sought  to  live  an  industrious  and  God-fearing 
life.  At  the  same  time  I  have  fought  conmuuiism  constantly  by  act 
and  written  word.  I  am  proud  to  appear  before  this  committee.  The 
j.ublicity  inseparable  from  such  testimony  has  darkened,  and  will  no 
doubt  continue  to  darken,  my  effort  to  integrate  myself  in  the  com- 
munity of  free  men.  But  that  is  a  small  i)rice  to  pay  if  my  testimony 
helps  to  make  Americans  recognize  at  last  that  they  are  at  grips  witli 
a  secret,  sinister,  and  enormously  powerful  force  whose  tireless  pur- 
pose is  their  enslavement. 

At  the  same  time,  I  should  like,  thus  publicly,  to  call  upon  all  ex- 
Communists  Avho  have  not  yet  declared  themselves,  and  all  men  within 


566  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

the  Communist  Party  whose  better  instincts  have  not  yet  been  cor- 
rupted and  crushed  by  it,  to  aid  in  this  struggle  while  there  is  still 
time  to  do  so. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chambers,  in  your  statement  you  stated  that 
jou  yourself  had  served  the  underground,  chiefly  in  Washington,  D.  C. 
What  underground  apparatus  are  you  speaking  of  and  when  was  it 
established  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Perhaps  we  should  make  a  distinction  at  the  begin- 
ning. It  is  Communist  theory  and  practice  that  even  in  countries 
where  the  Comnuniist  Party  is  legal,  an  underground  party  exists 
side  by  side  with  the  open  party. 

Tlie  apparatus  in  Washington  was  an  organization  or  group  of  that 
underground. 

Mr.  Rankin.  When  you  speak  of  the  apparatus  in  Washington  you 
mean  th^ Communist  cell,  do  you  not? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  mean  in  effect  a  group  of  Connnunist  cells. 

Mr.  Rankin.  A  group  of  Communist  cells  when  you  speak  of 
"apparatus"  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  a  plan  devised  by  the  Communists  to  infiltrate 
the  Government  of  the  United  States  for  the  purpose  of  using  these 
cells  for  the  benefit  of  the  Soviet  Union  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  would  certainly  say  that  that  would  be  an  ulti- 
mate objective. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  about  the  particular  apparatus  to  which  you 
referred  in  your  statement? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Do  you  mean  was  it  a  Soviet  agency? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  it  established  for  the  purpose  of  causing  people 
in  the  Government  to  serve  the  ultimate  objectives  of  the  Soviet  Union  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  think  you  could  only  say  that  in  the  extreme  sense 
the  American  party  is  an  agency  which  serves  the  purpose  of  the 
Soviet  Government. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Who  comprised  this  cell  or  apparatus  to  which  you 
referred  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  The  apparatus  was  organized  with  a  leading  group 
of  seven  men,  each  of  wdiom  was  a  leader  of  the  cell. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Could  you  name  the  seven  individuals  ?  , 

Mr.  Chambers.  The  head  of  the  group  as  I  have  said  was  at  first 
Nathan  Witt.  Other  members  of  the  group  were  Lee  Pressman,  Alger 
Hiss,  Donald  Hiss,  Victor  Perlo,  Charles  Kramer 

Mr.  MuNDT.  What  was  Charles  Kramer's  correct  name? 

'  Mr.  Chambers.  I  think  his  original  name  was  Krevitsky,  and  John 
Abt — I  don't  know  if  I  mentioned  him  before  or  not — and  Henry 
Collins. 

Mr.  Rankin.  How  about  Harold  Ware  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Harold  Ware  was,  of  course,  the  organizer. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Harold  Ware  was  the  son  of  Ella  Reeve  Bloor,  the 
woman  Communist? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  where  in  the  Government  these  seven 
individuals  were  employed? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  did  at  one  time.  I  think  I  could  remember  some 
of  them. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  567 

Henry  Collins  was  in  the  Department  of  Aoricnlture,  Al<2:er  Hiss 
at  that  time  I  think  was  in  the  Munitions  Investigation  Committee  or 
wliatever  the  official  title  was,  and  Donald  Hiss  I  think  is  in  the  Labor 
Department,  connected  with  innnig-ration. 

I  don't  know  otfhand  what  the  others  were  doing. 

JNIr.  Stripling.  Do  yon  know  whether  or  not  Nathan  Witt  was 
employed  in  the  AAA,  the  Agricultural  Adjustment  Administration? 

INIr.  Chambers.  A  nnmlier  of  these  men  had  been  in  the  AAA.  I 
think  at  that  time  Witt  had  already  entered  the  National  Labor  Rela- 
tions Board. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  Lee  Pressman  was  also 
in  the  AAA  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  He  was  at  one  time. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  have  a  document  here  which  shows 
the  employment  history  of  Lee  Pressman. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Will  yon  identify  the  document,  please? 

Mr.  Stripling.  It  is  Who's  Who. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Who's  Who  in  American  Jewry ;  isn't  it  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes ;  Who's  Who  in  American  Jewry.  He  was  as- 
sistant general  counsel  of  the  Agricultural  Adjustment  Administra- 
tion, Washington,  D.  C,  from  193H  until  1935,  appointed  by  Secretary 
of  Agriculture  Henry  A.  Wallace.  Then  he  was  general  counsel  in 
Works  Progress  Administration  from  1935,  appointed  by  Harry  L. 
Hopkins.  Then  he  was  general  counsel  of  the  Resettlement  Adminis- 
tration, 1935,  appointed  by  Rexford  G.  Tugwell.  He  was  general 
counsel,  June  1936,  for  the  Committee  for  Industrial  Organization  and 
for  the  Steel  Workers'  Organizing  Committee.  General  counsel, 
March  1937,  for  Textile  Workers'  Organizing  Committee. 

Mr.  Chairman,  that  completes  his  employment  with  the  Govern- 
ment service  prior  to  his  going  with  tlie  CIO. 

Do  you  know  where  John  Abt  v:as  employed? 

Mr.  CiiAaiBERS.  No;  I  don't.  I  have  forgotten  where  he  was  at  that 
time. 

jMr.  MuNDT.  Do  you  have  his  employment  record  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  According  to  Who's  Who  in  Labor,  INfr.  Chairman, 
he  gives  his  Government  service  as  follows : 

Chief  of  Litigation,  Agricultural  Adjustment  Administration,  1933 
to  1935:  assistant  seneral  counsel  of  the  WPA  in  1935;  chief  counsel 
of  the  La  Follette  Civil  Liberties  Committee,  1930  to  1937;  special 
assistant  to  the  LTnited  States  Attorney  General,  1937  and  1938.  He 
is  ]iow  with  the  Progressive  Party  of  Mr.  Wallace. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  mean  this  Lee  Pressman  is  supporting  Mr.  Wal- 
lace for  the  Presidency  ? 

,  Mr.  Stripling.  He  is  associated  in  an  official  capacity  with  the 
Progressive  Party. 

kMr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  John  Abt  also. 
Mr.  Stripling.  He  likewise  is  associated  with  Mr.  Wallace. 
Mr.  Hebert.  There  is  no  secret  about  the  tie-up  between  Wallace  and 
the  Communists.     There  is  no  need  to  pursue  that. 
1       Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  recall  where  Donald  Hiss  was  employed  at 
the  time  of  this  infiltration? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  believe  he  was  in  the  Department  of  Labor  con- 
nected with  Immigration. 


568  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  according  to  our  check — I  liaven't 
checked  back  that  far — but  he  is  listed  as  an  employee  of  the  vState 
Department  February  1,  1988,  to  March  2(),  11)45. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Is  Donald  Hiss  a  brother  of  Alaer  Hiss  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Younger  brother  of  Alger  Hiss. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  have  here  the  employment  record  of  Alger  Hiss. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  think  you  should  read  that  into  the  record,  including 
liis  present  employment. 

Mr.  Stripling.  1929  to  1930  he  was  secretary  and  law  clerk  to  a 
Supreme  Court  justice.  From  1980  until  1988  lie  engaged  in  the 
practice  of  law. 

Mr.  Rankin.  May  I  ask  what  Supreme  Court  justice  Avas  he  clerk 
for? 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  will  furnish  you  that,  Mr.  Bankin. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  would  like  to  have  it  in  this  record  right  here  and 
now.     Can  you  give  me  that  information  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  will  furnish  you  that. 

From  1933  to  1985  he  was  employed  by  the  Agricultural  Adjustment 
Administration.  However,  during  the  year  1984  he  was  also  attached 
to  a  special  Senate  committee  investigating  the  munitions  industry. 

In  1935  he  was  employed  as  a  special  attorney  by  the  Department 
of  Justice.  September  13,  193C),  he  was  appointed  an  assistant  to  the 
Assistant  Secretary  of  State.  That  is  the  information  that  I  have  as 
of  this  time. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Do  you  have  the  record  of  when  he  left  the  State  De- 
partment ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  That  information  will  be  forthcoming  very  shortly. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  And  why.  Do  you  have  the  reason  why  he  was  re- 
moved from  the  State  Department? 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  have  no  information  that  he  was  removed,  Mr. 
Chairman. 

Mr.  Chambers,  in  connection  with  tliis  apparatus  operating  liere, 
what  was  your  participation  or  your  function  in  connection  with  it? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Originally  I  came  to  Washington  to  act  as  a  courier 
between  New  York  and  Washington,  which  in  effect  was  between 
this  apparatus  and  New  York. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  Avere  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  was. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Were  you  a  paid  functionary  of  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  meet  with  all  these  men  you  mentioned? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  did  you  meet  with  them? 

Mr.  Chambers.  At  the  home,  the  apartment  of  Henry  Collins, 
which  was  at  St.  Matthews  Court  here  in  Washington. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  this  apparatus  have  a  so-called  headquarters? 

Mr.  Chambers.  It  wasn't  called  a  headquarters,  but  the  St.  Mat- 
thews Court  apartment  was  the  closest  thing  to  a  headquarters  it  had. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  Hal  Ware  also  have  an  apartment  where  you 
met  from  time  to  time  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No;  he  undoubtedly  had  an  apartment,  but  no  one 
met  there  tliat  I  know  of. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  569 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  his  sister  have  a  studio  near  Dupont  Circle? 

Mr.  Chambers.  His  sister  had  a  violin  studio  near  Dupont  Circle, 
■which  was  used  as  a  kind  of  casual  meeting  place  or  rendezvous  for 
members  of  the  group. 

Mr.  Striplix(;.  Would  you  say  most  of  the  meetings  were  held  in 
Henry  Collins'  apartment? 

Mr.  Chambers.  All  the  group  meetiugs  were  held  there,  not  in 
tlie  studio. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Henry  Collins'  apartment? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Who  was  the  woman  who  ran  the  studio? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Helen  Ware. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chambers,  when  you  met  with  these  people  at 
Mr.  Collins'  apartment,  did  you  collect  Communist  Party  dues  from 
them? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  did  not,  but  the  Communist  Party  dues  were 
handed  over  to  me  by  Collins,  who  was  the  treasurer  of  that  group. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Were  all  of  these  people  members  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  an  individual  by  the  name  of  J.  Peters  have 
jtnything  to  do  with  the  operation  of  this  group  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  J.  Peters  was,  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge,  the 
head  of  the  whole  underground  United  States  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  from  time  to  time  come  to  AVashington? 

Mr.  Chambers.  He  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  he  responsible  for  the  setting  up  of  this  group? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Ultimately  he  must  have  been.  He  was  certainly 
Harold  Ware's  superior. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  what  J.  Peters  real  name  is? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  have  been  told,  I  think  it  was  Goldenweis,  or 
some  such  name. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Goldberger? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Goldberger. 

Mr.  Rankin.  What  was  his  given  name? 

Mr.  Chambers.  He  was  known  to  me  for  3'ears  simply  as  Peters. 

Mr.  Stripling.  His  name,  Mr.  Rankin,  is  well  known  in  Communist 
Party  circles.  He  has  gone  under  the  name  of  J.  Peters,  also  under 
the  name  of  Alexander  Stevens,  and  has  traveled  on  false  passports 
under  the  name  of  Isidore  Boorstein. 

On  October  30,  1946 

Mr.  Chambers.  May  I  interrupt? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes. 

Mr.  Chambers.  Peters  told  me  at  one  time  that  he  had  been  a  petty 
officer  in  the  Austrian  Army  during  World  War  I.  After  the  Bela  Kun 
revolution  in  Hungary  he  was  a  member  of  the  Soviet  Government  of 
Hungarv,  I  think,  in  the  agricultural  commissariat. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  the  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities  on  August  19,  1947,  issued  a  subpena  to  be  served  upon  J. 
Peters  calling  for  his  appearance  before  the  committee  on  October  30 
of  that  year.  We  made  a  very  diligent  effort  both  in  New  York  City 
and  in  up-State  New  York  to  serve  this  subpena.  We  have  never 
been  able  to  locate  him  and  ^xe.  have  asked  the  assistance  of  the  Depart- 


570  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

ment  of  Justice  and  Immigration  authorities,  but  still  we  have  been 
unable  to  serve  a  subpena  upon  this  individual. 

In  Communist  Party  circles,  according  to  our  investigation,  he  has 
for  years  been  known  as  the  head  of  the  underground. 

Was  that  your  understanding,  Mr.  Chambers? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes;  it  was. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  you  were  in  the  party  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  say  this  man  was  formerly  a  member  of  a  foreign 
army  and  served  as  a  member  of  the  commissariat  of  a  foreign  gov- 
ernment.   Do  you  know  whether  he  ever  became  an  American  citizen  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No;  I  do  not  know.  I  think  the  presumption  is 
probably  he  did  not. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  He  did  not? 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  The  presumption  is  that  the  top  direction  of  these 
espionage  activities  carried  on  throughout  our  governmental  depart- 
ments was  conducted  by  a  man  who  was  not  an  American  citizen. 

Mr.  Stripling.  He  is  not  an  American  citizen,  Mr,  Chairman. 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  am  not  surprised. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Deportation  order  has  been  issued  against  him  in  the 
last  year,  but  his  whereabouts  is  still  unknown  to  us.  He  is  a  very 
important  witness. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Has  the  Department  of  Justice  ever  been  able  to  locate 
him? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Thomas,  the  chairman  of  our  committee,  com- 
municated with  officials  of  the  Justice  Department  this  year,  as  well 
as  last  year,  in  an  effort  to  locate  Mr.  Peters,  and  so  far  we  have  not 
received  information  as  to  where  he  is. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  They  will  have  to  modify  that  statement  that  they 
always  get  their  man  and  add  "with  the  exception  of  Mr.  Peters." 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  understand,  Mr.  Chairman,  in  the  State  of  New 
York  under  their  present  FEPC  law  you  can't  ask  a  man  who  applies 
for  employment  what  his  name  was  before  it  was  changed  or  where 
he  came  from,  so  that  it  is  a  veritable  storm  cellar  for  people  of  that 
character. 

Mr.  Stripling.  We  have  in  our  possession  a  passport  issued  October 
7,  1931,  which  was  used  by  Peters  to  travel  to  the  Soviet  Union. 
The  name  on  the  passport  is  that  of  Isidore  Boorstein. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  How  does  a  man  who  is  not  an  American  citizen  get 
a  passport  for  travel  abroad? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Maj^  I  interrupt?  Peters  once  explained  to  me  his 
process  of  securing  false  passports. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  wish  you  w^ould  go  into  that  in  some  detail  because 
there  have  been  many  instances  and  it  has  become  veritable  racket 
where  these  Communists  get  passports  to  visit  Soviet  Russia. 

Mr.  Chaimbers.  He  told  me  with  great  amusement  because  of  the 
simplicity  of  the  scheme.  He  had  sent  up  to  the  genealogical  division 
of  the  New  York  Public  Library  a  group  of  young  Communists,  I 
presume,  who  collated  the  birth  and  death  records;  that  is,  they  found 
that  a  child  had  been  born,  let  us  say,  in  1900  and  died  a  month  or  so 
later  or  several  months  later. 

The  party  through  some  members  then  wrote  to  the  proper  authori- 
ties in  New  York  for  issuing  birth  certificates  and  asked  for  a  birth 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  571 

certificate  in  the  name  of  that  dead  chikl.  The  certificate  was  forth- 
coming and  a  pass])ort  Avas  tlien  applied  for  under  that  name  by  some- 
one using  tliat  birth  certificate. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  AVe  have  an  example,  Mr.  Chairman,  of  a  passport 
being  obtained  through  that  ^ame  technique  by  the  Communist  Party 
in  South  Carolina. 

Mr,  Rankin.  Under  the  FEPC  law  in  New  York,  you  couldn't  even 
ask  that  man  for  his  birth  certificate  or  where  he  came  from  if  he 
applied  for  emplojanent. 

Mr.  ]\IcDowELL.  For  the  present  record  it  ought  to  be  said  that  many 
Chinese  have  entered  the  United  States  by  that  same  method  in  the 
last  15  years. 

]Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chambers,  when  you  would  meet  at  the  apart- 
ment of  Mr,  Collins  and  he  would  turn  over  Communist  Party  dues, 
would  he  turn  over  any  other  information  to  you,  any  other  dues  or 
information  other  than  from  these  seven  people  i 

Mr,  Chambers.  Well,  the  dues  were  not  simply  from  the  seven 
people,  I  believe.  Dues  were  from  the  whole  apparatus,  cells  which 
were  headed  bj^  these  seven  people, 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  much  money  was  turned  over  to  you  from  time 
to  time  ? 

Mr,  Chambers.  That  I  don't  know. 

Mr,  Stripling,  Was  it  a  considerable  sum  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  M}"  impression  was  that  it  was  and  I  believe  I  heard 
that  because  at  that  time  the  dues  were  10  percent  of  whatever  the 
individual's  salary  was. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Miss  Bentley  testified  before  our  committee  and  said 
that  in  her  capacity  as  courier  between  Communist  headquarters  in 
New  York  and  Washington,  I  think  chronologically  she  followed  you 
as  courier  and  did  that  work,  she  mentioned  that  she  also  brought 
Communist  litei'ature  and  instructions  from  New  York  to  Washing- 
ton.    Did  you  also  do  that  ? 

Mr.  Chambers,  I  did. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  did  that,  too? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling,  When  Miss  Bentley  testified  before  the  committee 
last  Saturday,  Mr.  Chambers,  she  mentioned  the  name  of  Victor  Perlo 
as  being  the  head  of  an  espionage  group.  You  have  named  Victor 
Perlo  as  a  member  of  the  apparatus. 

Mr,  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  At  that  time  do  you  know  whether  or  not  Victor 
Perlo  was  employed  in  the  Government? 

Mr,  Chambers.  I  believe  at  that  time  Victor  Perlo  was  employed 
by  the  Brookings  Institution. 

Mr.  MuNDT,  I  think  we  read  his  employment  record  into  the  record 
of  the  hearing  while  Miss  Bentley  was  testifying,  did  we  not  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes,  ]Mr.  Chairman.  I  have  his  employment  his- 
tory here.     It  is  already  in  the  record, 

Mr,  MuNDT,  He  was  employed  with  the  Govermnent  several  times? 

Mr.  Stripling,  That  is  true,  and  was  with  the  Brookings  Institution, 
also. 

Would  you  tell  the  committee,  Mr.  Chambers,  whether  or  not  you 
ever  held  any  important  positions  in  the  Comnumist  Part}'? 


572  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr,  Chambers.  I  would  hesitate  to  fall  them  important.  I  was  for 
a  number  of  years  the  actual  editor  of  the  Daily  Worker.  Tlie  nomi- 
nal editor  was  Robert  Minor. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Robert  Minor? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Durino-  what  period  was  that? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  should  think  from  about  192()  until  1929,  when  I 
broke  with  the  Communist  Party  for  2  years,  but  I  broke  with  it  on  a 
matter  of  tactics  and  not  on  a  matter  of  philoso]5hy. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  you  left  the  Connnunist  Party  in  1987  did 
you  approach  any  of  these  seven  to  break  with  you  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No.  The  only  one  of  those  people  whom  I  ap- 
proached was  Alger  Hiss.  I  went  to  tlie  Hiss  home  one  evening-  at 
what  I  considered  considerable  risk  to  myself  and  found  Mrs.  Hiss 
at  home.     Mrs.  Hiss  is  also  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Mrs.  Alger  Hiss? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Mrs.  Alger  Hiss.  Mrs.  Donald  Hiss,  I  believe,  is 
not. 

Mrs.  Hiss  attempted  while  I  was  there  to  make  a  call,  which  I  can 
only  presume  was  to  other  Communists,  but  I  quickly  went  to  the 
telephone  and  she  hung  up,  and  Mr.  Hiss  came  in  shortly  afterward, 
and  we  talked  and  I  tried  to  break  him  away  from  the  party. 

As  a  matter  of  fact,  he  cried  when  we  separated;  when  I  left  him, 
but  he  absolutely  refused  to  break. 

Mr.  McDowell.  He  cried? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes,  he  did.     I  was  very  fond  of  Mr.  Hiss. 

Mr.  Mundt.  He  must  have  given  you  some  reason  why  he  did  not 
want  to  sever  the  relationship. 

Mr.  Chambers.  His  reasons  were  simply  the  party  line. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  think  there  is  a  differentiation  there  that  the  wit- 
ness has  said  he  broke  not  because  of  his  philosophy,  but  because  of  a 
disagreement  as  to  tactics.     What  is  the  differentiation? 

Mr.  Chambers.  It  is  not  of  very  great  importance,  but  Stalin  liad 
recently  come  to  power  in  Russia  in  the  Connnunist  Party.  Here  in 
the  United  States  something  entirely  new  happened  within  the  party. 
Until  then  there  had  always  been  a  majority  and  a  minority  group 
whose  equal  rights  in  debate  vrere  recognized.  With  the  coming  to 
power  of  Stalin  and  the  Browder-Foster  group  in  the  United  States, 
which  represented  the  Stalin  group,  that  was  no  longer  true.  Democ- 
racy disappeared  from  the  Comnuniist  Party  and  the  minority  group 
was  liquidated.     In  fact,  it  was  the  majority  group. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Was  that  group  that  was  liquidated  the 
Trotskyites  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No  ;  it  was  the  Lovestoneites. 

Mr.  Hebert.  But  as  I  understand  your  testimony,  under  Lenin  you 
had  democracy;  is  that  right? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No. 

INIr.  Hebert.  You  said  with  the  coming  of  Stalin  democracy  was 
wiped  out. 

Mr.  Chambers.  There  was  in  the  Communist  Party  before  Stalin 
the  possibility  of  open  argument  between  two  groups  of  Communists, 
so  that  within  the  Communist  framework  there  was  a  kind  of 
democracy. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  573 

Mr.  Hebekt.  You  only  quit  because  of  the  tactics  and  niecliaiiics 
of  the  party,  and  not  because  of  a  change  in  philosophy  ? 

Mr.  McDowell.  The  Lovestoneites  were  headed  by  Jay  Lovestone* 
Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Is  he  still  a  member  of  the  party? 
Mr.  Chambers.  He  was  expelled  in  1929. 

Mr.  Rankin.  If  it  had  not  been  for  those  changes  m  tactics,  would 
you  still  be  a  member  of  the  Connnunist  Party? 

Mr.  Chambers.  At  that  time  I  was  still  a  Communist,  and  I  did  not 
leave  because  I  had  ceased  to  be  a  Communist.  I  left  because  of  a 
difference  in  tactics  and  a  difference  in  atmosphere. 

Mr.  Rankix.  When  did  you  cease  to  be  a  Communist  because  of  your 
convictions  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  1937. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Was  Louis  Budenz  ever  with  you? 
Mr.  Chambers.  No. 
Mr.  Rankin.  Do  3^ou  know  him  ? 
Mr.  Chambers.  No. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  As  communism  is  now  directed  by  Stalin  from  Moscow 
and  as  his  tactics  are  now  carried  out,  how  would  you  differentiate 
between  Stalin's  communism  and  Hitler's  nazism? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  should  find  that  very  difficult  to  do.  I  would  saj 
that  they  are  most  totalitarian  forms  of  government,  if  you  like.  I  feel 
quite  unable  to  answer  that. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Would  you  say  they  are  both  different  facets  of 
fascism  ? 

Mr.  Chambers;  I  think  that  would  lead  us  into  a  very  long  discus- 
sion. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Would  you  say  the  differentiation  between  fascism  and 
communism  is  a  distinction  without  a  difference? 

Mr.  Chambers.  It  can  be  said  loosely  that  communism  is  a  kind  of 
fascism,  I  think. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  It  is  pretty  hard  to  find  any  basic  distinction  between 
fascism  and  communism  as  communism  is  practiced  by  the  Stalinists 
in  JNIoscow  and  as  they  direct  the  activities  of  the  American  Communist 
Party. 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  think  you  have  raised  a  philosophical  and  intel- 
lectual point  which  would  require  almost  a  book.  It  would  require 
almost  a  book  to  develop  and  interpret  that. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Do  you  know  of  any  vital  distinction  between  com-- 
munism  as  practiced  in  Russia  and  fascism  as  we  generally  understand 
it  to  be  ?    I  know  the  committee  would  be  very  glad  to  find  that  distinc- 
tion because  we  have  been  unable  to  get  it  from  any  other  witness. 
Mr.  Chambers.  I  don't  feel  qualified  to  emphasize  the  distinction, 
Mr.  Rankin.  Communism  is  atheistic,  is-  it  not  ? 
Mr.  Chambers.  It  is. 

Mr.  Rankin.  One  of  its  basic  principles  is  the  wiping  out  of  the 
Christian  church  throughout  the  world? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Wiping  out  of  all  religion.  Every  Communist  is 
ipso  facto  an  atheist. 

Mr.  Rankin.  It  is  also  dedicated  to  the  destruction  of  this  Govern- 
ment and  to  the  wiping  out  of  the  American  way  of  life ;  is  that  cor- 
rect? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes ;  it  can  be  said. 


574  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Kankix.  And  also  the  wii:)ing  out  of  what  it  calls  the  capitalist 
system '? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Certainly. 

Mr.  Kankin.  The  right  to  own  private  property  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  is  true. 

Mr.  Rankin.  In  other  words,  communism  would  make  a  slave  of 
every  American  man,  woman,  and  chilc^  excepting  the  commissars 
that  dominated  them ;  is  that  correct  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  is. 

Mr.  Rankin.  And  would  close  every  Christian  church  in  America? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Well,  the  Russian  Church  seems  to  have  some  kind 
-of  unhappy  existence. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  understand,  but  you  know  that  they  closed  every 
church  in  Russia  and  they  were  closed  at  the  time  you  quit  the  Com- 
munist Party  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  It  can  be  said  quite  simply  that  communism  is  com- 
pletely atheistic  and  is  the  enemy  of  religion  in  every  form. 

Mr.  Rankin.  In  other  words,  they  would  close  all  churches  of  all 
iinds  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Mohammedan  mosques,  Jewish  synagogues,  as  well 
as  Christian  churches'. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Go  ahead,  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chambers,  Miss  Bentley  testified  last  Saturday, 
and  she  named  Harry  Dexter  White  as  a  person  who  worked  with  the 
espionage  group.    Did  you  know  Harry  Dexter  Wliite? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes,  I  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Is  Harry  Dexter  White  a  Communist?  Was  he  a 
Communist,  to  your  knowledge? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  can't  say  positively  that  he  was  a  registered  mem- 
ber of  the  Communist  Party,  but  he  certainly  was  a  fellow  traveler  so 
far  within  the  fold  that  his  not  being  a  Communist  would  be  a  mistake 
on  both  sides. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  go  to  Harry  Dexter  White  when  you  left  the 
Communist  Party  and  ask  him  also  to  leave  the  party? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  considered  him  to  be  a  Communist  Party  mem- 
ber, then  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Well,  I  accepted  an  easy  phrasing.  I  didn't  ask  him 
to  leave  the  Communist  Party,  but  to  break  away  from  the  Communist 
movement. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  did  he  tell  you? 

Mr.  Chambers.  He  left  me  apparently  in  a  very  agitated  frame  of 
mind,  and  I  thought  I  had  succeeded.    Apparently  I  did  not. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Did  you  later  have  reason  to  feel  that  you  had  failed 
in  that  effort? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Miss  Bentley's  testimony  and  certain  things  I  heard 
from  other  sources  assured  me  that  I  had  failed. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Assured  you  that  you  had  failed  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  McDowell.  I  think  we  should  have  Mr.  White  identified. 

Mr.  Stripling.  He  was  identified  in  the  record  the  other  day  as 
Assistant  Secretary  of  the  Treasury  and  head  of  Monetary  Research. 

Mr.  Hebert.  This  man  White  is  the  same  man  Wliite  Miss  Bentlej' 
talked  about;  is  that  correct? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  575 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT,  His  employment  record  was  read  into  the  record  on 
Saturday. 

Mr.  Striplixo.  Do  you  know  an  individual  by  the  name  of  Harold 
Glasser,  who  was  associated  with 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  think  I  was  introduced  once  or  twice  to  Glasser. 

Mr.  Stripling.  He  was  also  named,  Mr.  Chairman,  by  Miss  Bentley. 

How  many  times  would  you  say  you  met  Victor  Perlo? 

Mr.  Chambers.  It  would  be  very  difficult  to  say,  but  I  knew  him  over 
a  period  of 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  yon  know  him  rather  well? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Not  very  well.  I  didn't  specially  like  him.  He 
seemed  to  be  a  rather  sullen  and  shallow  kind  of  man. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Do  yon  know  where  he  came  from  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No;  I  don't. 

]\Ir.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  an  individual  named  Owen  Latimer? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No ;  I  don't. 

Mr.  Mundt.  You  met  Victor  Perlo  at  this  same  Henry  Collins' 
apartment  where  you  met  these  other  gentlemen? 

Mr.  Chaivibers.  That  is  right.  It  is,  in  fact,  the  only  place  I  ever 
saw  him.  I  might  add  in  that  group  he  was  a  very  minor  figure. 
There  was  some  kind  of  a  struggle  going  on  among  these  people  for 
headship  of  the  group  because  at  one  point  Nathan  Witt  resigned,  I 
suppose,  and  the  headship  of  this  group  was  elected  within  the  group. 

Mr.  Mundt.  After  your  period  as  courier  at  the  time  Miss  Bentley 
took  over,  at  that  time  Perlo  had  attained  the  leadership  of  one  group 
and  Mr.  Silvermaster  the  other,  which  was  the  result,  I  presume,  of  the 
struggle  you  mentioned  taking  place  within  the  apparatus  at  that  time; 
is  that  correct  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No  ;  I  don't  think  there  was  any  connection.  The 
rivalry  was  between  John  Abt  and  Victor  Perlo,  and,  as  I  remember 
it,  the  only  person  who  voted  in  that  meeting  for  Perlo  was  Perlo. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Who  was  the  actual  head  of  the  group  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  The  actual  head  of  the  group — well,  the  elected  head 
of  the  group  was  either  Witt  at  one  time  or  Abt,  and  the  organizer  of 
the  group  had  been  Harold  Ware.  The  head  of  the  whole  business  was 
J.  Peters. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Harold  Ware  was  employed  in  the  AAA,  was  he  not  ? 

Mr.  Chaisibers.  I  don't  know  whether  he  was  or  not.  If  I  have 
known,  I  have  forgotten.     My  impression  is  he  wasn't. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  recall  what  happened  to  Harold  Ware  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  He  was  killed  in  an  automobile  accident. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Here  in  Washington? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No  ;  I  think  in  Pennsylvania. 

Mr.  Rankin.  What  was  his  real  name? 

Mr.  Chambers.  As  far  as  I  know,  Harold  Ware.     T  neve.r  knew  him. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  meet  Aubrey  Williams? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No;  I  never  did. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  say  you  are  now  with  Time  magazine  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Are  there  any  other  Communists  or  ex-Communists  in 
key  positions  with  that  magazine? 

Mr.  Chambers,  I  would  say  that,  like  the  American  Government, 
Time  magazine  has  had  its  problems  with  communism. 


576  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  mean  it  still  has  them  connected  with  it? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No;  I  think  being  a  smaller  enterprise  we  have  got 
rid  of  our  Communists. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  see  a  name,  William  Schlamm.  Do  you  know  that 
man? 

Mr.  Chamber^s.  William  Schlamm  was  an  Austrian  Communist  who 
broke  with  the  party  in  1929. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Is  he  connected  with  Time  magazine  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  He  is  connected  with  Time,  Inc.,  I  believe. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Time  magazine  has  been  rather  relentless  in  its  at- 
tacks on  this  committee  all  along,  and  I  was  wondering  what  was  the 
motive  behind  it.    Can  you  give  us  any  answer  to  that. 

Mr.  Chambers.  No;  I  don't  feel  qualified.  That  department  of  the 
magazine  in  wdiich  such  news  would  appear  I  am  not  connected  with. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  see.    Certainly  it  is  no  affection  for  communism. 

Mr.  S'lRiPLiNG.  You  said  j'ou  never  met  Aubrey  Williams? 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  is  true. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  hear  Aubrey  Williams'  name  discussed 
at  any  of  these  meetings? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  can't  say  definitely  that  I  did,  but  I  have  heard 
Communists  mention  Williams  as  a  friend  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Stripling.  But  3'ou  don't  know  whetlier  or  not  he  was  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No. 

Mr.  Stripling.  He  was  considered  by  Communists  to  be  friendly  to 
tlieir  cause? 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  is  true. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Did  you  hear  the  name  of  Clark  Foreman  mentioned? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No,  I  didn't. 
•     Mr.  Hebert.  At  any  time. 

Mr.  Chambers.  No  ;  I  am  not  familiar  with  that  name. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Can  you  at  this  time  elaborate  more  on  your  connec- 
tion with  White? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes ;  I  can. 

Mr.  Hebert.  In  other  words,  you  actually  talked  to  AVhite? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes ;  of  course. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  discussed  matters  with  him.  I  think  it  would  be 
of  interest  to  the  committee  to  know  what  you  discussed  with  him. 

Mr.  Chambers.  After  I  had  been  in  Washington  a  while  it  was  very 
clear  that  some  of  the  members  of  these  groups  were  going  places  in 
the  Government. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  year  is  this? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  should  think  about  19;')().  One  of  them  clearly  was 
Alger  Hiss,  and  it  was  believed  that  Henry  Collins  also  might  go 
farther.  Another  w^as  Lee  Pressman.  So  it  was  decided  by  Peters, 
or  by  Peters  in  conference  with  people  whom  I  don't  know,  that  we 
would  take  these  people  out  of  that  a])paratus  and  separate  them  from 
it  physically — that  is,  they  would  have  no  further  intercourse  with 
the  peo])le  there — but  they  would  be  connected  still  with  that  apparatus 
and  with  Peters  through  me. 

It  was  also  decided  to  add  to  this  group  certain  other  people  who 
had  not  originally  been  in  that  api)aratus.  One  of  those  people  was 
Harry  AYliite. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  577 

iVIr.  Rankin.  You  referred  to  a  man  a  while  ago  by  the  name  of 
Kramer. 

Mr.  Hehkkt.  ]Mr.  Rankin,  would  you  mind  letting  him  finish  with 
Mr.  White? 

Mr.  Rankin.  Very  well. 

Mr.  Chambers.  Do  you  care  to  question  me  about  White? 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  want  to  finish  concerning  White. 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  thought  I  had. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Was  he  considered  as  a  source  of  information  to  the 
Communist  cell  ? 

Mr,  Chambers.  No.  I  should  perhaps  make  the  point  that  these 
people  were  specifically  not  wanted  to  act  as  sources  of  information. 
These  people  were  an  elite  group,  an  outstanding  group,  which  it  was 
believed  would  rise  to  positions — as,  indeed,  some  of  them  did — notably 
Mr.  White  and  Mr.  Hiss — in  the  Government,  and  their  position  in 
the  Government  would  be  of  very  much  more  service  to  the  Communist 
Party - 

jMr.  Hebert.  In  other  words,  White  was  being  used  as  an  unwitting- 
dupe  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  would  scarcely  say  "unw^itting." 

Mr.  Hebert.  Did  he  know  what  he  was  being  used  for  ? 

Mr.  Cha^ibers.  I  doubt  w^hether  the  word  "used"  is  even  proper. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Employed? 

Mr.  Chambers.  He  was,  as  nearly  as  I  know,  perfectly  willing  to 
cooperate. 

Mr.  Hejjert.  In  your  connection  with  White  and  your  conversations 
with  him — you  met  him  personally  and  talked  with  him? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  From  your  conversations  with  him  and  his  knowl- 
edge of  the  information  that  the  Communist  group  was  securing,  or 
attempting  to  secure,  and  liis  knowledge  of  the  whole  set-up,  the  whole 
apparatus,  w(juld  you  say  from  that — in  your  opinion — that  would 
elicit  from  him  the  exclamation  over  the  week  end,  "This  is  fantastic ! 
It  is  sliocking !"  that  he  w^as  connected  with  the  Communist  group? 

Mr.  Chambers.  He  made  this  remark  when  he  was  asked 

Mr.  HEiiERT.  It  was  reported  in  the  press  that  when  informed  of 
Miss  Bentley's  charges  against  him — and,  mind  you.  Miss  Bentley 
says  she  never  saw^  White  and  cannot  connect  White  except  by  hear- 
say evidence — that  when  he  was  confronted  wnth  Miss  Bentley's  testi- 
mony and  the  statement  she  made  before  the  committee  last  Saturday, 
his  exclamation  was  "It  is  fantastic  !     It  is  shocking !" 

From  your  information  and  personal  knowledge,  do  you  think  that 
is  a  spontaneous  outburst  of  surprise  that  he  was  connected  with  such 
a  group  in  any  way,  even  by  remote  control,  as  Mr.  Rankin  has  said? 

Mr.  Chambers.  After  my  evidence — my  testimony — I  should  think 
he  would  have  to  find  some  more  adjectives. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chambers,  would  you  say,  then,  that  the  pur- 
pose of  the  Communist  Party 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Stripling,  is  he  finished  with  his  questions  in  regard 
to  Mr.  White? 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  want  to  make  an  observation  in  connection  with 
what  he  said. 

Mr.  Nixon.  All  right ;  and  I  want  to  follow  that. 

80408 — 48 6 


578  COMMUNIST   ESPIOXAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  want  to  get  clear  the  status  of  tliis  select  group 
that  infiltrated  the  Government. 

Would  you  say  the  purpose  was,  on  the  part  of  the  Communists, 
to  establish  a  beachhead  or  a  base  from  which  they  could  move  further 
into  the  Government  and  obtain  positions  of  power,  influence,  and 
possible  espionage? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  would  say  power  and  influence  were  the  para- 
mount objectives.  •  . 

Mr.  Stripling.  At  that  time? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes;  at  that  time.  You  must  remember  you  are 
dealing  with  the  underground  here  in  a  formative  stage,  with  Com- 
munists many  of  whom  had  not  been  in  the  party  more  than  a  year 
or  so. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Mr.  Chambers,  I  want  to  ask  you  about  this  man  you 
referred  to  a  while  ago,  Charles  Kramer.     How  do  you  spell  that? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  believe  it  is  spelled  K-r-a-m-e-r. 

Mr.  Rankin.  What  did  you  say  his  real  name  was  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Krevitsky. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Where  did  he  come  from? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  haven't  the  remotest  idea. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Was  he  a  Communist  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  did  hear.  I  think  he  came  from  New  York  City. 
He  was  an  NYU  man. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Was  he  a  Communist  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Of  course. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Is  that  the  same  man  who  it  was  testified  worked  in 
the  office  of  Senator  Pepper  at  one  time  and  Senator  Kilgore  at 
another  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  believe  he  was ;  yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  he  was  one  of  the  men 
connected  with  the  trumping  up  the  persecution  of  Senator  Bilbo? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  am  not  familiar  with  that. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  knew  tliat  Communists  picketed  Senator  Bilbo's 
boarding  house  within  two  or  three  blocks  of  the  Senate  Office  Build- 
ing for  months  and  months,  did  you  not? 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  object  to  the  designation  of  ""boarding  house."  That 
is  an  apartment  house,  in  which  I  live. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Very  well.  We  will  call  it  an  apartment  house  since 
Mr.  Mundt  objects  to  calling  it  a  boarding  house.  However,  he  did 
have  to  hold  his  nose  in  order  to  get  through  that  picket  line. 

You  said  a  moment  ago  when  you  quit  the  Communist  Party  you 
carried  a  gun. 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Rx\NKiN.  Why  did  you  carry  that  gun? 

Mr.  CiixVMBERs.  I  carried  the  gun  because  I  believed  that  the  Com- 
munists might  attempt  to  kill  me. 

Mr.  Rankin.  That  is  their  program,  is  it,  disposing  of  the  men  who 
quit  the  Communist  line? 

Mr.  CiiAMP.ERS.  No;  I  wouldn't  say  it  was  an  invariable  program. 
They  never  did  kill  me. 

INIr.  Rankin.  I  understand;  but  you  were  prepared  for  it? 

Mr.  Chambers.  It  seemed  to  me  that  they  might  very  well  make 
the  attempt. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  579 

"Sir.  Raxkix.  You  were  doing  it  because  you  knew  your  life  was  in 
(lano;er? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Eankix.  And  you  knew  that  if  they  did  get  an  opportunity  to 
bump  you  oif  without  getting  caught,  tliat  would  probably  be  the 
course  Ihey  would  pursue  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  It  seemed  the  natural  thing. 

jMr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Chambers,  I  am  very  much  interested  in  trying  to 
check  the  career  of  Alger  Hiss.  I  know  nothing  about  Donald  Hiss ; 
but  as  a  member  of  the  Foreign  Affairs  Committee,  the  personnel  com- 
mittee, I  have  had  some  occasion  to  check  the  activities  of  Alger  Hiss 
while  he  was  in  the  State  Department. 

There  is  reason  to  believe  that  he  organized  within  that  Department 
one  of  the  Communist  cells  wdiich  endeavored  to  influence  our  Chinese 
policy  and  bring  about  the  condemnation  of  Chiang  Kai-shek,  which 
put  Marzani  in  an  important  position  there,  and  I  think  it  is  important 
to  know  what  happened  to  these  people  after  they  leave  the  Govern- 
ment.    Do  you  know  where  Alger  Hiss  is  employed  now  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  believe  Alger  Hiss  is  now  the  head  of  the  Carnegie 
Foundation  for  World  Peace. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  That  is  the  same  information  that  had  come  to  me-  and 
I  am  happy  to  have  it  confirmed.  Certainly  there  is  no  hope  for  world 
peace  under  the  leadership  of  men  like  Alger  Hiss. 

Mr,  Rankin.  Where  is  the  headquarters  of  that  organization? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  do  not  know. 

Mr.  ISIcDowELL.  New  York. 

Mr.  Rankix.  Under  the  New  York  FEPC  law,  you  can't  ask  this 
man  whether  he  is  a  Comnnniist  or  not,  or  where  he  came  from,  or  what 
his  name  was  before  it  was  changed.  You  can't  even  ask  for  his  photo- 
graph. Of  course,  he  can  get  into  an  institution  of  that  kind  in  New 
York,  l)ut  he  couldn't  do  it  in  Mississippi. 

Mr.  Chambers.  May  I  interrupt  ? 

Mr.  ]\Iux"DT.  Proceed. 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  think  Mr.  Donald  Hiss,  who  was  also  in  the  State 
Department,  is  now  in  Mr.  Corcoran's  law  firm. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  In  Washington? 

Mr.  Chambers.  In  Washington  ;'and  was  connected  with  the  negoti- 
ating of  the  loan  to  Poland. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Tommy  Corcoran,  of  the  Corcoran-Cohen  team? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  Do  you  know  where  any  of  the  other  seven  people  are 
employed  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No  ;  I  couldn't  say. 

Mr.  Raxkix'.  Right  at  that  point,  don't  you  think  Mr.  Carnegie,  the 
rich  Scotchman  that  developed  this  foundation,  would  turn  over  in  his 
grave  if  he  knew  that  kind  of  people  were  running  the  foundation? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  am  afraid  he  would. 

Mr.  McDowell.  I  w^ould  like  to  observe  to  the  committee  that — re- 
ferring back  to  Mr.  White,  who  was  surprised  and  shocked  at  the 
testimony  given  by  Miss  Bentley — that  the  Secretary  of  the  Treasury 
has  more  skilled  investigators  and  detectives  and  various  people  who 
are  supposed  to  be  able  to  develop  in^formation  than  any  other  depart- 
ment of  the  Government  except  the  Attorney  General ;  and  it  is  pass- 


580  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

ingly  strange  that  this  man  could  associate  and  be  connected  personally 
with  this  gang  of  international  conspirators  for  as  long  a  period  as  he 
was  and  then  still  not  know  what  he  was  doing. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Nixon. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Chambers,  you  indicated  that  9  years  ago  you  came 
to  Washington  and  reported  to  the  Government  authorities  concerning 
the  Communists  who  were  in  the  Government. 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  To  wdiat  Government  agency  did  you  make  that  report? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Isaac  Don  Levine,  who  is  now  the  editor  of  Plain 
Talk,  approached  the  late  Marvin  Mclntyre,  Mr.  Roosevelt's  secretary, 
I  believe,  and  asked  him  what  would  be  the  most  proper  form  in  which 
the  information  I  had  to  give  could  be  brought  before  President 
Roosevelt. 

Mr.  Mclntyre  told  Mr.  Levine  that  Mr.  A.  A.  Berle,  the  Assistant 
Secretary  of  State,  was  Mr.  Roosevelt's  man  in  intelligence  matters. 

I  then  went  to  see  Mr.  Berle  and  told  him  much  of  what  I  have  been 
telling  you. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  That  was  in  1937? 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  was  in  1939  about  2  days  after  the  Hitler- 
Stalin  pact. 

Mr.  Nixon.  When  you  saw  Mr.  Berle  then  did  you  discuss  generally 
tlie  people  that  were  in  Government,  or  did  you  name  specific  namas  ? 

Mr,  Chambers.  I  named  specific  names,  Mr.  Hiss  among  others. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  you  name  Mr.  Witt? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  certainly  did. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Pressman? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Mr.  Pressman. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Perlo  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  think  so. 

Mr.  NixoN.  Mr.  Kramer? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Probably. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Abt?. 

Mr.  Chambers.  Certainly. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Ware  ? 

Mr,  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Collins? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes,  I  think  so. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  White? 

Mr,  Chambers.  No;  because  at  that  time  I  thought  that  I  had 
broken  Mr.  White  awav,  and  it  was  about  4  years  later  tliat  I  first  told 
the  P^BI  about  Mr.  White. 

Mr.  Nixox.  You  told  the  FBI  4  years  later  when  you  had  become 
convinced  you  had  not  broken  him  away  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Collins  was  also  in  the  State  Department? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes;  I  think  he  went  in  during  the  war. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  He  belonged  to  the  Alger  Hiss  cell  in  the  State  Depart- 
ment ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  He  did. 

Mr.  McDoAVELL.  Mr.  Berle,  is  he  the  present  head  of  the  Liberal 
Party  of  New  York  State? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  am  not  sure  whether  he  is  or  not.    " 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  581 

Mr.  MGDo^^■ELL.  Wiis  he  the  A.  A.  Berle  who  became  an  Ambassador 
to  one  of  the  South  American  countries? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Brazil,  I  believe.  He  is  an  anti-Communist,  it 
should  be  said,  and  a  very  intelligent  man. 

Mr.  Raxkix.  Mr.  Berle? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Mr.  Berle  is  an  anti-Communist. 

Mr.  Nixox.  ]SIr.  Chambers,  were  you  informed  of  any  action  that 
was  taken  as  a  result  of  your  report  to  the  Government  at  that  time? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No;  I  was  not.  I  assumed  that  action  would  be 
taken  right  away  which  was,  of  course,  rather  naive  of  me;  and  it 
wasn't  until  a  great  deal  later  that  I  discovered  apparently  nothing 
had  been  done. 

Mr.  Nixox.  It  is  significant,  I  think,  that  the  report  was  made  2 
days  after  the  Stalin-Hitler  pact  at  the  time,  in  other  w^ords,  when  we 
could  not  say  by  any  stretch  of  the  imagination  that  the  Russians  were 
(jur  allies;  and  yet,  apparently,  no  action  was  taken. 

Mr.  Chambers.  Well,  we  are  here  in  an  area  of  government  which  I 
am  not  qualified  to  talk  about. 

Mr.  Raxkix.  What  is  that  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  We  are  here  in  an  area  of  government  policies  I 
am  not  qualified  to  talk  about. 

Mr.  Nixox.  I  understand. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  At  the  time  you  reported  these  names  to  Mr.  Berle,  you 
had  reason  to  believe  that  Communist  Russia  might  well  become  an 
active  enemy  of  this  co'untry  rather  than  a  friend  through  that  Stalin- 
Hitler  Pact"? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  never  supposed  Russia  at  any  time  was  anything 
but  an  enemy  of  this  country.  It  is  an  enemy  of  all  democratic  coun- 
tries. 

Mr.  Raxkix.  I  would  like  to  ask  about  this  statement.  In  your 
statement  which  vou  read  to  the  committee  awhile  ago  vou  use  this 
statement : 

"Disloyalty  is  a  matter  of  principle  with  every  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party.'' 

That  was  true  back  in  the  days  when  you  were  a  member,  was  it? 

Mr.  Chambers.  It  was  true  from  the  time  of  the  First  International. 

Mr.  Raxkix.  You  knew  it  was  true  then? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Of  course. 

Mr.  Raxkix.  You  say  the  Communist  Party  exists  for  the  specific 
purpose  of  overthrowing  the  Government  at  the  opportune  time  by 

Mr.  Raxkix.  Now,  you  mentioned  a  while  ago  Kramer.  He  is 
a  member  is  dedicated  to  this  purpose.  That  was  the  case  when  you 
were  a  member  and  that  is  the  case  today  ? 

^Ir.  Chambers.  That  has  been  the  case  for  just  100  j^ears. 

^Ir.  Raxkix.  In  other  words,  every  Communist  who  is  now  meeting 
in  New  York  is  dedicated  to  the  destruction  of  this  Government? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes.      I  refer  you  to  the  words  of  INIarx  and  Lenin. 

Mr.  Raxkix.  Now,  you  menticmed  a  while  ago  Kramer.  He  is 
the  fellow  Krevitsky  we  referred  to  before? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Mr.  Chairman,  may  I  ask  the  witness: 

Did  you  know  a  man  named  Saposs? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes;  I  know  of  him.  I  do  not  know  tliat  he  is  a 
Connnunist. 


582  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr,  Hebert.  What  do  you  know  about  his  activities? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  know  nothing  about  his  activities.  I  knew  him 
3^ears  ago  as  the  author  of  a  rather  dull  book  on  labor  problems. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  don't  link  him  with  these  activities  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  was  Mr.  Berle's  attitude  when  vou  turned  this 
information  over  to  him? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Considerable  excitement. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  did  he  tell  you  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  don't  know  that  he  made  any  very  sensational 
comment,  but  he  said  among  other  things  that  we  absolutely  have  to 
have  a  clean  Government  service  because  we  are  faced  with  the  pros- 
pect of  war.  I  am  paraphrasing  that.  That  is  not  an  exact  quota- 
tion. 

Mr.  Hebert.  In  view  of  the  statements  of  Mr.  Chambers  at  this 
time  may  I  suggest  that  this  committee  invite  Mr.  Berie  to  come  here 
so  we  can  get  the  background  and  also  corroborate  this  testimony.  I 
think  it  is  most  important  that  every  chain  be  linked  with  the  other 
chain  in  this  situation. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Is  he  in  this  country  ? 

Mr.  Hebert.  If  he  is  in  the  cou.ntry.  he  should  be  invited  to  come. 
I  have  every  reason  to  respect  the  integrity  of  Mr.  Berle. 

Mr.  Mundt.  The  Committee  will  take  that  up  in  executive  session. 

Mr.  Rankin.  ]\lr.  Berle  testified  befoi'e  the  committee  last  year. 

Mr.  Hebert.  During  tlie  discussions  on  the  Mundt-Nixon  bill.  But 
the  purpose  now  is  to  have  him  corroborate  this.  What  I  am  most 
interested  in  is  that  this  committee  is  not  witch  hunting  or  Ked  bait- 
ing, but  is  trying  to  get  the  facts  of  what  is  going  on.  Since  this  is 
a  public  hearing,  I  think  all  these  matters  should  be  brouglit  out  in 
full  public  gaze  and  for  full  public  interpretation  and  appreciation 
of  what  we  are  trying  to  do;  and  for  that  reason  I  think  every  indi- 
vidual mentioned  should  be  brought  before  the  committee  to  either 
corroborate  the  testimony  or  impeach  it. 

Mr.  Berle's  attention  was  directed  to  this  matter,  and  I  think  it  is 
of  interest  to  the  connnittee  and  the  people  at  large  to  know  why 
methods  were  pursued. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Chambers,  you  indicated  a  moment  ago  that  it  was 
approximately  4  years  after  you  had  spoken  to  Mr.  Berle  that  you 
went  before  the  FBI. 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  NixoN.  At  that  time  you  did  give  the  FBI  information  concern- 
ing White? 

Mr.  Chambers.  White,  that  is  right. 

Mr.  NixON.  Also  did  I  understand  you  to  say  that  Donald  Hiss 
in  his  connection  with  Mr.  Corcoran  was  active  in  negotiating  the  loan 
to  Poland? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  have  been  told  that. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Is  that  all,  Mr.  Nixon  ? 

Mr.  NixoN.  Yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Mr.  Hebert  mentioned  a  while  ago  the  fact  that  this 
committee  had  been  accused  of  ''Red  baiting."  It  has  only  been  accused 
of  "Red  baiting"  by  the  Reds,  their  stooges,  and  fellow  travelei-s. 
No  intelligent  American  who  Imows  the  facts  has  ever  accused  this 
committee  of  "Red  baiting." 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  583 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Any  other  questions? 

Mv.  Hebert.  May  I  pursue  just  one  more? 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  is  your  educational  background? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  went  to  tlie  public  schools  and  then  went  to  Co- 
lumbia University  for  a  year  and  a  half. 

Mr.  Hebert.  It  is  interesting  to  note  that  every  time  we  talk  about 
communism  we  hear  about  Columbia  University. 

Mr.  CnA3iBERs.  There  wasn't  any  in  Columbia  at  that  time.  I  be- 
came a  Communist  after  I  left  the  university. 

Mr.  Kankix.  How  about  comnumism  in  that  institution  now? 

jNIr.  Chambers.  I  am  not  qualified  to  discuss  it. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  became  a  Communist  through  no  persuasion  of 
anybodv  else  but  purely  through  your  own  conclusions,  in  trying  to 
follow  jihilosophical  thinking — you  thought  it  was  something  to  make 
a  better  world,  to  make  the  world  a  better  place  to  live  in,  and  nobody 
persuaded  you  to  become  a  Communist ;  is  that  right  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  is  true. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Were  you  familiar  Avith  the  American  history  and 
American  government  during  your  elementary  schooling? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Did  that  impress  you? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  threw  that  over? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  had  reached  the  conclusion,  particularly  as  a  result 
of  the  war,  that  the  whole  system  which  we  now  know  as  capitalist 
societ}^  was  in  a  very  bad  waj^  and  something  very  drastic  had  to  be 
done  to  keep  the  whole  thing  together. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  thought  it  was  a  new  system? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  thought  a  new  system  was  evolving. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Pursuing  INfr.  Rankin's  question,  in  connection  with 
your  statement  that  Conmiunists  are  disloyal  per  se,  did  you  consider 
yourself  disloyal  to  your  Government? 

Mr.  Chambp;rs.  Certainly. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  remained  an  American  citizen  and  yet  you  joined 
the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  All  Communists  do  that. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  are  an  intelligent  individual  and  well  educated. 
You  said  members  of  the  Communist  Party  were  disloyal.  Did  it  ever 
occur  to  you  that  you  were  disloyal  to  your  own  Government?  Why 
didn't  you  renounce  your  citizenship? 

Mr.  Chamber.  No  Communist  would  ever  think  of  doing  such  a 
thing. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  knew  you  were  being  disloyal  to  the  American 
Government  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  preferred  to  be  disloyal  to  gain  the  end  that  you 
thought  you  would  make  a  better  world  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Were  you  a  member  of  a  church  at  that  time? 

Mi\  Chambers.  No ;  I  was  not. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  never  had  been? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  am  now. 


584  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Raniv:in.  A  inenibei-  of  a  Christian  chuirli  now? 

Ml'.  Chajibers.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Before  releasing  the  witness,  the  Chair  would  like  to 
announce  that  we  have  gotten  in  touch  with  Mr.  Silverniaster,  who 
has  responded  to  our  subpena  and  is  in  the  city.  Now  he  claims  he 
has  asthma,  which  he  may  or  may  not  have,  because  I  can't  believe 
these  Communists,  but  since  he  claims  he  has  an  asthma  attack,  we 
are  going  to  defer  hearing  Mr.  Silvermaster  until  10:30  tomorrow 
morning. 

The  Chair  would  like  to  say,  Mr.  Chambers,  in  conclusion,  that  we 
sincerely  appreciate  the  testimony  you  have  given  here  today.  It 
is  a  tremendously  difficult  job  to  probe  the  thinking  of  the  American 
Communist  mind,  and  it  is  from  men  like  you,  Mr.  Budenz,  women 
like  Miss  Bentley,  who  have  been  down  into  the  valley  of  the  shadow 
and  seen  the  error  of  the  Communist  philosophy  and  had  the  courage 
and  good  patriotism  to  renounce  communism  openly  and  to  make 
available  to  the  law-enforcement  and  investigating  agencies  of  the 
(lovernment  your  information — it  is  because  of  that  that  slowly  but 
surely  Ave  are  piecing  together  this  pattern  of  the  Communist  con- 
spiracy and  helping  to  educate  a  rather  gullible  America  to  the  fact 
that  it  can  ha})pen  here  and  will  happen  here  unless  it  alerts  itself. 

Mr.  Chamhers.  It  is  happening  here. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  It  is  happening  here  now,  and  this  committee  and  the 
FBI  are  at  least  two  agencies  of  Government  doing  the  best  they  can 
at  the  moment  to  try  to  stop  it. 

We  appreciate  the  fact  that  it  is  not  a  pleasant  assignment  for 
you,  sir.  We  thank  you  very  much  for  coming  here  and  cooperating 
so  wholeheartedly  on  this  problem. 

Mr.  Chambers.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Rankin.  S])eaking  for  the  minority,  I  want  to  say  that  the 
gentleman  has  made  a  splendid  witness,  and  I  only  regret  that  every 
])atriotic  American  could  not  be  here  to  hear  his  testimony. 

Mr.  Chambers.  Thank  you,  sir. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  hope  that  the  other  Communists  who  hear  your  testi- 
mony will  change  their  minds  and  come  here  and  share  with  us  their 
thinking  and  their  ex])erience  also. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  failed  to  mention  one  fellow  a  while  ago  that 
in  my  mind  made  one  of  the  finest  witnesses  that  ever  came  here,  and 
that  was  a  Negro  by  the  name  of  Nowell  that  told  about  being  taken 
to  Moscow  and  learning  how  to  blow  up  bridges,  blow  up  waterworks 
and  powerhouses  and  carry  on  a  revolution  whenever  the  word  came 
down.     He  came  here  at  the  risk  of  his  "own  life,  gentlemen. 

Mr.  Chambers.  May  I  say  the  general  name  of  that  is  "zersotzuf- 
fusteil."     That  means  an  apparatus  for  destroying. 

Mr.  Rankin.  He  made  a  good  witness. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Thank  you  very  much  for  your  cooperation,  Mr.  Cham- 
bers.    The  committee  will  recess  until  tomorrow  morning  at  10:30. 

(Whereupon,  at  12:15  p.  m.,  the  committee  recessed  until  10:30 
a.  m.,  Wednesday,  August  4,  1948.) 


i 


HEARINGS  EEGARDING  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  IN 
THE  UNITED  STATES  GOVERNMENT 


WEDNESDAY,   AUGUST   4.    1948 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 

Committee  on  Un-American  Acttvities, 

Washington,,  D.  C. 

The  committee  met,  pursuant  to  notice,  at  10 :  30  a.  m.,  in  the 
caucus  room,  Okl  House  Office  Building,  Hon.  Karl  E.  Mundt 
presiding. 

Committee  members  present :  Representatives  Karl  E.  ISIundt,  John 
McDowell,  Richard  M.  Nixon.  John  E.  Rankin,  J.  Hardin  Peterson, 
and  F.  p]dward  Hebert. 

Staff  members  present:  Robert  E.  Striplmg,  chief  investigator; 
Louis  J.  Russell,  William  A.  "VVHieeler,  Robert  B.  Gaston,  Donald 
Appell,  investigators;  Benjamin  Mandel,  director  of  research;  and 
A.  S.  Poore,  editor,  for  the  committee. 

Mr.  Mundt.  The  committee  will  come  to  order,  please. 

Before  proceeding  with  the  hearing,  the  Chair  would  like  to  read 
two  telegrams  which  have  been  received  this  morning  in  response  to 
the  statement  made  by  the  committee  that  we  would  be  glad  to  hear 
anybody  whose  names  have  been  mentioned  during  these  hearings, 
that  we  would  accord  such  persons  the  same  opportunity  to  testify  in 
public  and  before  the  press  as  the  hearings  at  which  their  names  are 
placed  into  the  record. 

We  have  received  only  2  requests  so  far  from  the  25  or  30  people 
whose  names  have  been  mentioned.  I  shall  read  these  two  telegrams 
at  this  time. 

The  first  is  from  Pittsburgh : 

Charges  by  Miss  Bentley  apparently  directed  against  us  are  shocking  and 
completely  untrue.  The  woman  is  entirely  unknown  to  us  and  in  all  fairness 
we  urgently  request  earliest  possible  opportunity  to  testify  publicly  and  under 
oath  to  the  utter  falsity  of  her  charges.  It  is  our  earnest  hope  that  as  much 
public  attention  will  be  given  to  clearing  those  that  are  innocent  as  has  been 
given  to  these  sensational  allegations. 

Signed,  "Dr.  and  Mrs.  Bela  Gold,  619  South  Crest,  Pittsburgh,  Pa." 

I  think  the  testimony  taken  dealt  with  the  doctor  and  Mrs.  William 
Gold,  but  they  are  probably  the  same  people. 

Mr.  Stripling.  William  and  Sonia  Gold. 

Mr,  Mundt.  We  assume  these  are  the  same  people  and  we  will  be 
glad  to  hear  them  in  i^ublic  session  as  soon  as  Ave  can  arrange  the 
hearing. 

The  second  telegram  comes  from  New  York : 

My  attention  has  been  called  by  representatives  of  the  press  to  statements 
made  about  me  before  your  committee  this  morning  by  one  Whittaker  Chambers. 
I  do  not  know  Mr.  Chambers  and  insofar  as  I  am  aware  have  never  laid  eyes 

585 


586  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

on  him.  There  is  no  basis  for  the  statements  made  about  me  to  your  committee. 
I  would  appreciate  it  if  you  would  make  this  telegram  a  part  of  your  com- 
mittee's record,  and  I  would  further  appreciate  the  opportunity  to  appear  before 
jour  committee  to  make  these  statements  formally  and  under  oath.  I  shall  be 
in  Washington  on  Thursday  and  hope  that  that  will  be  a  convenient  time  from 
the  committee's  point  of  view  for  me  to  appear. 

Signed,  "Alger  Hiss." 

The  committee  will  hear  Alger  Hiss  in  public  testimony  tomorrow 
morning  at  10 :  30. 

And  now,  Mr.  Stripling,  who  is  your  first  witness  this  morning? 

Mr.  Stripling.  The  first  witness,  Mr.  Chairman,  will  be  Mr.  Nathan 
Gregory  Silvermaster.  However,  before  proceeding  I  would  like  to 
read  a  brief  statement. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  may  read  it. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  Public  Law  601  of  the  Seventy-ninth 
Congress,  second  session,  and  House  Resolution  5,  of  the  Eightieth 
Congress,  provide  the  authority  for  the  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities,  United  States  House  of  Representatives. 

Public  Law  601  (sec.  121,  subsec.  (q)  (2) )  states : 

Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  as  a  whole  or  by  subcommitteee  is 
authorized  to  make  from  time  to  time  Investigations  of  (i)  the  extent,  character, 
and  objects  of  un-American  propaganda  activities  in  the  United  States;  (ii) 
the  diffusion  within  the  United  States  of  subversive  and  un-American  propa- 
ganda that  is  instigated  from  foreign  countries  or  of  a  domestic  origin  and 
attacks  the  principle  of  the  form  of  government  as  guaranteed  by  our  Constitu- 
tion ;  and  (iii)  all  other  qnestions  in  relation  thereto  that  would  aid  Congress  in 
any  necessary  remedial  legislation. 

Pursuant  to  this  mandate  the  committee  has  been  conducting  an 
investigation  in  the  past  several  months  into  alleged  Communist  in- 
filtration, of  Communist  agents,  into  the  Federal  Government  and 
tiie  operation  within  the  Government  of  certain  persons  who  were 
collecting  information  to  be  turned  over  to  a  foreign  government. 

The  hearing  this  morning  is  for  the  purpose  of  pursuing  this  in- 
vestigation. ,  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster,  a  former  employee  of 
the  Government,  who  was  subpenaed  to  appear  before  the  Committee 
on  Un-American  Activities  on  May  25,  1948,  is  before  the  committee 
this  morning  in  connection  with  the  above-mentioned  inquiry.  All 
questions  propounded  to  Mr.  Silvermaster  will  be  pertinent  to  the  in- 
quiry and  he  shall  be  required  to  answer  them. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Mr.  Stripling,  what  you  are  reading  there  is  from 
the  rules  of  the  House,  is  it  not? 

Mr.  Stripling.  That  is  Public  Law  601,  Mr.  Rankin,  adopted  as 
rules  of  the  House  beginning  with  the  Eightieth  Congress. 

Mr.  Rankin.  That  was  my  resolution  to  create  this  committee  as 
a  standing  committee  of  the  House. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  believe  that  is  the  language;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Is  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster  in  the  room  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  He  is  on  the  witness  stand. 

Will  you  stand  and  be  sworn? 

Mj-.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Silvermaster,  will  you  stand  and  be  sworn,  please? 

i)o  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  testimony  you  are  about  to  give 
will  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help 
you  God  ? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  may  be  seated. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  587 

TESTIMONY  OF  NATHAN  GREGORY  SILVERMASTER 

Mr.  SxRiPLiNd.  Mr.  Silvermaster,  are  you  accompanied  by  counsel? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  counsel  please  rise?  AVould  you  identify 
A'ourself  first,  please? 

Mr.  Reix.  David  Rein,  1105  K  Street,  Washington,  D.  C. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Do  vou  desire  counsel,  Mr.  Silvermaster? 

Mr.  SiLATERMASTER.  Yes,  slr. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Mr.  Rein  is  your  counsel? 

Mr.  Silver:master.  Mr.  Rein  is  my  counsel. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Is  that  agreeable  with  the  chairman  ? 

]Mr.  MuxDT.  That  is  jierfectly  all  right. 

Mr.  SIL^T.RMASTER.  Mr.  Chairman,  may  I  have  your  permission  to 
read  the  prei^ared  statement  before  this  committee? 

Mr.  MuxDT.  You  will  sometime  during  the  course  of  the  hearing, 
that  is  correct.  We  want  to  identify  you  first  as  the  witness,  but  you 
will  be  given  a  chance  to  read  the  statement. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Will  you  state  your  full  name? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  My  full  name  is  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  When  and  where  were  you  born  ? 

Mr.  Sil%'ermaster.  I  was  born  in  Odessa,  Russia,  in  the  year  1898. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  What  is  your  present  address? 

Mr.  Sil^t:rmaster.  My  present  address  is  Harvey  Cedars,  N.  J. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  suggest  that  we  examine  his  state- 
ment, that  he  submit  his  statement  to  the  Chair  at  this  time  before 
proceeding. 

Mr.  MtixDT.  Very  well. 

(The  statement  was  submitted  and  examined.) 

Mr.  JNliTXDT.  The  statement  is  perfectly  pertinent  to  the  inquiry 
and  may  be  read  at  the  proper  time. 

Mr.  Rankix.  Let  me  call  attention  to  a  discrepancy  there. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  We  will  go  into  the  discrepancies  at  a  later  time. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  There  is  one  portion  I  would  like  to  call  attention 
to.  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  I  tliink  we  probably  should  take  the  statement  as  a 
whole  and  not  out  of  context.  We  had  better  wait  until  the  proper 
time. 

Mr.  Stripling.  The  witness  indicates  he  is  not  going  to  testify,  Mr. 
Chairman. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  We  will  cross  that  bridge  when  we  come  to  it.  Pro- 
ceed with  the  questioning.  We  will  have  the  statement  read  at  the 
proper  time. 

Mr.  Stripling.  The  chairman  says  you  may  read  your  statement  at 
the  proper  time  and  Ave  will  proceed  with  the  questioning. 

Mr.  Silvermaster,  you  appeared  before  this  committee  on  May  25, 
]948,  didyounot? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  That  is  correct. 

^Ir.  Stripling.  In  executive  session. 

Mr.  Silatsrmaster.  Executive  session. 

Mr.  Stripling.  At  the  conclusion  of  your  testimony  on  that  date 
you  were  advised  that  the  subpena  which  had  been  served  upon  you 
calling  for  your  appearance  before  the  cemmittee  was  continued  in 
effect.     Is  that  true? 


588  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  That  is  true. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  are  appearing  before  the  committee  today  by- 
virtue  of  a  telegram  sent  to  you  on  August  2,  1948.  which  called  for 
your  appearance  before  the  committee  on  August  3,  1948? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  That  is  true. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  first  arrive  in  the  United  States,  Mr. 
Silvermaster  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER,    III  1915. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  was  the  port  of  entry  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Sail  Francisco,  Calif. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  have  a  brother  by  the  name  of  Arkady  Sil- 
vermaster ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  does  he  reside  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Los  Augeles. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  have  a  sister  by  the  name  of  Pauline  Wogg? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  does  she  reside  at  the  present  time  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Ill  Sail  Francisco. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Are  you  married,  Mr.  Silvermaster? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  aiii  married. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  was  your  wife's  maiden  name  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  My  wife's  maiden  name  was  Helen  Petrova 
Witte. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Silvermaster,  would  you  furnish  the  commit- 
tee with  your  record  of  employment  since  your  arrival  in  the  United 
States,  in  chronological  order,  insofar  as  possible,  to  the  best  of  your 
recollection  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  May  I  read  the  statement  at  this  point,  Mr. 
Chairman? 

Mr.  MuNnT.  Not  at  this  point.  You  may  refer  to  any  notes  you 
want  to  as  far  as  answering  that  particular  question  is  concerned. 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  give  a  very  brief  summary  of  my  employment 
record  with  the  Government  in  the  statement.  If  the  committee 
wishes,  I  can  elaborate  on  my  employment  record  in  general  more 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr-  Chairman,  perhaps  if  he  will  give  his  em- 
ployment record  with  the  Federal  Government  and  limit  it  to  that, 
that  will  be  satisfactory. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Limit  your  answer  to  the  employment  witli  the  Federal 
Government. 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  began  my  employment  with  the  Federal  G(A'- 
ernment  in  Aujjiist  of  1985.  I  came  to  Washington  to  accept  a  posi- 
tion with  the  Resettlement  Administration,  offered  me  by  Dr.  George 
Mitchell,  at  that  time  Director  of  the  Labor  Division  of  the  Resettle- 
ment Administration.  I  was  with  the  Resettlement  Administration 
in  the  capacity  of  labor  economist  from  1935  to  around  1938,  with 
maybe  some  minor  discrepancies  as  to  dates.  I  do  not  recollect  them, 
but  they  will  be  close  enough. 

In  1938  or  thereabouts,  on  the  basis  of  a  civil-service  examination 
at  which  I  was  one  of  the  top  candidates,  I  received  employment  with 
the  Maritime  Labor  Board  and  served  as  the  chief  economist  for  that 
Board.    In  1939  I  transferred  to  the  Farm  Securitv  Administration 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  589 

to  accept  a  position  there  as  Director  of  the  Labor  Division  of  Farm 
Security  Achiiinistration,  a  position  which  I  held  from  1939  to  1944. 
During  this  period  for  several  months,  between  1941  and  1942, 1  was 
on  the  detail  with  the  Board  of  Economic  Warfare,  where  I  helped  to 
or<ranize  and  to  supervise  the  work  of  the  Europe  and  Africa  Division 
of  that  organization. 

I  might  mention  that  in  the  Farm  Security  Administration,  Labor 
Division,  I  was  largely  responsible  for  developing  and  organizing  the 
program  for  the  migratory  farm  workers.  That  was  the  principal 
work  in  Farm  Security  Administration. 

During  the  war  my  principal  effort  there  was  in  helping  to  solve 
the  problem  of  farm-labor  transportation  in  order  to  overcome  the 
farm-labor  shortages  during  that  period. 

In  1944  the  work  of  the  Labor  Division  of  the  Farm  Security  Ad- 
ministration came  near  an  end  and  I  transferred  to  the  Office  of 
Surplus  Projierty,  Consumer  Goods  Division,  which  at  that  time 
was  under  the  Procurement  Division  of  the  Treasury  Department. 
Soon  after  that,  that  Office  of  Surplus  Property,  Consumers  Divi- 
sion, was  transferred  from  the  Procurement  Division  of  the  Treasury 
to  the  Commerce  Division.  There  I  held  the  post  of  chief  economist 
nnd  Director  of  Market  Research  Division. 

Later  on  this  Office  of  Consumer  Goods  was  transferred  to  the  RFC 
and  still  later  to  the  War  Assets  Administration,  where  I  was  em- 
ployed as  Director  of  the  Economic  M-irket  Research  Division  until 
the  time  when  I  resigned  my  position  with  them  in  November,  I  believe 
it  was,  of  1947. 

That,  in  brief,  is  my  employment  record  with  the  Government. 
Mr.  Strii'lixo.  What  have  vou  lieen  doing  since  vou  left  the  Gov- 
ernment  ? 

Mr.  SiLVKKMASTEK.  Siucc  I  left  the  Government,  for  a  while  I  did 
nothing.  Then  I  moved  to  Harvey  Cedars,  N.  J.,  and  have  been 
employed  there,  se]f-em])loyed,  building  houses. 

Mr.  Striplixo.  Mr.  Chairman,  before  proceeding  any  further,  I 
would  like  for  the  witness  to  read  his  statement. 

Mr.  ]\Ii"xi)T.  Very  well.  Mr.  Silvermaster,  you-may  read  your  state- 
ment at  this  point. 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  shall  read  it  in  full. 
Mr.  MuxnT.  You  may  read  it  in  full  without  interruption. 
Mr.  SiEVER^i ASTER.  Tluiuk  you. 

My  name  is  Xathan  Gregory  Sjlvermaster  and  my  present  residence 
is  Harvey  Cedars,  N.  J.  I  was  born  in  Odessa,  Russia,  on  November 
27,  1898,  and  came  to  the  United  States  in  1915.  I  was  naturalized  as 
an  American  citizen  in  1927. 

I  received  the  degrees  of  bachelor  of  arts  from  the  University  of 
Washington  in  1920  and  doctor  of  jihilosophy  (economics)  from  the 
University  of  California  in  1932.  I  was  professor  of  economics  at 
St.  Mary's  (\)llege.  Calif.,  from  1924  to  1930.  In  1931  and  1932  I  was 
a  member  of  the  Governor's  connnission  on  unemployment  and  later 
was  director  of  research  and  surA^eys  of  the  California  State  Relief 
Administration. 

From  193;")  to  November  1940,  I  held  various  responsible  positions 
•  with  the  Federal  Government  in  the  Resettlement  Administration, 
i  Maritime  Labor  Board.  Farm  Security  Administration,  and  Board  of 
Economic  Warfare  and  tlie  War  Assets  Administration. 


590  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

In  these  agencies  I  helped  establish  a  program  of  camps  for  migra- 
tory farm  workers  and  promoted  fair-labor  relations  in  the  construc- 
tion and  maritime  industries.  During  World  War  II,  I  directed 
studies  of  the  enemy's  economic  potential  and  helped  cut  the  flow  of 
strategic  materials  to  Axis  countries. 

I  am  proud  that  in  all  the  positions  which  I  have  held  in  tlie  Federal 
Government  I  have  fought  consistently  for  the  interest  of  the  American 
people  as  a  whole  and  particularly  of  farm  and  industrial  labor.  I 
am  especially  pi'oud  that  during  the  war  I  w^as  able  to  strike  effective 
blows  in  the  Government  service  at  our  Fascist  enemies. 

Because  I  have  never  attempted  to  conceal  my  strong  advocacy  of  the 
rights  of  the  underprivileged  and  of  all  New  Deal  principles,  I  have- 
been  constantly  harassed  by  groundless  accusations  of  disloyalty.  I 
was  under  investigation  during  almost  my  entire  12  years  of  Govern- 
ment service.  I  Avas  cleared  by  various  agencies,  including  the  Chief 
of  the  Secret  Service  and  Secretary  of  War  Patterson,  among  others. 
I  left  Government  service  late  in  1946  because  the  harassment  con- 
tinued. Since  then  I  have  been  investigated  by  the  FBI  and  have 
been  the  subject  of  a  year- long  investigation  by  the  grand  jury  in 
New  York. 

Neither  the  FBI  nor  the  New  York  grand  jury  have  taken  any 
action  against  me,  although  they  heard  the  same  witnesses  as  this 
committee  has  produced  and,  I  am  certain,  thoroughly  investigated 
the  charges  made  against  me  by  Elizabeth  Bentley. 

The  charges  made  by  Miss  I3entley  are  false  and  fantastic.  I  can 
oidy  conclude  that  she  is  a  neurotic  liar.  I  am  and  have  been  a  loyal 
American  citizen  and  was  a  faithful  Government  employee.  I  am  not 
and  never  have  been  a  spy  or  agent  of  any  foreign  government. 

I  consider  the  proceedings  which  have  gone  on  before  this  com- 
mittee as  a  continuation  of  the  harassment  w^iich  has  plagued  me  and 
interfered  with  my  work  and  livelihood  for  years.  I  consider  them 
to  be  motivated  by  political  considerations  on  the  eve  of  a  Presidential 
election  and  the  necessity  to  conceal  from  the  American  people  the 
failure  of  Congress  to  act  upon  such  matters  as  housing  and  inflation. 
If  I  committed  a  cnme,  I  should  be  indicted  and  prosecuted  in  the 
courts.  Without  such  indictment  and  prosecution,  my  reputation 
should  not  be  smeared. 

In  view  of  the  continuance  of  the  investigation  by  the  New  York 
grand  jury  and  the  fact  that  this  committee  has  indicated  that  it 
intends  to  call  for  still  another  investigation  before  a  so-called  blue- 
ribbon  grand  jury  in  the  District  of  Columbia,  I  must  protect  myself 
against  this  diabolical  conspiracy.  Upon  advice  of  my  counsel,  I  shall 
stand  upon  the  constitutional  right  of  every  American  citizen  and  shall 
refuse  to  testify  further  on  matters  relating  to  Miss  Bentley's  charges 
in  the  exercise  of  my  constitutional  privilege  against  self-incrimination 
under  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Silvermaster,  in  listing  your  Government  serv- 
ice, I  didn't  notice  that  you  made  any  reference  to  the  Bretton  Woods 
Conference.  Did  you  attend  the  Bretton  Woods  Conference  in  any 
capacity  ? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  was  the 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  591 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  did  not  include  this  in  my  record  because  I 
was  not  able  to  carry  out  the  task  that  I  was  supposed  to  have  done 
there, 

Mr.  Stru'ling.  What  was  the  task  you  were  supposed  to  have  done  I 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  went  there  upon  the  invitation  of  Mr.  Harry  D. 
iVhite,  who  at  that  time  was  the  Assistant  Secretary  of  the  Treasury, 
to  help  him  to  translate  any  documents  that  he  may  have  had  to  deal 
with  submitted  to  him  by  the  Russians. 

It  so  happened  that  when  I  got  there  I  had  a  very  severe  attack  of 
asthma.  I  stayed  there  for  2  days  and  only  1  day  of  the  Conference 
and  returned  back  to  Washington. 

Mr.  Streplixg.  Mr.  Silvermaster,  are  you  now  or  have  you  ever  been 
a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Silver:\iaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  grounds 
which  I  have  already  stated. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  Which  grounds  are  those? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  On  the  ground  that  any  statement  I  may  make — 
I  refuse  to  answer  the  question  on  the  ground  that  any  answer  I  may 
make  to  this  question  may  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Silvermaster,  do  you  know  Earl  Browder? 

Mr.  Rankin.  Mr.  Chairman^ 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Stripling  asked  a  question. 

Mv.  Rankin.  I  understand,  but  he  refused  to  answer  the  question  of 
whether  or  not  he  is  a  Communist  on  the  ground  that  his  answer 
might  incriminate  him,  which  would  indicate  that  his  answer  would 
be,  if  he  told  the  truth,  that  he  was  a  Communist. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Go  ahead,  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Sir.  Silvermaster,  do  you  know  Earl  Browder? 

]\lr.  Silvermaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  same 
grounds. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Jacob  N.  Golos  ? 

Mr.  jNIundt.  What  do  you  mean  by  "the  same  grounds"?  Kindly 
explain  which  grounds. 

^Ir.  SiLX'ERMASTER.  Oil  the  ground  that  any  answer  I  may  give 
before  this  committee  to  questions  asked  may  be  self -incriminating,  on 
the  ground  that 

Mr.  MuNDT.  That  is  a  constitutional  defense.    Proceed. 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  The  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Mundt.  If  you  are  going  to  use  the  constitutional  defense,  spell 
it  out  and  don't  just  say  "same  grounds." 

]\Ir.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Jacob  Golos? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  same  grounds. 

]\Ir,  IVIuNDT.  I  want  you  to  explain  the  grounds  each  time  you  answer 
the  question. 

Mv.  SiLvERiM ASTER.  Oil  tlic  grouiid  that  the  answer  to  this  question 
may  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Mundt.  That  is  a  satisfactory  answer.    Proceed,  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Silvermaster,  do  you  know  Gerhart  Eisler? 

Mv.  Silvermaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  any  answer  I  may  make  to  this  question  may  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Proceed,  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Silvermaster.  would  you  kindly  turn  around 
and.  Miss  Bentle}^  would  you  please  stand? 

(Miss  Bentley  stands  in  audience.) 


592  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 


mg? 


Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley,  who  is  stand- 


Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question  on  tlie  ground 
that  any  answer  I  may  give  may  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  are  aware,  Mr.  Silvermaster,  that  Miss  Bentley 
lias  made  very  serious  charges  against  you  before  this  committee.  You 
refuse  to  answer  whether  you  even  know  her;  is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  That  is  correct,  sir.  I  refuse  to  answer  this 
question  on  the  grounds  that  any  answer  I  may  give  to  this  question 
may  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do'you  know  Solomon  Adler? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  same 
grounds  that  any  answer  I  may  give  to  this  question  may  be  self- 
incriminating. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  have  a  number  of  questions  here 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Proceed  with  your  questions. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  think  if  the  record  is  made  clear  that  when  he  says 
"same  grounds"'  he  means 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  prefer  to  have  him  answer  the  question  as  the  Chair 
has  indicated. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Very  well. 

Do  you  know  Lauchlin  Currie? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  any  answer  I  may  make  to  this  question  may  tend  to  be  self- 
incriminating. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Norman  Bursler? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  any  answer  I  may  give  to  this  question  may  tend  to  be  self- 
incriminating. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Alger  Hiss  ^ 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  any  answer  I  may  give  to  this  question  may  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know"  Frank  V.  Coe? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  any  answer  I  may  give  to  the  question  may  be  self -incriminating. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Edward  J.  Fitzgerald  ? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  any  answ^er  I  may  give  to  the  question  may  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Harold  Glasser? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  any  answer  I  may  give  to  the  question  may  be  self -incriminating. 

Mr.  Stripling.  SoniaGold? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  any  answer  I  may  give  to  the  question  may  be  self -incriminating. 

Mr.  Stripling.  William  J.  Gold? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  any  answer  I  may  give  may  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Joseph  B.  Gregg — fi-r-e-g-g? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  any  answer  I  may  give  to  the  question  may  tend  to  be  self- 
incriminating. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Victor  Perlo? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  an}'  answer  I  may  give  to  the  question  may  be  self-incriminating. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  593 

Mr.  Snai'i.iXi;.  Charles  Kramer? 

Mv.  SiLVEK:yiASTER.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  oround 
that  any  answer  I  may  irive  to  the  question  may  tend  to  b3  self- 
incriminatniir. 

Mr.  STRirLixG.  Duncan  C.  Lee? 

Ml-.  S]l\kr:mastkr.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  oround 
that  any  answer  I  may  jjive  to  the  question  may  be  self-incriminatinjji;. 

Ml'.  SrinrLixci.  Harry  MagdotJ'? 

]Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  any  answer  I  may  give  to  the  question  may  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  .Stru'lixo.  William  W.  llemington? 

Mr.  SiLVERjiASTER.  I  am  sorry  to  say  I  have  to  refuse  to  answer 
this  question  on  the  ground  that  any  answer  I  may  give  to  the  question 
may  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  ^laurice  Halperin? 

^Iv.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  any  answer  I  may  give  to  this  question  may  be  self-iiicriminating. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Alex  Koral  ? 

^Ir.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  any  answer  I  may  give  to  the  question  may  be  self-incriminating. 

>[r.  Striplixg.  Did  von  ever  furnish  anv  documents  from  Govern- 
ment  files  to  Elizabeth  T.  B?utley  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  any  answer  I  may  give  to  this  question  may  tend  to  be  self-in- 
criminating. 

■Mr.  Ptriplixg.  Did  you  have  photographic  equipment  in  the  base- 
ment of  your  home  in  Washington,  D.  C,  for  the  purpose  of  photo- 
gra'phing  Government  documents? 

^Ir.  SiLVERMAS'n:R.  T  refuse  to  answer  on  the  ground  that  any  answ^er 
1  may  give  may  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  I\Idx'dt.  It  is  very  difficult  to  see  how  the  answer  "no"'  would  be 
self-incriminating  as  to  that  question,  but  we  will  accept  the  consti- 
tutional defense. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Mr.  William  Ullmann  ? 

]Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  kuow  Mr.  Ullmann. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  How  well  do  you  know  Mr  .Ullmann? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Mr.  Ullmannn  has  resided  with  me  since  1937. 

Mr.  S'lRiPLTXG.  Is  Mr.  ITUmann  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

]\Ir.  SiLVTRMAi- Ti  R.  I  ref use  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  any  answer  I  may  give  may  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  JNIr.  Chairman,  it  is  evident  that  the  witness  does 
not  intend  to  answer  any  questions  which  involve  the  evidence  which 
has  been  presented  to  the  committee.  After  the  committee  has  com- 
pleted its  questions  of  the  witness,  I  should  like  for  him  to  step  aside 
and  place  other  witnesses  on  the  stand. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  The  chairman  w'ill  call  on  the  members  of  the  com- 
mittee for  questions.    Mr.  McDowell. 

Mr.  ]\IcDowELL.  I  have  no  questions. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Rankin. 

Mr.  Raxkix\  Ml".  Silvermaster,  you  refuse  to  answer  these  ques- 
tions on  the  ground  that  if  you  did  answer  them,  it  would  incriminate 
you.    That  is  correct;  is  it? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  liave  refused  to  answer  these  questions  on 
tliese  grounds  and  explained  the  reason  for  taking  this  position  in  the 

80408—48 7 


594  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

statement  ■which  I  made  before  this  committee  in  my  prepared  state- 
ment. 

Mr.  E.AXKIN.  If  you  had  committed  no  crime,  your  testimony  would 
not  incriminate  you.  I  have  been  a  prosecuting  attorney  and  I  liave 
never  seen  a  man  refuse  to  answer  questions  on  the  ground  that  they 
would  incriminate  him  except  when  he  had  committed  a  crime  himself. 

Mr.  SiLM^RMASTFj!.  I  do  uot  loiow  the  legality  of  the  situation,  sir, 
l)ut  I  do  know  that  I  have  been  under  investigation  for  some  alleged 
crimes  and  these  investigations  have  been  going  on  for  some  time. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  know  the  Communist  Party  is  dedicated  to  the 
overthrow  of  this  Government;  do  you  not? 

Mv.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  do  uot  kuow  what  the  Communist  Party  is 
dedicated — that  the  Communist  Party  is  dedicated  to  the  overthrow  of 
this  Government. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Weren't  you  a  member  of  it? 

]Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  have  already  stated  I  refuse  to  answer  this 
([uestion,  sir. 

Mr.  Rankin.  If  you  are  not  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party,  then' 
3'our  answer  would  not  incriminate  you.  This  seems  to  be  a  storm 
cellar  that  some  of  j'ou  witnesses  ti'y  to  use  to  keep  from  getting  your- 
selves cliarged  with  perjury.  If  you  were  not  a  member  of  the  Com- 
nuniist  Party,  it  would  certainly  not  incriminate  you  to  say  "No." 

Xow,  why  do  you  refuse  to  answer  that  question  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  liave  already  given  my  reasons  in  the  prepared 
statement. 

Mr.  Rankin.  In  other  words,  you  are  afraid  that  if  you  answer 
"No,"  we  will  prove  you  were  a  member  and  then  you  would  be  subject 
to  indictment  for  perjury.     That  is  my  construction. 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Not  uecessarily ;  no. 

Mr.  Rankin.  That  is  alL 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Nixon,  any  questions? 

JNIr.  Nixon.  Yes,  I  have  a  cpiestion  on  your  statement,  Mr.  Silver- 
juaster.     You  stated  in  the  third  paragraph  from  the  last  as  follows: 

The  charges  made  by  Miss  Bentley  are  false  and  fantastic.  I  can  only  conclude 
that  she  is  a  neurotic  liar. 

Now,  you  have  indicated  in  previous  questions  that  you  would  not 
iinswer  any  question  concerning  whether  you  knew  Miss  Bentley  on 
the  grounds  that  they  might  incriminate  you,  but  in  your  statemen.t 
here  you  have  made  the  charge  that  Miss  Bentley's  charges  are  false 
and  fantastic  and  that  she  is  a  neurotic  liar.  On  what  do  j^ou  base 
this  conclusion  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  base  this  conclusion,  sir,  on  reading  the  testi- 
mony that  was  presented  before  this  committee  by  this  said  person. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Wliat  facts  do  you  have  which  would  contradict  that 
testimony  and  which  would  allow  you  to  make  the  charge  that  she  is  a 
neurotic  liar? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  am  under  no  obligation.  I  am  not  asked  to 
contradict  the  testimony.  There  was  no  testimony  presented;  there 
were  allegations  made. 

Mr.  NixoN.  On  what  facts  do  you  base  your  charge  that  she  is  a 
neurotic  liar  which  would  contradict  those  allegations? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  That  is  the  impression  that  the  statements  made 
concerning  me  made  upon  me. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  595 

]\Ir.  Nixox.  You  have  made  the  coiichision  in  this  j-tatenient  that 
i\Iiss  Beiitley's  charges  are  false  and  fantastic.  Yon  stated  that  out- 
right, not  as  a  supposition,  but  as  a  conclusion,  and  you  stated  that  she 
is  a  liar. 

Now,  I  think  that  under  the  circumstances  you  shoidd  indicate  to 
the  committee  in  \yhat  instances  in  Miss  Bentley's  testimony  you  con- 
sider that  she  has  made  misstatements  of  fact  and  on  what  facts  you 
base  this  statement  that  she  is  a  liar. 

Mr.  SiLVEKMASTEK.  I  luid  the  right  to  make  the  statement  in  the  pre- 
pared statement  that  I  have  made,  and  I  shall  reserve  the  right  to 
make  further  statements  when  any  allegations  she  has  made  against 
me  are  taken  up  in  courts. 

MV.  Nixox.  Mr.  Silvermaster,  Miss  Bentley  before  this  committee 
cited  certain  facts  concerning  activities.  You  have  stated  that  these 
facts  are  false.  You  have  the  same  right  that  she  had  to  cite  the  facts 
upon  which  you  base  the  charge  that  her  statements  of  facts  are  false. 

"Will  you  indicate  to  the  committee  what  facts  in  your  knowledge 
you  have  that  would  contradict  the  facts  she  has  presented  here  in 
her  statement ''. 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  have  stated  my  position  in  my  prepared  state- 
ment. I  refuse  to  answer  questions  pertaining  to  the  charges  made 
against  me. 

JNIr.  Xixc>x\  In  other  woi'ds,  you  have  made  the  statentent  that  jMiss 
Bentley 's  statements  ai'e  false  and  yet  you  refuse  to  give  any  testimony 
to  indicate  why  they  are  false  or  in  what 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  have  stated  the  reasons,  why  I  liave  refused 
to  answer  questions. 

Mr.  Nixox.  Don't  you  fear  that  by  making  the  statement  as  you  have 
in  vour  statement  that  Miss  Bentley's  charges  are  false  that  that  mioht 
mcrnnmate  you  5 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  No. 

Mr.  Nixox.  You  just  a  moment  ago  refused  to  answer  any  questions 
concerning  your  activities  with  Miss  Bentley.  Now.  either  you  knoAv 
Miss  Bentley  or  you  don't;  either  you  know  these  facts  are  true  or 
you  don't. 

You  have  indicated  in  your  statement  these  facts  are  false,  wliir-h 
Avould  indicate  you  have  knowledge  concerning  Miss  Bentley.  Do 
you  want  to  retract  the  statement  that  her  statements  are  false,  or  do 
you  want  to  state  the  facts? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  refuse  to  answer  tlie  question  on  the  ground 
that  any  statement  I  may  make  at  this  time  may  tend  to  be  self- 
incriminating  because  of  the  statement  I  have  given  in  my  prepai'ed 
statement.     This  whole  thing  has  been  under  investigation. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  INIr.  Nixon,  in  connection  with  your  statement,  I 
should  like  to  point  out  that  Mr.  Silvermaster  was  a  Avitness  before 
our  committee  on  May  25,  at  which  time  we  did  not  know  Miss  Bent- 
ley. had  never  heard  of  Miss  Bentley.  and  he  gave  the  same  ansAvers 
on  that  date  to  these  questions  as  to  whether  or  not  he  Avas  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party  and  did  he  know  this  person  and  that  person. 
That  was  before  Miss  Bentley  testified  and  before  we  even  knew 
Miss  Bentley. 

Mr.  Nixox^  Mr.  Chairman,  in  this  connection  I  think  that  the  state- 
ment of  the  witness  to  the  effect  that  Miss  Bentley's  charges  are  false 


596  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

and  fantastic  and  that  she  is  a  liar  should  be  stricken  from  the  record. 
I  am  not  going  to  move  that  they  be  stricken  from  the  record,  for  I 
feel  that  under  the  circumstances  the  record  will  speak  for  itself,  but 
I  think  it  is  perfectly  apparent  that  this  witness  is  making  this 
charge — in  other  words,  is  willing  to  testify  only  on  those  facts  that 
would  serve  his  own  purposes  and  that  his  refusal  to  testify  concern- 
ing Miss  Bent  ley  on  other  facts  is  because  he  realizes  those  would 
incriminate  him  in  fact. 

I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  would  not  agree  to  have  any  of  these  statements 
stricken  from  the  record  because  if  the  Department  of  Justice  does  its 
duty,  it  will  file  a  petition  to  cancel  his  citizenship  and  deport  him 
from  this  country.  A  man  who  comes  here  and  refuses  to  answer 
whether  or  not  he  is  a  Communist  or  whether  or  not  he  knows  these 
Communists  Avho  are  plotting  the  overthrow  of  this  Government  has 
no  right  to  crawl  into  a  storm  cellar  like  that  and  ask  the  protection 
of  the  Government  of  the  United  States. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Peterson,  do  you  have  any  questions? 

Mr.  Peterson.  No  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Hebert,  any  questions? 

Mr.  Hebert.  Yes. 

Mr.  Silvermaster,  what  year  did  you  come  to  this  country  ? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  1915. 

Mr.  Hebert.  How  old  were  you  at  that  time  ? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  Sixteen. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Why  did  you  come  to  this  country  ?  What  prompted 
you  to  come  to  this  country  ? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  came  to  this  country  in  order  to  get  an  educa- 
tion and  because  I  wanted  to  become  an  American  citizen. 

Mr.  Hebert.  There  were  no  educational  facilities  available  in 
liussia  ? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  There  were. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Why  couldn't  you  get  your  education  in  Russia? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  Because  my  secondary  education  I  received  in 
an  English  school  and  because  I  did  not  want  to  live  in  Russia.  I 
wanted  to  come  to  the  United  States. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Why  didn't  you  want  to  live  in  Russia  ? 

Mr.  Sil\termaster.  Because  I  disliked  the  form  of  government 
they  had  there. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  form  of  government  did  they  have  at  that  time? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  They  had  an  absolutist  czarist  government. 

Mr.  Hebert.  In  1915? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  1915. 

Mr.  Hebert.  They  had  a  czaristic  government  at  that  time,  you 


c 


% 


Mr.  kSiLVERMASTER.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Would  you  have  remained  there  if  Lenin  had  been  in 
power  and  the  Communists  had  taken  over? 

Mr.  Silveriniaster.  That  is  a  question  that  I  cannot  answer.  I  had 
no  idea  at  the  time  wdiat  government  they  would  have  in  the  future 
•ind  whether  or  not  I  would  like  or  would  not  like  that  kind  of  govern- 
ment.    I  had  no  basis. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Do  you  like  that  form  of  government?  Will  that 
incriminate  you  to  tell  me  that? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  597 

Mr.  SiLVEHMASTEH.  It  wouldirt  incriminate  nie. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Would  you  tell  us  whether  you  like  the  communistic 
form  of  government? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  It  is  the  kind  of  government  they  want  to  have. 

]\Ir.  Hebert.  I  asked  you  if  you  like  the  communistic  form  of 
government. 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  would  like  the  kind  of  government  we  have 
here. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  didn't  ask  you  that.  Will  it  incriminate  you  to  tell 
me  and  tell  this  committee? 

Ml".   SiLVERMASTER.    No. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Yes  or  no — do  you  like  the  communistic  form  of  gov- 
ernment or  don't  you  I 

Mr.    SiLVERMASTER.    I    (lou't. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  don't. 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  That  is  riglit. 

jMr.  Hebert.  Why  don't  you  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  It  is  a  pretty  long  story,  I  suppose. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Let's  hear  it. 

Mr.  SiLVER:srASTER.  I  haven't  had  an  opportunity  to  live  under  a 
communistic  form  of  government,  and  it  is  very  difficult  for  any  indi- 
vidual to  say  whether  or  not  he  would  like  a  particular  government 
if  he  liasn't  had  any  experience  with  it. 

]Mr.  Hebert.  Do  you  like  what  it  stands  for?  You  know  what  it 
stands  for.     You  are  an  educated  man. 

Mr.  Sil^t:rmaster.  It  all  depends  on  what  you  mean  by  "what  it 
stands  for."     Every  government  stands  for  many  things. 

Mr.  HiiBERT.  I  will  tell  you  my  appreciation  of  them  and  see  if  you 
agree. 

My  appreciation  of  what  the  Communists  stand  for  is  the  destruc- 
tion of  the  free  enterprise  system  of  government,  the  destruction  of 
caj)italism,  the  capitalistic  system,  and  the  destruction  of  all  religion 
and  churches,  and  the  establishment  of  a  complete  totalitarian  form 
of  government  in  Avhich  the  dignity  of  the  individual  is  violated  and 
under  which  no  man  has  an  opportunity  to  advance  himself  on  his  own 
and  in  which  everything  that  is  repulsive  and  indignant  to  what  we 
in  America  believe. 

That  is  my  conception  and  appreciation  of  communism,  and  I  think 
it  is  the  general  conception  of  the  Communist  form  of  government. 
Do  you  believe  in  it? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  No,  I  dou't.  My  whole  attitude  to  this  question 
would  be  somewhat  different  from  yours  for  the  simple  reason 

i\Ir.  Hebert.  I  want  to  know  what  you  think  about  it. 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  ouly  liavc  in  mind  one  kind  of  government,  and 
that  is  the  kind  of  government  they  have  in  Russia  today.  That  kind 
of  g  vernnent  you  h:ive  in  Russia  was  born  as  the  result  of  certain 
events.  That  kind  of  government  in  Russia  today  was  born  as  the 
result  of  certain  events.  These  events  pertain  only  to  that  particu- 
lar country  and  that  kind  of  government  came  into  being  in  response 
to  the  conditions  there  and  developments  there. 

Now,  whether  the  answer  that  the  present  Government  gave  to  the 
problem  of  the  Russian  peo])le  is  good  or  bad  is  something  I  am  not 
in  a  position  to  evaluate.     I  am  not  living  there,  but  I  want  to  point 


598  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

out,  the  point  I  want  to  make  is  that  the  Government  they  have  there 
was  a  result  of  certain  historic  conditions,  which  historic  conditions 
did  not  obtain  in  this  country. 

I  know,  for  example,  that  there  has  been  terrific  dissatisfaction 
among  the  common  people  of  Russia  with  the  czarist  regime.  There 
has  been  starvation,  there  has  been  oppression,  and  as  a  result  of  these 
conditions  certain  things  happened  which  produced  the  revolution 
which  led  to  the  establishment  of  a  certain  type  of  govermnent,  which 
may  or  may  not  have  solved  the  problems. 

Mr,  Hebert.  You  say  you  left  Russia  in  1915.  Russia  was  at  war. 
Why  weren't  }■  ou  in  the  army  ? 

Mr.  SiLVER3iASTEK.  I  was  too  youug  to  be  in  the  army  at  the  time. 
As  a  matter  of  fact,  I  was  in  China  at  the  time,  in  Shanghai. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  weren't  in  Russia? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.    In  1915. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  say  when  you  left  in  1915  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  No ;  1  wasu't  in  Russia  proper,  no.  I  was  at- 
tending school.     My  parents  were  living  at  the  time  in  the  Far  East. 

]\Ir.  Hebert.  How  long  had  you  been  in  China  at  that  time? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  My  folks  from  the  year  190G  to  the  time  I  left 
lived  in  the  Far  East — in  the  Russian  part  of  the  Far  East,  Man- 
churia, and  in  1912  I  was  sent  to  school  in  Shanghai,  to  an  English 
school. 

Mr.  Hebert.  When? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  1912.  Froui  1912  to  1915,  but  every  summer  1 
would  go  back  home  for  vacation,  so  that  my  legal  residence  was 
Harbin,  which  at  that  time  was  under  Russian  domination;  so  I  re- 
ferred to  it  as  part  of  Russia.  Actually  I  sailed  from  Shanghai  and 
not  Harbin  because  Harbin  is  not  a  port. 

Mr.  Hebert.  During  this  time  did  you  participate  in  any  revolu- 
tionary movements  in  Russia? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  was  toD  youug  to  participate  in  any  movement. 

Mr.  Hebert.  In  Russia — when  did  you  become  an  American  citizen  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.    Ill  1927. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Where? 

Mr.  Silverjiaster.  San  Francisco. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  had  been  here  12  years  at  that  time  ? 

Mr.  Silvj:rim aster.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  you  say  that  you  did  not  participate  in  any 
movement  heie  in  this  country  of  communistic  leaning? 

Mr.  Silver:master.  I  didn't  say  that. 

Mr.  Hei'.ert.  What  did  you  say? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  You  asked  me  wuth  reference  to  the  things  that 
I  had  done  in  Russia. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  am  asking  you  about  America. 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  If  I  participated — I  have  already  given  you 
the  answer.  I  will  refuse  to  answer  any  question  of  this  or  similar 
character. 

Mr.  Hebert.  In  other  words,  you  are  perfectly  willing  to  discuss 
before  this  committee  any  subject  matter  that  might  not  incriminate 
you.  but  you  refuse  to  discuss  anything  which  will  tend  to  incriminate 
you? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  599 

Mr.  SiLVERMAs'iER.  I  wiU  refui^e  to  discuss  anytliinjj;-  which  iiiay  have 
a  bearinoon  the  things  that  have  been  under  investigation  by  the  grand 
jury  and  the  FBI  concerning  myself. 

^fr.  Herert.  ^Vhv  did  vou  refuse  to  testify  before  the  committee 
Avhen  you  first  appeared  as  directed  by  Mr.  Stripling?  You  were  not 
before  the  grand  jury  at  that  time,  were  you  ? 

^Ir.  SiLVERMASTER.  For  the  same  reasons. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  were  not  before  the  grand  jury  at  that  time? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  ]My  case  was  before  the  grand  jury. 

Mr.  Hebert.  It  was  before  the  grand  jury? 

]Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Certainly. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  the  grand  jury  is  still  meeting  on  your  case, 
isn't  it? 

IVIr.  SiLVERMASTER.  As  far  as  I  know. 

jNIr.  Hebert.  As  far  as  you  know,  then,  it  is  not  a  closed  case? 

iVIr.  SiLVERMASTER.  That  is  right,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  the  mere  fact  tliat  you  have  not  been  indicted 
as  of  this  time  does  not  indicate  you  are  innocent  of  the  charges  made 
by  Miss  Bentley ;  is  that  correct  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  is  all. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  ]\Ir.  Silvermaster,  I  have  just  a  question  or  two. 

Are  you  a  lawyer  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  are  not  an  attorney? 

Mv.  SiLVERMASTER.    No,  Sir. 

Mr.  INIuNDT.  I  am  not  a  lawyer  either,  so  I  w^onder  if  as  one  layman 
to  another  you  could  explain  to  me  how  it  would  be  self -incriminat- 
ing for  you  to  tell  this  committee  that  you  did  not  have  photographic 
apparatus  in  your  basement  in  which  Government  documents  were 
photogra])hed  for  delivery  to  a  Russian  spy  ring.  If  the  answer  were 
no  to  that  question,  how  would  it  incriminate  you? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  dou't  kuow  law. 

]Mr.  jMuxdt.  I  don't  know  law  either. 

Mv.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  liave  vei'y  little  understanding  about  it,  but 
I  understand  the  chai'ges,  allegations,  or  charges,  under  which  the 
grand  jury  was  deliberating  involve  conspiracy  matters  and  that  con- 
spiracy matters  are  so  broad  that  anything  may  be  included  in  it, 
any  fact  that  you  may  know  or  not  know  about  may  somehow^ 

Mr.  MuxDT.  Just  between  a  couple  of  fellows  wdio  are  not  law- 
yers, how  would  it  be  incriminating  to  a  man  who  had  been  charged 
with  having  photographic  apparatus  in  his  basement  and  working 
through  the  night  taking  pictures  of  Government  documents  to  trans- 
mit to  New  York?  It  is  asked  whether  you  have  that  photographic 
apparatus  in  your  basement  and  you  say,  "I  don't  dare  tell  you  because 
it  might  incriminate  me."  How  would  it  incriminate  you  if  you  said, 
'T  don't  have  anvthing  like  that,  of  course  not"?  How  would  that 
incriminate  you  ? 

Mr.  SiL^T2RMASTER.  Sir,  the  FBI  have  investigated  me.  They  have 
come  to  my  house  and  they  have  ask.ed  me  a  lot  of  questions  and  I 
hav^^  answered  their  questions  in  full.  lender  normal  circumstances 
that  was  the  proper  thing  to  do.    I  haven't  hesitated  for  a  moment  to 


600  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

answer  them,  all  the  questions  that  were  asked  me.  But  soon  after 
that  somethin^i  else  hapj^ened. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  What  happened  then  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  mean 

Mr.  MuNDT.  The  grand  jury? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  The  whole  thin<r  began  to  assume  the  character 
of  a  conspiracy  against  me  almost  to  the  point  of  looking  like  a  pos- 
sible frame-up,  for  all  I  knew. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  A  conspiracy  by  the  FBI? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  dou't  kuoAV  by  whom.    I  don't  say  that. 

Mr.  Mltndt.  Not  by  us;  not  a  conspiracy  by  this  committee? 

Mr.  SiLVER^kiASTER.  Of  coiu'se  not. 

Mr.  Mundt.  When  you  appeared  before  the  grand  jury  up  in  New 
York.  I  presume  they  asked  you  questions,  and  T  wondered  if  you 
used  your  constitutional  defense  there  to  say,  'T  won't  give  you  any 
information  because  it  might  incriminate  me." 

]Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  rcfuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground 
that  anything  I  may  sav  may  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Mundt.  It  wouldn't  be  very  informative  to  the  grand  jury  if 
that  is  all  you  told  them, 

Mr.  McDowell.  IVIr.  Chairman. 

Mv.  ;Mundt.  Mr.  McDowell. 

Mr.  McDow'ELL.  Mr.  Silvermaster,  you  w^ent  to  Bretton  Woods  to 
act  as  an  interpreter  and  you  were  overcome  with  asthma  and  didn't 
act  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Were  there  no  official  interpreters  there  at  Bretton 
Woods? 

Mr.  SiLATRMASTER.  There  probably  were. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Were  you  an  official  interpreter? 

Mr.  Sil\t!:rmaster.  No  ;  I  was  not  an  official  interpreter. 

jNIr.  McDowtsll.  Why  would  Mr.  White  decide  to  have  some  person 
in  excess  of  the  ordinary  number  of  interpreters? 

Mr.  Siiat'^rmaster.  As  I  understood  it  at  the  time,  the  Treasury  did 
n.ot  have  an  interpreter. 

Mr.  McDowell.  The  Treasury? 

Mr.  Sil\t.rmaster.  The  Treasury  Department.  The  interpreter  was 
provided  by  the  State  Department. 

Mr.  McDow^ELL.  And  they  decided  to  take  you  ? 

Ml'.  SiLVERMASTER.  They  decided  to  take  me  and  not  only  because  of 
my  knowledge  of  Russian,  but  also  because  of  my  knowdedge  of  eco- 
nomic matters.    I  am  an  economist. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Mr.  Silvermaster,  would  it  offend  your  constitu- 
tional sensibilities  if  I  inquired  if  you  had  any  knowledge  of  photo- 
gra])hic  equipment  ?  Do  you  know  how  to  operate  it  ?  Do  you  have 
any  skill  in  it? 

iVIr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question. 

Ml.  McDowell.  That  is  all. 

Mr.  Mundt.  IVIr.  Silvermaster,  I  have  one  more  question  which  I 
don't  think  you  will  find  embarrassing.  It  is  a  matter  of  straightening 
out  the  record. 

When  you  talked  to  the  FBI  and  the  FBI  talked  with  you,  you  were 
not  then  testifvinc;  under  oath.    Is  that  correct? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  601 

Mr.  SiLVKH.AiAsTKK.  I  beg  your  pardon? 

Mr.  MuNDT.  When  yon  testified  to  the  FBI  and  talked  to  the  FBI, 
jon  were  not  testifying  nnder  oath? 

INfr.  SiiA'KioiAsTEK.  That  is  riglit. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  were  not  then  testifying  under  oatli  before  the 
FBI  ? 

Ml'.  Sii.vnuMAs'i'KK.  Xo,  sir. 

]\Ir.  8tkiplix(j.  I  have  one  more  question. 

In  your  statement.  ]Mr.  Silvermaster,  you  say: 

I  was  cleared  b.v  various  agencies,  iuclnding  the  Chief  of  the  Secret  Service 
and  Secretary  of  War  I'atterson,  among  otliers. 

Why  was  Secretary  Patterson  called  upon  to  clear  yon.  Were  you 
ever  assigned  to  the  War  Department? 

Mr.  Silvp:rmastkk.  I  would  be  very  glad  to  submit  to  this  commit- 
tee this  particular  case  and  the  letter  from  Secretary  Patterson  con- 
cerning the  case. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Do  you  have  that  letter  with  you? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  have  that  letter. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  won't  tend  to  self-incriniinate  you,  will  it — the 
submission  of  Mr.  Patterson's  letter  ? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  am  submitting  the  letter,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  won't  tend  to  self-incriminate  you,  will  it? 

Mr.  Silver^iaster.  This  question  is  a  matter  of  job  record. 

^Ir.  Hebert.  Tliat  letter  clears  you  and  won't  tend  to  incriminate 
you,  will  it? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  That  is  a  job  record,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  will  clear  you  and  won't  incriminate  you.  Is  that 
why  you  answer  it  ? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  have  not  refused  to  answer  anything  on  the 
job  record. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  we  have  been  endeavoring  to  get  this 
letter  for  a  long  time. 

Mr.  Silvermaster,  will  you  tell  me  whether  Mr.  Lauchlin  Currie 
went  to  see  Mr.  Patterson  in  your  behalf  ? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  Yes.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  the  case  called  for 
action  on  my  i)art  to  get  justice,  and  I  have  asked  people  to  request 
that  Secretary  Patterson  look  into  accusations  made  against  me  per- 
sonally because  those  accusations  were  false,  untruthful,  and  I  didn't 
want  my  name  to  be  besmirched.  I  have  every  right  to  ask  whoever 
I  could  for  this  assistance.  I  didn't  ask  to  be  cleared.  I  only  asked 
that  someone  with  an  unbiased  mind  look  into  my  record  and  develop 
whether  or  not  the  accusations  made  against  me  at  that  time  were  or 
were  not  true. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  w^ere  assigned  to  the  Board  of  Economic  War- 
fare? 

Mr.  Sila'ermaster.  Yes,  sir. 

]\Ir.  Stripling.  And  on  the  pay  roll  of  the  Farm  Security  Admin- 
istration ? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  Yes.  sir. 

jSIr.  Stripling.  Did  Military  Intelligence  make  an  objection  to  your 
employment  with  the  Board  of  Economic  AVarfare? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  think  it  was  Xaval  Intelligence. 

]\Ir., Stripling.  They  asked  your  removal? 


602  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  They  asked  for  my  removal. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  tlien  went  to  Laiichlin  Ciirrie? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  They  wrote  a  letter — and  I  have  the  correspond- 
ence of  this  letter.  They  wrote  a  letter  concernino-  me  which  indicates 
that  I  should  not  be — that  I  am  a  Connnunist — that  I  am  this  or  that — 
and  that,  therefore,  I  should  not  be  entrusted  with  work  with  the 
Board  of  Economic  Warfare. 

Obviously,  a'letter  of  this  sort  was  an  insultin<T  letter  to  me.  It  was 
a  smear  letter,  it  was  not  justified,  and  I  asked  for  an  investigation. 
I  asked  the  Board  of  Economic  Warfare  to  take  this  matter  up  with 
the  AVar  Department.  The  intelligence  communication  was  trans- 
ferred to  the  Board  of  Economic  Warfare  by  the  War  Department, 
by  Xaval  Intelligence. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Stone,  of  the  Board  of  Economic  Warfare,  gave 
3'()u  a  copy  of  the  Xaval  Intelligence  protest  against  y<ni '. 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  He  gave  it  to  you  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  answered  that  report  yourself? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  auswcrcd  the  report. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  yourself  answered  it? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  was  your  report  submitted? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Submitted  to  Mr.  Stone. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  did  ]Mr.  Stone  do  with  it  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  dou't  kuow.      I  dou't  really  recall  now. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  is  Mr.  Stone's  first  name  ? ' 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  dou't  recall  now.     I  believe  William. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  was  his  position? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  He  was  Assistant  Administrator  of  the  Board 
of  Economic  Warfare,  who  had  jurisdiction  over  the  Division  I  was 
connected  Avith. 

Mr.  Stripling.  William  T.  Stone? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  aiii  not  sure ;  I  believe  so. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  Secretary  Patterson  ever  ask  you  whether  oi- 
not  you  were  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  No ;  he  did  not. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  Lauchlin  Currie  ask  j'ou  whether  you  were  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  No ;  he  did  not. 

Mr.  McDowell.  You  went  to  Mr.  Currie  to  get  him  to  write  a  letter 
to  Secretary  Patterson? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  I  beg  your  pardon? 

Mr.  McDowell.  You  went  to  Mr.  Currie  to  get  him  to  write  a  letter 
to  Secretary  Patterson? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  No.  All  I  did  was  to  ask  Mr.  Currie  if  he  could 
get  somebody  in  the  War  Department  to  make  an  unbiased  investiga- 
tion of  the  accusations  made  against  me. 

Mr,  McDowell.  Did  you  ao  to  anybodv  else  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Ycs ;  I  have  asked  Mr.  Baldwin. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Who? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Mr.  Baldwin,  of  the  Farm  Security  Adminis- 
tiation. 


COMMUNIST   i:SPIONAGE  603 

Uv.  McDowell.  Would  that  be  C.  B.  Baldwin? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  C.  B.  Baldwiii.  He  was  my  boss  in  the  Farm 
Security  Administration. 

Mr.  Stripling.  These  gentlemen,  I  presume,  were  both  your  friends? 

jVIr.  SiLyERMASTER.  I  had  known  them  both. 

Mr.  ]\IcDowELL.  How  long? 

Mr.  SiLyERMASTER.  For  quite  a  long  while. 

INIr.  McDowell.  How  long  haye  you  known  Mr.  Currie  ? 

Mr.  SiLyERMASTER.  I  liaye  known  Mr.  Currie  since,  I  belieye,  1938 
or  1939. 

Mr.  jSIcDowell.  I  haye  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Striplixo.  Mr.  JNIcDowell,  the  witness  preyiously  refused  to 
answer  that  he  knew  Mr.  Currie,  on  the  ground  that  it  might  in- 
criminate him. 

Mr,  SiLyERMASTER.  I  haye  answered  this  because  it  had  a  direct 
relationship  to  my  job  record. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  haye  a  question  or  two.  Who  did  you  say  issued 
that  recommendation  that  3'ou  be  remoyed? 

Mr.  SiLyERMASTER.  I  bcg  your  pardon? 

Mr.  Rankin.  Who  did  you  say  issued  that  recommendation  that 
you  be  remoyed  ? 

INIr.  SiLyERMASTER.  The  recommendation,  as  I  recall  it.  for  remoyal 
came  from  Nayal  Intelligence. 

Mr.  Rankin.  And  gaye  as  its  reasons  that  you  were  a  Communist? 

Mr.  SiLyERMASTER.  It  didn't  giye  reasons.  It  merely  gaye  alle- 
gations. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Allegations  that  you  were  a  Communi.st  ? 

(Mr.  Silyermaster  nods  head  affirmatiyely.) 

Mr.  Rankin.  And  that  yo>i  were  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party — did  it  make  that  allegation? 

Mr.  SiLyERMASTER.  I  dou't  haye  the  letter  before  me. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  said  in  response  to  Mr.  Stripling's  question  that 
(he  statements  made  in  that  recommendation  were  false,  didn't  you? 

Mr,  SiLyERMASTER.  In  that  letter ;  yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  In  other  words,  when  that  letter  accused  you  of  being 
a  Communist — is  that  what  you  haye  reference  to  ? 

Mr.  SiLyERMASTER.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Why  should  you  refuse  to  answer  the  question  now 
whether  or  not  you  are  a  member  of  the  Communist  Part}"? 

Mr.  SiLyERMASTER.  Because  I  refuse.  There  are  different  circum- 
stances. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  don't  think  it  is  a  different  subject.  I  think  it  is 
a  different  storm  cellar. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Any  other  questions? 

Mr.  Peterson.  You  stated  that  they  furnished  you  a  copy  of  the 
lettP''  that  Xayal  Intelligence  had  written  to  them. 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  That  is  right,  sir. 

Mr.  Peterson.  Who  furnished  you  a  coj^y  of  that  letter? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Mv.  Stoue. 

Mr.  Peterson.  Mr.  Stone  gaye  you  a  co|)y  of  the  letter  ? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  Of  the  charges  against  me;  yes. 

j\Ir.  MuNDT.  Haye  we  any  further  identification  of  ]Mr.  Stone? 


604  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  STKirLixG,  William  T.  Stone,  Assistant  Administrator  of  the 
Board  of  Economic  Warfare.  Do  yon  know  if  he  is  in  the  State  De- 
partment now? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTEK.  I  don't  know. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  Is  he  in  the  Government  now  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  think  he  is  with  the  Voice  of  America. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Will  3'on  listen  to  this  qnestion  carefully,  because  it 
bears  upon  the  accnracy  of  yonr  statements?  Yon  said  the  charges 
made  by  Miss  Bentley  are  false.  One  of  the  charges  made  by  Miss 
Bentley  was  that  yon  maintained  a  photograj^hic  laboratory  in  your 
home.     Do  you  mean  by  yonr  statement  that  that  charge  is  false? 

Mr.  SiLVERMASTER.  1  rcfuse  to  answer,  sir,  this  question,  on  the 
ground  that  I  have  stated  in  m}'  prepared  statement  and  for  the  reasons 
I  have  given  in  my  prepared  statement. 

Mr.  Nixon.  I  think  the  record  on  tliat  point  speaks  for  itself. 

Mr.  Stripling.  jNIay  I  ask  the  witness  to  step  aside? 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Before  the  witness  steps  aside,  the  chairman  wants  to 
make  a  short  statement  to  the  witness. 

You  are  a  man  of  considerable  intelligence  and  a  long  educational 
background.  I  think  you  must  realize  that  coming  before  this  com- 
mittee, refusing  to  answer  specific  questions  such  as  this  one  about  the 
photographic  apparatus  in  your  basement,  which  can  either  be  or  not 
be  substantiated  by  the  testimony  of  witnesses — refusing  to  answer 
that,  which  plays  a  key  part  in  this  whole  hearing,  on  the  ground  that 
il  is  self-incriminating,  and  refusing  to  do  so  because  you  are  testify- 
ing before  us  under  oath,  where  all  the  laws  of  perjury  apply,  and 
saying  you  have  talked  freely  with  the  FBI,  where  there  is  no  law  of 
})erjury  applying — that  puts  you  in  a  very  bad  light ;  and  I  wonder 
if,  in  consideration  of  those  facts,  you  would  not  like  to  tell  us  the 
answer  to  these  direct  questions — not  whether  or  not  you  are  a  Com- 
munist but  wdiether  or  not  you  did  maintain  in  your  basement  photo- 
graphic apparatus  for  the  purpose  of  photographing  Government 
documents. 

Would  you  like  to  reconsider  your  answer,  Mr.  Silvermaster  ? 

Mr.  Silvermaster.  My  answer  will  be  the  same  as  I  have  given  in 
my  prepared  statement. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Very  well ;  you  may  step  aside. 

Call  the  next  witness. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  will  call  Miss  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Miss  Bentley,  will  you  stand  and  be  sworn?  Raise 
your  right  hand. 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  the  testimony  you  are  about  to  give  will  be 
tlie  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  do. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  may  be  seated. 

TESTIMONY  OF  MISS  ELIZABETH  T.  BENTLEY 

Mr.  Stripling.  Miss  Bentley,  you  have  previously  been  identified 
before  this  committee. 

In  the  testimony  w^hich  you  gave  last  Saturday,  you  stated  that  an 
individual  by  the  name  of  N.  Gregory  Silvermaster  was  the  head 
of  a  group  within  the  Government  that  was  collecting  information 


[ 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  605 

Avhich  tliey  turned  over  to  you,  and  you  in  turn  turned  over  to  Mr. 
Jacob  N.  Golos,  and  which  information  eventually  was  turned  over 
to  an  agent  of  the  Soviet  (Tovernnient. 

Is  the  person  who  just  left  the  witness  stand  the  N.  Gregory  Silver- 
master  that  you  knew? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  that  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripltxo.  At  the  hearing  the  other  day  the  committee  did  not 
have  sufficient  time  to  go  into  detailed  associations  in  connection  with 
yourself  and  Mr.  Silvermaster.  Would  you  tell  the  committee  now 
how  well  you  knew  Mr.  Silvermaster,  how  many  times  you  saw  him, 
whether  or  not  you  ever  were  a  guest  in  his  home  ? 

Miss  Benti.ey.  1  originally  met  Mr.  Silvermaster  and  Mrs.  Silver- 
master  in  July  of  1941,  and  I  came  to  Washington  approximately 
every  2  weeks  from  that  date  on  until  the  end  of  September  1944; 
so  that  I  don't  know  exactly  how  many  times  that  makes. 

Added  to  which,  whenever  Mr.  Silvermaster  or  Mrs,  Silvermaster 
came  to  New  York,  which  may  have  been  three  or  four  times  a  year, 
I  also  saw  theui  in  New  York. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  You  came  to  Mr.  Silvermaster's  home  for  the  pur- 
pose of  collecting  information? 

Miss  Bextley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stkii'lix(}.  Which  he  had  obtained  from  these  people  in  the 
Government  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  That  is  correct,  sir. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  You  also  obtained  from  him  certain  Communist 
Party  dues? 

Miss  Bextley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  That  you  transmitted  to  New  York? 

Miss  Bex^tley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Did  you  ever  spend  the  night  in  INIr.  Silvermaster's 
home  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  Yes;  I  think  three  or  four  or  five  times,  when  it  was 
quite  late,  when  I  finished  talking  to  them,  and  it  was  impossible  to 
get  a  taxicab  or  bus  back  to  town,  I  stayed  overnight  in  their  house; 
yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Mrs.  Silvermaster  well  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  Very  well. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Is  Mrs.  Silvermaster  a  Communist  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Do  you  know  Mr.  Ullmann? 

Miss  Bextley.  Yes;  I  do.  He  was  residing  with  the  Silvermas- 
ters  at  the  time  I  met  him. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  That  was  William  L.  Ullmann? 

Miss  Bextley.  That  is  William  Ludwig  Ullman. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Was  his  nickname  "Lud"? 

Miss  Bextley.  Yes.  I  always  called  him  "Lud'";  and  I  called  Mr. 
Silvermaster, '  Greg"';  and  Mrs.  Silvermaster,  Helen. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Could  you  give  the  committee  some  details  regarding 
the  photographic  equipment  maintained  in  Mr.  Silvermasters  base'^ 
ment  and  whether  or  not  ^Ir.  Ullmann  had  anything  to  do  with  it? 

Miss  I^extley.  Yes.  They  had  set  up  in  the  basement  a  home-made 
apparatus  for  photographing  documents,  for  microfilming  documents, 
in  their  cellar,  which  had  ])een.  I  understand,  put  together  by  Mr. 


606  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Ullmaiiii,  who  is  quite  clever  as  a  mechanic,  and  had  a  rack  on  the  top 
which  the  camera  was  stuck  into  and  pointed  down,  and  they  had 
a  rack  in  tlie  bottom  where  the  papers  were  put  in. 

Mr,  MuNDT.  You  actually  saw"  them  using  this  apparatus  on  Gov- 
ernment documents,  did  you  ? 

Miss  Bentlet.  Yes ;  I  did. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  And  Mr.  Ullmann  has  seen  it,  has  he? 

Miss  Bentley.  Mr.  Ullmann  was  the  principal  photographer.  It 
was  he  who  learned  photography  when  it  became  necessary  to  photo- 
graph documents,  and  it  was  he  who  operated  it,  except  for  those 
times  when  he  Avas  either  away  or  when  there  was  too  much  to  be  clone 
by  one  person  alone. 

At  that  time  ]Mrs.  Silvermaster  also  learned  photography  and  helped 
him  with  it. 

ISlv.  MuxDT.  Ydu  have  seen  Mr.  Silvermaster  in  the  basement  of 
his  home  watching  this  apparatus  photographing  Government  docu- 
ments ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Not  Mr.  Silvermaster.  I  was  in  the  basement  with 
Mr.  Ullmann  and  Mrs.  Silvermaster  while  Mr.  Silvermaster  was  up- 
stairs. It  was  not  thought  wise  for  everyone  to  be  in  the  basement 
sinniltaneously. 

Mr.  STKirLiNG.  When  Mr.  Ullmann's  name  was  mentioned  Saturday, 
we  did  not  have  his  employment  record.  I  would  like  to  put  it  in 
the  record. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  maj^  read  it. 

Mr.  Stkiplixg.  William  L.  Ullmann,  Government  Form  57,  executed 
by  the  above  individual  on  April  4,  1946,  reflects  that  he  was  born 
in  Springfield,  Mo.,  on  August  14,  1908,  that  the  form  was  executed 
by  William  Ullmann  upon  his  return  from  the  United  States  Army 
reauesting  employment  in  the  United  States  Treasury  Department. 

He  resigned  from  his  position  in  the  Division  of  Monetary  Research 
as  of']\Iarch  21.  1947,  to  enter  private  industry.  The  records  indicate 
his  address  as  5515  Thirtieth  Street  NW.,  telephone  Emerson  6720. 

This,  Mr.  Chairman,  is  the  same  address  as  Nathan  Gregory  Silver- 
master. 

He  listed  his  immediate  supervisor  as  Frank  V.  Coe,  Director  of 
Monetary  Research.  His  references  on  the  aforementioned  form  were 
Mr.  Harry  W.  Blair,  lawyer.  Tower  Building,  Washington,  D.  C. ; 
Lauchlin  Currie,  International  Development  Co.,  19  Rector  Street^ 
New  York;  Henrietta  Klotz,  285  Madison  Avenue,  New  York  City, 
assistant  to  the  ex-Secretary  of  the  Treasury,  Mr.  Morgenthau.  Mrs. 
Klotz  was  Mr.  Morgenthau's  personal  secretai-y. 

His  employment  record  is  as  follows :  July  1932,  to  August  1934, 
Ullmann  Bros.,  real  estate  business,  Springfield,  Mo.;  September 
1934  until  January  1935,  salesman  for  ]\Iacy  Bros.,  New  York  City, 
receiving  $15  a  week;  Januar}^  1935  to  March  1935,  Central  Tennis 
Supplies,  New  York  City,  owner  of  business;  April  1935  to  June 
1935,  NRA  Consumers  Advisory  Board,  Washington,  D.  C,  receiving 
$2,000  per  year,  inunediate  supervisor,  Mrs.  Emily  Newell  Blair; 
July  1935  to  February  1939,  Farm  Security  Administration,  starting 
salary  $2,000  per  annum,  ending  salary  $3,800  per  year;  February 
1939  to  October  1942,  Treasury  Department,  Division  of  Monetary 
Research,  Washington,  D.  C,  immediate  supervisor,  Harry  D.  White; 


COMMUNIST   ESPIOiSrAGE  607 

October  194:2  to  October  1945,  United  States  Army,  dischtir<;cd  us  !i 
major,  serial  number  0-r>79514. 

Education:  Harvard  University,  Cambi'idge,  Mass.,  Octol)er  \^-2() 
(o  June  1927:  Diiiry  Colleoe.  Springfield,  Mo.,  October  1927  to  Jur.e 
1980;  Harvard  School  of  Business  Administration,  ()ctcb3r  1980  to 
June  1932. 

Mr.  MuNDi\  Mr.  Stripling,  do  you  have  any  papers  there  show- 
ing the  references  that  Mr.  Silvermaster  had  when  he  secured  employ- 
ment with  the  Government  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mv.  Chairman,  we  have  endeavored  to  secure  his 
file  from  the  Archives  but  it  is  not  there.    We  are  trying  to  locate  it. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  You  mean  the  file  has  disappeared  ? 

Mr.  STiurLiNG.  I  beg  your  pardon? 
*   ]\Ir.  MuNDT.  You  say  the  file  has  disappeared  ? 

]Mr.  Stripling.  That  is  true ;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Disapi^eared  from  where? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Archives. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Whose  archives? 

Mr.  Stripling.  National  Archives. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Where  it  should  properly  be  kept  ? 

]VIr.  JNIcDowELL.  Oh ! 

Mr.  MuNDT.  What  defense  does  the  Archivist  give  his  loss  of  the 
files  of  Mr.  Silvermaster? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Well,  they  advised  Mr,  Wheeler,  the  investigator 
who  went  to  the  Archives,  that  they  were  the  custodians  of  all  the 
files  of  the  Board  of  Economic  Warfare  and  FEA,  but  that  Mr.  Silver- 
master's  file  was  not  there.  Other  individuals  who  were  employed  in 
the  agency,  their  files  were  there,  but  not  Mr.  Silvermaster's. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Will  you  keep  our  investigators  at  work  until  they 
locate  the  files  or  the  man  who  let  them  get  away  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes,  sir.  Further  information  in  the  file  of  Mr. 
Ullmann  refiects  that  Thomas  E.  Blaisdell,  Jr.,  Securities  and  Ex- 
change Commission,  was  interviewed  January  12,  1939,  in  a  routine 
investigation  conducted  by  the  Treasury  Department,  and  stated: 

"I  don't  know  Mv.  Ullmann.  My  impression  is  he  is  a  forward- 
looking  and  fairly  able  person." 

That  is  all  we  have  on  Mr.  Ullmann. 

Mr.  Nixon.  That  state'ment  was  by  whom? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Thomas  E.  Blaisclell,  Jr. 

Mr.  Nixon.  In  regard  to  Mr.  Ullmann? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Proceed,  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  first  meet  Mr.  Ullmann  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  met  Mr.  Ullmann,  I  think,  toward  the  end  of  July 
1941,  shortly  after  I  made  the  acquaintance—— 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  did  you  learn  of  his  background? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  had  learned  that  he  came  from  an  upper-class 
family  out  in,  I  believe,  Missouri;  that  he  had  never  had  a  tre- 
mendously big  position  until  he  met  the  Silvermasters,  but  he  liad  had 
various  positions — I  understand  he  was  a  tennis  professional  and  gave 
tennis  lessons  at  one  time  and  had  other  sorts  of  jobs  until  he  came 
lo  Washington,  and  I  believe  the  Silvermasters  met  him  when  he  was 
employed  by  the  Treasury. 


608  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Their  description  of  his  job  at  that  time  was  that  of  a  clerk.  I  don't 
Ifnow  if  that  was  the  tj'pe  of  work  he  did. 

The  Silvermasters  entertained  a  great  deal  and  frequently  had 
parties  at  their  home,  and  I  understand  that  someone,  I  don't  know 
who,  brought  Mr,  Ulhnann  to  one  of  these  parties.  He  made  the  ac- 
quaintance of  the  Silvermasters.  They  discovered  that  he  was  a  very 
able  person,  very  intelligent  person,  in  spite  of  the  position  that  he 
was  then  holding  in  the  Treasury,  and  they  thought  that  he  would  be 
a  very  good  prospect  for  pushing  on  up  in  the  Government  where  he 
could  be  useful. 

Therefore,  according  to  them,  anyway,  through  their  efforts  Mr. 
UUmann  was  pushed  from  job  to  job  until  he  got  into  some  quite 
important  ones. 

He  also  came  to  live  with  them  as  a  boarder  and  had  a  room  witlv 
them,  and  I  believe  ate  most  of  his  meals  with  them. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Miss  Bentley,  in  your  discussions  with  Mr.  and 
Mrs.  Silvermaster,  did  either  one  of  them  ever  tell  you  that  they  were 
acquainted  with  Earl  Browder? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  they  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  they  tell  you  the  circumstances  under  which 
they  met  Earl  Browder? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  don't  know  exactly  when  Gregory  Silvermaster 
met  Mv.  Browder,  but  I  know  when  ^Irs.  Silvermaster  did.  I  believe 
that  Mr.  Silvermaster  had  known  Earl  Browder  prior  to  the  general 
strike  in  San  Francisco  in  the  early  thirties.  Was  that  1933  or  1934, 
along  in  there?  Eai'l  Browder  had  come  to  San  Francisco  because  of 
the  strike,  and  tlie  vigilantes  at  that  time  were  looking  for  him  in  a 
house-to-house  search,  and  Mr.  Browder  came  to  the  Silvermasters' 
home,  where  he  w'as  greeted  by  Mrs.  Silvermaster,  who  hadn't  met 
him,  and  he  asked  for  sanctuary. 

Slie  didn't  recognize  him  and  was  frightened  and  refused  to  let 
him  in  until  her  husband  had  returned  home  and  identified  him.  Then 
they  hid  him  out  in  tlieir  house  for  several  days  while  the  vigilantes 
were  looking  for  him. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Avhether  or  not  Nathan  Gregory  Sil- 
\ermaster  was  personally  acquainted  with  Jacob  N.  Golos? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes,  I  do;  and  I  believe  their  acquaintance  dated 
back  at  least  to  the  early  thirties  because  he  knew  Mr.  Golos'  wife  and 
their  son,  and  I  believe  that  their  acquaintance,  although  interrupted 
several  times,  was  quite  a  deep  one. 

Mr.  Stripling.  At  any  time  when  you  were  at  ^Ir.  Silvermaster's 
home  here  in  Washington  did  you  meet  an  individual  l)y  the  name  of 
George  Silverman  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  would  hardly  call  it  meeting.  I  Avas  sitting  in  the 
kitchen,  Mr.  Silverman  had  come  in  the  front  door  with  some  material 
and  was  leaving  by  the  kitchen  door,  and  he  went  past  very  hurriedly. 
I  was  introduced  by  some  name,  I  do  not  recall,  as  being  a  friend  of 
Mrs.  Helen  Silvermaster,  and  he  went  out  the  kitchen  door. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  any  discussion  ensue  among  the  Silvermasters 
and  yourself  regarding  Mv.  Silverman's  visit  and  what  his  business 
was? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes.  They  said  that  as  usual  he  had  come  to  bring 
material  and  they  were  quite  u])set  that  I  was  there.  Usually,  you 
see,  they  kept  their  house  clear  the  night  I  was  coming  there  because 


I 


COMMUNIST    ESPIONAGE  609 

they  didn't  \vant  luo  to  meet  other  members  of  the  group,  and  particu- 
larly George  Silverman  was  extremely  nervous  and  they  said  if  he 
realized  Avho  I  was,  he  would  probably  fall  to  pieces — I  believe  Avas 
the  expression  they  used. 

Therefore,  they  felt  that  if  he  had  to  see  me  in  the  kitchen,  it  was 
better  to  pass  me  off  as  a  friend  of  Helen  Silvermaster's  and  gloss  over 
the  situation. 

Mr.  STRirLiNG.  Did  they  indicate  to  you  that  Mr.  Silverman  was 
quite  concerned  with  Avhat  he  was  engaged  in? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  they  said  he  was  very  much  concerned  over  it. 

Mr.  Stripling.  During  this  period  that  3^011  acted  as  courier  and 
that  this  information  was  being  furnished  to  you.  were  you  all  very 
apprehensive  or  what  was  your  altitude? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  I  would  say  every  one  of  us  was. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  sus})ect  surveillance  was  being  kept  on  you? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  take  precautions? 

Miss  Bentley.  Definitely. 

Mr.  INIuNDT.  Miss  Bentley,  while  the  investigator  is  gathering  his 
notes,  I  want  to  find  out  from  you  as  complete  a  list  as  possible  of 
])eople  who  actually  have  seen  this  photographic  apparatus  in  the 
basement  of  ISIr.  Silvermaster.  Will  you  list  them  for  us,  the  people 
who  should  be  able  to  testify  under  oath  that  it  was  there. 

Miss  Bentley.  Mr.  Gregory  Silvermaster,  Mrs.  Gregory  Silver- 
master,  Mr.  Ullmann. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Just  those  three  besides  yourself  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  can  definitely  say  only  those  three.  It  is  possible 
that  one  or  two  others  may,  but  not  to  my  knowledge. 

^Ir.  McDowell.  If  they  were  all  apprehensive  about  all  these  goings 
on,  how  come  thej^  took  you  down  and  showed  j^ou  this  business? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  only  went  down  there  just  once,  toward  the  end 
of  the  time  I  knew  them,  and  they  had  not  taken  me  down  before 
because  they  thought  it  would  be  bad  if  someone  found  me  and  the 
apparatus  simultaneously.  But  I  had  asked  them  about  it.  I  was 
very  curious  about  it,  and  they  took  me  down  one  evening  to  show  me, 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Go  ahead. 

Mr.  Stripling.  INIr.  Chairman.  I  would  like  for  this  witness  to  step 
aside  at  this  time.     I  doii't  want  to  go  into  these  other  individuals. 

Mr.  Hep.ert.  May  I  ask  a  question  ? 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Hebert. 

]Mr.  Hebert.  Miss  Bentley,  this  time  you  say  they  took  you  down 
to  see  the  photographic  set-up  downstairs  and  that  they  didn't  want 
you  to  be  discovered  with  the  photographic  equipment — what  did  they 
say  that  would  give  you  that  impression?  What  was  j'our  conversa- 
tion? 

Miss  Bentley.  They  had  been  constantly  saying  each  time  I  was 
there  or  every  so  often  that  they  did  not  think  it  was  a  good  idea  for 
me  to  be  down  in  the  basement,  and  not  a  good  idea  for  all  of  us  to  be 
down  there  simultaneously. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  I  am  trying  to  get  from  you  is  v.hat  did  they 
say?  Not  your  words,  but  their  language.  What  did  they  say  ?  Did 
they  say,  "Helen,"'  or  whatever  they  called  you,  "we  have  got  some 

80408 — 48 8 


610  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

photog-raphic  equipment  .doAviistairs  for  the  purpose  of  pliotograph- 
mp:  these  docunrents  and  we  don't  want  you  down  there  T' 

Miss  Bextley.  Nothing  ^vas  ever  put  that  plainly  in  espionage. 
They  merely  said  it  was  not  a  wise  thing;  it  is  taking  chances. 

Mr.  Hebekt.  Not  a  wise  thing,  taking  chances,  doing  what? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  was  understo(xl,  that  we  did  not  take  extra 
chances. 

Mr.  PIebeut.  Doing  what?  How  do  you  know  there  was  a  photo- 
graphic set-up  down  there? 

Miss  Benti>ey.  I  had  known  it  ever  since  it  was  set  up. 

Mr.  Hekekt.  Who  told  you? 

Miss  Benteey.  Mr.  Ullmann  and  the  Silvermasters  told  me  origi- 
nally when  they  set  it  up. 

Mr.  Hebert."  What  did  they  tell  you? 

Miss  Bextley.  They  told  me  they  had  set  up  this  apparatus  in  the 
basement  to  photograph  documents. 

Mr.  Hebert.  They  told  you  they  had  set  up  photographic  equipment 
to  photograi)h  these  documents? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  w^ere  down  there  on  one  occasion  only  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Describe  that  equijiment  to  us. 

Miss  Bentley.  It  is  rather  dilhcidt  because  I  don't  know  too  nuich 
about  photographic  apparatus,  but  any  photographer  could  describe 
it  better. 

^Ir.  Hi^:BERT.  Did  they  have  pans  with  acid? 

Miss  Bentley.  They  were  photographing  only  and  not  developing 
the  films. 

Mr.  Hebert.  The  microfilms,  the  little  ones? 

Miss  Bentley.  They  had  a  Contax  camera.  Without  drawing  it  I 
don't  know  how  to  describe  it. 

Mr.  Hebert.  These  documents  you  handed  them  to  photograph ;  did 
you  witness  them  photographing  the  documents? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  were  those  documents? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  can't  tell  you  which  particular  ones  they  Avere 
photographing.     They  had  a  whole  stack. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Didn't  you  look  at  some  of  them? 

Miss  Bentley.  No. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Your  curiosity  was  not  aroused,  that  you  didn't  look 
at  these  secret  documents? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  only  looked  at  them  when  they  asked  me.  That 
was  one  of  the  principles.     You  didn't  want  to  know. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  looked  only  when  they  asked  you? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Hebert,  When  did  they  ask  you  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Many  times  we  would  go  through  the  documents  and 
see  which  I  felt  were  important  enough  to  be  photographed.  You 
have  so  much  film  and  have  to  be  economical  with  it,  and  we  were 
therefore  going  through  these  stacks  of  documents  to  see  which  ones 
we  thought  would  be  valuable. 

Mr.  Hebert.  It  was  on  3'our  judgment? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  611 

Miss  Bentley.  Not  entirely.  In  lots  of  matters  I  dichrt  know 
enough  about  the  material  to  jndoe,  and  I  took  their  word  for  it,  but 
it  some  cases  they  took  my  word. 

Mr.  Hebert.  These  documents ;  were  they  statistical  reports  on  writ- 
ten letters  or  interoffice  communications  or  memoranda? 

Miss  Bentlet.  All  sorts  of  things.  They  were  letters;  they  were 
production  statistics,  airplane  statistics;  they  were  practically  every 
type  of  document. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Did  they  have  any  stamp  on  them  marked  secret  or 
confidential? 

]\Iiss  Bentley.  Some  were  marked  secret  and  some  confidential. 
Mr.  Hebert.  You  saw  the  stamp  on  them? 
Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  I  did. 

Mr.  AIcDowELL.  Miss  Bentley,  in  your  conversations  about  this 
photographic  equipment,  was  it  ever  indicated  where  the  other  end  of 
this  stuff  was — where  they  were  developed  ?  Would  it  be  New  York, 
INIoscow,  or  would  you  have  any  idea  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Originally  when  they  were  making — I  should  say 
l^ack  at  the  end  of  11)41  or  possibly  1942  when  they  were  doing  not  too 
much  photographic  work,  ]ust  starting,  they  developed  their  own  film 
when  they  took  three  or  four  rolls. 

When  the  bulk  increased  it  was  obviously  impossible  for  them  to 
j)hotograph  and  develop.  It  took  too  much  time.  They  were  told 
to  give  me  the  film  as  it  was  without  being  developed  and  I  would  take 
it  to  New  York. 

Yes.  it  was  discussed,  because  they  often  asked  me  how  the  film 
came  out  and  whether  or  not  it  had  taken  well,  because  in  many  cases 
they  had  carbon  copies,  which  I  understand  are  rather  difficult  to 
photograph  well. 

^Ir.  McDowell.  Would  you  have  any  idea  where  the  other  .enc^  of 
tliis  was?  Did  you  see  the  films  after  they  were  developed  in  New 
York,  ever  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  I  did  not.  They  were  turned  over  to  a  Russian 
contact.  He  told  me  they  were  developed  in  this  country  and  he 
would  tell  me  whicli  ones  were  bad  and  which  good  so  we  could  dupli- 
cate them  if  one  didn't  turn  out. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Sometimes  you  would  be  tolcl  to  do  it  again? 
]\riss  Bentley.  If  it  €ould  be  obtained  again,  we  did-     Sometimes 
that  document  was  passing  through  somebody's  desk  and  wouldn't 
return  and  they  couldn't  grab  it,  and  sometimes  it  went  to  a  file. 

]Mr.  McDowell.  It  was  absolutely  sure  that  there  was  another  unit 
of  this  spy  ring,  somebody  in  New  York  developing  these  pictures? 

Miss  Benti.ey..  I  don't  know  what  you  mean  by  a  unit,  but  it  Avas 
probably  the  Russian  consulate  or  Russian  Embassy. 
Mr.  :^icDow^ELL.  That  is  all. 
Mr.  MuNDT.  You  may  step  aside. 
Mr.  Stripling,  call  your  next  witness. 
Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Russell. 
Mr.  INIuNDT.  INIr.  Russell,  will  you  be  sworn  ? 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  the  testimony  you  are  about  to  give  will  be  - 
the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God? 
Mr.  Russell.  I  do. 


612  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

TESTIMONY  OF  LOUIS  J.  ETJSSELL 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Russell,  will  you  state  your  full  name. 

Mr:  Russell.  Louis  J.  Russell. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  are  an  investigator  for  the  Committee  on  Un- 
American  Activities  ? 

Mr.  Russell,  I  am. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  were  you  appointed? 

Mr.  Russell.  May  15,  1945. 

Mr.  Si  rifling.  Are  3'ou  a  former  FBI  agent? 

Mr.  Russell.  I  am. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  were  3^011  with  the  FBI  ? 

Mr.  Russell.  For  10  years. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  connection  with  your  duties  as  an  investigator 
for  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  were  you  instructed 
last  year  to  begin  an  investigation  of  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster  ? 

Mr.  Russell.  I  was. 

Mr.  Stripling.  With  particular  reference  to  his  employment  in  the- 
Federal  Government? 

Mr.  Russell.  I  was. 

Mr.  Stripling.  And  his  involvement  with  alleged  Soviet  espionage 
activities  ? 

Mr.  Russell.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  now  detail  to  the  committee  the  results  of 
your  investigation  as  you  obtained  them  from  the  Government  files 
and  upon  the  investigations  of  investigators  who  worked  under  you  in 
tliis  particular  case. 

Mr.  Russell.  I  will,  omitting  certain  phases  of  the  investigation, 

Mr.  Stripling.  That  is  agreeable. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Yes. 

Mr,  Stripling.  AYe  don't  want  to  go  into  certain  phases  of  this  re- 
port at  this  time,  and  if  it  is  agreeable  with  the  Chair,  he  will  skip 
over  that  part. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Very  well. 

Mr.  Russell.  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster  was  born  in  Russia  in 
1808.  He  entered  the  United  States  from  China  where  he  had  attended 
school. 

Silvermaster  became  a  naturalized  citizen  of  the  United  States  in 
1927.  He  received  an  A.  B.  degree  from  the  University  of  Wa^^hing- 
ton,  which  is  located  in  Seattle,  Wash.,  in  1920.  In  1932  he  received  a 
Ph.  D.  degree  from  the  University  of  California. 

Silvermaster  was  employed  as  a  professor  bv  St.  Marv's  College  at 
Oakland,  Calif.,  from  1924  through  1931.  From  193^  to  August  1935 
he  was  employed  intermittently  by  the  State  of  California.  From 
August  1935  until  November  1938  he  was  employed  by  the  Farm  Se- 
curity Administration  of  the  United  States  Government.  From  No- 
vember 1938  to  July  19-10  he  was  employed  by  the  Maritime  Lab  )r 
J3oard  in  Washington,  D.  C.  From  July  1940  until  December  28.  194  k 
lie  was  employed  by  the  Department  of  Agriculture.  From  December 
29, 1944,  to  April  30, 1945,  Silvermaster  was  employed  by  the  Treasury 
Department  of  the  United  States  Government  as  an  economist.  On 
February  1,  1945,  Silvermaster  was  ])romoted  to  a  position  i)aying 
$8,000  per  annum  with  the  Procurement  Division  of  the  Ti'easuiy 
Department.    From  Ma}'  1  to  November  4,  1945,  he  was  employed  ])y 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  613 

the  Department  of  Commerce  in  the  Surplus  Property  Office.  From 
November  5,  1945,  to  ]March  24,  1946,  Silvermaster  was  employed  by 
the  War  Assets  Administration. 

While  Avith  the  War  Assets  Administration,  Silvermaster  was  em- 
ployed at  a  salary  of  $10,000  per  annum.  Shortly  before  his  resigna- 
tion from  the  War  Assets  Administration  in  March  1946,  Silvermaster 
received  a  reduction  in  grade  amounting  to  $2,000  per  year.  Because 
of  this  reduction  in  salary,  he  resigned  from  his  position  with  the  War 
Assets  Administration  and  gave  as  the  reason  therefor  the  following 
statement : 

Having  performed  outstanding  service  in  the  field  of  surplus  property  disposal 
since  July  1944,  I  have  refused  to  accept  an  arbitrary  demotion  in  status  from 
that  of  Director  of  tlie  Economic  and  Market  Research  Division,  Office  of  Planning 
and  Policy,  to  that  of  Deputy  Director,  Planning  and  Researcli  Division,  Office  of 
Ileal  Property  Disposal. 

On  February  25,  1944,  the  Special  Committee  on  Un-American  Ac- 
tivities, popularly  known  as  the  Dies  committee,  subpenaed  certain 
records  from  the  Civil  Service  Conmiission.  Among  the  reports  sub- 
mitted to  the  Special  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  in  com- 
pliance with  the  subpena  were  reports  dated  from  May  6  to  December 
^,  1942.  These  reports  had  been  submitted  to  the  Civil  Service  Com- 
mission as  a  I'esult  of  an  investigation  which  the  Commission  had  con- 
ducted at  a  time  when  Silvermaster  was  under  consideration  for  trans- 
fer to  the  position  of  head  economic  analyst,  Board  of  Economic  War- 
fare, at  a  salary  rating  of  $6,500  annually.  Silvermaster,  at  the  time 
of  this  investigation,  desired  to  transfer  from  the  Department  of  Agri- 
culture. Farm  Security  Administration,  where  lie  was  employed  as 
Director  of  the  Labor  Division. 

The  following  is  based  upon  reports  contained  in  the  Civil  Service 
Commission  file  which  was  subpenaed  February  25,  1944,  by  the 
Special  Connnittee  on  Un-American  Activities,  popularly  known  as 
the  Dies  committee. 

Contained  in  one  of  the  reports  subpenaed  from  the  Civil  Service 
■Commission  in  1944  are  the  following  statements: 

There  is  considerable  testimony  in  the  tile  indicating  that  about  1^20.  the 
applicant  was  an  midtrsrnund  agent  for  the  Ccnununist  I'arty.  From  that  time 
he  has  bt'en,  according  to  the  testimony  of  numerous  witnesses,  everything  from 
a  fellow  traveler  to  an  agent  for  the  OGPU  (Russian  Secret  Police).  He  has 
been  known  and  listed  in  tlie  files  of  the  Seattle  Police  Department,  the  Thirteenth 
Naval  District,  the  San  Francisco  Police  Department,  the  subversive  unit  of  the 
American  Legion  at  San  Francisco,  and  the  Federal  Bureau  of  Investigation,  an 
a  member  and  leader  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Several  score  of  witnesses  were  interviewed  at  the  various  points  of  investiga- 
tion and  the  testimony  was  overwhelmingly  to  the  effect  that  from  the  time 
that  the  applicant  entered  this  country  t<i  the  present  date,  he  has  chosen  as  his 
clo.se  fi-iends  and  associates,  men  and  women  who  were  either  members  of  the 
Communist  Party,  or  who  by  their  membership  and  affiliations  in  subversive  and 
front  organizations,  indicated  their  sympathy  for  the  aims  and  polices  of  the 
Communist  Party.  Those  facts  were  confirmed  in  part  by  the  applicant  at  the 
time  of  .special  hearings.  He  admitted  his  close  association  with  the  persons 
referred  to  in  the  testimony  of  various  witnesses,  among  whom  are  well-knowa 
Communists.  He  admitted  that  he  is  aware  of  the  fact  that  Richard  Bransten, 
alias  Richard  Brandstein,  alias  Bruce  Minton,  is  a  member  of  the  Conununist 
Party  and  is  at  present  an  editor  of  New  Masses.  He  stated  that  Bransten  is 
one  of  his  close.st  social  fri.Mids  at  this  time  and  that  he  and  his  wife  wer'  ?;u"sta 
in  the  Bransten  home  along  with  Paul  Robeson  and  Lee  Pressman,  2  weeks  befor<» 
the  hearing. 


014  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

The  appliotint  stated  that  his  only  conta.t  with  Earl  Browder  was  when  they 
met  at  a  huiclKM)n  of  the  Commonwealth  Club  at  San  Francisco  in  the  summer 
of  11)37.  He  stated  that  he  was  a  regular  attendant  at  the  meetings  and  par- 
ticipated in  the  projiram  of  this  club. 

It  should  be  noted  that  numerous  witnesses  and  the  tiles  of  various  subversive 
units  allege  that  the  applicant  was  a  member  of  the  Fillmore  section  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  at  San  Francisco. 

Various  witnesses  and  the  files  of  various  subversive  units  allege  that  the 
applicant  was  clo.sely  associated  with  Sam  Darcy  and  Harry  Bridges,  and 
alternated  with  Bridges  in  talking  to  the  waterfront  strikers  in  San  Francisco. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  referred  to  various  subversive  units.  Would 
you  amplify  the  statement?  Were  you  referring  to  files  of  various 
agencies  ? 

Mr.  KussELL.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yen  are  referring  to  Government  agencies? 

Mr.  KussELL.  That  is  right. 

The  applicant  at  tlie  si)ecial  hearing  denied  talking  to  the  strikers  during  the 
water-front  strike  and  explained  that  his  association  with  Darcy  and  Bridges 
became  necessary  because  of  the  position  he  held  with  the  Maritime  Labor  Board. 
There  is  considerable  testimony,  however,  that  he  was  in  close  contact  with 
them  before  he  was  appointed  to  tlie  Maritime  Board  and  the  applicant  admitted 
that  he  had  been  a  guest  at  a  party  given  by  Sam  Kagel  at  which  Bridges  was  also 
present  and  that  Harry  Bridges  and  Sam  Kagel  were  guests  of  his  home  within 
the  last  few  months. 

I  might  say  that  in  view  of  the  fact  that  there  are  so  many  persons 
identified  in  here  no  further  identifying  data  other  than  that  given  in 
the  Civil  Service  Commission  reports  have  been  included  at  this  time. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Have  you  stated,  Mr.  Russell,  that  this  civil-service 
file — that  file,  Mr.  Chairman,  was  subpenaed  in  1944  by  the  Special 
Committee  on  Un-American  Activities.  It  is  not  a  complete  file.  The 
Civil  Service  Ccmimission  refused  at  the  time  to  honor  the  subpena  by 
furnishing  the  entire  file,  u])on  the  direction  of  the  President  of  the 
United  States,  because  he  said  it  would  not  be  in  the  public  interest 
to  do  so.  We  did  receive  that  nuich  of  it,  however,  and  a  number  of 
these  quotations,  which  Mr.  Russell  is  giving,  are  from  that  file  based 
upon  their  investigations  and  information  they  received  from  other 
Govermnent  agencies. 

Mr.  Russell.  This  is  also  from  the  Civil  Service  Commission  repoi't  : 

The  title  of  the  applicant's  thesis  when  he  received  his  Ph.  D.  at  the  University 
of  California  in  l'Xi'2  was  Lenin's  Contribution  to  Economic  Thouglit  I'rior  to 
the  Bolshevik  Revolution.  This,  in  itself,  would  not  necessarily  be  signiticant 
of  his  political  philosophy  but  when  considered  witli  the  testimony  of  the  witnesses 
relating  to  his  C<  mmunist  activities,  it  appears  to  be  liiglily  signiticant. 

Tlie  applicant  denied  that  he  was  an  agent  of  the  OGPU  or  a  member  of  the 
Comnumist  Party.  Former  members  of  tlie  Communist  I'arty  state  that  when 
a  Communist  is  asked  as  to  his  membership  in  the  party,  he  at  that  moment  ceases 
to  be  a  member  until  he  answers  in  the  negative.  After  he  makes  answer  }iis 
niemliership  is  reinstated  according  to  Connnuiiist  doctrines. 

It  is  possible  that  some  of  tl^e  testimony  in  this  case  is  unreliable  but  granting 
such,  the  overwhelming  amount  of  testimony  from  the  many  and  varied  witnesses 
and  sources,  indicates  beyond  reasonable  doubt  that  Nathan  (Jregory  Silvermaster 
is  now.  and  has  for  years,  been  a  member  and  a  leader  of  tiie  Ctmimunist  X'arty, 
and  very  probably  a  secret  agent  of  tlie  OGPU. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Russell,  you  are  quoting  from  the  Civil  S?rvice 
i'e]:)ort  ? 

INIr.  Rt^ssELL.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Is  that  last  statement  you  made  from  tlie  Civil  Service 
leport  ? 


\ 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  615 

Mr.  llussELL.  That  is  in  the  Civil' Service  Commission  report. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Tlie  Civil  Service  Commission  says  he  probably  is  a 
member  of  the  OGPU.  which  is  the  state  secret  police  agency  of  the 
Communist  Party  of  Russia? 

Mr.  KussELL.  That  is  right ;  better  known  as  the  XKYD,  and  since 
then  as  the  MVD.  but  it  is  the  same  thing. 

Mr,  SxRirLixG.  Would  j^ou  identif}-  the  person  who  prepared  that 
memorandum  i 

Mr,  Russell.  There  were  so  many  it  will  be  difficult  to  locate  them, 
but  I  can  find  it. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Mr.  Chairman.  I  will  be  glad  to  show  this  to  the 
connnittee.  However,  since  this  man  is  still  an  agent  of  the  investi- 
gatoi-y  body  of  the  Federal  Government,  I  don't  think  it  would  be 
wise  to  make  his  name  public.     I  will  submit  it  to  you. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Show  us  his  name  later. 

]\Ir.  Russell.  Based  upon  a  statement  which  I  read  as  contained  in 
the  Civil  Service  Commission  files,  the  following  recommendation  was 
made  by  the  investigator : 

It  is  hereby  recommended  that  the  applicant  be  declared  ineligible  for  the 
jjosition  of  head  economist.  Board  of  Economic  Warfare.  It  is  further  j-ecom- 
mended  that  all  of  his  eligibilities  be  canceled  and  that  he  be  debarred  for  3- 
years  or  for  the  duration  of  the  emergency.  whiehe\er  be  the  longer.  It  is 
further  recommended  that  the  Secretary  of  Agriculture  be  advised  as  to  the 
derogatory  information  received  concei'ning  the  applicant  in  the  course  of  this 
investigation. 

.  As  a  result  of  the  statements  mentioned  above,  Mr.  R.  E,  Green- 
field, a  rating  and  reviewing  analyst  for  the  Civil  Service  Commission^ 
made  the  following  recommendation  on  July  16,  1942 : 

Ineligible,  cancel  Mr.  Silvermaster's  eligibilities  on  the  senior  social  .-science 
analyst  register,  cancel  any  and  all  other  pending  applications  or  eligibilities 
he  may  haA'e,  and  bar  him  for  the  duration  of  the  national  emergency. 

Another  section  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission  reports,  as  set 
forth  under  a  heading  "Evidence  of  Disloyalty,''  contains  the  follow- 
ing statement : 

Tliere  is  considerable  testimony  in  the  file  indicating  that  about  in  1920 
Mr.  Silvermaster  was  an  underground  agent  of  the  Communist  Party.  From 
that  time  until  the  present,  according  to  the  testimony  of  the  witnesses,  he  has 
been  everything  from  a  fellow  traveler  to  an  agent  of  the  OGFU. 

He  is  listed  in  the  files  of  the  Seattle  police  department  as  follows :  "Gregory  N. 
Silvermaster,  alias  Gregory  Masters,  alias  Nathan  Masters,  as  a  nation;il  com- 
mitteeman at  large  of  the  Communist  Party,  U.  S.  A.  *  *  *  Silvermaster 
was  former  agitation  propagandist  of  the  Fillmore  subsection  in  the  San  Fran- 
cisco, Calif.,  Thirteenth  District  Communist  Party." 

Another  section  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission  report  states: 

The  Thirteenth  Naval  District  files  show  "Original  name,  X.  Zeilberneister, 
member  of  Communist  Party  in  Seattle,  \Yash.  (no  date),  completely  under- 
ground in  1920." 

Another  section  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission  reports,  which,  as 
stated,  were  subpenaed  in  1944.  contains  this  statement : 

A  great  many  witnesses  were  interviewed  during  the  investigation  iu  this 
ease  and  the  testimony  is  overwhelmingly  to  the  effect  that  from  the  time  Mr. 
Silvermaster  entered  this  country  to  the  present  time,  he  has  chosen  as  his 
clo.«e  friends  and  associates  men  and  women  who  are  either  members  of  the 
Communist  I'arty  or  who  by  their  membership  and  affiliation  in  subversive  and 
fi-ont  organizations  indicate  their  sympathy  for  the  aims  and  policies  of  the 
Communist  Party.     At  the  hearing  Mr.  Silvermaster  admitted  various  associa- 


616  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

tious  with  approximately  50  persons  listed  by  the  witnesses  in  the  investigation, 
among  whom  are  well-known  Comnnuiists.  Harry  Bridges,  according  to  Mr. 
Silvermaster,  was  in  Washington  "early  this  summer"  (1942)  and  contacted 
Mr.  Silvermaster  officially  and  also  came  to  his  home  regarding  certain  opera- 
tions of  the  waterfront  on  the  Pacific  coast.  The  list  of  persons  i-eferred  to 
included  the  names  of  32  jiersons  listed  as  Communists  or  alleged  Communists 
by  the  Federal  Bureau  of  Investigation.  Military  Intelligence,  or  various  police 
departments.  As  an  indication  that  Mr.  Silvermaster  has  continued  such  asso- 
■ciations  up  until  the  present  time,  he  listed  Mrs.  Emily  Blair,  Mr.  Harry  Blair, 
Mr.  Harry  D.  White,  Mr.  Lee  Pressman,  and  Mr.  Richard  Bransten,  alias  Bruce 
Minton 

Mr.  STRiPLiNrx.  Have  all  these  people  been  previously  identified  in 
connection  with  this  particular  hearing? 

Mr.  Russell.  Mrs.  Emily  Blair  was  identified  when  the  record  of 
Ullmann  was  read  into  the  record  this  morning  as  having  been  tlie 
employer  of  Ullmann. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Richard  Bransten  has  been  identified  i^reviously? 

Mr.  Russell.  Previously  identified. 

Mr.  Stripling.  And  also  in  the  Hollywood  investigation. 

Mr.  Russell.  Yes.  His  first  wife,  Louise  Bransten,  was  also  iden- 
tified.    Her  name  appears  subsequently. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Don't  read  any  names  which  have  not  been  brought 
into  this  particular  hearing. 

Mr,  Russell.  All  right. 


"^te* 


He  admitted  that  he  knows  that  Mr.  Bransten  is  an  avowed  and  open  Com- 
munist and  the  editor  of  New  Masses. 

Other  comments  contained  in  the  Civil  Service  Commission  file  are 
as  follows : 

It  is  considered  that  the  developments  in  this  case  which  include  information 
from  many  and  varied  witnesses  and  sources  raise  beyond  any  i-e.'isonable  doubt 
a  question  of  Mr.  Silvermaster's  loyalty  and  as  that  doubt  should  be  resolved 
in  favor  of  the  Government,  it  is  recommended  that  he  be  rated  ineligible,  that 
his  eligibilities  on  the  senior  social  science  analyst  register  as  well  as  any  and 
all  other  pending  applications  or  existing  eligibilities  he  may  have,  be  canceled 
and  that  he  be  barreil  for  the  duration  of  the  national  emergenc.v. 

Mr.  Mundt.  What  date  was  that  statement  written  by  the  Civil 
Service  Commission? 

Mr.  Russell.  There  were  a  great  number  of  investigative  reports  in 
that  file. 

Mr.  Mundt.  I  want  to  get  the  year. 

Mr.  Russell.  194^. 

Mr.  Mundt.  1942? 

Mr.  Russell.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Mundt.  I  want  to  get  the  chronology  of  this  thing  clear.  As 
I  understand  it — and  it  is  almost  beyond  my  comprehension — as  I 
understand  it.  that  Civil  Service  report  stating  "on  the  basis  of  our 
oflicial  investigative  bodies  of  the  Government — FBI  and  Civil  Service 
and  Intelligence  offices — "that  the  Civil  Service  Commission  felt 
Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster  not  only  was  a  Communist  of  long- 
standing but  jn-obably  a  member  of  the  NKVD  or  OGPU,  the  Russian 
Secret  Police  Society" — find  after  that  report  was  made  available  to 
the  emuloyment  agencies,  he  continued  in  Government  employment, 

Mv.  Russell.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Mundt.  For  how  long  after? 

Mr.  Ri'SSELL.  E.xcuse  me  for  a  moment.  It  was  until  1946.  Toward 
the  conclusion  of  this  report  there  is  a  statement  covering  that. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  617 

Ml'.  MuxDT.  To  a  country  boy  from  South  Dakota  where  we  don't 
do  things  like  that,  that  is  ahnost  beyond  comprehension,  but  as  long 
as  you  have  the  files  of  the  Civil  Service  Connnission  there  and  are 
reading  from  them,  and  we  have  the  testimony  of  Silvermaster  him- 
self, plus  the  (xovernment  record  that  he  was  employed  until  1946^ 
we  must  accept  it  for  fact. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  it  wouhl  be  helpful  if  the^ 
agencies  by  whom  Silvermaster  was  employed  after  the  date  of  this 
report  could  appear  in  the  record  at  this  point  so  that  the  people,  in 
other  woj-ds,  who  emploj^ed  this  man  with  knowledge  of  this  particular 
report — that  certainly  should  be  focused  at  this  point  in  the  record  if 
it  is  not  done  so  later  on. 

Mr.  JNIuxnT.  Without  objection,  the  staff  will  place  that  record  in  at 
this  point. 

We  have  the  record  of  the  Silvermaster  employment  many  different 
times,  but  you  can  break  it  down  chronologically  to  show  with  whicli 
(jovernment  agency  he  w^as  employed  subsequent  to  the  time  the  Civil 
Service  Commission  indicated  him  as  a  member  of  the  Russian  secret 
police. 

(The  data  referred  to  is  in  the  files  of  the  committee.) 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  think  it  significant  to  show  that  this  committee  did 
not  come  into  cognizance  of  Silvermaster  until  after  these  reports  were 
made  by  other  Government  agencies.     Is  that  corre(5t? 

Mr.  ]\IuxDT.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripling.  The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities. 

Ml'.  Hebert.  I  am  talking  about  the  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities,  the  old  Dies  committee.  How  long  was  the  Dies  committee 
investigating  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  They  started  in  1938. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  was  prior  to  the  time  he  came  under  the  sur- 
A'eillance  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Dies  tried  to  get  him  fired. 

i\Ir.  Hebert.  He  was  already  in  government? 

]Mr.  Stripling.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Prior  to  the  time  that  former  Congressman  Dies  tried 
to  get  him  fired  for  his  communistic  activities,  was  the  Govern.ment 
cognizant  of  the  fact  that  he  had  these  associations? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Here  is  the  record,  ]\lr.  Hebert.     They  were ;  yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  am  tr^nng  to  establish  this :  Silvermaster  indicated 
that  this  is  just  another  link  in  a  smear  campaign  by  this  conunittee 
against  him. 

Mr.  Stripling.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  want  the  record  to  show  that  the  Government  agency- 
was  actually  cognizant  prior  to  the  activities  of  this  committee  of 
Silvermaster's  communistic  attachmeaits  and  affiliations. 

Mr.  Stripling.  According  to  the  record,  the  reason  he  wasn't  re- 
moved was  because  he  went  to  the  White  House  and  got  Mr.  Currie  to 
go  to  Mr.  Patterson  in  his  behalf. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  want  to  establish  the  fact  that  the  cogniz mt  (jovern- 
ment  agency  had  known  of  his  communistic  attachments  and  aflilia- 
tions  prior  to  the  investigation  instituted  bv  the  old  Dies  committee. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  will  have  to  check  into  it  to  see  if  it  was  prior  to 
1938. 


'618  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  MuxHT.  For  the  purpose  of  correctino-  the  record,  Mr.  Hebert, 
when  the  Chair  asked  Mr.  Silverniaster  whether  he  thought  this  con- 
spiracy to  smear  him,  of  which  he  spoke,  was  initiated  by  and  con- 
ducted by  this  committee,  he  said  "No."  I  then  asked  him  whether 
it  was  the  FBI,  and  he  gave  a  rather  vague  and  indefinite  reply  to 
that  question  but  did  not  say  this  committee  was  endeavoring  to  smear 
him, 

Mr.  Russell.  This  statement  is  a  quotation  from  the  Civil  Service 
Commission  report : 

Silvermaster,  of  course,  denied  any  implications  tliat  he  is  a  Communist. 
In  my  opinion,  sucli  denials  sound  indeed  empty  in  the  face  of  the  cumulative 
evidence  that  he  is  a  Communist  of  great  importance. 

The  opinion  expressed  is  by  the  Civil  Service  Commission,  not 
mine. 

It  will  be  noted  that  the  testimony  linking  Silvermaster  with  communism 
and  with  the  OGPU  (tlie  Russian  secret  police)  comes  not  only  from  persons 
without  any  ax  to  grind  who  have  made  a  study  of  Communist  activities  and 
personalities,  but  from  persons  who  are  themselves  in  the  Connnunist  movement 
or  members  of  the  Communist  Party  and  in  the  best  position  to  furnish  informa- 
tion concerning  Silvermaster. 

As  in  all  such  cases,  the  evidence  is  circumstantial.  It  is  so  strong,  however, 
that  I  am  convinced,  after  reading  the  file,  that  Silvermaster  is  in  fact  a  Com- 
munist and  a  worker  for  the  Communist  cause. 

This  [the  following]  is  not  a  quotation.  This  is  an  investigative 
report  of  the  committee: 

With  reference  to  the  proposed  transfer  of  Nathan  Gregory  Silver- 
master  to  the  Board  of  Economic  Warfare  from  the  Farm  Security 
Administration,  which  was  the  basis  for  the  Civil  Service  Commis- 
sion's investigation,  it  should  be  noted  that  the  Civil  Service  Com- 
mission received  a  communication  from  the  Board  of  Economic 
Warfare  which  stated,  in  part: 

*  *  *  action  looking  to  Mr.  Silvermaster's  employment  in  such  a  position 
has  been  discontinued,  and  any  investigations  which  might  now  be  in  progress 
can  be  canceled. 

A  memorandum  in  the  Civil  Service  Commission  file  regarding 
the  request  for  termination  of  the  Silvermaster  investigation  by  the 
Board  of  Economic  Warfare  contains  this  statement : 

This,  of  course,  ends  the  matter  insofar  as  the  Board  of  Economic  Warfare 
is  concerned.  As  the  Commission  may  recall,  we  have  made  an  exceedingy 
comprehensive  investigation  of  Mr.  Silverniiister  at  aljout  half  a  dozen  localities 
in  this  country.  The  case  was  regarded  as  a  very  close  and  important  one. 
The  last  di^tei-mi nation  was  that  it  would  probably  be  necessary  to  make  even 
furtlier  investigation. 

It  is  doubtful  if  in  view  of  the  turn  the  case  has  taken  we  have  a  good  basis 
lor  proceeding  with  the  investigation.  It  is  believed,  however,  tliat  we  should 
invite  an  inspection  of  the  tile  by  officials  of  th>  Department  of  Agriculture, 
Mr.   Silvermaster  apparently  still   being  in  tbe  Faim  S-^curity  Administratidn. 

In  tliis  connection  it  might  be  pointed  out  that  much  of  the  evidence  in  tlie 
case  points  to  the  fact  tliat  ?.Ir.  Silvermaster  is  one  of  the  really  imijortant 
operatives  of  the  undercover  Communist  Party  in  the  I'nited  States.  II?  has 
been  employed  by  tbe  Farm  Security  Administration  for  a  niunb  n-  oi  years, 
i-pecilically  from  IDS")  to  193S,  and  iSI-io  to  date. 

Mr.  Hkber^'.  May  I  interrupt^  I  want  to  get  this  straight  in  my 
own  mind.  What  you  are  reading  is  quotes  from  the  Civil  Service  file 
repoits,  and  is  not  an  expression  of  your  opinion  or  the  o]")inioii  of 
anv  member  of  the  committee'^ 

]\[r.  Russ?:ll.  That  is  right. 


\ 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  619 

Mv.  Stripling.  This  is  tlie  Civil  Service. 

Mv.  Ri'ssELL.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Stripling.  The  letter  you  read  in  connection  with  tlie  barring 
of  Silvermaster  from  eniph)vment  by  the  Government,  was  that  an 
official  act  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission  ? 

Mr.  Russell.  That  was. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  other  words,  the  Civil  Service  Connnission — and 
T  am  speaking-  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission  and  talkhig  of  tlie 
Commission  itself,  the  top  three — under  their  authority  wrote  an  order 
telling  the  Government  not  to  employ  Silvermaster  because  of  the 
confirmation  in  their  minds  of  these  conclusions  which  you  are  reading 
from  their  report,  in  addition  also  to  the  report  from  Naval  Intelli- 
gence. 

Mr.  Russell.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripling,  That  is  correct? 

Mr.  Ri'ssELL.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Then  after  the  Civil  Service  Commission  formally 
and  officially  instructed  the  governmental  agencies  not  to  employ 
Silvermaster,  he  then  went  to  Lauchlin  Currie.  who  in  turn  w^ent  to 
Secretary  Patterson,  who  in  turn  wrote  the  letter  which  has  been 
introduced  in  evidence  removing  the  bar  of  the  Civil  Service  Com- 
mission and  allowing  him  to  be  employed  bv  the  Government ;  is  that 
right? 

Mr.  Rltssell.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Stripling.  That  is  it  ? 

INIr.  Russell.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripling.  There  was  an  official  action  by  the  Civil  Service 
Coitimission  overridden. by  the  then  Secretary  of  War  through  the 
intercession  of  an  administrative  assistant  from  the  White  House. 

Mv.  Russell.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  think  the  record  should  show  that  administrative  as- 
sistant w^as  Lauchlin  Currie,  because  there  were  several  administrative 
assistants. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  that  connection  does  the  file  show,  Mr.  Russell, 
that  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster  gave  Lauchlin  Currie  as  a  ref- 
erence? 

Mr.  Russell.  In  the  interview  which  the  Civil  Service  Commission 
conducted  with  Mr.  Silvermaster  there  is  a  statemet  to  the  effect  that 
he  is  a  friend  of  Lauchlin  Currie. 

INIr.  Stripling.  Who  else  did  he  list  as  a  reference  or  friend? 

Mr.  Ri'ssELL.  He  listed  Harry  D.  White  as  a  social  acquaintance  as 
well  as  Mr.  White's  wife.  He  also  listed  Nathan  Witt,  and  there  are 
numerous  individuals  whom  he  identified  during  the  course  of  his 
interrogation  by  the  Civil  Service  Commission  whom  he  would  not 
identify  when  he  appeared  before  this  committee. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  Investigator  William  Wheeler  of  the 
committee  staff  is  prepared  to  testify  that  the  Civil  Service  in  making- 
its  investigation  connnunicated  with  Lauchlin  Currie  as  to  the  fitness 
and  loyalty  of  Mr.  Silvermaster.  Mr.  Currie  recommended  Mr.  Sil- 
vermaster. 

Now,  I  don't  want  to  exi)ose  the  investigator  or  the  people  who 
handled  that  for  the  Government  agency,  but  Mr.  Wheeler  has  a 
direct  statement  to  that  effect  and  will  so  testify,  if  necessary. 


620  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  MuxDT.  We  have  the  name  of  tlie  CIahI  Service  investigator 
who  made  that  statement  ? 

Ml'.  Stripling.  We  do. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  So  if  necessary,  if  Mr.  Currie  comes  in  nnder  oath  and 
denies  that,  we  can  snbpena  him. 

Mr.  S'J'RiPLiNO.  He  is  ah-eady  nnder  subpena. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  The  Chair  wonld  like  to  annonnce  while  counsel  is 
conferring  that  J.  Peters,  alias  Alexander  Stevens,  alias  Isidore 
Boorstein,  who  has  been  bronglit  into  this  liearing  as  one  of  the  key 
lignres  and  one  of  the  master  minds  of  the  whole  cc^ispiracy  and 
whom  we  have  been  trying  to  locate  for  a  long  time  so  we  conld  serve 
a  subpena  on  him,  we  have  just  received  word  from  Mr.  Watson  B. 
Miller,  Commissioner  of  Immigration,  that  they  will  locate  this  man 
for  us  now  so  we  can  serve  a  subpena  upon  him  and  we  shall  serve  it 
forthwith. 

Is  that  all,  Mr.  Stripling,  for  this  morning? 

Mr.  Stripling.  We  would  like  permission  to  include  the  entire 
memorandum,  an  analysis  of  the  Civil  Service  file,  as  well  as  our  own 
investigation,  into  the  record  nnless  the  committee  wants  to  hear 
all  of  it. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  think  the  committee  has  heard  enough  and  you  can 
put  the  whole  statement  into  the  record  so  that  we  will  have  the  whole 
thing  entirely  in  context. 

(The  information  referred  to  is  as  follows:) 

Record  of  J.  Peters,  Aiso  Known  as  J.  Peter,  J.  V.  Peters,  Ai^xandek  ( Jold- 
BERGER,  Roberts,  Steve  Lapin,  Pete  Stevens,  Steve  Mtt.ler.  Isador  Boorstein. 
Steven  Lapur,  Alexander  Stevens 

* 

J.    PETERS 

J.  Peters  is  the  author  of  a  pamiihlet  entitled  "'The  (\iiiiiiiuiiist  Party — A 
Manual  on  Orjianization"  published  hy  the  Workers  Library  Publishers  in  .July 
1932  and  described  his  experiences  in  his  I)ook,  I  Was  a  Soviet  Worker  (Dutton). 

The  I'arty  Or.iianizer  was  for  a  time  an  internal  oi-gan  of  the  ronnnunist  Party. 
USA,  devoted  to  matters  of  oi-gaiiizatiou.  It  was  circiilated  only  within  party 
ranks  and  its  contributors  were  restricted  to  members  of  the  party.  .T.  Peters 
contributed  articles  to  this  magazine  in  its  issues  of  .Tune  1931,  page  1 ;  July  1934, 
page  26  ;  February  1987,  page  7  ;  September  1933. 

The  Communist  was  for  a  number  of  years  the  official,  theoretical,  monthly 
organ  of  the  Communist  Party,  USA.  Its  contributors  were  resti-icted  to  mem- 
bers of  the  party.  Articles  by  .1.  Peters  are  to  be  found  in  the  Communist  for 
September  1933,  page  948,  and  October  1935,  page  lODfi. 

Andrew  Smith  was  an  American  Comnuniist  who  visited  the  Soviet  Union  in 
1932  and  descri))ed  his  experiences  in  his  book  I  Was  a  Soviet  Worker  (Dutton). 
In  the  appendix  of  this  I)ook  are  facsimiles  of  two  documents,  one  certifying  to 
the  relial)ility  of  Andrew  Smith  as  a  Communist  and  also  anncuncing  his  trans- 
fer to  the  Soviet  Union.  The  first  is  dated  March  7,  1932  and  the  second  is  dated 
March  17,  1932.  Both  are  signed  by  .T.  Peters  as  the  "Acting  Representative,  CP 
USA,  E.  C.  C.  I."  (the  abbreviations  stand  for  Communist  Pai-ty,  USA,  Execu- 
tive Committee  of  the  Comnuniist  IntinTiati<'nal ). 

The  Krumliein  Training  Scliool  was  organized  in  193<I  for  the  purpose  of  train- 
ing Conununist  leaders.  It  was  named  in  honor  of  Ciiarles  Krumbein.  a  Com- 
munist leader  now  deceased.  The  I)aily  Worker  of  .lune  S,  193(5,  page  5,  shows 
that  J.  Peters  was  an  instructor  at  the  Ki-umbein  Training  School. 

On  October  .30,  1947,  Louis  .1.  Russell,  investigator  for  the  Ccnunittee  on  Un- 
American  Activities,  subujitted  the  following  testimony  regarding  the  act  vi ties 
of  .1.  Peters : 

''On  May  3,  1942,  Alexander  Stevens,  also  known  as  .1.  Petei'S,  and  whose  real 
name  is  Goldberger,  visited  Los  Angeles,  Calif.  When  he  arrived  in  Los  Angeles 
he  was  met  ))y  Herbert  Riberman  at  the  Union  Station.  During  that  day  a 
meeting  was  held  bv  Alexander   Stevens,   Waldo   Salt,  and   H  Mbert   Bib^rman. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  621 

*  *  *  Also  on  that  same  date  a  third  meeting  was  held  hy  Alexander  Stevens, 
J.  I'eters,  R.  Goldherser.  as  he  is  known,  Morton  Grant,  John  Howard  Lawson, 
and  Vera  Harris,  the  wife  of  Lou  Harris,  a  screen  writer. 

"During  the  evening  of  May  3,  1VA2,  another  meeting  was  held  in  Herhert 
Bib.ernian's  home  between  Stevens  or  I'eters.  John  Howard  Lawson,  Lester  Cole, 
^Madeline  Ruthven,  and  Herta  I'erkvitz.  Lester  Cole  is  a  screen  writer  while 
Ruthveu  I'erkvitz  are  Connnuiiist  Party  functionaries  in  Los  Angeles,  Calif. 
Ruthven,  Lawson.  Stevens,  and  Salt  also  held  a  meeting  on  the  same  date,  late 
at  night,  in  the  home  of  Waldo  Salt.  During  this  visit,  among  other  things, 
Stevens  was  working  on  the  Communist-inspired  movement  to  secure  the  release 
of  Earl  Browder.  Communist  Party  president  at  that  time,  from  a  Federal 
penitentiary,  whei'e  he  had  been  incarcerated  on  a  charge  of  using  a  false  pass- 
port to  travel  to  the  Soviet  Union.  ~ 

"Stevens  also  had  a  very  succes.sful  tinancial  trip  since  he  collected  $1,500,  or 
furnished  this  sum  to  Communist  Party  functionaries  in  California,  which  he 
had  re<-eived  from  Louise  Brausten.  He  also  received  the  sum  of  !j<2,200  from  a 
Ruth  Wilson,  whom  1  can  identify  in  executive  session,     *     *     * 

"Mr.  Stripi.ixg.  Mr.  Chairman,  with  reference  to  J.  Peters,  or  Stevens,  I  should 
like  to  state  that  the  committee  issued  a  subiiena  calling  for  his  appearance 
before  the  conunittee  yesterday.  However,  we  have  b^-en  unable  to  serve  the 
subpena.  It  was  issued  several  months  ago.  He  was  arrested  by  the  inuiiigra- 
tion  authorities  about  3  weeks  ago  in  Poughkeepsie.  N.  Y. 

"The  conunittee  has  evidence  to  show  that  J.  Peters,  or  Alexander  Stevens,  or 
Isadore  Boorstein,  as  he  is  also  known,  has  for  years  been  the  leader  of  the  under- 
ground section  of  the  Communist  Party  in  the  United  S'tates. 

"The  committee  has  the  passport,  a  fraudulent  passport,  by  the  way,  on  which 
he  traveled  to  the  Soviet  Union  on  October  7,  1931,  under  the  name  of  Isadore 
Boorstein.  When  and  if  we  can  obtain  Mr.  Peters  and  have  him  before  the 
conunittee  we  will  go  into  great  detail  concerning  his  activities.     *     *     * 

"Mr.  Stkipi.ixg.  Can  yoti  tell  the  committee- whether  your  investigation  dis- 
closed whether  or  not  Peters  was,  or  Alexander  Stevens  was.  very  successful  in 
raising  funds  among  various  peop'e  in  the  motion-picture  industry  when  he  was 
out  there  in  behalf  of  Earl  Browder? 

"Mr.  Russell.  Yv'ell,  the  donations  that  I  know  about  are  those  received  from 
Louise  Bransten  and  Ruth  Wilson.  However,  it  is  known  that  Bransten — or,  that 
Stevens,  or  Peters,  as  he  is  known,  visited  a  bank  with  Herbert  Biberman  and  that 
Biberman  entered  a  safety  deposit  box  in  the  bank.  However,  I  can't  state 
whether  or  not  he  got  money  from  the  bf)X. 

"Mr.  Stripling.  He  did  enter  the  bank  with  Peters? 

"Mr.  Russell.  That  is  right"  ( pp.  r)17-510.  Hearings  Before  the  Committee  on 
Un-American  Activities,  House  of  Representatives,  Regarding  the  Communist 
Infiltration  of  the  Motion-Picture  Industry). 

On  February  6,  1947,  Mr.  Louis  F.  Budenz  submitted  the  following  testimony 
before  the  Conunittee  on  Un-American  Activities: 

"You  can  understand  then  that  Mr.  Berger-P^isler's  power,  in  part,  is  the  fact 
that  he  is  the  receptacle  of  the  line  and  of  the  orders  as  they  come  from  Moscow. 

"But  there  are  others.  J.  V.  Peters.  I  would  like  to  mention  that  gentleman 
because  he  will  undoubtedly  appear  again.  J.  V.  Peters,  known  as  Roberts,  known 
as  Steve;  in  fact,  having  so  many  different  names  that,  as  I  say.  he  made  me 
dizzy  trying  to  keep  track  of  them,  he  also  was  part  of  this  apparatus"  (p.  46, 
Hearings  Before  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  on  Gerhart  Eisler, 
Investigation  of  Un-American  Propaganda  Activities  in  the  United  States). 

On  November  22.  1946,  ^Ir.  Louis  F.  Budenz  testified  before  the  Committee  on 
Un-American  Activities,  in  part :  "there  was  a  Peters — the  last  man  changed  his 
name  so  much  tliat  it  kept  me  busy  trying  to  remember  what  the  name  was. 

"I  was  frequently  embairassed  as  to  what  I  was  to  call  him — J.  V.  Peters, 
Ja  -k  Roberts,  or  whatever  the  new  name  might  be.     *     *     * 

"Now,  as  a  matter  of  fact,  the  Peters  mentioned  had  written  a  pamphlet  for 
the  Communist  Party  long  ago  under  the  name  of  J.  V.  Peters,  and  that  places 
him.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  it  was  Peters  who  introduced  me  to  the  idea  of  the 
conspiratorial  apparatus  of  the  Communist  Party.  He  is  a  plea.sant  man,  too, 
so  far  as  that  goes.  He  told  me  that  the  Communist  Party  is  like  a  submerged 
submarine ;  the  part  that  you  see  above  water  is  the  periscope,  but  the  part 
underneath  is  the  real  Communist  organization ;  that  is  the  conspiratorial  ap- 
paratus" (pp.  13,  14,  RevLsed  Hearings  Before  the  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities,  Investigation  of  Un-American  Propaganda  Activities  in  the  United 
States). 


622  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

The  Daily  Worker  of  ^lay  27,  1929,  pages  1  and  5,  refers  to  J.  Peter  as  follows : 
"Unreserved  acceptance  of  the  decisions  contained  in  the  Comintern,  letter 
is  pledged  in  the  resolutions  adopted  by  the  Hungarian  Bureau  of  the  Commu- 
nist I'arty  at  its  meeting.  Thursday,  May  23,  and  sent  to  the  Central  Committee 
of  tlie  party  through  J.  Peter,  secretary." 

The  Daily  Worker  of  May  24,  1929,  page  1,  carried  the  following  statement 
of  J.  Peter : 

"From  Hungarian  Bureau  Secretary. 

"I  fully  and  unreservedly  endorse  and  accept  the  Comintern  letter  and  the 
Polcom's  unanimous  decisions.  I  pledge  my  full  supiwrt  to  the  Central  Commit- 
tee tightiug  against  all  factionalism,  for  building  the  mass  Communist  Party 
in  the  United  States.  I  will  do  all  in  my  power  to  mobilize  members  to  sup- 
poi-t  the  Comintern  letter  and  the  unanimous  decisions  of  the  Central  Committee." 

"J.  Peter, 
"Hungarian  Bureau,  Communist  Party." 

J.  I'eter  contributed  articles  to  the  Daily  Worker  on  October  10,  193.'>,  and 
October  11,  1933. 

J.  I'eters  contributed  articles  to  the  Daily  Worker  on  May  30  and  31,  1933. 

STEVE   MILLER 

Steve  INIiller  is  mentioned  as  a  speaker  at  special  meetings  held  during  the 
week  of  April  9,  1940,  on  The  Struggle  for  Peace  and  Building  the  Communist 
Party.  According  to  the  Daily  Worker  of  April  9,  1946,  these  meetings  were 
arranged  by  the  New  York  County  of  the  Conmiunist  Party. 

According  to  a  confidential  report  in  our  files.  Steve  INIiller  was  a  delegate  to 
the  New  York  State  .special  convention  of  the  Communist  Political  Association 
held  on  August  10.  11,  and  12,  1945. 

Ml".  MuNDT.  The  hearing  will  stand  in  recess  until  tomorrow  morn- 
ing at  10 :  30,  at  which  time  we  will  hear  Alger  Hiss. 

(Whereupon,  at  12 :  40  p.  m.,  the  committee  recessed  until  10 :  30 
a.  m.,  Thursday,  August  5,  1948.) 


i 


HEARINGS  REGARDING  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  IK 
THE  UNITED  STATES  GOVERNMENT       • 


I 


THURSDAY,   AUGUST   5,    1948 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 
Committee  on  Un-American  Activities, 

Washington^  D.  C. 

The  committee  met.  pursuant  to  notice,  at  10 :  30  a.  m.,  in  the  caucus- 
room,  Old  House  Office  Buildinti:,  Hon.  Karl  E.  Mundt  presiding. 

Committee  members  present :  Representatives  Karl  E.  JNIundt,  John 
]\IcDoAvell,  Richard  M.  Nixon,  John  E.  Rankin,  and  F.  Edward 
Hebert. 

Staff  members  present:  Robert  E.  Stripling,  chief  investigator ;^ 
Louis  J.  Russell,  William  A.  Wheeler,  and  Robert  B.  Gaston,  investi- 
gators, and  A.  S.  Poore,  editor,  for  the  committee. 

Mr.  Mundt.  The  committee  will  come  to  order,  please. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Mr.  Chairman,  before  starting,  I  have  a  request  1 
want  to  make.  It  has  been  testified  that  a  large  number  of  these  indi- 
viduals who  are  charged  with  being  Communist  spies  were  working 
in  the  Department  of  Commerce  during  the  time  that  Henry  A. 
Wallace  was  Secretary  of  that  Department. 

Since  these  individuals  were  evidently  appointed  by  him,  I  suggest 
that  Henry  A.  Wallace  be  subpenaed  to  come  before  the  committee 
and  tell  us  why  these  Communists  who  were  plotting  the  overthrow  of 
the  Government  were  placed  in  key  positions  in  his  Department  at 
a  time  when  our  j^oung  men  were  fighting  and  dying  on  every  battle 
front  in  the  world  for  the  protection  of  this  country. 

Mr.  jNIundt.  The  Chair  will  say  the  conmiittee  is  going  to  have  an 
(xecutive  session  this  afternoon  and  that  request  will  be  considered  at 
that  time. 

Mr.  McDowell  has  a  statement  to  make. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Mr.  Chairman 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  would  like  to  submit  this  for  the  record. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  received  this  morning  a  telephone 
call  from  a  conscience-stricken  employee  of  the  Government,  discuss- 
ing in  some  detail  the  transfer  of  American  currency  plates  to  the 
Soviet  Government.  It  is  well  known  to  many  that  that  cost,  in  the 
occupation  zones  over  there,  the  United  States  Government  many 
millions  of  dollars. 

Since  I  received  the  call  I  have  been  thinking  over  a  number  of 
things,  and  I  think  I  should  state  this  at  this  time  publicly — that  I 
have  been  a  member  of  a  special  subcommittee  that  was  appointed 
sometime  ago  by  the  chairman  of  the  full  Connnittee  on  Un-American 
Activities.  This  committee  has  been  sitting  in  executive  session  for 
Fome  time. 

623 


624  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

The  committee,  I  feel,  was  appointed  without  even  tlie  knowledge 
of  some  of  the  members  of  the  C'onnnittee  on  Un-American  Activities. 
We  have  been  taking  testimony  on  many  things  leading  up  to  the 
j>resent  hearings  today. 

As  the  widespread  ramifications  of  this  intense  espionage  ring- 
begin  to  unfold  here,  1  feel  that  .the  American  people  should  know 
what  is  coming  to  be  well  known  to  all  who  observe  the  situation^ — 
that  we  most  certainly  won  the  war  and  are  most  rapidly  losing 
the  ])eace. 

I  have  left  my  home  in  Pittsburgh  a  number  of  times  to  rush  down 
here  and  take  testimony.  Among  other  things  that  I  will  reveal 
now  is  that  at  the  very  height  of  atomic  research  in  194:3,  at  the  most 
desperate  part  of  the  American  war  effort,  there  were  two  shi})ments 
of  uranium  compound,  the  most  substantial  element  of  atomic  energ-y, 
made  to  Russia  after  tremendous  pressure  on  all  j^hases  of  the  Ameri- 
can Government  on  the  part  of  Russian  agents,  some  of  them  known 
and  acknowledged  as  Russian  agents  and  others  who  had  established 
themselves  by  surreptitious  methods  in  the  American  Government. 

These  shipments  were  made  from  a  small,  obscure  airfield  in  the 
United  States,  the.  first  one  of  o()()  ]:)ounds  and  the  second  of  1,000 
pounds. 

We  have  established  almost  beyond  question  that  a  shipment  of 
heavy  water  was  sent  to  Russia,  under  ]:)ressure  ]:)artly  from  legitimate 
and  legal  sources  and  partly  from  the  pressure  exerted  by  members 
of  this  ring,  whether  they  were  known  or  unknown  members  of  the 
ring.     We  know  that  a  factory  was  flown  entirely  to  Russia. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Will  the  gentleman  yield? 

Mr.  McDowell.  Yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  The  gentleman  says  these  plates  for  the  printing  of 
American  money  were  sent  to  Russia.  Were  those  Federal  Reserve 
plates?  And  what  was  being  printed — was  it  Federal  Reserve  notes 
being  printed  over  there? 

Mr.  McDowell.  I  am  unable  to  answer  the  gentleman's  question 
other  than  they  were  currency  plates  from  the  United  States  Depart- 
ment of  the  Treasury. 

Mr.  Rankin.  We  have  that  bill  before  the  House  today,  to  amend 
the  Federal  Reserve  Act.  It  seems  to  me  that  this  is  a  very  vital 
question.  If  they  have  been  printing  Federal  Reserve  money  and 
making  it  legal  tender  at  the  expense  of  the  United  States,  I  think  it 
ouffht  to  be  brought  out  on  the  floor. 

Mr.  McDowell.  The  gentleman  from  Mississi])pi  has  noted  this 
morning  that  the  Commerce  Department  was  heavily  infiltrated  by 
these  people — the  story  is  beginning  to  be  unfolded  here — and  this  is 
only  the  beginning  of  the  story.  It  might  be  well  to  point  out  to  the 
gentleman  from  Mississippi  and  all  the  rest  of  the  members  of  this 
committee  that  we  have  discovered  that  the  infiltration  is  also  deep  in 
the  State  Department,  deep  in  the  Department  of  the  Treasury,  deep 
in  the  War  Production  Board,  deep  even  in  the  OSS  of  the  United 
States  Army  during  the  hostilities. 

Mr.  Rankin.  How  about  the  last  two  political  conventions? 

Mr.  McDowell.  I  W'ould  like  to  say  that  in  the  testimony  that  has 
been  taken  in  executive  session,  some  of  the  highest  and  most  beloved 
and  most  honored  citizens  of  the  United  States  have  appeared  and 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  625 

gladly  testified  to  the  activities  that  they  knew  about  and  were  willing 
to  give  their  Government  at  this  period. 

That  is  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Stripling,  who  is  your  first  witness  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  would  like  to  call  Congressman  Busbey,  of  Illinois, 
for  the  purpose  of  putting  into  the  record  a  letter  which  he  received 
from  the  Commissioner  of  Civil  Service,  Mr.  Flemming.  It  relates 
directly  to  the  Silvermuster  matter,  and  I  think  it  is  pertinent  to  be  in 
the  record. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Is  Congressman  Busbey  in  the  room  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes. 

Mr.  Eankin.  I  would  like  the  record  to  show  that  Representative 
Busbey  was  an  honored  and  very  effective  and  very  valuable  member 
of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  when  Mr.  Dies,  of  Texas, 
was  chairman. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Will  you  stand  and  be  sworn,  Mr.  Busbey? 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  the  testimony  you  are  about  to  give  will  be 
the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Busbey.  I  do. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  may  be  seated. 

TESTIMONY  OF  HON.  FRED  E.  BUSBEY,  A  REPRESENTATIVE  IN 
CONGRESS  FROM  THE  STATE  OF  ILLINOIS 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Busbey,  will  you  give  your  full  name,  please. 

Mr.  Busbey.  Fred  E.  Busbey. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  are  a  Representative  in  Congi-ess  from  the  State 
of  Illinois? 

Mr.  Busbey.  Representing  the  Third  District  in  the  Eightieth  Con- 
gress. 

Mr.  Stripling.  ]\Ir.  Busbey,  in  connection  with  your  official  duties 
as  a  Member  of  the  House,  did  you  investigate,  last  year,  the  activities 
of  Nathan  Gregory  Silvei  master  while  he  was  employed  in  the  Federal 
Government  ? 

Mr.  Busbey.  I  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  give  the  committee  any  information  at 
this  time  which  would  be  jjertinent  to  the  inquiry  uncler  consideration. 

Mr.  Busbey.  I  think,  Mr.  Stripling,  I  should  state  at  the  beginning 
that  I  have  been  interested  in  running  down  subversive  activities  in 
the  United  States  ever  since  1921. 

I  was  a  member  of  the  Seventy-eighth  Congress ;  I  was  not  reelected 
for  the  Seventy-ninth  Congress,  and  I  was  elected  for  the  Eightieth 
Congress. 

One  of  the  first  things  I  did,  upon  being  sworn  in  as  a  ^Member  of 
the  Eightieth  Congress  was  to  write  Mr.  Arthur  Flemming,  one  of 
the  Commissioners  of  the  United  States  Civil  Service  Commission,  a 
letter  regarding  Carl  A.  Marzani  and  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster. 

If  the  committee  will  permit,  I  have  dictated  a  memorandum  lead- 
ing up  to  these  letters  that  I  would  like  to  read  as  I  go  along  and 
then  put  the  letters  into  the  record. 

INIr.  Stripling.  Is  that  agreeable  to  the  chairman? 

Mr.  MuNDT.  That  is  perfectly  all  right. 

80408—48 9 


626  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  BusBEY.  Mr.  Chairman,  the  people  of  the  United  States  are 
wondering-  just  how  far  the  Communists  have  infiltrated  into  highly 
confidential  Government  positions.  For  the  past  several  days  we  have 
listened  to  and  read  with  amazement  the  stories  related  by  former 
Communist  functionaries.  One  in  particular  spent  the  war  years  in 
getting  secret  information  to  be  sent  to  a  foreign  government.  While 
we  are  at  a  loss  to  understand  why  an  American  would  furnish  military 
or  otherwise  confidential  information  to  the  agent  of  a  foreign  gov- 
ernment, we  should  be  more  concerned  as  t  o  how  persons  of  such  weak 
character  were  placed  in  Government  positions. 

I  have  given  considerable  thought  and  study  to  this  question,  and 
the  only  conclusion  I  have  been  able  to  reach  is  that  the  fault  lies 
squarely  on  the  shoulders  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission.  What 
caused  me  to  reach  such  a  conclusion  ? 

To  begin  with,  the  Civil  Service  Commission  is  the  employing  agency 
for  the  Federal  Government.  One  of  its  duties  is  to  determine  the 
fitness  and  suitaliility  of  those  persons  seeking  Government  employ- 
ment. Loyalty  to  our  form  of  government  was  generally  presumed, 
but  in  the  early  day  of  the  preparedness  program  the  Civil  Service 
Commission  no  longer  presumed  applicants  for  Government  posi- 
tions to  be  loyal.  On  May  29,  lOlO,  the  Commission  issued  the  follow- 
ing press  release : 

The  United  States  Civil  Service  Commission  has  decided  officially  that  as  a 
matter  of  policy  it  will  not  certify  to  any  department  or  agency  the  name  of  any 
person  Avhen  it  has  heen  established  that  he  is  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party, 
German  Bund,  or  any  other  Communist  or  Nazi  organization. 

A  restatement  of  this  policy  was  made  by  Arthur  Flemming,  a 
member  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission,  on  December  12,  1940,  when 
he  testified  before  a  subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Appropriations, 
House  of  Representatives,  Seventy-seventh  Congress.  5lr.  Flemming 
said: 

In  connection  with  all  our  investigations,  we  are  keeping  this  policy  in  mind : 
If  we  find  anybody  has  had  any  associations  with  the  Communists  or  the  German 
Bund,  or  any  other  foreign  organization  of  that  kind,  that  person  is  disqualified 
immediately.     All  doubts  are  being  resolved  in  favor  of  the  Government. 

Now,  gentlemen,  let  me  impress  that  one  sentence  on  you.  That 
is  a  statemeiit  by  Mr.  Flemming  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission  on 
December  12  before  the  Appropriations  Committee : 

All  doubts  are  being  resolved  in  favor  of  the  Government. 

On  September  7, 1941,  Hon.  Martin  Dies,  chairman  of  the  Committee 
on  Un-American  Activities,  House  of  Representatives,  charged  that 
Leon  Henderson,  Price  Administrator,  had  employed  at  least  50  per- 
sons with  records  of  affiliations  with  Communist  front  organizations. 
Specificall3%  Mr.  Dies  named — I  am  not  going  to  read  this  portion 
to  the  committee,  but  ask  permission  that  it  be  incorporated  at  this 
point  in  the  record.  It  has  to  do  with  one  individual  particularh-, 
a  Tom  Tippett,  and  showed  how  the  committee  did  not  resolve  these 
things  in  favor  of  the  Government. 

(The  material  referred  to  above  is  as  follows :) 

Tom  Tippett,  Assistant  Chief,  Rent  Section,  $o,(iOO  per  annum. 
E.  J.  Lever,  principal  field  representative,  $5,(t00  per  annum. 
Mildred  Brady,  principal  specialist,  $r).(300  per  annum. 
Robert  A.  Brady,  head  consultant,  $7,500 .per  annum. 
Dewey  H.  Palmer,  consultant,  $20  per  day. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  627 

I  do  not  intend  to  enter  into  a  discussion  of  the  Communist  front 
affiliations  of  these  five  persons,  but  I  do  Avant  to  mention  something 
about  Mr.  Tippett.  The  record  shows  Mr.  Tippett  was  a  member 
of  the  National  Executive  Committee  of  the  Conference  for  Pro- 
gressive Labor  Action.  The  letterhead  of  this  organization  carries 
the  following  statement  of  purpose : 

It  aims  to  inspire  the  workers  to  take  control  of  government  and  industry, 
to  abolish  capitalism,  and  to  build  a  workers'  republic. 

In  addition,  Mr.  Tippett  was  among  the  sponsors  of  a  banquet 
given  Ella  Reeve  Bloor,  affectionately  referred  to  by  Connnunists 
as  ''Mother  Bloor."  He  was  a  member  of  the  American  Committee 
for  the  Defense  of  Leon  Trotsky.  He  was  a  staff  writer  for  the 
Comnumist  Daily  Worker.  Together  with  Earl  Browder  and  Wil- 
liam Z.  Foster,  he  w^as  a  speaker  at  a  meeting  of  the  Workers  Party 
in  Chicago  in  1923.  He  was  a  speaker  at  a  meeting  of  the  Com- 
munist Trade  Union  Educational  League  wdiere  he  was  introduced 
by  Foster.  If  not  an  actual  Communist,  Mr.  Tippett  certainly  could 
be  classified  as  having  had  association  with  Connnunists,  who,  accord- 
ing to  Commissioner  Flemming,  were  disqualified  immediately.  Mr. 
Tippett  was  disqualified  by  the  Commission.  But  Mr.  Leon  Hender- 
son interceded  on  behalf  of  Mr.  Tippett  and  the  Civil  Service  Com- 
mission, utterly  disregarding  their  statement  of  policy  to  Congress, 
rated  Mr.  Tippett  eligible.  The  Commission  said  that  Mr.  Tippett 
had  been  indiscreet  and  sometimes  unwise  in  his  associations  and 
utterances. 

From  there  on  the  record  of  similar  actions  by  the  Civil  Service 
Commission  in  permitting  Communists  and  their  fellow  travelers  to 
obtain  important  Government  positions  is  almost  endless  and  con- 
tinues to  the  present  day. 

I  want  to  submit  proof  of  how  the  Communists  and  Communist 
sympathizers  obtain  important  and  confidential  positions.  On  Jan- 
uary 6,  1947,  I  wrote  Mr.  Arthur  S.  Flemming  of  the  Civil  Service 
Commission  asking  for  information  on  two  persons  then  employed 
in  the  Government  service.  They  were  Carl  Aldo  Marzani  and 
Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster.  On  January  8,  1947,  I  received  the 
following  reply : 

United  States  Civil  Service  Commission, 

Washington  25,  D.  C,  January  8,  1947. 
lion.  Fred  E.  Busbey, 

House  of  Representatives,  Washington,  D.  C. 

Dear  Congressman  Busbey  :  Reference  is  made  to  your  letter  of  January  6, 
1947,  regarding  the  recommendations  and  final  action  taken  by  the  Commission 
in  the  cases  of  Carl  A.  Marzani  and  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster. 

In  the  case  of  Carl  A.  Marzani,  ineligibility  was  recommended  by  the  rating 
examiner  of  the  Investigations  Division,  which  recommendation  was  concurred 
in  by  the  reviewer  and  the  chief  of  the  Investigations  Division.  His  case  was 
reviewed  by  two  staff  members  and  the  Executive  Director  and  Chief  Examiner, 
all  of  whom  recommended  ineligibility.  The  Commission  rated  Mr.  Marzani  in- 
eligible, and  from  this  rating,  Mr.  Marzani  appealed  and  was  given  a  hearing 
before  the  Board  of  Appeals  and  Keview,  at  which  time  Messrs.  H.  C.  Barton, 
chief  of  the  Presentation  Division.  Emil  Despres  of  the  Board  of  Analysis,  Pi*of. 
Edward  S.  Mason  of  the  Board  of  Analysis,  and  Maj.  D.  Thompson  of  the  Army 
Service  Forces,  all  of  whom  were  fellow  employees,  with  the  exception  of  Mr. 
H.  C.  Barton,  who  was  the  supervisor  under  whom  Mr.  Marzani  was  employed, 
and  all  of  whom  were  with  the  Office  of  Strategic  Services,  testified  emphatically 
regarding  Mr.  Marzani's  loyalty.  Thereafter,  the  Board  of  Appeals  and  Review 
recommended  eligibilit.v,  and  the  case  was  again  reviewed  by  two  staff  members, 
one  of  whom  recommended   ineligibility  and  the  other  eligibility,  the  eligible 


62  S  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

rating  being  concurred  in  by  the  Executive  Director  and  Cliief  Examiner.     Tlie 
Commission  tlien  rated  Mr.  Marzani  eligible. 

Additional  information  regarding  Mr.  Marzani  has  recently  come  to  light, 
and  the  entire  file  regarding  Mr.  INIarzani  was  referred  to  the  Department  of 
Justice  for  tlieir  consideration.  Subsequent  to  the  receipt  of  your  letter  of 
January  6,  1947,  a  conference  was  held  with  the  Department  of  Justice  regarding 
Mr.  Marzani's  case,  at  which  time  the  Department  of  Justice  expressed  the 
desire  that  any  information  whatsoever  regarding  him  be  lield  in  strict  confidence. 

That  concludes  the  part  of  the  letter  in  reference  to  Carl  A.  Marzani. 
I  would  like  to  say  in  that  connection  that  ^Ir.  Flemming  delivered  this 
letter  to  me  at  my  office  in  person  and  we  had  a  discussion  of  this 
Marzani  case  and  the  Silvermaster  case  for  an  hour  and  a  half. 

Mr.  Eankin.  What  is  the  date  of  that  letter? 

Mr,  BusBF.Y.  January  8,  1947.  Mr.  Flemming  pleaded  with  me  not 
to  expose  the  information  I  had  at  that  time  on  Mr.  Marzani,  and  he 
also  stated  that  if  I  did  not  expose  it,  that  he  was  almost  certain  they 
could  bring  about  an  indictment  of  Mr.  Marzani. 

I  served  what  was  in  effect  an  ultimatum  on  Mr.  Flemming  that  I 
would  give  them  exactl}^  14  days  to  indict  Mr.  Marzani.  Twelve  days 
after  this  conference  Mr.  Marzani  was  indicted  and,  as  you  know, 
was  convicted.  Unfortunately,  he  was  only  convicted  for  falsifying 
his  statements  to  the  State  Department  and  not  convicted  for  his  Com- 
munist activities,  because  notwithstanding  the  fact  this  letter  was 
1947,  the  Civil  Service  Commission  had  a  record  of  Mr.  Marzani  in 
their  files  as  far  back  as  1942  after  his  Communist  affiliations  were 
known  and  under  his  Connnunist  Party  name  of  Tony  Wales. 

Reading  further  from  the  letter : 

With  regard  to  the  case  of  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster,  this  case  first  came  to 
the  attention  of  the  Commission  when  the  Board  of  Economic  Warfare  requested 
his  transfer  from  the  Department  of  Agriculture.  While  Mr.  Silvermaster  had 
been  in  the  Federal  service  since  1935,  he  held  excepted  positions  and  was  not 
under  the  Commission's  jurisdiction.  The  rating  examiner  of  the  Investigations 
Division  recommended  ineligibity,  which  recommendation  was  concurred  in  by 
the  reviewer  and  the  Chief  of  the  Investigations  Division.  Two  staff  members 
reviewed  the  file  and  concurred  in  the  recommendation  of  ineligibility.  The 
Executive  Director  and  Chief  Examiner  likewise  recommended  ineligibility.  At 
this  point,  further  investigation  was  decided  iipon.  Before  this  was  completed, 
the  Board  of  Economic  Warfare  advised  the  Commission  that  they  were  no  longer 
interested  in  Mr.  Silvermaster,  and  the  investigation  was  discontinued  because 
we  no  longer  had  jurisdiction. 

Mr.  Silvermaster's  case  again  came  to  the  attention  of  the  Commission  when 
the  Procurement  Division  of  the  Treasury  Department  requested  his  transfer 
I'rom  the  Department  of  Agriculture.  The  case  was  referred  to  the  Loyalty 
Rating  Board  for  consideration.  The  Loyalty  Rating  Board  requested  further 
investigation.  Upon  review  of  this  case,  the  Loyalty  Rating  Board  examiner 
recommended  ineligibility,  and  the  Loyalty  Ratina  Board  concurred  in  the 
reconunendatiou  of  ineligibility. 

The  Commission,  in  reviewing  this  case,  relied  chiefly  upon  the  testimony  con- 
tained in  the  files  of  the  Military  Intelligence  Division,  which  revealed  that  the 
then  Under  Secretary  of  Wai'.  .Indue  Robert  P.  Patterson,  on  July  3,  1942,  wrote 
to  the  Honorable  Milo  INn-kins,  P>oard  of  Ectinomic  Warfare,  Washington,  D.  C, 
to  the  effect  that  "I  have  personallv  made  an  examination  of  the  case  and  have 
discussed  it  with  Major  Gen.  G.  V.  Strong,  G-2.  I  am  fully  satisfied  that  the 
facts  do  not  sliow  anything  derogatoi-y  to  Mr.  Silvermaster's  character  or  loyalty 
to  the  United  States,  and  that  the  charges  in  the  report  of  June  3  are  unfounded." 
The  Commission  relied  on  the  further  fact  that  on  July  1,  1944,  the  President's 
Interdepartmental  Connnittee  advised  the  Department  of  Agriculture  as  follows: 
"It  is  the  opinion  of  the  Committee  that  the  record  as  submitted  does  not  con- 
tain sufficient  infoi-niation  to  warrant  charges  pursuant  to  the  statutes  which 
prohibit  the  retention  in  Government  sei'vice  of  a  person  who  is  a  member  of  an 
organization  which  advocates  the  overthrow  of  the  Government  of  the  United 
States  by  force  or  violence,  or  wlio  personally  so  advocates." 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  629 

The  Commission  rated  Mr.  Silvermaster  eligible  for  transfer  to  the  Treasury 
Department. 

Prior  to  tlie  date  of  your  letter  of  January  6,  1947.  the  Commission  authorized 
the  review  of  borderline  cases  in  order  that  they  may  be  i-eviewed  in  the  light  of 
present-day  standards.  The  Silvermaster  ease  was  included  among  those  to  be 
reviewed.  Upon  review,  the  Commission  will  inform  you  of  any  action  it  may 
decide  to  take. 

Very  sincerely  yours, 

Arthur  S.  Flemming, 

Commissioner. 

Later  I  received  a  letter  dated  February  24,  1947,  in  which  Mr. 
Flemming  stated,  and  I  read  his  letter : 

Dear  Mr.  Busbey  :  In  a  previous  communication  addressed  to  you  I  indicated 
that  the  Commission  was  reviewing  the  case  of  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster  and 
that  I  would  provide  you  witli  a  report  of  the  action  taken  as  a  result  of  this 
review. 

A  majority  of  tlie  Commission  has  decided  tliat  inasmuch  as  Mi\  Silvermaster 
is  no  longer  in  the  Government  service,  it  is  not  now  necessary  for  the  Commis- 
sion to  reconsider  its  previous  action,  but  that  his  name  should  be  flagged  so  that 
if  he  does  come  into  the  Government  service  again,  the  qiiestion  of  his  suitability 
can  be  given  further  consideration. 

Tlie  minutes  of  the  Connnission  will  show  that  I  dissent  from  this  action  on 
the  ground  that  he  should  in  my  judgment  be  barred  at  this  time  for  an  indefinite 
period  from  Federal  employment. 
Very  sincerely  yours, 

Arthtje  S.  Flemming, 

Comrnissioner. 

I  want  to  call  attention  to  one  especially  significant  part  of  Mr. 
Flemming's  letter  of  January  8, 1947.  He  said  that  the  examiner  on  the 
Loyalty  Rating  Board  and  the  Loyalty  Rating  Board  itself  recom- 
mended ineligibility  but  that  the  Civil  Service  Commission  in  holding 
that  Silverma.ster  was  qualified  for  Government  employment  on  the 
question  of  loyalty  relied  chiefly  on  the  recommendation  of  the  Under 
Secretary  of  War,  Robert  P.  Patterson,  and  further  relied  on  the 
opinion  of  the  Interdei^artmental  Committee.  Mr.  Flemming  did  not 
advise  me  that  he  knew  the  basis  for  Secretary  Patterson's  recom- 
mendation or  the  opinion  of  the  Interdepartmental  Committee.  There- 
fore, I  am  bound  to  conclude  that  he  did  not  know  why  such  favorable 
recommendations  were  made.  This  case  is  proof  of  the  fact  that  the 
Civil  Service  Commission  ignored  the  recommendations  of  its  quali- 
fied personnel  and  succumbed  to  the  whims  and  wishes  of  those  of 
higher  authority. 

Before  I  leave  Mr.  Flemming's  letter  of  January  8,  1947,  I  want 
to  call  attention  to  one  thing  that  seems  to  me  is  the  key  to  the  question 
as  to  how  persons  of  questionable  loyalty  secured  Government  posi- 
tions. Mr.  Flemming  says  that  the  Commission  authorized  the  review 
of  border-line  cases  in  the  light  of  present-day  standards. 

As  I  stated  earlier,  ]Mr.  Flemming  told  Congress  on  December  12, 
1940,  that  the  policy  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission  was  to  resolve 
all  doubts  in  favor  of  the  Government. 

I  will  leave  it  to  the  committee  after  the  testimony  they  have 
already  heard  from  witnesses  as  to  whether  that  was  a  true  statement 
or  not. 

Several  years  later  when  questioned  before  the  same  subcommittee 
as  to  this  statement  of  policy,  Mr.  Flemming  stated  that  it  was  still 
in  effect.  If  the  rule  in  1940^  and  1943  was  to  disqualify  immediately 
all  persons  who  had  any  association  with  Communists  or  the  German 


630  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Bund,  Mr.  Flemming  should  be  called  upon  to  say  when  the  rule  was 
changed  and  why. 

Referring  now  to  Mr.  Flemming's  letter  of  February  24,  1947.  It  is 
most  interesting.  He  says  that  inasmuch  as  Mv.  Silvermaster  is  no 
longer  in  the  Government  service  it  would  not  be  necessary  for  the 
Commission  to  reconsider  its  previous  action  but  a  majority  of  the 
Commissioners  agreed  to  flag  Mr.  Silvermaster — in  the  event  he  does 
enter  the  Government  service  again  his  case  will  be  given  further 
consideration. 

Mr.  Flemming  called  my  attention  to  the  fact  that  he  dissented 
with  the  majority  as  he  thought  Mr.  Silvermaster  should  be  barred 
from  further  Government  employment  for  an  indefinite  period. 

What  I  would  like  to  know  is  when  Mr.  Flemming  changed  his  mind. 
He  should  be  called  before  this  committee  and  asked  to  explain  why 
he  agreed  that  Silvermaster  was  suitable  for  Government  employment 
one  day  and  of  the  opinion  he  should  be  barred  indefinitely  another 
day,  all  on  the  same  record.  Is  not  this  ample  evidence  of  the  incon- 
sistency of  the  actions  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission  and  does  it  not 
show  tiiat  the  Civil  Service  Commission  is  not  the  proper  Government 
agency  to  administer  a  loyalty  prosram? 

If  the  records  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission  were  made  available 
to  a  committee  of  Congress  we  would  learn  how  the  Tippetts,  the 
Thomas  I.  Emersons,  the  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermasters,  the  Jose- 
jjhine  Herbsts,  the  Donald  Wheelers,  the  Carl  Marzanis,  the  Michael 
Greenbergs,  and  hundred  of  such  ilk  were  approved  for  Government 
employment. 

I  might  say  that  on  November  29  and  December  2  of  1943  I  made 
two  speeches  on  this  very  subject  on  the  floor  of  the  House,  which 
were  responsible  for  my  being  asked  to  go  on  the  Committee  on  Un- 
American  Activities  at  that  time,  and  the  information  was  denied 
us  on  some  hundred-odd  employees  we  had  under  consideration  at 
the  time.  We  were  denied  access  to  such  information.  The  Civil 
Service  Commission  does  not  want  such  record  exposed  to  the  light  of 
publicity.  They  do  not  want  it  to  become  known  how  totally  unquali- 
fied they  were  to  administer  an  adequate  loyalty  program.  One  of  the 
most  outstanding  examples  of  the  ability  of  the  Communists  to  en- 
sconce themselves  in  highly  confidential  Government  positions  is  the 
case  of  Carl  Aldo  Marzani.  The  Civil  Service  Commission  knew 
that  Marzani  had  been  an  organizer  for  the  Communist  Party  on 
New  York  City's  East  Side ;  they  knew  he  had  signed  and  circulated 
Communist  Party  nominating  petitions  and  in  fact  they  had  all  the 
information  that  was  later  introduced  in  the  trial  of  Marzani.  Yet  the 
Civil  Service  Commission  put  its  stamp  of  approval  on  Marzani. 
This,  in  my  opinion,  is  the  grossest  kind  of  malfeasance  and  the  per- 
sons who  ignored  the  evidence  and  recommended  and  rated  Marzani 
eligible  should  be  indicted. 

The  record  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission  reveals  all  too  plainly 
that  they  placed  incompetent  and  unqualified  persons  in  positions 
that  enabled  them  to  nullify  the  outstanding  work  of  a  corps  of  able 
investigators. 

On  November  29,  1943,  from  the  floor  of  the  House  I  revealed  the 
instructions  issued  by  the  Civil  Service  Commission  to  its  investi- 
gators.   Those  instructions  had  the  effect  of  hamstringing  the  loyalty 


I 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  631 

inquiries.  I  later  learned  that  these  instructions  were  prepared  by 
Alfred  Klein,  the  chief  attorney  for  the  Civil  Service  Commission. 

JNIr.  Hebert.  Mr.  Chairman,  will  Mr.  Busbey  yield  and  allow  me 
to  ask  a  question  in  order  to  identify  the  member  of  the  Civil  Service 
Commission'^ 

Mv.  Busbey,  Yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Was  he  a  Republican  or  a  Democrat  ? 

Mr.  Busbey.  I  am  very  sorry  to  say  he  is  supposed  to  be  a  Re- 
publican appointee  on  the  Civil  Service  Commission,  but  in  my  judg- 
ment, in  view  of  his  record,  I  have  never  recognized  him  as  such. 
[Laughter.] 

Mr,  Hebert.  But  he  was  the  Republican  member  of  the  Commis- 
sion ? 

Mr.  Busbey.  Well,  the  Republican  Party  had  nothing  to  do  with 
recommending  or  sponsoring  or  O.  K.'ing  Mr,  Flemming's  appoint- 
ment to  the  Commission,  It  was  done  on  the  absolute  authority  of  the 
President  of  the  United  States  at  that  time,  Franklin  Delano  Roose- 
velt, without  consulting  anyone,  and  Mr,  Roosevelt  picked  him  up  as  a 
Republican. 

Sir.  Hebert,  Of  course,  Mr.  Busbey,  we  southerners  have  much 
sympathy  with  such  problems  as  you  Republicans  have. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Governor  Dewey  was  appointed  by  a  Democratic 
mayor  of  New  York,  you  will  remember. 

Mr,  Bi^sBEY,  Mr,  Chairman,  I  would  like  permission  of  the  chair- 
man to  allow  me  to  incorporate  into  the  record  at  this  point  the 
entire  instructions  to  the  investigators  of  the  Civil  Service  Commis- 
sion, released  on  November  3,  1943.  I  do  not  want  to  take  the  time 
of  the  committee  to  read  the  entire  document  but  there  are  just  one 
or  two  paragraphs  of  instructions  that  I  think  are  very  pertinent  to 
what  vou  are  investigating. 

Instruction  No.  3  says : 

Do  not  ask  any  question  whatever  involving* the  applicant's  sympathy  with 
Loyalists  in  Spain.  This  means  that  the  investigator  should  avoid  not  only 
asking  about  the  applicant's  sympathy  with  the  Spanish  War,  but  no  reference 
should  be  made  to  any  such  organizations  as  the  Abraham  Lincoln  Brigade  or 
any  other  of  the  many  Spanish  relief  groups.  The  whole  matter  of  the  war  in 
Spain  should  be  scrupulously  avoided  by  the  investigator  as  having  any  bearing 
on  procommunism. 

Now,  anybody  that  knows  anything  about  the  Spanish  situation 
knows  that  the  Loyalists  in  Spain  and  the  Abraham  Lincoln  Brigade 
were  definitely  100-percent  Communist  outfits.  The  Veterans  of  the 
Abraham  Lincoln  Brigade  has  been  on  the  list  of  Attorney  General 
Tom  Clark  as  one  of  the  Communist-front  organizations. 

I  may  say  in  passing  that  while  this  instruction  3  on  this  instruc- 
tion sheet  refers  to  the  Abraham  Lincoln  Brigade,  on  Tom  Clark's 
list  it  appears  as  Veterans  of  the  Abraham  Lincoln  Brigade.  The 
reason  it  appears  as  Veterans  of  the  Abraham  Lincoln  Brigade  is  that 
those  who  are  not  veterans  didn't  come  back. 

No.  4  reads : 

Do  not  ask  any  quest  lop  about  membership  in  the  Washington  Book  Sliop  or 
any  book  shop  in  any  city  similai"  to  the  Washington  Book  Shop. 

Now,  mind  you,  gentlemen,  these  are  the  instructions  of  the  Com- 
mission to  those  investigators  that  prohibited  them  from  finding  out 


632  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGP] 

anything  about  any  Communist  activities  of  anyone  they  were  in- 
vestigating. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Will  the  gentleman  yield? 

Mr,  BusBEY.  Yes. 

Mr.  Rankin.  The  same  rule  applies  under  the  FEPC  in  the  State 
of  New  York.  You  can't  ask  a  man  those  questions.  A  man  who  is 
employing  employees  under  the  law  of  that  State  can't  ask  a  man 
Avhere  he  is  from  or  what  his  name  was  before  it  was  changed  or  what 
organizations  he  belongs  to.     This  is  following  in  the  wake  of  that. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  may  proceed. 

Mr.  BusBEY.  Instruction  No.  5  reads : 

In  asking  an  applicant  whether  he  knows  a  certain  individual,  that  individual 
should  not  be  characterized  in  any  way  so  as  to  show  the  individual's  views 
or  leanings.  For  illustration,  an  applicant  should  not  be  asked  :  "Do  you  know 
Jolni  Jones,  reputed  to  be  a  Communist?"  Tlie  question,  if  at  all  necessary, 
should  be :  "Do  you  know  John  Jones,  and  what  has  been  the  nature  of  your 
association  with  him?" 

Rule  6  reads : 

Do  not  ask  a  husband,  who  is  an  applicant,  questions  about  his  wife  and  do 
not  ask  a  wife,  who  is  an  applicant,  questions  about  her  husband.  Ask  the 
applicant  only  as  to  matters  liaving  to  do  with  himself  but  not  with  members 
of  his  family  or  others. 

I  am  going  to  show  you  in  just  a  moment  where  that  is  essential 
because  there  is  a  certain  person  in  a  key  position  in  this  Government 
whose  wife  has  been  a  Iniown  Communist  out  in  the  open  for  many 
years. 

Mr.  Rankin.  That  same  regulation  is  written  into  the  FEPC  law 
in  New  York. 

Mr.  McDowell.  What  is  the  difference? 

Mr.  Rankin.  It  is  just  this:  The  Communists  seem  to  have  got 
their  hands  in  this  FEPC  in  the  State  of  New  York  and  all  over  the 
country  and  it  is  just  the  same  old  pattern.  They  have  written  those 
regulations,  just  exactly  what  the  gentleman  from  Illinois  has  read 
there.  They  have  written  the  same  regulations  into  the  law  of  the 
State  of  New  York,  which  was  signed  by  Mr.  Dewey  with  22  pens. 

Mr.  BusBEY.  Skipping  down  to  instruction  8 : 

In  speaking  to  the  applicant  or  to  a  witness,  do  not  characterize  an  organiza- 
tion as  communistic  or  Fascist.  Do  not  characterize  it  at  all.  Do  not  say,  "We 
have  information  that  you  have  been  active  in  the  Intei-national  Labor  Defense,  a 
Communist  organization."  Say,  rather:  "We  have  information  that  you  have 
been  connected  with  the  International  Labor  Defense.  Have  you  been  asso- 
ciated with  this  organization  ard  what  has  been  the  nature  of  such  as.sociation?" 

I  will  read  just  one  more  instruction,  No.  9  : 

Do  not  ask  a  witness  any  question  in  such  form  that  the  witness  may  derive 
information  regarding  the  applicant  which  he  otherwise  would  not  have. 

Just  get  that,  will  you  ?     Just  let  me  read  that  again  : 

Do  not  ask  a  witness  any  question  in  such  form  that  the  witness  may  derive 
infttrmation  regarding  tlie  applicant  which  he  otherwise  would  not  have. 

To  continue  with  the  balance  of  No.  9 : 

Remember  that  your  task  is  to  obtain  information:and  not  give  information. 
Do  not  ask  a  witness  whether  John  Jones,  the  applicant,  is  a  Communist  unless 
you  immediately  follow  with  the  question  whether  John  Jones  is  a  Fascist  or 
pro-Nazi.      The  same  applies  with  respect  to  the  questioning  of  the  applicant 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  633 

Gentlemen  of  the  committee,  I  might  say  that  that  document  is  the 
basis  for  the  Conmuniists  coming  into  the  Government  and  hamstring- 
ing any  investigation.  As  a  result  of  that  investigation  going  out 
to  the  investigators  in  the  field,  practically  all  of  the  good  investigators 
of  the  Civil  Service  Commission  were  so  disgusted  with  having  their 
hands  tied,  men  who  had  been  in  this  field  for  many  years,  they 
quit  the  Commission  and  they  had  nobody  down  there  who  knows 
anything  about  the  subject  of  communism. 

(The  instructions  to  the  regional  directors  follow:) 

United  States  Civil  Service  Commission, 

Washington,  D.  C,  November  3,  1943. 
Regional  Directors: 

The  Manual  of  Instructions  on  Loyalty  Investigations,  which  was  fully  dis- 
cussed with  regional  directors  and  a  copy  of  which  was  placed  in  the  hands  of 
every  regional  director  and  investigator  in  charge  for  the  guidance  of  investi- 
gators, contained  detailed  information  regarding  methods  of  investigation  and 
questions  to  be  avoided.  Previously  definite  instructions  had  been  issued  that  no 
questions  should  be  asked  regarding  union  membership  or  activities.  It  has 
i-ecently  come  to  the  attention  of  the  Commission  that  investigators  have  been 
asking  persons  under  investigation,  and  witnesses,  questions  which  the  Commis- 
sion had  specifically  directed  should  not  be  asked.  In  order  that  such  offenses 
be  not  repeated,  there  is  set  forth  below  a  list  of  the  things  investigators  should 
continually  have  in  mind.  Copies  of  these  instructions  should  be  immediately 
placed  in  the  hands  of  every  investigator. 

1.  Under  no  circumstances  should  any  question  be  asked  of  an  applicant  or 
a  witness  involving  union  membership,  union  associations,  or  union  activities. 
Not  only  should  the  applicant  not  be  asked  about  membership  in  a  union  but  any 
question  should  l)e  avoided  which  might  elicit  from  the  applicant  or  from  a  witness 
union  membership  or  activities. 

2.  If  in  the  course  of  the  investigation  witnesses  say  that  a  certain  person  is 
a  Communist  because  he  has  associated  with  certain  persons  in  a  union  known 
or  said  to  be  Communists,  the  investigator  should  not  ask  the  applicant  about 
his  association  with  these  particular  individuals,  since  the  asking  of  such  ques- 
tions would  expose  the  Conunission  to  the  charge  tliat  this  is  an  indirect  way  of 
connecting  the  applicant  with  union  activities.  In  other  words,  the  question  of 
unionism  should  not  be  brought  up  in  any  way  in  an  investigation,  either  directly 
or  indirectly. 

3.  Do  not  ask  any  question  whatever  involving  the  applicant's  sympathy  with 
Loyalists  in  Spain.  This  means  that  the  investigator  should  avoid  not  only  ask- 
ing about  the  applicant's  sympathy  in  the  Spanish  war  but  no  reference  should 
be  made  to  any  such  organizations  as  the  Abraham  Lincoln  Brigade  or  any  otlier 
of  the  many  Spanish  relief  groups.  The  wliole  matter  of  the  war  in  Spain  should 
be  scrupulously  avoided  by  the  investigator  as  having  any  bearing  on  procom- 
munism. 

4.  Do  not  ask  any  question  about  membership  in  the  Washington  Book  Shop 
or  any  book  shop  in  any  city  similar  to  the  Washington  Book  Shop. 

5.  In  asking  an  applicant  whether  he  knows  a  certain  individual,  that  indi- 
vidual should  not  be  characterized  in  any  way  so  as  to  show  the  individual's  views 
or  leanings.  For  illustration,  an  applicant  should  not  be  asked :  "Do  you  know 
Jolm  Jones,  I'eputed  to  be  a  Communist?"  The  question,  if  at  all  necessary, 
should  be :  "Do  you  know  Jolm  Jones,  and  what  has  been  the  nature  of  your 
association  with  him?" 

6.  Do  not  ask  a  husband,  who  is  an  applicant,  questions  about  his  wife,  and 
do  not  ask  a  wife,  who  is  an  applicant,  questions  about  her  husband.  Ask  the 
applicant  only  as  to  matters  having  to  do  with  himself  but  not  with  members 
of  his  family  or  others. 

7.  During  the  special  interview  never  argue  with  the  applicant  or  indicate  that 
you  think  he  is  evasive.  Simply  ask  the  question  and  record  the  answer.  If  it 
is  your  opinion  that  the  applicant  is  evasive  or  untruthful,  you  may  say  so  in 
your  report  and  give  the  basis  for  your  statement. 

8.  In  speaking  to  the  applicant  or  to  a  witness  do  not  characterize  an  organi- 
zation as  communistic  or  Fascist.  Do  not  characterize  it  at  all.  Do  not  say  : 
"We  have  information  that  you  have  been  active  in  the  International  Labor 


634  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Defense,  a  Communist  organization."  Say,  rather :  "We  have  information  that 
you  have  been  connected  with  the  International  Labor  Defense.  Have  you  been 
associated  with  this  organization  and  what  has  been  the  nature  of  such  asso- 
ciation?" 

9.  Do  not  asls  a  witness  any  question  in  such  form  that  the  witness  may 
derive  information  regarding  the  applicant  which  he  otherwise  would  not  have. 
Remember  that  your  task  is  to  obtain  information  and  not  give  information.  Do 
not  ask  a  witness  whether  John  Jones,  applicant,  is  a  Communist  unless  you 
immediately  follow  with  the  question  whether  John  Jones  is  a  Fascist  or  pro- 
Nazi.     The  same  applies  with  respect  to  the  questioning  of  the  applicant. 

10.  Under  no  circumstances  ask  any  question  or  make  any  statement  to  the 
applicant  or  to  a  witness  relating  directly  or  indirectly  to  the  color,  race,  creed, 
or  religion  of  an  applicant  or  witness. 

11.  Obtain  all  available  information  from  witnesses  which  will  help  establish 
whether  the  applicant  was  a  Communist  Party  line  conformist.  Do  not  discuss 
the  party  line  with  the  applicant  or  with  witnesses.  Familiarize  yourself  thor- 
oughly with  the  party  line  test  and  ask  questions  which  will  s]iecifically  bring 
out  whether  the  applicant  changed  his  views  at  certain  periods  but  do  not  men- 
tion party  line  unless  the  witness  offers  the  information  that  the  applicant  did 
follow  the  Communist  Party  line.  In.that  event  ask  the  witness  specillcally  what 
statement  or  actions  on  the  part  of  the  applicant  he  has  in  mind  or  knows 
about  which  leads  him  to  the  conclusion  that  the  applicant  was  a  party  line 
follower.  Again,  have  in  mind  it  is  not  your  function  to  argue  or  give  informa- 
tion but  merely  to  elicit  information.  Attached  hereto  you  will  find  a  statement 
which  will  help  you  to  understand  what  is  meant  by  the  Communist  Party  line. 

12.  Do  not  ask  any  question  regarding  the  type  of  reading  matter  read  by 
the  applicant.  This  includes  especially  the  Daily  Worker  and  all  radical  and 
liberal  publications.  Remember  that  the  mere  fact  that  a  person  reads  a  certain 
publication  is  no  indication  that  he  believes  in  the  principles  advocated  by  such 
publication.     Citizens  are  free  to  read  anything  they  like. 

13.  Do  not  ask  any  questions  as  to  so-called  mixed  parties,  that  is  to  say, 
whether  the  applicant  associates  with  Negroes  or  has  had  Negroes  in  his  home. 

14.  Do  not  ask  regarding  membership  or  interest  in  the  Lawyers  Guild,  the 
American  Civil  Liberties  Union,  the  Socialist  Party,  the  League  of  Women 
Shoppers,  or  the  Harry  Bridges  Defense  Committee.  This  is  not  a  complete 
list  of  organizations  about  which  no  questions  should  be  asked,  but  investigators 
should  avoid  asking  any  questions  regarding  any  organization  unless  it  has 
been  authoritatively  designated  as  subversive.  If  the  investigator  is  in  doubt  the 
best  policy  is  not  to  ask  the  question. 

15.  Do  not  ask  general  questions  regarding  the  political  philosophy  of  the 
applicant,  such  as,  whether  he  believes  in  capitalism  or  what  his  opinion  is  re- 
garding certain  events  of  a  current  or  historical  nature. 

16.  Do  not  ask  intimate  personal  questions.  Do  not  ask  such  questions  as 
come  under  the  category  of  "snooping." 

17.  Exercise  intelligence.  Keep  in  mind  what  you  are  looking  for.  Remember 
that  you  are  investigating  the  loyalty  of  the  applicant  to  the  United  States.  You 
are  not  investigating  whether  his  views  are  unorthodox  or  do  not  conform  with 
those  of  the  majority  of  the  people.  What  you  are  looking  for  is  to  determine 
whether  there  is  evidence  that  the  applicant's  interest  in  the  welfare  of  another 
country  transcends  his  interest  in  the  welfare  of  the  United  States.  Remember 
that  a  question  of  an  improper  nature  will  result  in  criticism  of,  and  embarrass- 
ment to,  the  Conmiission.  Do  not  ask  any  question  which  is  immaterial  and 
has  no  bearing  on  the  ultimate  issue  involved. 

18.  The  investigator  conducting  a  loyalty  investigation  should  also  conduct 
any  special  hearing  which  may  be  required.  However,  newly  employed  investi- 
gators or  investigators  without  experience  in  loyalty  cases  should  discuss  the 
questions  to  be  asked  during  the  special  hearing  with  their  supervisors.  Where 
feasible  an  investigator  thoroughly  experienced  in  loyalty  matters  should  sit  in 
on  all  special  hearings  in  which  derogatory  information  relative  to  loyalty  is 
to  be  discussed. 

From  time  to  time  you  will  receive  additional  instructions  as  to  what  to  do 
and  what  not  to  do  in  the  course  of  investigation  of  loyalty  cases.  The  foregoing 
instructions  are  to  be  rigidly  observed  and  any  deviation  therefrom  will  be 
cause  for  disciplinary  action. 

L.   A.   MOYER, 

Executive  Director  and  Chief  Examiner. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  635 

Mr.  Alfred  Klein,  who  wrote  those  instructions,  is  the  same  Klein 
whose  decision  in  one  case  has  been  so  widely  quoted.     Mr.  Klein  said : 

If  I  had  to  express  an  opinion  as  to  whetlier  the  applicant  is  a  Communist,  my 
reply  would  be  in  the  afiirniative.  However,  I  am  constrained  to  recommend 
that  the  applicant  be  rated  eligible. 

]Mr.  Klein  should  be  called  upon  to  tell  who  or  what  constrained  him 
to  recommend  eligibility  for  a  person  he  believed  to  be  a  Communist. 
However,  Mr.  Klein  is  one  of  the  men  whose  opinions  on  loyalt}^  cases 
the  Civil  Service  Commission  considered  essential.  Such  infantile 
remarks  amply  demonstrate  the  unfitness  of  this  Commission  official 
to  judge  any  case  involving  loyalty.  It  is  my  opinion  that  it  is  safe  to 
say  that  the  records  of  the  Civif  Service  Commission  contain  many 
such  idiotic  remarks  by  Mr.  Klein. 

Mr.  Raxkin.  How  do  you  spell  that  name  Klein? 

Mr.  BusBEY.  K-1-e-i-n. 

]\Ir.  Rankin.  Is  that  Alfred  Klein? 

Mr.  BusEEY.  Yes.  Call  it  malfeasance,  misfeasance,  nonfeasance,  or 
what  you  will,  it  supports  my  contention  that  the  Civil  Service  Com- 
mission bungled  the  job  of  keeping  undesirables  from  the  Government 
service. 

Now  that  these  disloyal  and  potentially  disloyal  persons  did  succeed 
in  getting  into  Government  positions,  the  question  arose  after  VJ-day 
of  how  to  get  them  out. 

On  March  21. 1947,  the  President  issued  an  Executive  order  prescrib- 
ing procedures  for  the  administration  of  an  employees  loyalty  program- 
in  the  executive  branch  of  the  Government.  This  orcler  placed  the 
responsibility  on  the  Federal  Bureau  of  Investigation  for  conducting 
all  lo3'alty  investigations.  It  placed  the  responsibility  on  the  Civil 
Service  Commission  to  see  that  disloyal  persons  were  not  permitted  to 
obtain  Government  positions  and  it  placed  the  responsibility  on  the 
head  of  each  department  and  agency  to  see  that  disloyal  employees 
are  not  retained. 

The  Executive  order  also  established  within  the  Civil  Service  Com- 
mission "'a  Loyalty  Review  Board  of  not  less  than  three  impartial 
persons." 

Congress  was  then  asked  to  appropriate  funds  to  carry  out  the  provi- 
sions of  this  Executive  order.  To  date  Congress  has  appropriated 
$7,000,000  to  the  Civil  Service  Commission  to  be  used  exclusively  on 
the  loyalt}'  program  as  enunciated  in  the  President's  Executive  order. 
Half  of  this  amount  was  appropriated  for  the  fiscal  year  of  1948  and 
the  other  half  for  the  fiscal  year  of  1949.  Thus  we  know  that  the 
Civil  Service  Commission  has  spent  at  least  314  million  dollars  during 
the  fiscal  year  of  1948  in  ridding  the  Government  service  of  persons  of 
questionable  loj^alty. 

Xow,  let's  look  at  the  effectiveness  of  the  manner  in  which  this  loyalty 
program  has  been  administered.  I'll  give  but  two  examples,  one  case 
under  the  jurisdiction  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission  and  the  other 
case  under  the  jurisdiction  of  the  liead  of  an  agency. 

The  first  case  is  that  of  William  Remington.  This  man  was  per- 
mitted to  transfer  from  one  Government  agenc}^  to  another  without 
any  clearance  from  the  FBI.  According  to  the  recent  testimony  of 
Miss  Elizabeth  Bentley,  she  informed  the  FBI  in  1945  of  her  associa- 
tion and  the  activities  of  Remington.     Now  one  of  two  things  oc- 


■636  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

ciirred — either  the  Civil  Service  Commission  permitted  tlie  transfer  of 
Eemington  without  benefit  of  a  report  from  the  FBI  or  they  per- 
jnitted  the  transfer  without  regard  to  the  information  from  the  FBI. 
In  either  case  the  Civil  Service  Connnission  erred. 

The  other  case  is  that  of  Jesse  Epstein,  employed  by  the  Federal 
Public  Housing  Committee. 

Incidentally,  if  you  want  to  read  the  record  of  Mr.  Jesse  Epstein, 
I  recommend  a  reading  of  the  first  report  of  un-American  activities  in 
Washington  State  that  is  just  off  the  press.  His  whole  history  is  in 
there. 

Mr.  Epstein  was  identified  as  a  member  of  the  professional  unit  of 
the  Communist  Party  in  Seattle,  Wash.  The  loyalty  board  of  the 
Federal  Public  Housing  Authority,  acting  under  the  Presidential  di- 
rective of  March  21, 1947,  cleared  Mr.  Epstein  and  the  Loyalty  Review 
Board  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission  approved  it. 

These  tAvo  cases,  standing  alone,  show  the  ineffectiveness  of  the 
Civil  Service  Commission  and  the  Executive  order.  Further  proof  is 
the  statement  of  the  chairman  of  the  Loyalty  Review  Board  made 
several  days  ago  that  no  Government  employee  had  been  removed 
from  the  service  under  the  provisions  of  the  Executive  order. 

That  is  quoted  in  the  Washington  News  of  July  28.     He  admits 

that  not  a  single  person  has  been  removed  from  tlie  pay  rolls  under 

this   Executive   order,   notwithstanding   the   fact   they   have   spent, 

or  I  should  say  squandered,  these  millions  of  dollars  of  the  tax- 

■  p)ayers'  money. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Can  you  identify  the  man  who  made  that  statement  ? 

Mr.  BusBEY.  The  man  referred  to  in  the  paper  as  having  made  that 
statement  is  Mr.  Seth  Richardson,  of  the  Loyalty  Review  Board. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  BusBEY.  The  Federal  Bureau  of  Investigation  is  spending  the 
funds  Congress  appropriated  in  the  manner  contemplated.  They  have 
conducted  thousands  of  investigations  as  provided  by  the  Executive 
order  and  they  are  still  making  investigations.  In  view  of  the  recent 
disclosures  before  two  congressional  committees,  no  one  can  be  heard 
to  say  that  the  FBI  is  without  information  about  the  questionable 
activities  of  Government  employees.     But  what  good  has  it  done  ? 

The  Civil  Service  Commission  has  failed  miserably  in  its  duty  and 
the  Executive  order  has  proved  to  be  worthless  as  an  instrument  to 
rid  the  Government  of  employees  of  questionable  loyalty. 

The  Civil  Service  Commission  cannot  be  heard  to  say  that  they  did 
not  have  sufficient  funds  to  carry  out  the  part  assigned  to  them  by  the 
Executive  order. 

Mr.  Chairman,  I  am  leading  up  to  simply  this:  On  March  22,  1947, 
President  Truman  issued  Executive  Order  9835,  ostensibly  for  the  pur- 
pose of  ridding  the  Federal  Government  of  Communists,  Communist 
sympathizers,  fellow  travelers,  and  anyone  considered  disloyal  or 
subversive. 

The  following  day,  Sunday,  March  23,  1947,  papers  were  carrying 
big  headlines  to  the  effect  that  they  would  be  removed,  and  I  quote 
from  the  Washington  Post.  "Truman  wants  disloyal  employees  fired"; 
the  Times-Herald  carried  a  big  headline  on  the  same  date,  "Truman 
wants  reds  fired  from  U.  S.  jobs."  In  the  Washington  Star  of  the 
same  date  appeared  the  headline,  "Truman  Avants  FBI  to  weed  out 
all  disloyal  Federal  workers." 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  637 

The  people  of  the  United  States  were  exceedingly  happy  over  this 
turn  of  events  and  thought  the  President  sincere  in  his  announcement. 
Under  Executive  Order  08o5  a  Loyalty  Keview  Board  was  set  up  in 
the  United  States  Civil  Service  Commission  to  handle  these  cases; 
but,  notwithstanding  the  fact  that  Congress  to  date  has  appropriated 
over;  $17,000,000  for  this  specific  purpose  in  cooperation  with  the 
President,  in  the  hope  that  he  was  sincere  in  his  statement,  the  results 
so  far  are  zero.  It  is  my  personal  opinion  that  outside  of  the  work 
done  by  the  FBI  and  the  records  they  have  compiled  from  the  amount 
that  was  allotted  to  them,  the  money  has  been  squandered  and  abso- 
lutely no  results  obtained. 

It  is  not  surprising  to  me  that  this  Loyalty  Review  Board  has  done 
nothing,  because  if  you  will  look  over  the  23  names  originaly  appointed 
to  this  Board  you  will  readily  come  to  the  conclusion  that  not  a  single 
one  of  them  is  qualified  to  pass  on  cases  of  loyalty  or  security  risk.  It 
is  my  belief  that  if  the  President  of  the  L^nited  States  had  been  sincere 
in  wanting  to  rid  the  Federal  Government  of  the  hundreds  of  unde- 
sirables he  would  have  insisted  that  a  board  of  coiupetent  and  experi- 
enced men  in  the  field  of  communism  be  appointed. 

It  was  shameful  and  disgraceful  to  have  misled  the  American  people 
into  thinking  that  something  was  going  to  be  done  by  the  present 
administration  to  clean  out  all  of  these  undesirables  in  order  to  detract 
their  minds  from  the  fact  that  the  Civil  Service  Commission  had  not 
performed  its  duty  in  declaring  these  people  ineligible  and  removing' 
them  from  the  pay  roll. 

I  am  well  aware  of  the  terrific  smear  campaign  carried  on  against 
this  committee  and  its  members  by  tlie  Communists  of  this  country 
in  order  to  discredit  the  work  you  have  been  doing  to  see  that  only 
people  whose  loyalty  cannot  be  questioned  remain  on  the  pay  roll.  The 
l^eople  of  this  countrj^  owe  undying  gratitude  to  this  committee  for  the 
wonderful  work  being  done  at  the  ]iresent  time. 

It  is  my  further  opinion  that  if  President  Truman  was  sincere  in 
his  desire  to  rid  our  Federal  Government  of  employees  from  high 
places  in  important  key  positions  who  are  definitely  a  security  risk 
to  the  future  welfare  and  security  of  our  Government,  in  light  of 
present-day  conditions,  he  would  want  all  departments  of  Govern- 
ment to  make  available  immediately  all  information  in  the  files  of 
the  various  departments,  the  FBI,  and  the  Civil  Service  Commission, 
to  all  proper  congressional  investigating  committees.  The  fact  that 
he  has  thrown  every  possible  obstacle  in  the  wa}^  of  this  committee,  as 
well  as  other  committees,  from  obtaining  information  that  is  rightly 
due  them  can  only  lead  to  one  conclusion,  in  my  mind,  and  that  is  that 
he  does  not  want  the  truth  to  come  out  because  it  would  be  em- 
barrassing to  the  present  administration  and  reflect  on  the  heads  of 
the  various  departments  who,  notwithstanding  the  fact  that  they 
have  had  information  given  them  which  is  in  their  files  at  the  present 
time,  have  not  had  the  courage  to  take  the  necessary  steps  to  sever 
these  individuals  from  the  pay  roll  or  have  willfully  neglected  to  do 
so  for  political  reasons.  The  investigation  your  committee  is  now 
conducting  is  far  above  any  partisan  consideration.  Loyalty  to  one's 
country  comes  ahead  of  any  political  part3\ 

One  more  suggestion  and  I  am  through.  I  think  this  Committee 
to  Investigate  Un-American  Activities  should  constantly  appeal  to 
the  conscience  of  other  people  like  Miss  Bentle}^,  Professor  Budenz, 


638  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

and  Mr.  Whittaker  Chambers  to  repudiate  their  Communist  comrades 
and  come  forward  to  give  testimony  in  behalf  of  our  country. 

In  view  of  the  little  we  have  learned  of  the  activities  of  the  Civil 
Service  Commission  in  placing,  or  allowing  to  be  placed,  Communists 
and  Communist  sympathizers  in  important  Government  positions, 
I  am  firmly  convinced  that  if  President  Truman  was  sincere  h\  his 
desire  to  remove  from  the  Government  service  all  persons  of  ques- 
tionable loyalty,  he  would  not  have  delegated  any  authority  under 
his  Executive  order  to  the  Civil  Service  Commission. 

jVIr.  MuNDT.  I  have  no  questions.  The  Congressman  has  made  a 
very  excellent  statement  here. 

I  would  like  to  say  that  if  he  or  any  other  person  should  go  down 
to  the  chambers  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  now, 
they  would  probably  find  four  or  five  agents  of  the  Civil  Service 
Commission  down  there  checking  the  files  of  the  committee  in  tlieir 
loyalty  investigation.  They  will  also  probably  find  several  FBI 
agents  there,  and  also  agents  from  the  Navy,  the  State  Department, 
the  Treasury  Department,  and  every  other  agency  of  the  Govern- 
ment. Those  men  have  been  there,  if  I  am  correct,  about  22,000 
times  since  those  files  were  made  available  to  all  proper  agencies  of 
tlie  United  States  Government. 

In  view  of  the  fact  that  it  is  becoming  more  and  more  difficult 
for  committees  of  either  the  House  or  the  other  body  to  get  any 
information  from  the  executive  branch  of  the  Government,  I  am 
wondering  if  it  wouldn't  be  a  good  idea  for  the  committee  to  over- 
haul its  thinking  on  those  matters,  and  I  intend  to  suggest  that  at 
our  executive  meeting  this  afternoon. 

That  is  all  I  have.    Are  there  any  questions  ? 

Mr.  BusBEY.  I  can  personally  testify  to  the  correctness  of  your 
statement  or  observation,  because  I  am  in  the  files  of  your  committee 
nearly  every  day,  and  I  see  these  people  working  there  from  these 
various  agencies  of  Government. 

Mr.  McDowell.  That  is  right ;  and  I  check  them  every  day. 

Mr.  Eankix.  Mr.  Chairman,  this  committee  has  consistently  sup- 
plieil  information  to  the  various  departments  of  the  Government,  and 
until  tlie  FBI  is  made  an  independent  agency,  the  various  departments 
of  the  Government  are  going  to  have  to  look  to  this  committee  for 
such  information,  and  I  don't  think  we  should  withhold  it  from  them 
if  they  are  honestly  attempting  to  secure  it. 

Mr.  BusBEY.  Mr.  Chairman,  in  connection  with  this  matter  I  think 
it  would  be  well  if  I  would  be  so  bold  as  to  suggest  to  the  committee 
that  when  Mr.  Wallace  was  Secretary  of  Agriculture  and  the  AAA  i^ro- 
gram  was  established,  you  will  find  many  of  these  individuals  whose 
names  are  coming  out  in  this  investigation  were  members  of  that  AAA 
program.  Such  names  as  Lee  Pressman,  Alger  Pliss,  Nathan  Witt,  and, 
as  you  will  recall.  Professor  Tugwell  were  down  there  at  that  time. 
From  my  observations  and  my  conclusions  I  would  say  that  while  the 
AAA  program  was  established  in  the  Department  of  Agriculture  un- 
der Henry  Wallace,  that  could  rightfully  be  termed  the  spawning 
ground  of  all  Coinmunists  in  Government,  because  from  this  little 
group  in  the  AAA,  they  fanned  out  into  all  branches  of  Government. 

I  respectfully  suggest  that  it  might  be  worth  while  to  go  back  into 
the  old  rolls  in  1033.  One  of  the  key  movers  down  there  was  a 
Harold  Ware,  the  son  of  Ella  Reeve  Bloor,  affectionately  known  among 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  639 

tlie  Comniiinists  as  Mother  Bloor,  and  he  was  one  of  the  keymen  at 
that  time  in  bi-inoiug-  Communists  into  this  Government,  and  they 
were  fanning  out  from  the  spawning  ground  down  there  in  the  AAA. 

I  might  respectfully  suggest  not  only  to  the  committee  but  to  every- 
one that  they  read  the  remarks  of  Chairman  Rees,  of  the  Committee 
on  Civil  Service  and  Post  Office,  in  yesterday's  Record,  on  page  9935. 
They  are  quite  enlightening  on  this  subject. 

Mr,  Mi^NDT.  Ml".  Nixon. 
■    Mr.  Nixox.  Mr.  Busbey,  I  understand  from  j^our  statement  that 
Gregory  Silvermaster  is  still  eligible  for  Government  employment; 
and  that  as  far  as  the  Civil  Service  Commission  is  concerned,  the  door 
is  still  open  for  him  to  come  into  the  Government. 

jNIr.  Bi  8BEY.  As  far  as  I  know,  there  is  nothing  in  the  Civil  Service 
Commission  files  that  would  prevent  him  coming  back.  There  is 
information  which,  in  my  opinion,  should  prevent  him  coming  back 
to  the  Government,  but  they  would  take  the  case  under  consideration 
if  he  applied  again. 

Uv.  3.IUNDT.  :Mr.  Hebert. 

]\Ir.  Hebert.  No  questions. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  ;Mr.  Rankin. 

Mr.  Rankin.  If  they  go  to  New  York  and  they  ask  for  employment, 
they  can't  even  ask  a  man  whether  he  is  a  Communist,  and  so  he  can 
find  a  safe  storm  cellar. 

]Mr.  MuNDT.  Is  there  anything  further? 

Mr.  Busbey.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  request  permission  to  have  inserted  in 
the  record  this  clipping  from  the  Washington  News  of  Wednesday, 
July  28,  1948,  and  also  an  article  from  the  Washington  Post  dated 
Wednesday,  February  6,  1935. 

(The  two  clippings  referred  to  above  are  as  follows :) 

[From  the  News  (Washington),  Wednesday,  July  2S,  1948] 
(Front  page:) 

Rees  To  Name  United  States  Workers  Who  Ought  To  Be  Fired 

truman's  loyalty  check  is  ineffective,  he  says 
(Page  3:) 

Representative  Rees  To  Name  Disloyal  Workers 

(By  United  Press) 

House  Post  Office  and  Civil  Service  Committee  Cliairman  Edvpard  H.  Rees 
(Republican,  Kansas)  said  today  he  will  name  on  the  House  floor  sometime  in 
the  next  few  days  some  disloyal  Government  workers  who  should  be  dismissed. 

He  made  the  statement  in  charging  President  Truman's  loyalty  check  on  Fed- 
eral employees  has  been  ineffective.  His  Civil  Service  Committee,  he  added,  in- 
tends to  find  out  why. 

Repi-esentative  Rees  said  he  was  particularly  concerned  about  the  5,510  Federal 
job  holders  whose  loyalty  was  investigated  by  the  FBI  in  full-scale  field  inquiries. 
He  said  as  far  as  he  can  find  out,  not  a  single  Federal  worker  has  been  fired 
under  the  President's  $12,000,000  year-old  program. 

Under  the  program,  the  FBI  is  obliged  to  investigate  the  loyalty  of  any  Federal 
employee  about  whom  it  has  derogatory  information  in  its  files. 

"Aside  from  the  43S  employees  who  resigned  from  their  positions  during  FBI 
investigations,"  said  Rees,  "the  program  has  been  ineffective." 

Representative  Rees  set  no  date  for  hearings.  He  said  he  hopes  to  get  started 
during  the  special  session  of  Congress.  If  this  is  not  possible,  a  subcommittee 
■  may  take  over  the  job  after  adjournment. 


640  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Meantime  Rees  promised  to  name  on  the  House  floor  sometime  in  the  next  few 
days  some  Government  workers  who,  he  said,  ought  to  be  fired.  He  emphasized, 
though,  that  the  overwhelming  majority  of  Federal  workers  are  loyal. 

The  Kansan  said  loyalty  officials,  acting  under  orders  from  President  Truman,, 
have  refused  his  request  for  information  on  5,510  cases  in  which  full  FBI  investi- 
gations have  been  ordered. 

(Chairman  Seth  Richardson,  of  the  Loyalty  Review  Board  told  the  United  Press 
that  in  cases  appealed  to  his  top-level  board,  no  worker  has  been  discharged.  He 
said  he  did  not  know  offhand  whether  individual  loyalty  boards,  within  Govern- 
ment agencies,  had  prompted  any  firings.) 

"For  more  than  3  years,"  said  Rees,  "I  have  urged  the  executive  branch  to 
eliminate  Federal  employees  who  advocate  Communist  Party  doctrines  and  be- 
lieve in  the  forcible  overthrow  of  our  form  of  government.  On  numerous  occa- 
sions I  have  advised  Congress  as  to  the  continued  employment  of  persons  about 
whom  there  was  a  reasonable  doubt  of  their  loyalty  to  the  United  States.  In 
each  instance  the  executive  branch  has  refused  me  information." 


New  Loyalty  Inquiry 

Representative  Ed  Rees  (Republican,  Kansas)  says  his  House  Civil  Service 
Committee  will  hold  hearings  on  the  progress  of  the  Federal  employee  loyalty 
program.    And  in  all  probability,  these  hearings  will  take  place  during  Congress. 

Mr.  Rees  charged  today  that,  except  for  the  438  employees  who  have  resigned 
while  under  FBI  investigation,  the  loyalty  program  has  been  ineffective. 

He  said  "no  information  is  available"  on  5,510  employees  found  suspect  by  the 
FBI  who  still  remain  on  their  pay  roll. 

President  Truman,  Mr.  Rees  pointed  out,  has  given  strict  orders  that  Federal 
agencies  must  not  release  loyalty  case  data  to  Congress  without  prior  approval 
from  the  White  House.  He  implied  that  this  is  the  reason  no  information  is 
available  on  the  5,510  cases. 

During  the  committee  hearings,  INIr.  Rees  said,  agency  loyalty  boards  will  be 
asked  to  give  full  details  on  their  policies,  procedures,  and  accomplishments.  He 
added : 

"Unless  the  FBI  investigations  are  seriously  considered  by  the  loyalty  boards 
and  disloyal  employees  removed  from  the  pay  roll,  the  $12,000,000  spent  on  the 
loyalty  program  will  have  been  wasted." 


[From  the  Washington  Post,  Wednesday,  February  6,  1935,  pp.  1  and  3] 
Frank  Loses  Post  in  AAA  Shake-up 

counsel's  JOR  abolished,  duties  transferred  ;  HOWE,  ALSO  LEFT-WINGER, 
BELIEVED  ELIMINATED  FROM  KEY  POSITION  ;  REORGANIZATION  VIEWED  VICTORY  FOR 
DAVIS  OVER  TUG  well's  FACTION 

A  drastic  shake-up  was  announced  by  the  Agricultural  Adjustment  Adminis- 
tration last  night,  resulting  in  elimination  of  Jerome  Frank,  one  of  the  best-known 
New  Deal  legal  lights  and  a  close  associate  of  Under  Secretary  of  Agriculture 
Rexford  Guy  Tugwell. 

Frank's  post  as  counsel  for  AAA  was  abolished  and  its  functions  transferred 
to  the  office  of  the  Solicitor  of  the  Department  of  Agriculture. 

Another  well-known  left-winger,  Frederic  C.  Howe,  consumers'  counsel,  appears 
to  have  been  shuffled  out  of  his  key  position.  His  post  was  merged  into  a  new 
operating  council.  It  was  understood  he  would  not  retain  his  position,  but 
whether  he  would  remain  in  some  other  capacity  was  not  clear. 

Three  others  in  the  Administration  are  understood  to  have  resigned,  two  of 
them  members  of  Frank's  legal  staff.  They  are  Victor  Rotman,  Chief  of  the 
Marketing  Agreement  Section,  and  Francis  M.  Shea,  Cliief  of  the  Opinion  Section. 

The  third  resignation  was  that  of  Howe's  assistant,  Gardner  Jackson,  who  was 
recently  mentioned  by  Representative  Hamilton  Fish  as  having  contributed, 
among  others,  to  the  rank  and  file  committee  seeking  to  promote  a  bonus  march 
on  Washington. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  641 

It  was  uncertain  as  to  what  another  of  Frank's  assistants,  Alger  Hiss,  would 
do.  It  was  understood  Mr.  David  would  be  glad  to  retain  him.  He  was  recently- 
assigned  to  assist  Senator  Nye's  connuittee  in  its  munitions  investigation. 

Lee  Pressman,  another  member  of  Frank's  legal  staff,  may  resign. 

TJie  regTouping  brought  a  number  of  subordinates  into  the  new  operating 
council,  which  will  function  under  Chester  C.  Davis,  AAA  Administrator. 

Tliis  development,  which  has  been  brewing  for  some  time,  appeared  to  be  a 
blow  at  the  Tugwell  wing  in  the  Agriculture  Department.  Dr.  Tugwell  himself 
is  in  Florida.  In  some  quarters  it  was  said  he  had  no  advance  notice  of  the 
reorganization.  The  shift  was  interpreted  as  indicating  a  victory  for  Mr.  Davis 
in  an  internal  struggle  with  the  brain  trust  left-wingers. 

Officials  said  no  specific  thing  caused  the  reorganization,  but  there  was  a  con- 
flict in  personal  views  with  Chester  Davis  and  as  was  said  lie  had  encountered 
resistance  in  attempts  to  have  his  policies  carried  out. 

Davis  has  held  the  function  of  the  consumers'  counsel  was  to  analyze  policies 
and  criticize  them  from  the  point  of  view  of  the  consumer,  reporting  to  the  Admin- 
istrator. It  was  said  that  Davis  had  been  displeased  in  a  number  of  instances 
where  the  consumers'  counsel  chose  to  champion  its  views  through  publicity,  thus 
carrying  its  battle  to  the  public  instead  of  confining  the  discussions  to  officials 
in  the  AAA. 

Numerous  clashes  liave  occurred  over  the  AAA  milk  policies,  with  the  con- 
sumers' counsel  charging  that  the  Administration  was  too  lenient  with  the  middle- 
men and  distributors.  The  consumers'  counsel  challenged  the  action  of  the  AAA 
in  dismissing  two  subordinate  officials.  Tlie  counsel  alleged  the  men  were  dropped 
because  of  activities  in  fighting  middlemen,  while  AAA  officials  insisted  that  they 
had  been  impractical  and  visionary  in  attempts  to  handle  the  milk  problems. 

The  .shake-up  was  reminiscent  of  a  previous  explosion  more  than  a  year  ago 
when  George  N.  Peek  was  forced  out  as  co-Admhiistrator  of  AAA  after  a  bitter 
controversy  with  Jerome  Frank,  who  was  bacl^ed  by  Dr.  Tugwell.  Brain  trust 
forces  lost  that  battle,  just  as  they  appear  to  have  lost  ground  in  the  present 
shake-up. 

Davis  has  insisted  on  a  more  conciliatory  attitude  toward  business  interests 
involved  in  AAA  policies,  while  Frank  and  his  group  insisted  upon  more  drastic 
regulatory  measures. 

The  following  announcement  was  issued  at  7  o'clock  last  night : 

"Reorganization  of  the  Agricultural  Adjustment  Administration  was  announced 
today  by  Chester  C.  Davis,  Administrator. 

"Mr.  Davis  announced  that  the  reorganization  follows  several  months  of  study 
of  ways  and  means  to  make  the  Administration  a  more  efficient  operating  unit 
of  the  Department  of  Agriculture. 

CONSOLIDATION    OF   UNITS 

"The  reorganization  will  consolidate  the  AAA  I^gal  Division  with  the  Office 
of  the  Solicitor  of  the  Department  of  Agriculture,  will  subdivide  the  Commodi- 
ties Division  into  several  smaller  divisions  reporting  directly  to  the  Adminis- 
trator's office,  and  set  up  an  operating  council  lieaded  by  tlie  Secretary  of  Agri- 
culture and  the  Administrator,  with  other  executives  as  members. 

"Effective  at  once  and  in  conformity  with  the  practice  otherwise  obtaining 
in  the  Department  of  Agriculture,  the  legal  work  of  the  Agriculture  Adjustment 
Administration  will  be  performed  under  the  supervision  and  direction  of  the 
Solicitor  of  the  Department. 

"In  addition  to  the  Secretary  of  Agriculture  and  the  Administrator,  members 
of  the  operating  council  with  their  divisions  include  A.  G.  Black,  in  charge  of 
all  livestock,  including  corn-hogs,  cattle,  and  sheep ;  Ward  M  Buckles,  finance, 
with  the  Office  of  the  Comptroller  transferred  under  his  direction ;  Cully  A. 
Cobb,  cotton ;  Victor  A.  Christgau,  commodities  purchase,  agricultural  labor, 
drought,  and  other  emergency  programs ;  J.  B.  Hutson,  tobacco,  sugar,  peanuts, 
and  rice;  George  A.  Farrell,  wheat,  flax,  barley,  rye,  and  other  grains;  Alfred  D. 
Stednian,  information ;  Jesse  W.  Tapp,  dairy  and  other  marketing  agreements 
and  licenses,  general  crops,  and  field  investigation;  H  R.  Tolley,  planning;  Seth 
Thomas,  Solicitor  of  the  Department  .of  Agriculture;  the  consumers  counsel. 

"The  reorganization  will  group  the  sections  of  the  Commodities  Division  into 
six  smaller  divisions,  each  covering  closely  related  activities." 


80408 — 48 10 


642  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

BROUGHT   IN    BY   TUG  WELL 

Frank  was  brought  into  the  AAA  by  Tugwell,  to  whom  he  had  been  recom- 
mended by  Felix  Frankfurter,  the  Harvard  legal  light  who  has  delivered  many 
proteges  to  the  New  Deal  legal  staff. 

Secretary  Wallace  and  Tugwell  attempted  first  to  make  Frank  Solicitor  of 
the  Department,  but  this  was  blocked  by  Postmaster  General  Farley.  Where- 
upon, Secretary  Wallace  made  him  general  counsel  to»AAA,  which  the  Secretary 
had  kept  out  of  the  general  patronage  market. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  The  Chair  wishes  to  express  the  appreciation  of  the 
committee  for  your  testimony.  You  have  gotten  into  a  phase  of  this 
investigation  which  is  of  very  pertinent  significance,  and  that  is  the 
manner  in  which  these  Communists  and  espionage  agents  have  been 
able  to  weasel  their  way  into  Government,  escape  detection,  and  secure 
promotion  after  they  have  been  there. 

What  you  have  said  has  been  very  helpful.  I  have  no  other  (jues- 
tions. 

The  Chair  wishes  to  say  that  there  is  something  rather  strange 
and  unusual  about  the  fact  that  we  are  living  in  an  era  when  the 
executive  departments  have  22,000  times  consulted  the  files  of  Un- 
American  Activities — we  are  glad  to  have  the  executive  agencies  do 
that — ^but  it  is  more  than  passing  strange  in  my  opinion  tlfat  in  this 
same  era  the  President's  loyalty  policy  has  prevented  the  Members  of 
Congress  from  consulting  the  loyalty  files  of  the  executive  department. 

Mr.  BusBEY.  Mr.  Chairman,  in  conclusion,  I  would  like  to  state  that 
if  it  were  possible  to  get  into  the  files  of  the  Civil  Service  Commission 
you  would  find  that  they  gave  clearance  to  many  Communists,  Com- 
munist sympathizers,  and  fellow  travelers  during  the  war  witliout  any 
investigation  whatever. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Thank  you  very  much,  Mr.  Busbey. 

Call  the  next  witness,  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Alger  Hiss. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Are  you  Mr.  Alger  Hiss  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Yes;  I  am. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Please  stand  and  be  sworn. 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  the  testimony  you  are  about  to  give  will  be 
the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  do. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Be  seated. 

TESTIMONY  OF  ALGEE  HISS 

Mr.  Hiss.  Mr.  Chairman,  may  I  be  permitted  to  make  a  brief  state- 
ment to  the  committee? 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  may. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Before  you  proceed,  I  want  you  to  give  the  com- 
mittee your  full  name  and  your  i)resent  address. 

Mr.  Hiss.  My  name  is  Alger  Hiss.  My  residence  is  22  East  Eighth 
Street,  New  York  City. 

Mr.  Rankin.  AVill  you  please  give  your  age  and  place  of  birth? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  was  born  in  Baltimoi-e,  Md.,  on  November  11,  1904.  I 
am  here  at  my  own  request  to  deny  unqualifiedly  various  statements 
about  me  which  were  made  before  this  committee  by  one  Whittaker 
Chambers  the  day  before  yesterday.  I  appreciate  the  committee's  hav- 
ing prompt  1}^  granted  my  request,    t  welcome  the  opportunity  to  an- 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  643 

swer  to  the  best  of  my  ability  any  inquiries  the  members  of  this 
committee  may  wish  to  ask  me. 

I  am  not  and  never  have  been  a  member  of  tlie  Communist  Party. 
I  do  not  and  never  liave  adhered  to  the  tenets  of  the  Communist  Party. 
I  am  not  and  never  liave  been  a  member  of  any  Communist-front  or- 
ganization. I  have  never  followed  the  Communist  Party  line,  directly 
or  indirectly.  To  the  best  of  my  knowledge,  none  o"  my  friends  is  a 
Communist. 

As  a  State  Department  official,  I  have  had  contacts  with  representa- 
tives of  foreign  governments,  some  of  whom  have  undoubtedly  been 
members  of  the  Connnunist  Party,  as,  for  example,  representatives  of 
the  Soviet  Gt)vernment.  My  contacts  with  any  foreign  representative 
who  could  possibly  have  been  a  Communist  have  been  strictly  official. 

To  the  best  of  my  knowledge,  I  jiever  heard  of  Whittaker  Chambeis 
until  in  1047.  when  two  representatives  of  the  Federal  Bureau  of  In- 
vestigation asked  me  if  I  knew  him  and  various  other  people,  some  of 
whom  I  knew  and  some  of  whom  I  did  not  knoAv.  I  said  I  did  not  know 
Chambers.  So  far  as  I  know,  I  have  never  laid  eyes  on  him,  and  I 
should  like  to  have  the  opportunity  to  do  so. 

I  have  known  Henry  Collins  since  we  were  boys  in  camp  together. 
I  knew  him  again  while  he  was  at  the  Harvard  Business  School  while 
I  was  at  the  Harvard  Law  School,  and  I  have  seen  him  from  time  to 
time  since  I  came  to  Washington  in  1933. 

Lee  Pressman  was  in  my  class  at  the  Harvard  Law  School  and  we 
were  both  on  the  Harvard  Law  Review  at  the  same  time.  We  were 
also  both  assistants  to  Judge  Jerome  Frank  on  the  legal  staff  of  the 
Agricultural  Adjustment  Administration.  Since  I  left  the  Depart- 
ment of  Agriculture  I  have  seen  him  only  occasionally  and  infre- 
quently. I  left  the  Department,  according  to  my  recollection,  in 
1935. 

Witt  and  Abt  were  both  members  of  the  legal  staff  of  the  AAA.  1 
knew  them  both  in  that  capacity.  I  believe  I  met  Witt  in  New  York 
a  year  or  so  before  I  came  to  Washington.  I  came  to  Washington 
in  1933.  We  were  both  practicing  law  in  New  York  at  the  time  I  think 
I  met  Witt. 

Kramer  was  in  another  office  of  the  AAA,  and  I  met  him  in  that 
connection. 

I  have  seen  none  of  these  last  three  men  I  have  mentioned  except 
most  infrequently  since  I  left  the  Department  of  Agriculture. 

I  don't  believe  I  ever  knew  Victor  Perlo. 

Except  as  I  have  indicated,  the  statements  made  about  me  by  Mr. 
Chambers  are  complete  fabrications.  I  think  ni}^  record  in  the  Gov- 
ernment service  speaks  for  itself. 

Mr.  MtKTDT.  Does  that  conclude  your  statement,  Mr.  Hiss? 

Mr.  Hiss.  It  does. 

Mr.  MuNDT,  jVIr.  Stripling,  have  you  any  questions  ? 

]\Ir.  Stripling.  JNlr.  Chairman,  while  the  witness  answered  some  of 
my  questions,  I  wish  to  proceed  to  ask  direct  questions  and  get  direct 
replies. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  may  proceed. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Hiss,  would  you  give  the  committee  a  resume 
of  your  educational  background,  please. 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  was  educated  in  the  public  schools  of  Baltimore.  I 
spent  1  year  after  leaving  the  Baltimore  City  College,  a  high  school, 


644  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

after  graduating  there  at  a  preparatory  school  in  Massachusetts.  I 
then  entered  Johns  Hopkins  University  from  which  I  graduated  with 
an  A.  B.  degree  in  1926.  I  then  entered  the  Harvard  Law  School 
from  which  I  graduated  in  1929. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  now  give  the  committee  a  brief  resume 
of  your  Federal  employment. 

JNIr.  Hiss.  My  first  employment  with  the  Federal  Government  was 
immediately  after  my  graduation  from  law  school  when  I  served  as 
a  secretary  to  oie  of  the  Associate  Justices  of  the  Supreme  Court  of 
the  United  States.     I  then  went  into  private  practice  in  Boston  and 
New  York  for  a  period  of  3  years  or  so,  and  came  to  Washington  on 
the  request  of  Government  officials  in  IVIay  1933  as  an  assistant  general 
counsel  to  the  xVgricultural  Adjustment  Administration. 
Mr.  Eankin.  Will  you  give  the  name  of  that  Justice,  please. 
Mr.  Hiss.  The  Justice  was  Oliver  Wendell  Holmes. 
Mr.  Nixon.  Would  you  please  give  the  names  of  the  Government 
officials  who  requested  you  to  come  to  Washington  with  the  AAA? 

Mr,  Hiss.  Yes.     Judge  Jerome  Frank  was  general  counsel.     He 
requested  me  to  come  to  Washington  to  be  an  assistant  on  his  staff. 
Mr.  Nixon.  You  said  it  in  the  plural.    Was  he  the  only  one  then  ? 
Mr.  Hiss.  There  were  some  others.    Is  it  necessary?    There  are  so 
many  witnesses  who  use  names  rather  loosely  before  your  committee, 
and  I  would  rather  limit  mj^self . 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  made  the  statement 

Mr.  Hiss.  The  statement  is  correct. 

Mr.  Nixon.  I  don't  question  its  correctness,  but  you  indicated  that 
several  Government  officials  requested  you  to  come  here  and  you  have 
issued  a  categorical  denial  to  certain  statements  that  were  made  by 
Mr.  Chambers  concerning  people  that  you  were  associated  with  in 
Government.  I  think  it  would  make  your  case  much  stronger  if  you 
would  indicate  what  Government  officials. 

Mr.  Hiss.  Mr.  Nixon,  regardless  of  whether  it  strengthens  my  case 
or  not,  I  would  prefer,  unless  you  insist,  not  to  mention  any  names  in 
my  testimony  that  I  don't  feel  are  absolutely  necessary.  If  you  insist 
on  a  direct  answer  to  your  question,  I  will  comply. 

Mr.  Nixon.  I  would  like  to  have  a  direct  answer  to  tlie  question. 
Mr.  Hiss.  Another  official  of  the  Government  of  the  United  States 
who  strongly  urged  me  to  come  to  Washington  after  I  had  told  Judge 
Fi'ank  I  did  not  think  I  could  financially  afford  to  do  so — and  I  am 
answering  this  only  because  you  ask  it — was  Justice  Felix  Frank- 
furter. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Is  that  all  ? 
Mr.  Hiss.  That  is  all  I  care  to  say  now. 
Mr.  Nixon.  Tliere  were  other  officials,  however? 
Mr.  Hiss.  When  I  came  to  Washington  for  interviews  with  respect 
to  my  proposed  appointment,  I  also  talked  naturally  to  the  Admin- 
istrator of  the  Agricultural  Adjustment  Administration,  who  would 
have  been  my  main  chief.     His  name  was  George  Peek.     The  co- 
Administrator   was   Charles   Bryan.     Both   of   them   urged   me   to 
join  the  legal  staff. 

Mr.  Nixon.  That  completes  the  group  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  That  completes  it  as  far  as  I  am  concerned.     I  might" 
think  of  a  few  others. 


i 


I 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  645 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  continue  then  with  the  chronology  of 
your  Government  employment  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  A  Senate  committee  known  as  the  Committee  Investi- 
gating the  Munitions  Industry,  of  which  Senator  Nye  was  the  chair- 
man, formally  requested  the  ibepartment  of  Agriculture  to  lend  my 
services  to  that  committee  in  its  investigations  as  their  counsel.  That 
permission  was  granted  and  I  served  on  the  staff  of  the  Senate  com- 
mittee. I  haven't  checked  the  dates  recently,  but  my  recollection  is 
that  this  w^as  either  early  in  1934  or  the  latter  part  of  19oo.  I  think 
it  was  early  in  1934  when  I  first  started  on  that  committee. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Wliat  was  your  capacity  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  was  counsel.     The  technical  title  was  legal  assistant. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Go  right  ahead. 

Mr.  Hiss.  AVhen  I  left  the  Senate  committee  I  was  next  employed 
in  the  office  of  the  Solicitor  General  of  the  United  States  at  my  request, 
Mr.  Nixon.  I  apjjlied  to  the  Solictor  General  for  a  position.  There 
was  then  before  that  office  the  constitutionality  of  the  Agricultural 
Adjustment  Act.  I  was  much  interested  in  that,  having  worked  on 
many  legal  and  administrative  phases  of  the  act,  and  I  desired  to  work 
on  that  case. 

The  then  Solicitor  General  hired  me.  I  remained  until  that  case  was 
through. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Who  w^as  the  Solicitor  General  at  that  time  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Now  Mr.  Justice  Stanley  Reed.  While  I  was  still  in  the 
Solicitor  General's  office,  one  of  the  cases  I  was  working  on  involved 
the  constitutionality  of  the  Trade  Agreement  Act.  Mr.  Francis  B. 
Sayre,  then  Assistant  Secretary  of  State  in  charge  of  the  Trade  Agree- 
ments Act,  asked  me  to  come  to  his  office  as  his  assistant  to  supervise  the 
preparation  within  the  Department  of  State  of  the  constitutional  argu- 
ments on  the  Trade  Agreements  Act.  I  did  so  and  I  remained  in  the 
Department  of  State  in  various  capacities  until  Janu;uy  15,  1947. 

I  entered  the  Department  of  State,  I  think  it  was,  in  September, 
1936.  I  resigned  in  January,  1947,  to  accept  the  appointment  to  my 
present  position  in  private  life  to  which  I  had  been  elected  the  preced- 
ing December. 

Mr.  Rankin.  What  is  that? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  am  president  of  the  Carnegie  Endowment  for  Inter- 
national Peace. 

Mr.  Hebert.  May  I  ask  the  witness  a  question  in  connection  with 
his  present  association  ? 

Mr.  Mundt.  Proceed. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Do  you  know^  Mr.  John  Foster  Dulles  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  do.     He  is  the  chairman  of  my  board  of  trustees. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Did  he  assist  you  in  any  way  in  getting  your  present 
position? 

Mr.  Hiss.  He  urged  me  to  take  my  present  position. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Then  you  are  in  your  present  position  through  the 
urging  of  Mr.  John  Foster  Dulles  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  And  other  members  of  the  board  of  trustees. 

Mr.  Hebert.  But  in  particular,  Mr.  Dulles? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Mr.  Dulles  and  others. 

Mr.  Hebert.  But  in  particular  Mr.  Dulles  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  am  afraid  I  cannot  answer  it  exactly  in  those  terms. 


646  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Hebert.  AVas  he  the  leading  urgency? 

Mr.  Hiss.  He  was  the  chairman  of  the  looarcl  of  trustees.  I  don't 
think  he  was  more  nrgent  for  my  services  than  some  of  the  other 
trustees. 

Mr.HEBERT.  But  he  first  approached  you? 

Mr.  Hiss.  He  first  approached  me. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  In  that  connection,  Mr.  Hiss,  I  would  like  to  ask  a 
question.  Did  you  know  at  the  time  you  were  appointed  to  this  posi- 
tion that  you  hold  with  the  Carnegie  Foundation,  did  you  know  at  the 
time  you  were  being  considered  for  that  position  about  the  fact  that 
Chambers  was  supposed  to  have  told  Secretary  Berle  that  you  were  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  did  not. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  You  had  not  heard  that  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  did  not. 

]Mr.  McDowell.  Mr.  Chairman,  in  that  connection  so  much  has  been 
said  in  the  last  4  da^^s  that  I  have  forgotten  entirely  what  charge  was 
made  by  Mr.  Chambers.     Would  the  chief  investigator  enlighten  me? 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  was  going  to  interrogate  the  witness  about  that  and  I 
will  do  that  at  this  time  for  the  benefit  of  Mr.  McDowell. 

Have  you  seen  a  transcript? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  carefully  read  the  entire  transcript  of  Mr.  Chambers' 
testimon}^  before  I  came  to  this  committee. 

Mr.  MiTNDT.  Then  I  don't  have  to  go  into  that  in  so  much  detail. 

Mr.  McDowell.  I  want  to  find  out  what  was  said. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  am  getting  to  it.  I  want  to  say  for  one  member  of 
the  committee  that  it  is  extremely  puzzling  that  a  man  who  is  senior 
editor  of  Time  Magazine,  by  the  name  of  Whittaker  Chambers,  whom 
I  had  never  seen  until  a  day  or  two  ago,  and  whom  you  say  you  have 
never  seen 

ISIr.  Hiss.  A:;  far  as  I  know,  I  have  never  seen  him. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  Should  come  before  this  committee  and  discuss  the 
Communist  apparatus  working  in  Washington,  which  he  says  is  trans- 
mitting secrets  to  the  Russian  Government,  and  he  lists  a  group  of 
seven  people — Nathan  Witt,  Lee  Pressman,  Victor  Perlo,  Charles 
Kramer,  John  Abt,  Harold  Ware,  Alger  Hiss,  and  Donald  Hiss 

Mr.  Hiss.  That  is  eight. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  There  seems  to  be  no  question  about  the  subversive 
connections  of  the  six  other  than  the  Hiss  brothers,  and  I  wonder 
what  possible  motive  a  man  who  edits  Time  magazine  would  have  for 
mentioning  Donald  Hiss  and  Alger  Hiss  in  connection  with  those 
other  six. 

Mr.  Hiss.  So  do  I,  Mr.  Chairman.  I  have  no  possible  understand- 
ing of  what  could  have  motivated  him.  There  are  many  possible 
motives,  I  assume,  but  I  am  unable  to  understand  it. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  can  appreciate  the  position  of  this  committee 
when  the  name  bobs  up  in  connection  with  those  associations. 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  hope  the  committee  can  appreciate  my  position,  too. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  We  surely  can  and  that  is  why  we  responded  with 
alacrity  to  your  request  to  be  heard. 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  appreciate  that. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  All  we  are  trying  to  do  is  find  the  facts. 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  wish  I  could  have  seen  Mr.  Chambers  before  he  testified. 

Mr.  Rankin.  After  all  the  smear  attacks  against  this  committee 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  647 

and  individual  members  of  this  committee  in  Time  magazine,  I  am 
]iot  surprised  at  anything  that  comes  out  of  anybody  connected  with  it. 
[Laughter.] 

iVIr.  INIuNDT.  I  believe  that  answers  the  situation  as  far  as  Mr.  Mc- 
Dowell is  concerned. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman, 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  I  would  like  to  ask  the  witness :  Mr.  Hiss,  when  did 
YOU  first  hear  of  these  allegations  on  the  part  of  Mr.  Chambers? 

Mr.  Hiss.  May  I  answer  that  this  way,  Mr.  Stripling?  By  saying 
that  the  night  before  he  testified  a  reporter  for  a  New  York  paper 
called  me  and  said  he  had  received  a  tip  that  Chambers  was  to  testify 
before  this  committee  the  next  morning  and  that  he  would  mention 
me  and  would  call  me  a  Communist. 

Mr,  Stripling.  You  say  you  have  never  seen  Mr.  Chambers? 

Mr.  Hiss.  The  name  means  absolutely  nothing  to  me,  IMr.  Stripling. 

]Mr.  Stripling.  I  have  here,  Mr.  Chairman,  a  picture  which  was 
made  last  Monday  by  the  Associated  Press.  I  understand  from 
people  who  knew  Mr.  Chambers  during  1934  and  '35  that  he  is  much 
heavier  today  than  he  was  at  that  time,  but  I  show  you  this  picture, 
]Mr.  Hiss,  and  ask  you  if  jou  have  ever  known  an  individual  who 
resembles  this  picture. 

Mr,  Hiss.  I  would  much  rather  see  the  indiA'idual.  I  have  looked 
at  all  the  pictures  I  was  able  to  get  hold  of  in,  I  think  it  was,  yester- 
day's paper  which  had  the  pictures.  If  this  is  a  picture  of  Mr. 
Chambers,  he  is  not  particularly  unusual  looking.  He  looks  like  a  lot 
of  people.  I  might  even  mistake  him  for  the  chairman  of  this  com- 
mittee.     [Laughter.] 

Mr.  Mundt.  I  hope  you  are  wrong  in  that. 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  didn't  mean  to  be  facetious  but  very  seriously,  I  would 
not  want  to  take  oath  that  I  have  never  seen  that  man.  I  would  like 
to  see  him  and  then  I  think  I  would  be  better  able  to  tell  whether 
I  had  ever  seen  him.     Is  he  here  today? 

Mr.  Mundt.  Not  to  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  hoped  he  would  be. 

Mr.  Mundt.  You  realize  that  this  man  whose  picture  you  have  just 
looked  at,  under  sworn  testimony  before  this  committee,  where  all 
the  laws  of  perjury  apply,  testified  that  he  called  at  your  home,  con- 
ferred at  great  length,  saw  your  wife  pick  up  the  telephone  and  call 
somebody  whom  he  said  must  have  been  a  Communist,  plead  with 
you  to  divert  yourself  fi;om  Communist  activities,  and  left  you  with 
tears  in  your  eyes,  saying,  "I  simply  can't  make  the  sacrifice." 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  do  know  that  he  said  that.  I  also  know  that  I  am 
testifying  under  those  same  laws  to  the  direct  contrary. 

JSIr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  could  I  pursue  one  point  ? 

IMr.  Mundt.  Go  ahead. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  say  you  first  heard  of  Mr.  Chambers'  accusations 
against  you,  concerning  you,  the  night  before  he  testified? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  would  like  to  amplify  that  by  saying  I  also  had  heard 
in  the  course  of  last  winter  indirectly  that  a  man  named  Chambers 
was  calling  me  a  Communist.  I  heard  that  while  I  was  in  New  York 
last  year,  but  I  did  not  know 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  the  FBI  investigate  you? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Two  agents  of  the  FBI,  as  I  stated  in  my  initial  state- 
ment, came  to  see  me  in  my  office  after  I  had  left  the  Government. 


648  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

I  think  it  was  in  May  1947.  They  asked  me  about  various  indi- 
viduals. They  also  asked  me  if  I  was  a  Conununist.  They  asked 
me  a  number  of  questions  not  unlike  the  points  Mr.  Chambers  testified 
to  in  the  course  of  their  investigation.  They  asked  me  if  I  knew  the 
names  of  a  number  of  people. 

One  of  those  names  was  Chambers.      I  remember  very  distinctly 
because  I  had  never  heard  the  name  Whittaker  Chambers.     They  asked 
me  first  if  I  knew  anyone  named  Chambers,  and  I  did. 
•  Mr.  Stripling.  Were  you  investigated  under  the  loyalty  program  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  am  afraid  I  don't  know. 

Mr,  Stripling.  You  went  to  the  FBI  and  made  a  statement  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  In  1946,  shortly  after  I  came  back  from  London  where 
I  had  been  at  the  first  meeting  of  the  General  Assembly  of  the  United 
Nations,  Mr.  Justice  Byrnes,  then  Secretary  of  State  and  my  chief, 
called  me  into  his  office.  He  said  that  several  Members  of  Congress 
were  preparing  to  make  statements  on  the  floor  of  Congress  that  I 
was  a  Communist.  He  asked  me  if  I  were,  and  I  said  I  was  not. 
He  said,  "This  is  a  very  serious  matter.  I  think  all  the  stories  center 
from  the  FBI.  I  think  they  are  the  people  who  have  obtained  what- 
ever information  has  been  obtained.  I  think  you  would  be  well 
advised  to  go  directly  to  the  FBI  and  offer  yourself  for  a  very  full 
inquiry  and  investigation." 

He  also  said  he  thought  it  would  be  sensible  for  me  to  go  to  the  top 
man,  and  I  agreed. 

I  immediately  went  to  my  own  office,  put  in  a  call  for  Mr.  J.  Edgar 
Hoover,  who  was  not  in  town.  I  was  courteously  received  by  his 
second  in  command.  I  think  it  was  Mr.  Tamm  in  those  days.  I 
saw  Mr.  Tamm  fairly  shortly  after  that  at  his  convenience.  He 
arranged  an  appointment.  I  am  not  absolutely  sure  he  was  the  one 
I  saw.     He  was  the  one  I  called  and  talked  to. 

I  told  him  my  conversation  with  the  Secretary  of  State  and  said 
I  offered  myself  for  any  inquiry.  They  said  did  I  have  any  state- " 
ment  to  make?  I  said  I  was  glad  to  make  any  statement  upon  any 
subject  they  suggested,  and  they  had  no  specific  one  initially.  So  I 
simply  recited  every  organization  I  had  been  connected  with  to  see  if 
that  could  possibly  be  of  any  significance  to  them.  They  asked  me  if 
I  knew  certain  individuals.  Among  the  names  I  remember  was  that 
of  Lee  Pressman.  I  told  them  how  I  had  known  him  and  the  extent 
to  which  I  had  known  him  as  I  have  before  this  committee.  They  did 
not  mention  the  name  Chambers,  I  am  quite  sure. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  they  mention  Whittaker  Chambers? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  am  quite  sure  the  first  time  I  ever  heard  that  name  was 
in  May  1947  when  two  other  agents  of  the  FBI  came  to  my  office— I 
was  not  then  in  Government — at  700  Jackson  Place  and  interro- 
gated me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  were  not  aware  that  Mr.  Chambers  had  given 
this  affidavit  to  the  Federal  authorities  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  was  not. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  which  your  name  and  that  of  your  wife  was 
connected  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  certainly  was  not. 

Mr.  Rankin.  When  was  it  you  were  called  into  Justice  Byrnes' 
office  ? 

Mr,  Hiss.  I  think  it  was  about  March  or  April  1946,  Mr.  Rankin. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  649 

jNIr.  ]VIcDt)AVj:LL.  Mr.  Hiss,  didn't  you  call  on  me  early  this  year? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  did,  Mr.  McDowell. 

Mr.  McDowell.  I  recall  now. 

Mr.  Hiss.  Under  very  different  connections. 

Mr.  jMcDowell.  Yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  JSIr.  Berle  never  told  you  anything  of  his  conversa- 
tions ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Mr.  Berle  never  spoke  to  me  about  this  subject. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Never  discussed  the  possibility  that  you  were  a  Com- 
munist or  the  charges  that  you  were  a  Communist  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  No  ;  he  did  not. 

Mr.  ]\IuxDT.  Can  you  think  of  anything  which  might  throw  any 
light  on  the  reason  why  these  charges  have  been  made,  either  by  Cham- 
bers or  by  some  Members  of  Congress?  Anything  in  your  association 
other  than  the  fact  that  you  were  thrown  in  connection  with  Pressman 
as  a  part  of  your  official  duties  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Mr.  Chairman,  as  to  the  Members  of  Congress,  I  have  the 
same  impression  the  Secretary  of  State  had — that  their  information  all 
came  from  the  same  source.  As  to  the  FBI  information,  it  seems  in 
the  light  of  Chambers'  testimony  that  they,  too,  had  only  that  source 
of  information.  I  have  no  basis,  as  I  said  before,  for  imagining  why 
he  should  have  used  my  name. 

JNIr.  jMundt.  Have  you  ever  belonged  to  any  of  the  organizations  the 
Attorney  General's  office  has  listed  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  have  not,  Mr.  Chairman,  and  I  so  stated  in  my  opening 
remarks. 

Mv.  Mundt.  Has  your  wife  ever  belonged  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  She  has  not,  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge — and  I  think  I 
would  know. 

Mr.  Mundt.  She  has  never  been  a  Communist  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  She  has  not.  Again  I  must  say  under  oath,  to  the  best 
of  my  knowledge.  I  think  my  knowledge  is  better  than  Mr.  Chambers 
on  that. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Especially  about  your  wife. 

]Mr.  Hiss.  That  is  what  I  am  saying. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Hiss,  do  you  know  Nathan  Gregory  Silver- 
master  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  No ;  I  do  not.     As  far  as  I  know,  I  have  never  seen  him. 

Mr.  RaxkijV.  Before  you  get  to  that,  may  I  ask  you  if  you  are  a 
member  of  a  church  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  am.     I  have  been  an  Episcopalian  all  my  life. 

Mr.  Rankix.  Is  your  wife  a  member  of  a  church  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  JSIy  wife  is  a  member  of  the  Society  of  Friends. 

Mr.  Rankix.  That  is  what  we  call  the  Quaker  Church,  is  it  not  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  That  is  correct.  It  isn't  a  church  exactly ;  it  is  a  society, 
a  religious  society. 

Mr.  Raxkix.  a  religious  society  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  It  is,  indeed. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Mr.  Hiss,  where  were  you  residing  in  1935? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Mr.  Stripling,  I  am  afraid  I  would  have  to  consult  copies 
of  old  leases  and  things. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Did  you  ever  live  in  Georgetown  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  have  lived  in  Georgetown  most  of  the  time  I  have  been 
in  Washington. 


650  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  live  on  P  Street  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  owned  a  house  on  P  Street  the  last  few  years  I  was  in- 
Washinglon.     That  was  the  only  time  I  ever  owned  property  in  Wash- 
ington.    I  was  a  renter  before  that. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  would  like  to  refer  to  the  testimony  Mr.  Chambers 
gave  on  Monday  and  read  it  to  the  witness : 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  you  left  the  Communist  Party  in  1937,  did  you  approach 
any  of  these  seven  to  break  with  you? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No.  The  only  one  of  those  people  who  I  approached  was  Alger 
Hiss.  I  went  to  Hiss'  home  in  the  evening  at  what  I  considered  considerable 
risk  to  myself  and  found  Mr.  Hiss  at  home.  Mrs.  Hiss  was  also  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mrs.  Alger  Hiss? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Mrs.  Alger  Hiss.  Mrs.  Donald  Hiss,  I  believe,  is  not.  Mrs. 
Hiss  attempted  \thile  I  was  there  to  make  a  call,  which  I  can  only  presume  was 
to  other  Communists,  but  I  quickly  went  to  the  telephone  and  she  hung  up  and 
Mr.  Hiss  came  in  shortly  afterwai'd  and  we  talked  and  I  tried  to  break  him  away 
from  the  party.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  he  cried  when  we  separated.  When  I  left 
him,  he  absolutely  refused  to  break. 

I\Ir.  McDowell.  He  cried? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes  ;  he  did.     I  was  very  fond  of  Mr.  Hiss. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  He  must  have  given  you  some  reason  why  he  did  not  want  to 
sever  tlie  relationship. 

Mr.  Chambers.  His  reason  was  simply  the  party  line. 

Now,  Mr.  Chairman,  in  the  affidavit  which  Mr.  Chambers  made  to 
the  Federal  authorities  a  few  years  ago,  he  stated  that  he  went  to  Mr. 
Hiss'  home  in  Georgetown.  You  neA^er  recall  any  individual,  whether 
under  the  name  of  Chambers  or  any  other  name-  coming  to  your  home 
in  Georgetown  and  such  a  conversation  as  this? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  certainly  do  not. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  there  is  very  sharp  contradiction 
here  in  the  testimony.  I  certainly  suggest  Mr.  Chambers  be  brought 
back  before  the  committee  and  clear  this  up. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  It  Avould  seem  that  the  testimony  is  diametricallv  op- 
posed and  it  comes  from  two  witnesses  whom  normally  one  would  as- 
sume to  be  perfectly  reliable.  They  have  high  positions  in  American 
business  or  organizational  work.  They  both  appear  to  be  honest. 
They  both  testify  under  oath.  Certainly  the  committee  and  the  coun- 
try must  be  badly  confused  about  why  these  stories  fail  to  jibe  so 
completely. 

I  think  we  have  neglected  to  ask  you,  Mr.  Hiss,  one  other  possible 
clue  to  this  situation.  It  could  be  that  Mr.  Chambers  has  mistaken 
you  for  your  brother.  Would  you  know  if  he  would  testify  under 
oath  whether  your  brother  has  ever  belonged  to  any  subversive  or- 
ganizations or  is  a  Communist? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  am  not  a  qualified  witness  to  testify  absolutely.  I 
would  like  to  say  that  absolutely  in  my  opinion  he  is  not  and  never 
has  been. 

Mr.  IVIuNDT.  So  far  as  you  know. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Is  he  your  younger  brother. 

Mr.  Hiss.  He  is  a  younger  brother. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Do  you  know  he  has  never  belonged  to  any  of  the  or- 
ganizations listed? 

Mr.  Hiss.  So  far  as  I  know  he  has  never  belonged  to  any  organiza- 
tion that  could  be  called  a  Communist  front  organization. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Unless  there  ai'e  other  questions  from  the  committee 
members 


fe 


I 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  651 

Mr.  Rankin.  Have  you  ever  belonged  to  any  Comnnmist  front  or- 
ganizations^ 

Mr.  Hiss.  No,  Mr.  Rankin.  As  I  testified  at  the  beginning  of  my 
testimony,  I  have  not. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  are  not  a  member  of  tlie  Soutliern  Conference 
for  Human  Welfare,  then  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  No  ;  I  am  not. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  ]\Ir.  Nixon  ? 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  in  justice  to  both  of  these  wit- 
nesses and  in  order  to  avoid  what  might  be  a  useless  appearance  on 
the  part  of  Mr.  Chambers,  when  arrangements  are  made  for  his  being 
here,  that  the  witnesses  be  allowed  to  confront  each  other  so  that  any 
possibility  of  a  mistake  in  identity  may  be  cleared  up.  It  may  be 
that  Mr.  Chambers'  appearance  has  changed  through  the  years  but 
it  is  quite  apparent  that  Mr.  Hiss  has  not  put  on  much  weight.  He 
must  have  been  very  thin  before  if  he  did. 

I  think  if  there  is  mistaken  identity  on  Mr.  Chambers'  part  he  will 
be  able  to  recall  it  when  he  confronts  Mr.  Hiss. 

Mr.  Stripling.  JNIr.  Chairman,  may  I  ask  a  few  questions  here? 
I  have  a  list  of  people  here  I  would  like  to  ask  the  witness  if  he  is 
acquainted  with. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Surely. 

Mr.  Stripling.  First,  I  would  like  to  go  back  to  your  statement, 
Mr.  Hiss,  in  which  you  referred  to  jouv  friendship  with  Henry 
Collins. 

Mr.  Hiss.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  It  was  at  Henry  Collins'  apartment  in  St.  Matthews 
Court  in  Washington,  D.  C,  that  Mr.  Whittaker  Chambers  testified 
that  the  members  of  this  Conmiunist  apparatus  within  the  Government 
met.  Did  you  ever  go  to  Mr.  Collins'  apartment  in  St.  Matthews' 
Court? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  am  not  sure  I  ever  went  to  any  apartment  he  had  in 
St.  Matthews  Court.  I  have  in  the  course  of  the  years  been  to  a  number 
of  apartments  and  dwelling  houses  where  Mr. -Collins  resided  and 
lie  has  been  to  my  house. 

Mr.  Stripling.  At  any  time  that  you  were  at  Mr.  Collins*  home,  was 
Mr.  Lee  Pressman  present  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  couldn't  be  sure  that  he  wasn't.  He  may  well  have 
been. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  Mr.  Nathan  Witt  present  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  my  recollection. 

Mr.  Stru'Ling.  Was  Mr.  Harold  Ware  present? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  my  recollection. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  believe  you  testified  you  didn't  know  Victor  Perlo. 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  don't  believe  I  know  Victor  Perlo. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  John  Abt  present  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  recollection. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  Charles  Kramer  present? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Again  not  to  the  best  of  my  recollection.  Certainly  not 
in  recent  years. 

Mr.  Stripling.  We  are  not  referring  to  recent  years.  We  are  re- 
ferring back  to  the  period  1934  through  1037. 

Mr.  Hiss.  To  the  best  of  my  recollection  I  do  not  recall  the  men 
I  have  already  testified  about  in  answer  to  your  questions  being  present. 


652  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Hiss,  did  you  testify  earlier  that  you  did  or  did 
not  know  Mr.  Ware? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  hadn't  been  asked  the  question.  I  did  know  Mr.  Ware 
while  I  was  in  the  Department  of  Agriculture.  My  recollection  is 
that  he  was  an  agricultural  specialist  and  I  think  he  had  been  a  member 
of  an  unofficial  mission  according  to  my  recollection  that  went  to 
Russia  in  connection  with  studying  large-scale  wheat  farming.  My 
recollection  is  he  came  into  my  offices  in  the  Department  of  Agriculture, 
as  many  callers  did,  on  several  occasions.  I  do  remember  hearing  of 
a  wheat  mission  which  was  studying  large-scale  wheat  farming  with 
combines  and  tractors  and  things  of  that  sort,  and  I  think  I  remember 
Mr.  Harold  Ware  in  that  connection. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Your  testimony  in  effect  is  that  your  acquaintance  with 
Mr.  Ware  w^as  only  casual  in  the  course  of  your  employment. 

Mr.  Hiss.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  not  otherwise. 

Mr.  Hiss.  And  not  otherwise. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  were  very  closely  associated  with  Mr.  Pressman 
at  the  time  you  were  both  with  the  AAA ;  is  that  right  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  W^e  had  the  same  status,  that  of  assistant  general  counsel. 
We  were  the  two  assistant  general  counsels,  as  I  recall  it. 

Mr.  Stktpling.  Were  certain  members  of  the  staff  of  AAA  removed 
by  Jerome  Frank  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  don't  recall  Mr.  Pressman  resigning  from  the 
AAA? 

Mr.  Hiss.  ^lay  I  ask  you  a  question?  Perhaps  you  are  thinking 
some  of  them  w^ere  removed  by  Secretary  Wallace  and  not  by  Mr. 
Frank.     Mr.  Frank  was  one  of  those  removed. 

Mr,  Stripling.  They  were  removed.     Is  that  correct  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  'on't  know  the  details.  I  believe  they  were  asked  to 
resign.  I  don't  think  they  had  to  be  removed.  I  think  the  mere 
request  for  their  resignation  was  all  that  was  necessary. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Who  requested  their  resignation  ? 

]Mr.  Hiss.  My  understanding  is  it  was  the  Secretary  of  Agriculture, 
who  was  then  Mr.  Henry  A.  Wallace. 

Mr.  Rankin.  What  year  was  that? 

Mr.  Hiss.  1934, 1  would  guess,  and  1935,  I  am  not  absolutely  sure. 
Maybe  Mr.  Stripling  knows  the  dates. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Why  did  Secretary  Wallace  ask  them  to  resign? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  can  only  speak  from  hearsay  and  my  recollection  of 
various  events  that  occurred  there  with  which  I  am  personally  familiar. 
My  own  experience  with  that  situation  began  when  Mr.  Chester  Davis, 
who  was  then  the  Administrator — he  had  succeeded  Mr.  George  Peek — 
of  the  AAA  called  me  into  his  office.  He  was  in  a  high  state  of  per- 
turbation and  he  said : 

"Alger,  did  you  approve  this  opinion  about  distribution  of  benefit 
payments  under  the  cotton  contracts?" 

i  said,  "Yes,  Chester;  I  did." 

He  said,  "How  could  you?     It  is  a  dishonest  opinion." 

And  I  said,  "Chester,  if  you  thiuk  any  legal  opinion  I  have  approved 
is  dishonest,  I  am  no  longer  your  lawyer,  I  resign ;  I  cannot  serve  any 
client  wlio  does  not  have  confidence  in  me." 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  653 

He  immediately  said,  "Oh,  I  don't  mean  that,"  and  that  he  had  con- 
fidence in  me.     I  refused  at  that  time  to  withdraw  my  resignation. 

In  the  course  of  that  day  an  announcement  was  made  that  Secretary 
Wallace  had  asked  for  the  resignation.  My  resignation  was  never 
asked  for.  He  asked  for  the  resignation  of  certain  members  of  the 
staff  of  the  Agricultural  Adjustment  Administration.  I  think  Mr. 
Frank  was  one  of  them.  I  believe  Mr.  Gardner  Jaclison  was  one  of 
them.  I  don't  recall  the  details,  but  the  three  or  fi,ur  men  whom  I 
knew— one  of  them  was  my  chief,  Mr.  Frank,  whom  I  knew  very  well — 
and  it  was  my  understanding  that  it  was  not  really  over  a  question  of 
law  because  subsequently  Mr.  Chester  Davis  apologized  for  calling  it  a 
dishonest  opinion  and  said  he  did  not  question  my  integrity. 

I  think  it  was  the  culmination  to  a  long  period  of  disagreement  on 
substantive  political  issues  between  Mr.  Frank  and  some  of  his  staff 
and  Mr.  Chester  Davis,  the  Administrator. 

Mr.  Stripling.  ]Mr.  Hiss,  I  have  a  list  of  names  here  and  I  am 
going  to  ask  you  if  you  are  acquainted  with  them.  The  first  is  John 
J.  Abt. 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  am  acquainted  with  Mr.  Abt  as  I  testified  at  the  be- 
ginning of  my  statement.  I  met  INIr.  Abt  first  in  the  Legal  Division 
of  the  Agricultural  Adjustment  Administration.  We  were  both  em- 
ployed in  that  office. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  an  individual  by  the  name  of  Solomon 
Adler? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  do  not. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Norman  Bursler,  B-u-r-s-1-e-r? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Would  you  spell  that  again  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Norman  Bursler,  B-u-r-s-1-e-r. 

Mr.  Hiss.  No  ;  I  don't  think  I  have  ever  heard  of  him. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Frank  V.  Coe,  C-o-e  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  have  known  a  Mr.  Coe  in  Government  service.  Could 
you  identify  him  ?     I  don't  remember  the  first  name. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  the  Treasury  Department,  Division  of  Monetary 
Research,  on  June  17.  1946,  a  position  with  the  Monetary  Fund. 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  know  that  Mr.  Coe. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  well  do  you  know  Mr.  Coe  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  have  only  known  him  officially  while  I  was  in  the  De- 
partment of  State.  I  have  also  known  him  since  he  has  been  with 
the  International  Fund ;  or  is  it  the  bank? 

Mr.  Stripling.  International  Fund. 

Mr.  Hiss.  Since  he  has  been  with  the  International  Monetary  I  und 
because  I  have  been  interested  in  all  phases  of  United  Nations  activities, 
I  do  know  Mr.  Coe. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  Icnow  Mr.  Lauchlin  Currie  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  know  Lauchlin  Currie  very  well  and  have  a  high  regard 
for  him. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  May  I  ask,  since  you  are  qualifying  your  relationships, 
do  you  have  a  high  regard  for  Lee  Pressman? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  knew  Pressman  first  at  law  school  and  I  have  seen  very 
little  of  him  recently.  I  liked  him  and  admired  him  as  a  law  student, 
and  knew  him  and  admired  him  as  a  fellow  lawyer  in  the  Agricultural 
Adjustment  Administration. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Edward  J.  Fitzgerald  ? 


654  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Harold  Glasser,  G-1-a-s-s-e-r? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  know  Mr,  Glasser.  He  was  an  official  of  the  Treasury 
when  I  knew  him  and  I  was  in  the  State  Department  and  knew  him 
officially,  and  I  think  only  officially. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Sonia  S.  Gold,  G-o-l-d? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  think  not. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mrs.  William  Gold  or  Mrs.  Bela  Gold? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  recollection. 

Mr.  Stripling.  She  was  secretary  to  Harry  Dexter  White. 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  knew  Mr.  White  and  may  have  met  Mrs.  Gold  in  going 
into  his  office  if  she  was  his  secretary.    I  don't  recall. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  yon  know  William  J.  Gold? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Jacob  Golos  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  No ;  definitely  not. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Joseph  B.  Gregg — G-r-e-g-g? 

Mr.  Hiss.  There  was  a  Joe  Gray  in  the  State  Department. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Resigned  from  the  Department  of  State  April  1,. 
1946. 

Mr.  Hiss.  Was  this  the  Joe  Gray 

Mr.  Stripling.  That  is  spelled  G-r-e-g-g. 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  thought  you  meant  G-r-a-y,  excuse  me.  Excuse  me  for 
dragging  the  name  in. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Michael  Greenberg  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  did  know  a  Michael  Greenberg.  He,  according  to  the 
best  of  my  recollection,  was  an  assistant  to  Mr,  Carrie  at  the  time  I 
knew  him. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  he  in  the  Department  of  State  at  any  time? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  so  far  as  I  know. 

Mr.  Stripling.  According  to  the  Civil  Service  records,  Michael 
Greenberg  was  separated  for  reduction  in  force  from  the  Department 
of  State  June  15,  1916.  He  resided  at  '2700  Eighth  Street  South, 
Arlington,  Va.    Do  you  know  that  Michael  Greenberg? 

Mr,  Hiss,  I  never  went  to  his  house,  so  the  address  doesn't  help  me, 

jSIr,  Stripling,  It  is  done  for  the  purpose  of  identification. 

Mv.  Hiss.  I  did  know  a  Michael  Greenberg  as  a  State  Department 
official.  I  remember  quite  well  a  yoinig  assistant,  I  think,  to  Mr,  Currie, 
who  was  a  specialist  on  the  Far  East, 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Maurice  Halperin? 

Mr.  Hiss,  I  do  not,  to  the  best  of  my  knoAvledge. 

Mr,  Stripling,  Do  you  know  an  individual  by  the  name  of  Julius 
J,  Joseph  ? 

Mr,  Hiss,  Not  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge, 

Mr,  Stripling,  Charles  Kramer  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  do,  and  I  have  already  referred  to  Kramer  as  an  official 
of  the  Department  of  Agriculture  in  a  different  office.  He  was  not  a 
lawyer,    I  knew  him  officially, 

Mr,  Stripling,  When  did  you  last  see  Charles  Kramer? 

Mr,  Hiss,  I  couldn't  be  sure,  I  have  probably  seen  him  on  the 
street.    He  is  a  rather  distinctive  looking  person.    Do  you  know  him? 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  know  him. 

Mr.  Hiss.  He  has  reddish  hair,  very  distinctive.  I  think  I  recall 
having  seen  him,  though  not  to  talk  to,  in  Washington  sometime 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  655 

ill  the  last  couple  of  years.     I  don't  think  I  have  seen  him  to  talk 
to  since  I  left  the  Department  of  Agriculture. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  an  individual  named  Irving  Kaplan? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  1113^  knowledge. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Duncan  C.  Lee? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Harry  Magdoff — M-a-g-d-o-f-f  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Robert  T.  Miller  ? 

]Mr.  Hiss.  Would  you  identify  him  ?  There  was  a  Mr.  Miller  at  the 
Department  of  State  whom  I  did  know  officially. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Resigned  from  the  Department  of  State  on  Decem- 
ber 13,  1946. 

Mr.  Hiss.  Was  he  an  information  officer?  An  information  spe- 
cialist ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  don't  have  that  information. 

Mr.  Hiss.  According  to  my  recollection,  there  was  a  Mr.  Miller  in 
the  Department  of  State  who  was  what  was  known  as  an  information 
officer,  and  I  knew  him  officially  in  the  Department  of  State,  if  that  is 
the  same  individual. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Willard  Z.  Park? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge. 

i\Ir.  Stripling.  Victor  Perlo? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  have  already  said  I  don't  believe  I  know  Mr..  Perlo. 
I  noticed  his  name  in  Mr.  Chambers'  testimony.  May  I  say,  Mr. 
Stripling,  that  I  have  been  in  Washington  about  14  or  15  years. 
I  have  met  casually  a  great  many  people.  I  am  testifying  to  the  best 
of  my  recollection. 

Mr.  Stripling.  The  committee  wants  to  know  whether  or  not  you 
know  these  people.  We  are  not  interested  in  whether  or  not  you  have 
just  met  them. 

Mildred  Price? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Bernard's.  Redmont — R-e-d-m-o-n-t? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Stripling.  William  W.  Remington? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Allan  —  A-1-l-a-n  —  R.  Rosenberg  —  R-o-s-e-n- 
b-e-r-g? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Abraham  B.  Silverman — S-i-1-v-e-r-m-a-n? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  why  Mr.  Silvermaster  would  refuse 
to  answer  the  question  when  he  was  asked  whether  he  knew  Alger 
Hiss,  he  replied,  "I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  grounds 
that  any  answer  I  may  give  to  this  question  may  be  self-incrimi- 
nating" ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  certainly  do  not. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  William  H.  Taylor,  T-a-y-1-o-r? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge.  Can  you  identify  him  ? 
Taylor  is  a  very  familiar  name. 


656  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Strtplincj.  Mr.  Taylor  was  with  the  Treasury  Department, 
resigned  December  14, 1946,  to  accept  a  position  with  the  International 
Monetary  Fund. 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  think  I  know  that  Mr.  Taylor.  Have  you  seen  him  ? 
Do  you  know  what  he  looks  like? 

Mr.  Stripling.  No;  I  don't. 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  think  I  did  know  him  officially. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Helen  B.  Tenney,  T-e-n-n-e-y  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  knovc  William  L.  Ullman,  U-1-l-m-a-n? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Donald  N.  Wheeler? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  /Stripling.  Harry  D.  White  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  do  know'Mr.  Harry  D.  White. 

Mr.  Rankin.  But  you  don't  know  Mr.  Remington? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  do  not. 

Mr.  Stripling.  That  is  all  the  c|uestions  I  have  at  this  time,  Mr. 
Chairman. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  ]NIr.  Hiss,  you  have  gone  into  some  detail  concerning 
your  work  and  responsibilities  in  the  Department  of  Agriculture.  I 
would  like  to  ask  you  a  few  questions  concerning  your  work  and  re- 
sponsibilities while  working  for  the  Department  of  State. 

Mr.  Hiss.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Did  you  participate  in  the  Yalta  Conference? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  did,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Did  you  draft  or  participate  in  the  drafting  of  parts 
of  the  Yalta  agreement? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  think  it  is  accurate  and  not  an  immodest  statement  to 
say  that  I  did  to  some  extent,  yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Did  you  participate  in  those  parts  which  gave  Russia 
three  votes  in  the  Assembly? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  was  present  at  the  Conference  and  am  familiar  with 
some  of  the  facts  involved  in  that  particular  arrangement. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  would  say  you  did  participate  in  the  formation 
of  that  ])art  of  the  agi'eement  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  had  nothing  to  do  Avith  the  decision  that  these  votes 
be  granted.     I  opposed  them. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  opposed  them? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  did. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Did  you  participate — I  am  glad  to  hear  that 

Mr.  Rankin.  Let's  get  that  answ^er  straight.  You  opposed  the 
Yalta  agreement? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  opposed  the  particular  point  that  the  chairman  referred 
to  by  which  the  United  States  agreed  to  sui)pftrt  Soviet  Russia's 
application  for  votes  in  the  Assembly  and  membership  in  the  United 
Nations  Organization  to  Byelo  Russia  and  the  Ukraine.  I  did  not 
oppose  the  Yalta  agreement  as  a  whole— quite  the  contrary.  I  still 
think  the  political  agreement  was  a  very  valuable  agreement  for  the 
United  States. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  congratulate  you  on  your  opposition  to  that  particu- 
lar section.  Did  you  participate  in  the  ]iortion  of  the  Yalta  agree- 
ment which  gave  Russia  control  of  the  chief  Manchurian  railway? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  657 

Mr.  Hi!S8.  That  was  not  part  of  the  political  agreement.  I  knew 
nothing  of  that  until  many  months  later.  That  was  in  the  military 
talks  in  which  I  did  not  participate. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  As  an  employee  in  the  Department  of  State,  did  you 
have  anything  to  do  with  the  departmental  policy  which  was  pro- 
claimed on  December  15,  1945,  before  General  Marshall  went  out  to 
Chma? 

Mr.  Hiss.  No;  I  did  not.  I  had  been  connected  with  far  eastern 
affairs,  before,  but  about  February  1944,  I  was  assigned  to  United 
Nations  work  and  specialized  entirely  in  that  field  thereafter. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Referring  especially  to  that  portion  of  the  Secretary's 
proclamation  which  said  that  we  must  have  peace  and  unity  with  the 
Communists  in  China. 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  was  not  consulted  on  that.  It  was  not  in  my  area  of 
activity  at  all. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Wlio  was  Secretary  of  State  at  that  time  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  In  1945, 1  think  Mr.  Byrnes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  The  Yalta  agreement,  which  wrote  out,  according  to 
my  information,  quite  well  the  text  of  the  United  Nations  charter  deal- 
ing w^ith  the  veto  provisions — did  you  participate  in  the  drawing  up 
of  those  veto  provisions? 

Mr.  Hiss.  My  best  recollection  without  consulting  the  actual  records 
is  that  the  text  of  what  is  now  article  27  of  the  Charter  was  drafted 
in  the  Department  of  State  in  the  early  winter  of  1944  before  the  Yalta 
ConlereiKe,  as^  part  of  tlie  negotiations  preceding  that  Confertnice,  was 
dispatched  by  the  President  of  the  United  States  to  the  Prime  Minister 
of  Great  Britain  and  to  Marshal  Stalin  for  their  agreement  and  repre- 
sented the  proposal  made  by  the  United  States  at  the  Yalta  Conference 
and  was  accepted  by  the  other  two  after  some  discussion.  I  did  par- 
ticipate in  the  Department  of  State  in  the  drafting  of  the  messages  I 
have  referred  to  that  President  Roosevelt  sent  in,  I  think,  December 
1944  prior  to  the  Yalta  Conference. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Those  were  the  messages  which  described  the  veto 
provisions  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  My  recollection  is  they  set  out  an  actual  suggested  draft 
and  that  the  variations  between  that  draft  and  the  present  language 
of  the  Charter  is  immaterial. 

Mr.  MuNT.  What  I  was  trying  to  get  to  is  whether  you  participated 
in  the  creation  of  the  draft. 

Mv.  Hiss.  I  did  participate  in  the  creation  of  the  draft  that  was  sent 
by  President  Roosevelt  to  Churchill  and  Stalin,  which  was  the  draft 
actually  adopted  at  Yalta  and  actually  adopted  at  San  Francisco. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Did  you  lend  your  influence  in  the  direction  of  having 
the  veto  provision  included  in  that  draft  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  did.  That  was  practically  the  unanimous  position  of 
the  American  Government,  I  might  add. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Do  you  have  a  question,  Mr.  McDowell? 

Mr.  McDow^ELL.  Mr.  Hiss,  do  you  feel  you  have  had  a  free  and  fair 
and  proper  hearing  this  morning? 

Mr.  Hiss.  Mr.  McDowell,  I  think  I  have  been  treated  with  great  con- 
sideration by  this  committee.  I  am  not  happy  that  I  didn't  have  a 
chance  to  meet  with  the  committee  privately  before  there  was  such  a 

80408 — i8 — —11 


658  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

great  public  press  display  of  what  I  consider  completely  unfounded 
charges  against  me.     Denials  do  not  always  catch  up  with  charges. 

Mr.  McI)o\\t:ll.  I  am  very  familiar  with  that,  but  I  think  they  will 
in  your  case,  Mr.  Hiss,  because  you  have  the  same  radio  facilities,  the 
same  news-reel  facilities,  and  the  same  press  facilities  as  the  man  who 
made  the  charges.  You  will  appreciate  that  this  committee  has  no 
way  of  reading  into  a  witness'  mind  what  he  is  going  to  say.  Some- 
times we  are  greatly  surprised,  too,  in  reading  over  a  list  of  people 
whom  we  have  reason  to  suspect  are  Communists  or  espionage  agents, 
there  is  brought  in  a  name  which  many  Americans,  including  members 
of  this  committee,  hold  in  high  repute. 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  would  rather  not  comment  on  that  particular  point.  I 
don't  think  I  am  in  the  best  frame  of  mind  to  comment  on  that  right 
now. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  think  that  is  probably  correct.  Mr.  Nixon,  do  you 
have  further  questions  ? 

Mr.  Nixon.  From  your  experience  in  the  State  Department,  is  it 
your  opinion  that  every  effort  should  be  made  by  the  investigative 
authorities  of  the  Government  and  by  the  connnittees  of  Congress  to 
look  into  the  alleged  subversive  activities  of  Communists  in  the  United 
States?    - 

Mr.  Hiss.  Was  j^our  question  "every  effort"?  Every  effort  which 
is  compatible  with  the  protection  of  the  reputations  of  innocent  per- 
sons, I  certainly  do. 

Mr.  NixON.  In  other  words,  you  feel  then  that  there  is  definite 
danger  to  the  security  of  the  United  States  from  Communist  under- 
ground activities  which  requires  investigation? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  think  it  would  be  very  unwise  for  the  Government  to 
employ  anyone  in  whose  loyalty  it  did  not  have  complete  confidence, 
and  it  should  establish  its  judgment  as  carefully  and  reliably  as 
possible. 

Mr.  NixoN".  For  that  reason  since  it  is  essential  that  the  Government 
have  complete  confidence  in  its  employees  that  investigation — and  I 
am  referring  now  to  Communist  activities  because  that  is  what  both 
Senate  and  House  committees  are  interested  in — the  investigation  of 
Communist  activities,  having  in  mind  the  rights  of  individuals  con- 
cerned, as  you  have  indicated,  should  proceed  so  that  we  can  protect 
the  national  security  from  the  activities  of  American  Communists  who 
will  be  serving  the  interests  of  a  foreign  government. 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  do.  I  think  some  distinction  should  be  made  with  re- 
spect to  so-called  sensitive  positions  and  other  types  of  positions,  but  I 
am  not  an  expert  on  that  type  of  personnel  problem.  It  is  just  my 
offhand  impression. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Are  there  any  positions  in  Government  where  you  feel 
that  Communists  should  be  employed  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  As  I  say,  I  am  not  an  expert  on  that  question.  Whether 
someone  who  is  sweeping  the  halls  or  a  charwoman — I  really  don't 
know. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  If  you  were  in  charge 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  wouldn't  make  the  same  kind  of  investigation,  I  would 
say  that. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  If  you  were  in  charge  of  an  executive  agency  would  you 
employ  a  Communist  as  a  charwoman  if  you  knew  it  ? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  659 

Mr.  Hiss.  That  is  what  President  Roosevelt  used  to  call  an  "iffy" 
question. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Do  you  want  to  give  an  "iffy"  answer? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  don't  think  I  shall  ever  have  that  decision  to  face.  I 
think,  trying  to  answer  your  question  very  responsibly,  I  would  not. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Rankin. 

Mr.  Rankin.  I  have  two  questions.  I  believe  you  said  you  were 
recommended  for  your  present  position  by  Mr.  John  Foster  Dulles. 
That  is  correct,  isn't  it  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Now,  Mr.  Muiidt  questioned  you  about  your  attitude 
on  the  veto  and  the  United  Nations  Charter. 

Mr.  Hiss.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Rankin.  And  you  say  you  favored  it  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  did. 

Mr.  Rankin.  Now,  whose  interest  did  you  have  at  heart  and  in  mind 
at  the  time,  the  interest  of  the  United  States  or  the  interest  of  a  foreign 
power  ? 

Mr.  Hiss.  The  interest  of  the  United  States  and  of  the  United  Na- 
tions Organization.  I  think  without  the  veto  there  would  have  been 
no  United  Nations  Organization.  I  think  it  was  highly  desirable  to 
the  interest  of  the  United  States  that  there  be  such  an  organization  in 
which  the  United  States  participated. 

Mr.  Rankin.  You  think  that  veto  is  in  the  interest  of  the  United 
States? 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  think,  Mr,  Rankin,  that  various  changes  and  modifica- 
tions could  helpfully  and  desirably  be  made  in  the  veto  provision.  I 
think  on  the  question  of  enforcement  in  particular,  on  the  calling  out 
of  contingents  of  armed  forces  supplied  by  member  states,  that  in  the 
present  state  of  the  world  that  each  of  the  major  powers,  including 
particularly  the  United  States,  must  reserve  its  own  judgment  as  to 
whether  it  thinks  its  own  troops  should  move  in  a  given  case. 

Mr.  Rankin.  That  is  all. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  The  Chair  has  one  additional  question.  I  think  counsel 
neglected  to  ask  you,  Mr.  Hiss. 

During  the  time  you  were  employed  with  the  State  Department, 
before  or  since,  did  you  ever  see  or  meet  Carl  Alclo  Marzani  ?  , 

Mr.  Hiss.  I  did  not. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  The  Chair  wishes  to  express  the  appreciation  of  the 
committee  for  your  very  cooperative  attitude,  for  your  forthright 
statements,  and  for  the  fact  that  you  were  first  among  those  whose' 
names  were  mentioned  by  various  witnesses  to  communicate  with  us 
asking  for  an  opportunity  to  deny  the  charges. 

Mr.  Rankin.  And  another  thing.  I  want  to  congratulate  the  wit- 
ness that  he  didn'tt  refuse  to  answer  the  questions  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  incriminate  him,  and  he  didn't  bring  a  lawyer  here  to  tell  him 
what  to  say. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  The  committee  will  meet  in  executive  session  at  3 
o'clock  this  afternoon. 

("Whereupon,  at  12  :  35  p.  m.,  the  committee  adjourned.) 


HEARINGS  RECtARDING  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  IN 
THE  UNITED  STATES  GOVERNMENT 


SATURDAY,   AUGUST  7,    1948 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 

Special  Subcommittee  of  the 
Committee  on  Un-American  Activities, 

New  York,  N.  Y. 

executive  session  ^ 

The  subcommittee  met,  pursuant  to  call,  at  10 :  30  o'clock  in  room 
101,  Federal  Courthouse,  2  Foley  Square,  New  York,  N.  Y.,  Hon. 
Richard  M.  Nixon  presiding. 

Committee  members  present :  Representatives  Richard  M.  Nixon, 
John  McDowell,  and  F.  Edward  Hebert. 

Staff  members  present:  Robert  E.  Stripling,  chief  investigator; 
Louis  J.  Russell,  Donald  P.  Appell,  and  C.  E.  McKillips,  investiga- 
tore,  and  Benjamin  Mandel,  director  of  research  for  the  committee. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Let  the  record  show  that  this  is  an  executive  session 
of  a  subcommittee  appointed  by  the  acting  chairman  of  the  Un- 
American  Activities  Committee,  Karl  Mundt,  on  August  5. 

Mr.  Stripling,  will  you  call  the  first  witness? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  the  record  should  show  those 
present. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Let  the  record  show  Mr.  McDowell,  Mr.  Hebert,  and 
Mr.  Nixon  are  present. 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  the  testimony  you  are  about  to  give  will  be 
the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you 
God? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  do. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Be  seated. 

TESTIMONY  OP  WHITTAKER  CHAMBERS 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Chambers,  you  are  aware  of  the  fact  that  Mr. 
Alger  Hiss  appeared  before  this  committee,  before  the  Un-American 
Activities  Committee,  in  public  session  and  swore  that  the  testimony 
which  had  been  given  by  you  under  oath  before  this  committee  was 
false.  The  committee  is  now  interested  in  questioning  you  further 
concerning  your  alleged  acquaintanceship  with  Mr.  Alger  Hiss  so 
that  we  can  determine  what  course  of  action  should  be  followed  in 
this  matter  in  the  future. 

Mr.  Hiss  in  his  testimony  was  asked  on  several  occasions  whether 
or  not  he  had  ever  known  or  knew  a  man  by  the  name  of  Whittaker 
Chambers.    In  each  instance  he  categorically  said  "No." 

At  what  period  did  you  know  Mr.  Hiss  ?    What  time  ? 

2  Testimony  taken  in  executive  session  and  released  during  public  hearing,  August  25, 

661 


662  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  knew  Mr.  Hiss,  roughly,  between  the  years  1935 
to  1937. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  know  him  as  Mr.  Alger  Hiss  ? 
Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  you  happen  to  see  Mr.  Hiss'  pictures  in  the  news- 
papers as  a  result  of  these  recent  hearings  ? 
Mr.  Chambers.  Yes;  I  did. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Was  that  the  man  you  knew  as  Alger  Hiss  ? 
Mr.  Chambers.  Yes;  that  is  the  man. 
Mr.  Nixon.  You  are  certain  of  that  ? 
Mr.  Chambers.  I  am  completely  certain. 

Mr,  Nixon.  During  the  time  that  you  knew  Mr.  Hiss,  did  he  know 
you  as  Whittaker  Chambers? 
Mr-  Chambers.  No,  he  did  not. 
Mr.  Nixon.  By  what  name  did  he  know  you? 
Mr.  Chambers.  He  knew  me  by  the  party  name  of  Carl, 
Mr.  Nixon,  Dicl  he  ever  question  the  fact  that  he  did  not  know  your 
last  name? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Not  to  me. 
Mr.  Nixon.  Why  not? 

Mr,  Chambers.  Because  in  the  underground  Communist  Party  the 
principle  of  organization  is  that  functionaries  and  heads  of  the 
group,  in  other  words,  shall  not  be  known  by  their  right  names  but 
by  pseudonyms  or  party  names. 

Mr.  NixoN.  Were  you  a  party  functionary? 
Mr.  Chambers.  I  was  a  functionary, 

Mr.  NixoN.  This  entire  group  with  which  you  worked  in  Washing- 
ton did  not  know  you  by  your  real  name? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No  member  of  that  group  knew  me  by  my  real  name. 
Mr,  NixON.  All  knew  you  as  Carl? 
Mr.  Chambers.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Nixon,  No  member  of  that  group  ever  inquired  of  you  as  to 
vour  real  name? 

Mr,  Chambers.  To  have  questioned  me  would  have  been  a  breach  of 
party  discipline,  Communist  Party  discipline. 

Mr.  Nixon.  I  understood  you  to  say  that  Mr.  Hiss  was  a  member 
of  the  party. 

Mr.  Chambers.  Mr.  Hiss  was  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party. 
Mr,  NixoN.  How  do  you  know  that  ? 
Mr.  Chambers,  I  was  told  by  Mr,  Peters, 
Mr.  Nixon.  You  were  told  that  by  Mr.  Peters  ? 
Mr.  Chambers.  Yes, 

Mr.  Nixon.  On  what  facts  did  Mr.  Peters  give  you  ? 
Mr.  Chambers.  Mr.  Peters  was  the  head  of  the  entire  underground, 
as  far  as  I  knoAv. 

Mr.  Nixon.  The  entire  underground  of  the  Commmiist  Party  ? 
Mr.  Chambers.  Of  the  Communist  Party  in  the  United  States, 
Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  have  any  other  evidence,  any  factual  evidence, 
to  bear  out  your  claim  that  Mr.  Hiss  was  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Nothing  beyond  the  fact  that  he  submitted  himself 
for  the  2  or  3  years  that  1  knew  him  as  a  dedicated  and  disciplined 
Communist, 

Mr,  Nixon,  Did  you  obtain  his  party  dues  from  him  ? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  663 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes,  I  did. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Over  what  period  of  time? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Two  or  three  years,  as  long  as  I  knew  him. 

Mr.  Nixox.  Party  dues  from  him  and  his  wife  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  assume  his  wife's  dues  were  there ;  I  understood 
it  to  be. 

Mr.  Nixox.  You  understood  it  to  be? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Mr.  Hiss  would  simply  give  me  an  envelope  con- 
taining party  dues  which  I  transferred  to  Peters.  I  didn't  handle 
the  money. 

Mr.  Nixon.  How  often  'i 

Mr.  Chambers.  Once  a  month. 

Mr.  Nixon.  What  did  he  say? 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  Avas  one  point  it  wasn't  necessary  to  say  any- 
thing.    At  first  he  said,  "Here  are  my  dues." 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  once  a  month  over  a  period  of  2  years,  approxi- 
mately, he  gave  you  an  envelope  which  contained  the  dues? 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  NixoN.  What  did  you  do  with  that  envelope  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  gave  it  to  Peters. 

Mr.  Nixon.  In  New  York  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Or  Washington. 

Mr.  Nixon.  This  envelope  contained  dues  of  Hiss  and  other  mem- 
bers of  the  group  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Only  Hiss. 

INIr.  Nixon.  You  collected  dues  from  the  other  members  of  the  group 
individually  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  All  dues  were  collected  individually. 

Mr.  Nixon.  I  see.  So  this  money  could  not  have  been  money  from 
anybody  but  Hiss  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Only  from  Hiss. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Couldn't  have  been  giving  you  dues  for  his  wife  and  not 
for  himself  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  suppose  it  is  possible,  but  that  was  certainly  not 
the  understanding. 

Mr.  Nixon.  The  understanding  was  it  was  his  dues? 

Mr.  Chambers.  The  understanding  was  it  was  his  dues.  Not  only 
that,  but  he  was  rather  pious  about  paying  his  dues  promptly. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Is  there  any  other  circumstance  which  would  substan- 
tiate your  allegation  that  he  was  a  member  of  the  party  ?  You  have 
indicated  he  paid  dues,  you  indicated  that  Mr.  Peters,  the  head  of  the 
Communist  underground,  informed  you  he  was  a  member  of  the 
party  before  you  met  him  the  first  time. 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  must  also  interpolate  there  that  all  Communists  in 
the  group  in  which  I  originally  knew  him  accepted  him  as  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Referred  to  him  as  a  member  of  the  party? 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  doesn't  come  up  in  conversation,  but  this  was 
a  Communist  group. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Could  this  have  possibly  been  an  intellectual  study 
group  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  It  was  in  nowise  an  intellectual  study  group.  Its 
primary  function  was  not  that  of  an  intellectual  study  group.  I  cer- 
tainly supplied  some  of  that  intellectual  study  business,  which  was 


664  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

part  of  my  function,  but  its  primary  function  was  to  infiltrate  the 
Government  in  the  interest  of  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Nixon.  At  that  time,  incidentally,  Mr.  Hiss  and  the  other  mem- 
bers of  this  group  who  were  Government  employees  did  not  have  party 
cards  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No  members  of  that  group  to  my  knowledge  ever 
had  party  cards,  nor  do  I  think  members  of  any  such  group  have  party 
cards. 

Mr.  Nixoisr.  The  reason  is 

Mr.  Chambers.  The  reason  is  security,  concealment. 

Mr.  Nixon.  In  other  words,  people  who  are  in  the  Communist  un- 
derground are  in  fact  instructed  to  deny  the  fact  that  they  are  mem- 
bers of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  was  told  by  Peters  that  party  registration  was 
kept  in  Moscow  and  in  some  secret  file  in  the  United  States. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  Mr.  Hiss  have  any  children? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Mr.  Hiss  had  no  children  of  his  own. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Were  there  any  children  living  in  his  home? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Mrs.  Hiss  had  a  son. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  know  the  son's  name? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Timothy  Hobson. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Approximately  how  old  was  he  at  the  time  you  knew 
him  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  It  seems  to  me  he  was  about  10  years  old. 

Mr.  Nixon.  What  did  you  call  him  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Timmie. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  Mr.  Hiss  call  him  Timmie  also  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  think  so. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  he  have  any  other  nickname? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Not  that  I  recall.  He  is  the  son,  to  the  best  of  my 
knowledge,  of  Thayer  Hobson,  who  I  think  is  a  member  of  the  pub- 
lishing house  of  William  Morrow  here  in  New  York. 

Mr.  Nixon.  What  name  did  Mrs.  Hiss  use  in  addressing  Mr.  Hiss? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Usually  "Hilly." 

Mr.  Nixon.  "Hilly"? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Quite  often  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  In  your  presence  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Not  "Alger"? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Not  "Alger." 

Mr.  Nixon.  What  nickname,  if  any.  did  Mr.  Hiss  use  in  addressing 
his  wife? 

Mr.  Chambers.  More  often  "Dilly"  and  sometimes  "Pross."  Her 
name  was  Priscilla.  They  were  commonly  referred  to  as  "Plilly"  and 
"Dilly." 

Mr.  Nixon.  They  were  commonly  referred  to  as  "Hilly"  and  Dilly"? 

Mr.  Chambers.  By  other  members  of  the  group. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  don't  mean  to  indicate  that  was  simply  the  nick- 
names used  by  t'ac  Communist  group? 

Mr.  Cha]mi5::us.  'I  h.s  was  a  family  matter. 

Mr.  Nixon.  In  (^ther  words,  other  friends  and  acquaintances  of  theirs 
would  possibly  have  used  these  names  ? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  665 

Did  you  ever  spend  any  time  in  Hiss'  home? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  you  stay  overnight? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes ;  I  stayed  overnight  for  a  number  of  days. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  mean  from  time  to  time  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  From  time  to  time. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  you  ever  stay  longer  than  1  day? 

]\Ir.  Chambers.  I  have  stayed  there  as  long  as  a  week. 

Mr.  Nixon.  A  week  one  time.  What  would  you  be  doing  during 
that  time  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Most  of  the  time  reading. 

Mr.  Nixon.  What  arrangements  was  made  for  taking  care  of  your 
lodging  at  that  time  ?    Were  you  there  as  a  guest  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  made  that  a  kind  of  informal  headquarters. 

Mr.  Nixon.  I  understand  that,  but  what  was  the  financial  arrange- 
ment ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  There  was  no  financial  arrangement. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  were  a  guest  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Part  of  the  Communist  pattern. 

Mr.  Nixon,  Did  the  Hisses  have  a  cook  ?    Do  you  recall  a  maid  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  As  nearly  as  I  can  remember,  they  had  a  maid  who 
came  in  to  clean,  and  a  cook  who  came  in  to  cook.  I  can't  remembei 
they  had  a  maid  there  all  the  time  or  not.  It  seems  to  me  in  one  or 
two  of  the  houses  they  did. 

In  one  of  the  houses  they  had  a  rather  elderly  Negro  maid  whom 
Mr.  Hiss  used  to  drive  home  in  the  evening. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  don't  recall  the  names  of  the  maids  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No;  I  don't. 

Mr.  NixoN.  Did  the  Hisses  have  any  pets  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  They  had,  I  believe,  a  cocker  spaniel.  I  have  a  bad 
memory  for  dogs,  but  as  nearly  as  I  can  remember  it  was  a  cocker 
spaniel. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  remember  the  dog's  name  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No.  I  remember  they  used  to  take  it  up  to  some 
kennel.    I  think  out  Wisconsin  Avenue. 

Mr.  Nixon.  They  took  it  to  board  it  there  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes.  They  made  one  or  two  vacation  trips  to  the 
Eastern  Shore  of  Maryland. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Thej'  made  some  vacation  trips  to  the  Eastern  Shore 
of  Maryland  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes,  and  at  those  times  the  dog  was  kept  at  the 
kennel. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  state  the  Hisses  had  several  different  houses  when 
you  knew  them  ?     Could  you  describe  any  one  of  those  houses  to  us  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  think  so.  It  seems  to  me  when  I  first  knew  him 
he  was  living  on  28th  Street  in  an  apartment  house.  There  were  two 
almost  identical  apartment  houses.  It  seems  to  me  that  is  a  dead-end 
street  and  this  was  right  at  the  dead  end  and  certainly  it  is  on  the 
right-hand  side  as  you  go  up. 

It  also  seems  to  me  that  apartment  was  on  the  top  floor.  Now,  what 
was  it  like  inside,  the  furniture  ?    I  can't  remember. 

Mr.  Mandel.  What  was  Mr.  Hiss'  library  devoted  to  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Very  nondescript,  as  I  recall. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  recall  what  floor  the  apartment  was  on  ? 


666  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  think  it  was  on  the  top  floor. 

Mr.  Nixon.  The  fourth? 

Mr.  Chambers.  It  was  a  walk-up.     I  think  the  fourth. 

Mr.  Nixon.  It  could  have  been  the  third,  of  course  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  It  might  have  been. 

Mr.  Nixon.  But  you  think  it  was  the  top,  as  well  as  you  can  recall? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  think  it  was  the  top. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Understand,  I  am  not  trying  to  hold  you  to  absolute 
accuracy. 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  am  trying  to  recall. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Was  there  any  special  dish  they  served  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No.  I  think  you  get  here  into  something  else.  Hiss 
is  a  man  of  great  simplicity  and  a  great  gentleness  and  sweetness  of 
character,  and  they  lived  with  extreme  simplicity.  I  had  the  impres- 
sion that  the  furniture  in  that  house  was  kind  of  pulled  together  from 
here  or  there,  maybe  got  it  from  their  mother  or  something  like  that, 
nothing  lavish  about  it  whatsoever,  quite  simple. 

Their  food  was  in  the  same  pattern  and  they  cared  nothing  about 
food.     It  was'not  a  primary  interest  in  their  lives. 

Mr.  Mandel.  Did  Mr.  Hiss  have  any  hobbies  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes;  he  did.  They  both  had  the  same  hobby — 
amateur  ornithologists,  bird  observers.  They  used  to  get  up  early  in 
the  morning  and  go  to  Glen  Echo,  out  the  canal,  to  observe  birds. 

I  recall  once  they  saw,  to  their  great  excitement,  a  prothonotary 
warbler. 

Mr.  McDowell.  A  very  rare  specimen  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  never  saw  one.     I  am  also  fond  of  birds. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  they  have  a  car  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes;  they  did.  When  I  first  knew  them  they  had 
a  car.  Again  I  am  reasonably  sure — I  am  almost  certain — it  was  a 
Ford  and  that  it  was  a  roadster.  It  was  black  and  it  was  very  dilapi- 
dated.    There  is  no  question  about  that. 

I  remember  very  clearly  that  it  had  hand  windshield  wipers.  I 
remember  that  because  I  drove  it  one  rainy  day  and  had  to  work  those 
windshield  wipers  by  hand. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  recall  any  other  car? 

Mr.  Chambers.  It  seems  to  me  in  1936,  probably,  he  got  a  new 
Plymouth. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  recall  its  type  ?  • 

Mr.  Chambers.  It  was  a  sedan,  a  two-seated  car. 

Mr.  Mandel.  What  did  he  do  with  the  old  car  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  The  Communist  Party  had  in  Washington  a  service 
station — that  is,  the  man  in  charge  or  owner  of  this  station  was  a  Com- 
munist— or  it  may  have  been  a  car  lot. 

Mr.  Nixon.  But  the  owner  was  a  Communist  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  The  owner  was  a  Communist.  I  never  knew  who 
this  was  or  where  it  was.  It  was  against  all  the  rules  of  underground 
organization  for  Hiss  to  do  anything  with  his  old  car  but  trade  it  in, 
and  I  think  this  investigation  has  proved  how  right  the  Communists 
are  in  such  matters,  but  Hiss  insisted  that  he  wanted  that  car  turned 
over  to  the  open  p.irtv  so  it  could  be  of  use  to  some  poor  organizer  in 
the  West  or  somewhere. 

Much  against  my  better  judgment  and  much  against  Peters'  better 
judgment,  he  finally  got  us  to  permit  him  to  do  this  thing.     Peters 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  667 

knew  where  this  lot  was  and  he  either  took  Hiss  there,  or  he  gave  Hiss 
the  address  and  Hiss  went  there,  and  to  the  best  of  my  recollection 
of  his  description  of  that  happening,  he  left  the  car  there  and  simply 
went  away  and  the  man  in  charge  of  the  station  took  care  of  the  rest 
of  it  for  iiim.  I  should  think  the  records  of  that  transfer  would  be 
traceable. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Where  was  that? 

Mr.  Chambers.  In  Washington,  D.  C,  I  believe;  certainly  some- 
where in  the  District. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  don't  know^  where  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No  ;  never  asked. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  recall  any  other  cars  besides  those  two? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No,  I  think  he  had  the  Plymouth  when  I  broke 
with  the  whole  business. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  don't  recall  any  other  hobbies  he  had  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  don't  think  he  had  any  other  hobbies. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  they  have  a  piano  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  don't  believe  so.  I  am  reasonably  sure  they 
did  not. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  recall  any  particular  pieces  of  furniture  that 
they  had  ? 

Mv.  Chambers.  The  only  thing  I  recall  was  a  small  leather  cigarette 
box,  leather-covered  cigarette  box,  wdth  gold  tooling  on  it.  It  seems 
to  me  that  box  was  red  leather. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Red  leather  cigarette  box  with  gold  tooling? 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  recall  any  particular  pieces  of  bedroom  furni- 
ture they  had  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  recall  possibly  what  the  silver  pattern  w^as,  if 
any?     Was  it  sterling ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  don't  recall. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  recall  what  kind  of  chinaware  they  used  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No.  I  have  been  thinking  over  these  things  and 
none  of  that  stands  out. 

Mr.  Nixon.  What  kind  of  cocktail  glasses  did  they  have? 

Mr.  Chambers.  We  never  drank  cocktails. 

Mr.  NixON.  Did  they  drink  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  They  did  not  drink.  They  didn't  drink  with  me. 
For  one  thing,  I  was  strictly  forbidden  by  the  Communist  Party  to 
taste  liquor  at  any  time. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  you  didn't  drink? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  never  drank. 

Mr.  Nixon.  As  far  as  you  know,  they  never  drank,  at  least  with  you  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  He  gave  cocktail  parties  in  Government  service. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Could  you  describe  Mr.  Hiss'  physical  appearance 
for  us  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Mr.  Hiss,  I  should  think,  is  about  5  feet  8  or  9, 
slender.     His  eyes  are  wide  apart  and  blue  or  gray, 

Mr.  Nixon.  Blue  or  gray  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  think  they  change. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Sort  of  a  blue-gray  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Blueish  gray,  you  could  say.  In  his  walk,  if  you 
-watch  him  from  behind,  there  is  a  slight  mince  sometime. 


668  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Nixon.  A  slight  mince  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Mince.     Anybody  could  observe. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Does  Mrs.  Hiss  have  any  physical  characteristics? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Mrs.  Hiss  is  a  short,  highly  nervous,  little  woman. 
I  don't,  as  a  matter  of  fact,  recall  the  color  of  her  eyes,  but  she  has  a 
habit  of  blushing  red  when  she  is  excited  or  angry,  fiery  red. 

Mr.  Mandel.  a  picture  of  Hiss  shows  his  hand  cupped  to  his  ear. 

Mr.  ChamberIs.  He  is  deaf  in  one  ear. 

Mr.  NixoN.  Mr.  Hiss  is  deaf  in  one  ear? 

Mr.  Hebert.  Wliich  ear  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  don't  know.  My  voice  is  pitched  very  low  and 
it  is  difficult  for  me  to  talk  and  make  myself  understood. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  he  wear  glasses  at  the  time  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  think  he  wore  glasses  only  for  reading. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  he  tell  you  how  he  became  deaf  in  one  ear  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  don't  recall  that  he  did.  The  only  thing  I  re- 
member he  told  me  was  as  a  small  boy  he  used  to  take  a  little  wagon — 
he  was  a  Baltimore  boy — and  walk  up  to  Druid  Hill  Park,  which  was 
up  that  time  way  beyond  the  civilized  center  of  the  city,  and  fill  up 
bottles  with  spring  water  and  bring  them  back  and  sell  it. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  remember  any  phj^sical  characteristics  of  the 
boy? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Timmie? 

Mr.  Nixon.  Yes. 

Mr.  Chambers.  Timmie  was  a  puny  little  boy,  also  rather  nervous. 

Mr.  Nixon.  This  is  Mrs.  Hiss'  son  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Mrs.  Hiss'  son  by  Thayer  Hobson,  who  I  think  is 
one  of  the  Hobson  cousins,  a  cousin  of  Thornton  Wilder.  It  is  possi- 
ble I  could  be  mistaken  about  that. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  recall  anything  else  about  the  boy?  Do  you 
recall  where  he  went  to  school  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes;  I  do.  I  don't  know  the  name  of  the  school 
he  was  attending  then,  but  they  told  me  that  Thayer  Hobson  was  pay- 
ing for  his  son's  education,  but  they  were  diverting  a  large  part  of 
that  money  to  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Hiss  told  you  that  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  he  say  how  much  he  was  paying  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No  ;  I  don't  know  how  much  he  was  paying. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  he  name  the  Communist  Party  as  the  recipient  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Certainly. 

Mr.  Nixon.  He  might  not  have  said  simply  "the  party"?  Could  it 
have  been  the  Democratic  Party  or  Socialist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Hobson  was  paying  for  the  boy's  education  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes;  and  they  took  him  out  of  a  more  expensive 
school  and  put  him  in  a  less  expensive  school  expressly  for  that  pur- 
pose.    That  is  my  recollection. 

Mr.  Nixon.  When  would  that  have  occurred  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Probably  about  1936. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  they  change  in  the  middle  of  the  year  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  don't  recall.  He  was  a  slightly  effeminate  child. 
I  think  there  was  some  worry  about  him. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  remember  anything  about  his  hands  ? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGL  669 

Mr.  Chambers.  Wliose? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Alger  Hiss'. 

Mr.  Chambers.  He  had  rather  long  delicate  fingers.  I  don't  remem- 
ber anything  special. 

Mr.  Mandel.  How  is  it  he  never  wrote  anything  publicly  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Well,  he  came  into  the  underground  like  so  many 
Communists  did — this  was  a  new  stage  in  the  history  of  American 
Communists. 

Mr.  Mandel.  He  was  never  in  the  open  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  He  was  never  in  the  open  Communist  Party,  came 
in  as  an  underground  Communist. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Did  he  have  any  other  brothers  or  sisters  besides 
Donald'^ 

Mr.  Chambers.  He  had  one  sister,  I  believe,  living  with  her  mother 
in  Baltimore. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Did  he  ever  talk  about  her  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes ;  once  or  twice,  and  mentioned  his  mother.  He 
once  drove  me  past  their  house,  which  as  I  recall,  was  on  or  near 
Tiinden  Street. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  did  the  sister  do  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  don't  think  she  did  anything  besides  live  with 
her  mother.     Whether  he  had  any  more  than  that  I  don't  know. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Yon  know  he  referred  to  at  least  one  sister? 

Mr.  Chambers.  He  did. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Do  you  recall  her  name  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  you  don't  recall  what  the  sister  did  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No  ;  I  don't  think  she  did  anything. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Did  it  ever  come  up  in  conversation  that  the  sister 
was  interested  in  athletics  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Was  he  interested  in  athletics  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  think  he  played  tennis,  but  I  am  not  certain. 

Mr.  Hebert.  With  the  sister  now — it  is  very  important — you  don't 
recall  the  sister? 

Mr.  Chambers.  We  merely  brushed  that  subject. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  never  met  the  sister  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No;  nor  never  met  the  mother.  My  impression 
was  his  relations  with  his  mother  were  affectionate  but  not  too  happy. 
She  was,  perhaps,  domineering.  I  simply  pulled  this  out  of  the  air 
in  the  conversation. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  go  to  church  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  He  was  forbidden  to  go  to  church. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  whether  he  was  a  member  of  a  church  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  don't  know. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  if  his  wife  was  a  member  of  a  church  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  She  came  from  a  Quaker  family.  Her  maiden  name 
was  Priscilla  Fansler  before  she  was  married.  She  came  from  the 
Great  Valley  near  Paoli,  Pa. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  she  tell  you  anything  about  her  family  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No  ;  but  she  once  showed  me  while  we  were  driving 
beyond  Paoli  the  road  down  which  their  farm  lay. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  drove  with  them  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 


670  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

• 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  you  ever  go  on  a  trip  with  them  other  than  by 
automobile? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  you  stay  overnight  on  any  of  these  trips? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Did  she  ever  refer  to  her  first  husband  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  hope  he  will  never  hear  this.  She  referred  to  him 
almost  with  hatred. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  did  she  call  him,  what  name? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Probably  Thayer. 

Mr.  Nixon,  You  don't  recall  ? 

Mr.  Chamber's.  No. 

Mr.  Nixon.  When  did  you  meet  Donald  Hiss? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Probably  within  the  same  week  in  which  I  met 
Alger  Hiss. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  you  ever  stay  in  Donald  Hiss'  home? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No.  my  relation  with  Donald  Hiss  was  much  less 
close.  I  can  make  that  point  now,  if  you  will  permit.  My  relation- 
ship with  Alger  Hiss  quickly  transcended  our  formal  relationship. 
We  became  close  friends. 

Mr,  Nixon.  Donald  Hiss — what  relation  did  you  have  with  him? 

Mr.  Chambers.  A  purely  formal  one. 

Mr.  Nixon.  He  knew  you  as  Carl  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  you  collect  dues  from  him  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon,  Did  you  meet  his  wife  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  think  I  met  her  once,  not  very  often. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Where  did  you  collect  the  dues  from  him.  at  his  home? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Probably  in  Alger's  house.  He  frequently  came 
there. 

Mr.  Nixon.  He  came  there  to  see  you  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  recall  anything  significant  about  Donald  Hiss, 
as  to  personal  characteristics,  hobbies? 

Mr.  CiiAiMBERS.  No.  Something  else  is  involved  there,  too.  Donald 
Hiss  was  married,  I  think,  to  a  daughter  of  Mr.  Cotton,  who  is  in  the 
State  Department,  She  was  not  a  Communist,  and  everybody  was 
worried  about  her. 

Mr.  Nixon,  (netting  back  to  Alger  Hiss  for  the  moment,  do  you 
recall  any  pictures  on  the  wall  that  they  might  have  owned  at  the 
time? 

Mr.  Chajibers.  No;  I  am  afraid  I  don't. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Donald  Hiss — do  you  know  any  other  characteristics 
about  him,  can  you  recall  any? 

Mr.  Chaimbers.  Except  I  can  give  you  the  general  impression.  He 
was  much  less  intelligent  than  Alger.  Much  less  sensitive  than  his 
brother.  I  had  the  impression  he  was  interested  in  the  social  climb 
and  the  Communist  Party  was  interested  in  having  him  climb.  At 
one  point  I  believe  he  was  fairly  friendly  with  James  Roosevelt. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  you  have  any  conversations  with  him  you  can  recall 
that  were  out  of  the  ordinary  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes;  one  I  think  I  can  recall.  He  was  working  in 
the  Labor  Department,  I  believe  in  the  Immigration  Section,  and  it 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  671 

■was  the  plan  of  the  Communist  Party  to  have  him  go  to  California, 
get  himself  sent  b}^  the  Government  to  California,  to  work  in  the 
Bridges  case. 

At  that  moment  he  had  an  opportunity  to  go  into  the  State  Depart- 
ment as,  I  think,  legal  adviser  to  the  Philippine  Section,  which  had 
]ust  been  set  up. 

It  was  the  opinion  of  the  partj^  that  he  should  do  that  and  not  the 
Bridges  matter.  It  was  his  opinion  that  he  should  continue  in  the 
Bridges  matter  and  there  was  a  fairly  sharp  exchange,  but  he  sub- 
mitted to  discipline  and  went  to  the  State  Department. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  you  make  an  affidavit  concerning  Mr.  Alger  Hiss? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  made  a  signed  statement.  I  should  think  it  was 
about  1945.  Before  that  I  had  reported  these  facts  at  least  2  years 
before  to  the  FBI  and  9  years  ago  to  Mr.  Berle  and  mentioned  Hiss' 
name. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Nine  years  ago,  are  you  certain  that  you  did  mention 
Hiss'  name  to  Berle '. 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  certainly  mentioned  Hiss'  name  to  Berle,  I  was 
there  with  Berle  precise!}'  because — may  we  go  off  the  record? 

Mr.  Nixon.  Off  the  record. 

(Discussion  off  the  record.) 

Mr.  Nixon.  Have  you  seen  Hiss  since  1938? 

Mr.  Chambers._  No ;  since  the  time  I  went  to  his  house  and  tried  to 
break  him  away,  I  have  never  seen  him  since. 

Mr.  Nixox.  AYould  you  be  willing  to  submit  to  a  lie  detector  test  on 
this  testimony '. 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes ;  if  necessary. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  have  that  much  confidence? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  am  telling  the  truth. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Thank  you.     I  have  no  further  questions. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  am  interested  in  the  houses  he  lived  in.  You  said 
several  houses.     How  many  houses?     Start  from  the  beginning. 

Mr.  Chambers.  As  well  as  I  can  remember,  when  I  first  knew  him 
he  was  living  on  Twenty-eighth  Street  and  when  I  went  to  see  Mr. 
Berle  it  struck  me  as  strange,  because  Mr.  Berle  was  living  in  Stim- 
son's  house  on  Woodley  Road  near  Twenty-eighth  Street.  From  there 
I  am  not  absolutely  certain  the  order  of  the  houses,  but  it  seems  to  me 
he  moved  to  a  house  in  Georgetown — that  I  know:  he  moved  to  a 
house  in  Georgetown — but  it  seems  it  was  on  the  corner  of  P  Street, 
but  again  I  can't  be  absolutely  certain  of  the  streets. 

Mr.  Hebert.  It  was  on  a  corner  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes ;  and  as  I  recall,  you  had  to  go  up  steps  to  get 
to  it. 

Mr.  Mandel.  How  many  rooms  were  there  in  that  house? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  don't  know  offhand,  but  I  have  the  impression  it 
was  a  three-story  house.  I  also  think  it  had  a  kind  of  a  porch  in  back 
where  people  sat. 

Then  if  I  have  got  the  order  of  the  houses  right,  he  moved  to  a 
house  on  an  up-and-down  street,  a  street  that  would  cross  tlie  lettered 
streets,  probably  just  around  the  corner  from  the  other  house  and 
very  near  to  his  brother  Donald. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Still  in  Georgetown? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Still  in  Georgetown.  I  have  forgotten  the  reason 
lor  his  moving.     That  was  a  smaller  house  and,  as  I  recall,  the  dining 


i 


672  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

room  was  below  the  level  of  the  ground,  one  of  those  basement  dining 
looms ;  that  it  had  a  small  yard  in  back. 

I  think  he  was  there  when  I  broke  with  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Three  houses  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  But  I  went  to  see  him  in  the  house  he  later  moved 
to,  which  was  on  the  other  side  of  Wisconsin  Avenue. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Three  houses  in  Georgetown  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  One  on  Twenty-eighth  Street.  | 

Mr.  Hebert.  The  last  time  you  saw  him  when  you  attempted  to         * 
persuade  him  to  break  away  from  the  party 

Mr.  Chambers.  That  was  beyond  Wisconsin  Avenue. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Did  you  ever  see  their  bedroom ;  the  furniture  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes ;  but  I  don't  remember  the  furniture. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Did  they  have  twin  beds  or  single  beds  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  am  almost  certain  they  did  not  have  twin  beds. 

Mr.  Hebert.  In  any  of  the  four  houses  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  I  can't  be  sure  about  the  last  one,  but  I  am  reason- 
ably sure  they  did  not  have  twin  beds  before  that. 

Mr.  Hebert.  This  little  boy,  Timmie — can  you  recall  the  name  of 
the  school  that  he  went  to  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  No. 

Mr.  Hebert.  But  you  do  recall  that  he  changed  schools  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Yes ;  as  nearly  as  I  can  remember,  they  told  me  they 
had  shifted  him  from  one  school  to  another  because  there  was  a  saving 
and  they  could  contribute  it  to  the  party. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  year  ? 

Mr.  Chambers.  Probably  1936. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Or  1937,  but  probably  '36? 

Mr.  Chambers.  It  is  possible. 

Mr.  Hebert.  We  can  check  the  year. 

Mr.  Chambers.  The  school  was  somewhere  in  Georgetown.  He 
came  back  and  forth  every  day. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Is  there  anything  further?  If  not,  thank  you  very 
much,  Mr.  Chambers. 

The  hearing  is  adjourned. 

(Whereupon,  at  1 :  10  p.  m.,  the  subcommittee  adjourned.) 


HEARINGS  REGARDING  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  IN 
THE  UNITED  STATES  GOVERNMENT 


MONDAY,   AUGUST   9,    1948 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 

Special  Subcommittee  of  the 
Committee  on  Un-American  Activities, 

Washington^  D.  C. 

The  subcommittee  met,  pursuant  to  notice,  at  10 :  30  a.  m.,  in  the 
caucus  room.  Old  House  Office  Building,  Hon.  Richard  M.  Nixon 
presidino;. 

Committee  members  present :  Representatives  Richard  M,  Nixon 
(presiding),  John  McDowell,  and  F.  E'dward  Hebert. 

Also  present :  Representatives  J.  Parnell  Thomas  (chairman  of  the 
full  committee)  and  Karl  E.  Mundt. 

Staff  members  present :  Robert  E.  Stripling,  chief  investigator ; 
Louis  J.  Russell  and  AVilliam  A.  Wheeler,  investigators;  and  A.  S. 
Poore,  editor,  for  the  committee. 

Mr.  Nixon.  The  hearing  will  come  to  order. 

This  is  a  meeting  of  a  subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Un-Ameri- 
can Activities  appointed  by  the  acting  chairman,  Karl  E.  Mundt,  on 
August  5.  The  record  will  show  that  the  following  members  of  the 
subcommittee  are  present.  Mr.  McDowell,  Mr.  Hebert,  and  Mr.  Nixon. 

Mr.  Stripling,  will  you  call  the  first  witness? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Alexander  Koral. 

Mr.  Forer.  Mr.  Chairman 

Mr.  Stripling.  Just  a  moment. 

Mr.  Koral,  you  are  here  in  response  to  a  subpena  which  was  served 
upon  you  on  August  6  in  New  York  City,  directing  you  to  appear 
before  a  subcommittee  in  the  Federal  Building  in  New  York  City  at 
7  p.  m.,  on  August  6,  the  said  subcommittee  being  composed  of  Mr. 
Nixon  of  California,  the  chairman,  Mr.  McDowell  of  Pennsylvania, 
and  Mr.  Hebert  of  Louisiana. 

You  api^earecl  at  the  Federal  Building  in  response  to  that  subpena, 
did  you  not  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  did,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  At  the  conclusion  of  your  testimony  you  were  di- 
rected to  appear  before  the  subcommittee  at  10 :  30  a.  m.,  this  morning, 
here  in  the  caucus  room.    Is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Koral.  That  is  correct,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  believe  the  subpena  directed  you  to  appear  at  room 
226,  but  the  hearing  has  been  removed  to  this  room.  You  are  here  in 
response  to  that  subpena  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  am  here  in  response  to  that  subpena.  I  was  supposed 
to  appear  in  room  13. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Koral,  do  you  have  counsel  with  you  ? 

80408—48 12  673 


674  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr,  KoRAL.  No,  sir ;  I  haven't. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Stripling,  if  the  witness  is  going  to  testify  to  some- 
thing, I  want  him  sworn  at  this  time. 

Raise  your  right  hand,  Mr.  Koral. 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  the  testimony  you  are  about  to  give  will  be 
the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  KoRAL.  I  do,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Be  seated,  sir. 

TESTIMONY  OF  ALEXANDER  KORAL 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  have  counsel  with  you,  Mr.  Koral  ? 

Mr.  KoRAL.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Forer,  do  you  have  a  statement  you  would  like 
to  make  ? 

Mr.  FoRER.  My  name  is  Joseph  Forer.  I  am  an  attorney.  I  do 
not  represent  Mr.  Koral  except  for  a  very  limited  purpose,  which  I 
shall  now  explain.  This  morning,  at  home,  at  about  8 :  40  or  so,  I 
received  a  telephone  call  from  Boston  from  Mr.  Leo  Praeger,  who  is 
counsel  for  Mr.  Koral,  with  Avhom  I  happen  to  be  acquainted.  Mr. 
Praeger  told  me  over  the  phone  that  he  was  coming  down  from  New 
York  to  be  counsel  for  Mr.  Koral  at  this  hearing,  but,  unfortunately, 
he  had  taken  the  wrong  plane  and  ended  up  in  Boston  instead  of  in 
Washington.  He  called  me  to  ask  if  I  would  get  in  touch  with  the 
committee,  explain  that  he  had  caught  the  wrong  plane,  and  to  inform 
the  committee  that  he  was  getting  a  plane  from  Boston  to  Washinglon 
which  would  get  him  here  at  about  12 :  80,  and  asked  me  if  I  would 
ask  the  committee  if  thej^  could  postpone  Mr.  Koral's  appearance  until 
early  this  afternoon,  when  Mr.  Praeger  would  get  here. 

I  telephoned  Mr.  Stripling  and  conveyed  that  information  to  him, 
and  Mr.  Stripling  suggested  that  I  appear  before  you  at  this  time  to 
convey  Mr.  Praeger 's  message. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  I  understand,  Mr.  Forer,  that  Mr.  Praeger  will  be 
here  in  Washington  at  12  :  30  this  afternoon? 

Mr.  Forer.  Yes ;  I  understand  that.  He  told  me  the  plane  he  had 
gotten  space  on  was  due  to  arrive  at  about  that  time. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Koral,  do  I  understand  you  want  Mr.  Praeger  to 
represent  you  in  these  proceedings  ? 

Mr.  KoRAL.  I  do,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  suggest  that  you  now  direct  the 
witness  to  appear  at  2  o'clock  and  to  appear  at  that  time  before  the 
full  committee. 

Mr.  Hebkrt.  Mr.  Chairman,  may  I  interrupt  before  you  rule  on 
Mr.  Sti'ipling's  request  ?  I  think  the  record  should  show  that  in  New 
York  at  the  time  this  witness  was  instructed  to  appear  here,  his  at- 
torney at  that  time  tried  to  get  a  delay  and  was  refused  by  the  com- 
mittee. I  am  perfectly  willing  to  let  him  come  here  at  2  o'clock — 
that  is  all  I'ight  with  me — but  as  I  recall,  in  New  York,  he  wanted 
just  a  few  hours'  delay,  and  to  accomplish  the  same  purpose  that  is 
being  accomplished  here  now. 

j\[r.  NixoN.  Mr.  Koral,  you  are  here,  as  you  understand,  in  answer 
to  the  subpena.  You  are  directed  to  appear  in  answer  to  that  subpena. 
lioro  at  2  p.  m.  this  afternoon  Avitli  your  attorney. 

Mr.  KoRAL.  Yes,  sir.     May  I  make  a  remark,  please  ? 

Mr.  Nixon.  Yes. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  '     675 

Mr.  KoRAL.  I  believe,  if  m,y  memoi\y  serves  me  cori-ectly,  that  my 
attorney,  Mr.  Leo  Praeger.  asked  for  a  delay  of  a  couple  of  days,  not 
for  a  couple  of  hours. 

Mr.  McDowell.  He  asked  for  both ;  a  couple  of  days  and  a  couple 

of  llOUl'S. 

Mr.  KoRAL,  That  may  be  so.     I  recall  he  spoke  of  a  number  of  days. 

Mr.  Hebert.  a  day,  and  then  when  we  insisted  on  his  being  here 
this  morning,  he  asked  coUldn\  it  be  the  afternoon.  It  is  perfectly  all 
right.  I  just  wanted  to  make  the  observation,  Mr.  Chairman,  just  to 
keep  the  record  straight.  I  am  particularly  interested  in  the  fact  that 
the  witness  has  such  an  active  memory  that  he  can  remember  things 
in  detail. 

Mr.  Nixox.  Mr.  Koral,  I  shall  direct  you  now,  when  j'ou  return  at 
2  o'clock,  that  you  shall  appear  at  that  time  before  the  full  committee 
which  will  be  sitting  in  this  room  at  2  o'clock.  You  understand  the 
directions? 

Mr.  KoRAL.  Yes. 

Mr.  Xixox.  The  witness  may  step  down. 

Mr.  Stripling,  is  there  another  witness  to  be  heard  at  this  time  before 
the  subconnnittee? 

Mr.  Stkiplixg.  Mr.  Victor  Perlo.  Mr.  Perlo  wasn't  directed  to 
uppear  until  11  o'clock  but  it  is  5  minutes  to  11  now. 

Mr.  Xixox.  In  view  of  the  fact  that  Mr.  Perlo  is  not  here  and  was 
not  directed  to  appear  until  11  o'clock,  the  subcommittee  will  recess 
until  11  o'clock. 

(Whereupon,  at  10:53  a.  m..  a  recess  Avas  taken  until  11  a.  m.,  at 
which  time  the  following  occuiTed  :) 

Mr.  Nixox.  The  meeting  of  the  subcommittee  will  come  to  order. 

Mr.  Stripling,  will  you  call  the  next  witness. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Mr!  Victor  Perlo. 

Do  you  have  counsel  with  you,  Mr.  Perlo? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Yes. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Will  counsel  identify  himself? 

Mr.  GoLLOBix.  Ira  Gollobin. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  And  your  business  address? 

Mr.  GoLLOBix.  1441  Broadway,  New  York. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Mr.  Perlo.  you  are  here  this  morning  in  response 
to  a  subpena  which  was  served  upon  you  on  August  6,  by  Donald  T. 
Appell.  in  New  York  City,  calling  for  your  appearance  in  room  108, 
Federal  Building,  New  York  City,  on  August  7,  at  10:30  a.  m. ;  is 
that  correct  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Yes. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  You  were  directed  at  the  conclusion  of  your  testi- 
mony on  t4iat  date  to  appear  before  the  subcommittee  headed  by  Mr. 
Nixon,  of  California,  the  chaiinian;  Mr.  McDowell,  of  Pennsylvania; 
and  iMr.  Hebert,  of  Louisiana.  They  directed  j'ou  to  appear  before 
this  suljcommittee  in  Washington  in  room  '22C)  at  11  a.  m.  You  are 
here  in  response  to  that  direction  from  the  authorit}'  of  the  subpena? 

Mr.  Perlo.  That  is  correct. 

iVIr.  Nixox.  Mr.  Perlo,  I  now  direct  that  you  appear  before  the  full 
Connnittee  on  Un-American  Activities  at  this  time. 

The  meeting  of  the  subcommittee  will  adjourn,  and  we  will  now  go 
into  a  full  committee  meeting. 

(Whereupon,  at  11 :  10  a.  m.,  the  subcommittee  adjourned.) 


i 


HEARINGS  REGAEDINCt  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  IN 
THE  UNITED  STATES  GOVERNMENT 


MONDAY,   AUGUST   9,    1948 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 

Committee  on  Un-American  Activities, 

Washington^  D.  C. 

The  committee  met,  pursuant  to  call,  at  11 :  10  a.  m.,  in  the  caucus 
room.  Old  House  Office  Building,  Hon.  J.  Parnell  Thomas  (chair- 
man) presiding. 

Committee  members  present :  Representatives  J.  Parnell  Thomas 
(chairman),  Karl  E.  Mundt,  John  McDowell,  Richard  M.  Nixon,  J. 
Hardin  Peterson,  and  F.  Edward  Hebert. 

Staff  members  present:  Robert  E.  Stripling,  chief  investigator; 
Louis  J.  Russell,  William  A.  Wheeler,  investigators ;  and  A.  S.  Poore, 
editor,~  for  the  committee. 

The  Chairman.  The  committee  will  come  to  order.  The  record  will 
show  that  those  present  are  Mr.  Nixon,  Mr.  McDowell,  Mr.  Mundt, 
Mr.  Hebert,  and  Mr.  Thomas.    A  quorum  is  present. 

Mr.  Perlo,  will  you  please  rise  and  be  sworn  ? 

Raise  your  right  hand,  please. 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  the  testimony  you  will  give  here  before  this 
committee  is  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so 
help  you  God? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  do. 

The  Chairman.  Sit  down.    Mr,  Stripling,  you  take  the  witness. 

TESTIMONY  OF  VICTOH  PEELO  (ACCOMPANIED  BY  IRA  GOLLOBIN, 

COUNSEL  EOE  THE  WITNESS) 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  Public  Law  601  of  the  Seventy-ninth 
Congress,  second  session,  and  House  Resolution  5  of  the  Eightieth 
Congress  provides  the  authority  for  the  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities,  United  States  House  of  Representatives.  Public  Law  601 
states  in  part : 

Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  as  a  whole  or  by  subcommittee  is  au- 
thorized to  make  from  time  to  time  investigations  of  (i)  the  extent,  character, 
and  objects  of  un-American  propaganda  activities  in  the  United  States,  (ii) 
the  diffusion  within  the  United  States  of  subversive  and  un-American  propa- 
ganda that  is  instigated  from  foreign  countries  or  of  a  domestic  origin  and 
attacks  the  principle  of  the  form  of  government  as  guaranteed  by  our  Constitu- 
tion, and  (iii)  all  other  questions  in  relation  thereto  that  would  aid  Congress  in 
any  necessary  remedial  legislation. 

Pursuant  to  this  mandate  the  committee  has  been  conducting  an 
investigation  for  the  past  several  months  into  alleged  Communist  in- 

677 


678  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

filtration  of  Communist  agents  into  the  Federal  Government,  and  the 
operation  within  the  Government  of  certain  persons  who  were  collect- 
ing information  to  be  turned  over  to  a  foreign  government. 

The  hearing  this  morning  is  for  the  purpose  of  pursuing  this  inves- 
tigation. Victor  Perlo,  a  former  employee  of  the  Government,  who 
was  subpenaed  to  appear  before  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Ac- 
tivities today,  is  before  the  committee  this  morning  in  connection  with 
the  above-mentioned  inquiry.  All  questions  propounded  to  Mr.  Perlo 
will  be  pertinent  to  the  inquiry  and  he  shall  be  required  to  answer 
them. 

Mr.  Perlo,  will  you  please  state  your  full  name? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Mr.  Chairman,  before  going  into  the  questions  I  wish 
to  announce  that  I  have  a  statement  to  read  to  the  committee  and  to 
present  as  testimony  at  this  hearing.  I  wonder  if  I  may  be  permitted 
to. 

Mr.  Stripling.  We  will  be  glad  to  take  the  statement  under  consid- 
eration at  the  proper  time,  Mr.  Perlo.  We  would  like  to  have  you 
identify  yourself  and  I  would  also  like  to  get  your  employment  back- 
ground. 

Will  you  please  state  your  full  name? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Victor  Perlo. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  is  your  present  address? 

Mr.  Perlo.  39  Park  Avenue. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Is  that  your  business  address? 

Mr.  Perlo.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  is  your  home  address? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  gave  the  committee  my  home  address  in  executive  ses- 
sion and  I  would  prefer  to  leave  it  out  of  the  public  hearing  if  it 
doesn't  make  any  material  difference. 

Mr.  Stripling.  That  is  agreeable  with  me. 

The  Chairman.  Without  objection,  it  is  so  ordered. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  is  your  present  occupation  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  am  an  economist, 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  are  you  employed  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  By  the  Progressive  Party. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  is  the  address  of  the  Progressive  Party? 

Mr.  Perlo.  39  Park  Avenue,  New  York,  N.  Y. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  and  where  were  you  born  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  was  born  in  the  county  of  Queens,  New  York  State, 
May  15, 1912. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  were  your  parents  born  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  My  parents  were  born  in  towns  in  what  is  now  the  coun- 
try of  Poland.  I  wish  to  state  in  further  development  of  that  question 
that  both  of  my  parents  came  here  at  a  very  early  age,  that  they  are 
honored  and  respected  American  citizens,  that  my  father  has  been  a 
practicing  attorney  for  43  years  and  was  a  member  of  the  Selective 
Service  Board  during  World  War  II  for  5  years. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Perlo,  would  you  now  detail  for  the  committee 
in  chronological  order  your  employment  in  the  Federal  Government? 

Mr.  Perlo.  In  1933  t  went  to  work  for  the  Federal  Government  in 
Washington  for  the  National  Recovery  Administration.  I  was  en- 
gaged there  in  doing  statistical  research,  economic  research,  into  vari- 
ous questions  of  the  operation  of  the  economy  that  were  wanted  by 
those  officials  that  were  making  decisions  on  certain  of  the  operating 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  679 

jjroblems  connected  with  the  NRA  codes  and  other  regiihitions  con- 
cerning working  hours  and  other  factors  under  the  NRA. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  When  did  you  leave  the  NRA  '^ 

Mr.  Perlo.  In  1935. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  did  you  go  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  went  to  the  Home  Owners'  Loan  Corporation. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  did  you  remain  there  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  For  2  years. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  type  of  work  did  you  do  for  the  Home  Own- 
ers' Loan  Corporation  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  At  the  Home  Owners'  Loan  Corporation  I  was  engaged 
primarily  in  statistical  research  involving,  for  example,  the  establish- 
ment of  statistical  analyses  of  the  properties  mortgaged  to  the  Home 
Owners'  Loan  Corporation  and  a  projection  of  the  financial  accounts 
of  that  agency  over  a  long  period  of  time  and  similar  problems  that 
were  of  interest  to  the  officials  of  the  agency. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  did  you  remain  with  the  Home  Owners' 
Loan  Corporation? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Two  years. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Then  where  did  you  go  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Then  I  went  to  the  Brookings  Institution. 

The  Chairman.  May  I  interrupt^  I  would  like  to  have  the  record 
show  that  Mr.  Peterson  is  present. 

Proceed,  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Perlo.  At  the  Brookings  Institution  I  assisted  in  the  prepara- 
tion of  a  volume  on  wages,  production,  and  national  income,  which 
was  an  economic  analysis  of  important  factors  in  our  economy. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  did  you  remain  at  Brookings  Institution? 

Mr.  Perlo.  For  2  years. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  did  you  go  then  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Commerce  Department. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  remember  the  date  you  went  to  the  Com- 
merce Department  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  It  was  in  1939. 

Mr.  Stripling.  September  1939? 

Mr.  Perlo.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  did  you  remain  in  Commerce? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  remained  in  Commerce  for  approximately  a  year  and  a 
half. 

Air.  Stripling.  While  you  were  in  Commerce,  were  you  a  special 
agent,  senior  economic  analyst  in  the  Bureau  of  Foreign  and  Domestic 
Commerce  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  That  might  well  be  the  case.  I  haven't  looked  at  that 
record  in  some  time  and  I  don't  recall  my  exact  title,  but  those  may  be 
the  proper  titles. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  you  left  Commerce,  where  did  you  go? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  went  to  the  Office  of  Price  Administration.  It  wasn't 
yet  named  the  Office  of  Price  Administration,  but  it  was  soon  given 
that  name.  At  the  Office  of  Price  Administration  I  was  Chief  of  the 
Statistical  Analysis  Branch  of  the  Research  Division.  I  participated 
in  the  analysis  of  the  inflationary  pressures  developing  as  w^e  got  into 
a  war  economy  and  consequently  forming  the  basis  for  decisions  as  to 
the  necessity  for  price  control. 


680  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

In  short,  in  the  course  of  my  work  there,  I  think  in  my  own  small  way 
I  helped  a  little  bit  in  preventing  ruinous  inflation  during  the  war. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  did  you  go  after  you  left  OP  A? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  went  to  the  War  Production  Board. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Wliat  position  did  you  hold  at  the  War  Production 
Board? 

Mr.  Perlo.  In  the  War  Production  Board  I  was  one  of  the  analysts 
in  the  Office  of  Progress  Reports.  It  was  my  specific  responsibility  to 
analyze  problems  involved  in  the  production  of  aircraft  and  to  pre- 
pare reports  w^hich  I  trust  were  of  some  small  assistance  in  helping 
to  increase  and  accelerate  the  production  of  military  aircraft  during 
the  war. 

The  Chairman.  May  I  interrupt  right  there  ?  Mr.  Stripling,  you 
didn't  get  the  date  w^hen  he  started  with  WPB. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  that  February  17,  1943  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  That  sounds  about  right,  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  you  were  in  the  War  Production  Board,  did 
you  work  with  the  Resources  Protection  Board  ? 

•  Mr.  Perlo,  I  don't  remember  for  sure,  to  tell  you  the  honest  truth. 
Perhaps  you  can  help  me  out  on  that.  Do  you  know  whether  that  was 
]3art  of  the  War  Production  Board? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes,  it  was  made  up  of  War  Production  Board  per- 
sonnel assigned  to  the  Resources  Protection  Board,  which  consisted 
of  a  general  representing  the  Army,  an  admiral  representing  the  Navy, 
a  colonel  representing  the  Air  Forces,  a  colonel  representing  Civilian 
Defense  and  an  official  representing  the  Provost  Marshal  General  of 
the  Army  and  one  official  representing  the  War  Production  Board. 

Mr.  Perlo.  Come  to  think  of  it,  I  probably  never  did  then.  I  did 
have  some  contact,  very  minor  contact,  with  an  agency  that  had  to  do 
with  production  of  war  plants.  Whether  that  was  the  same  one,  I 
don't  know.     In  any  case,  it  was  a  minor  and  secondary  contact. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  know  Robert  A.  Graham  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  and  on  my  rights  under  the  fifth 
amendment  of  the  Constitution  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the 
ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Robert  A.  Graham  was  employed,  was  he  not,  by 
the  Resources  Protection  Board  ?  Didn't  Mr.  Graham  give  you  spe- 
cial permission  to  examine  the  secret  data  in  the  files  of  the  Resources 
Protection  Board? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  don't  recall  any  such  incident. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Robert  A.  Graham  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  constitutional  rights 
under  the  fifth  amendment  and  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the 
ground  tliat  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Perlo,  how  will  this  incriminate  you?  How 
will  it  incriminate  you  by  answering  as  to  whether  or  not  you  know 
this  person  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  It  is  my  understanding  that  it  is  not  necessary  to  de- 
fend one's  use  of  the  fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  in  refusing 
to  answer  questions  on  the  ground  that  they  might  tend  to  incriminate 
one,  and  I  have  to  adhere  to  that  position  on  these  questions. 

The  Chairman.  We  will  get  back  to  that  later.     You  go  ahead. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Perlo,  where  did  you  go  when  you  left  the  War 
Production  Board? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  681 

Mr..PERLO.  I  went  to  the  Treasury  Department. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  yon  go  to  the  Treasury  Department  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  went  to  the  Treasury  Department  in,  I  guess,  about 
December  of  1945. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Who  requested  you  to  come  to  the  Treasury 
Department? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Well,  nobody  exactly  requested  me  to  come  to  the  Treas- 
ury Department,  as  I  explained  to  you  Saturday.  I  was  informed 
that  I  had  been  recommended  by  various  people  to  Mr.  Harry  D. 
White,  then  I  think  an  Assistant  Secretary  of  the  Treasury,  and  I  went 
to  see  him.  Subsequent  to  that  conversation  I  was  hired  by  the 
Treasury  Department. 

Mr.  Stripling.  That  is  Harry  Dexter  White,  the  head  of  Monetary 
Research  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  He  was  not  head  of  Monetary  Research  at  that  time. 
He  was  Assistant  Secretary  of  the  Treasury. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  accepted  employment  in  Monetary  Research? 

Mr.  Perlo.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  did  you  remain  in  Monetary  Research? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Oh,  for  about  a  little  less  than  a  year  and  a  half,  I  guess. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Who  recommended  you  to  Mr.  White  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  don't  know. 

Mr.  Mundt.  You  said  you  went  to  see  Mr.  White  on  the  recom- 
mendation of  somebody. 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  said  somebody  told  me.  I  don't  remember  who  now, 
frankly.  Somebody  told  me  that  various  people  had  recommended 
me  to  Mr.  White  and  that  Mr.  White  was  looking  for  people  to  in- 
crease his  staff  and  replace  people  with,  and  suggested  that  I  call  him 
up  and  go  around  and  see  him.     That  is  what  I  did. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Did  those  people  tell  you  who  it  was  that  recommended 
you  to  Mr.  White  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  I  am  not  sure.  I  think  I  may  have 
been  told  but  I  don't  retain  that  information  in  my  memory  if  I  was. 

Mr.  Stripling.  While  you  were  in  the  Treasury  Department  were 
you  a  member  of  the  Committee  for  Reciprocity  Information? 

Mr.  Perlo.  That  is  right.  The  Committee  for  Reciprocity  In- 
formation— I  was  officially — I  will  explain  my  duties  there  a  little  bit 
in  connection  with  that. 

I  think  I  was  officially  an  alternate  member  on  the  Committee  for 
Reciprocity  Information  and  the  Trade  Agreements  Committee,  w^hich 
were  identical  or  substantially  identical  in  membership.  These  were 
interdepartmental  committees  which  took  care  of  all  of  the  technical 
work  in  the  preparation  of  trade  agreements  under  the  Reciprocal 
Trade  Agreement  Act  and  also  to  a  certain  extent  a  lot  of  prepara- 
tory work  for  the  International  Trade  Organization. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Perlo,  are  vou  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question 
both  on  my  rights  under  the  first  amendment  of  the  Constitution  and 
on  my  rights  under  the  fifth  amendment  of  the  Constitution  on  the 
ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Have  you  ever  been  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party  at  any  time  ? 


682  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Perl.0.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question 
on  the  ground  that  it  might  infringe  my  rights  under  the  first  a*mend- 
ment  to  the  Constitution  and  also  under  the  fifth  amendment,  on  the 
ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  During  the  years  you  held  these  various  posts  with 
the  Government  were  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel.  I  stand  on  my  constitutional  rights 
under  both  the  first  and  fifth  amendments  and  decline  to  answer  this 
question  on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade 
me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Perlo,  will  you  stand  up  and  turn  around, 
please. 

Miss  Bentley,  wnll  you  please  stand  up  and  take  off  your  glasses. 

Do  you  know  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley?  Do  you  know  Elizabeth  T. 
Bentley,  who  is  standing,  Mr.  Perlo? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on 
the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Have  you  ever  seen  Elizabetli  T.  Bentley  before  in 
your  life? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question 
on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Perlo,  have  you  ever  given  Miss  Bentley  any  secret 
or  confidential  Government  information? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel,  I  stand  on  my  constitutional  rights 
under  the  fifth  amendment  and  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the 
ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Perlo.  do  you  know  Henry  Collins  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  of  tlie  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  that  question 
on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incrimi]iate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  John  Abt,  A-b-t? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on 
the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Sonia  Gold,  S-o-n-i-a  G-o-l-d? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  that  question 
on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  William  Gold,  or  Beta.  B-e-l-a,  Gold? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  constitutional  rights 
and  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend 
to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Veet  Bassie,  V-e-e-t  B-a-s-s-i-e? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on 
the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Were  you  ever  in  the  apartment  of  Henry  Collins 
when  he  was  residing  in  St.  Matthews  Court  in  Washington  D.  C, 
in  1935  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  of  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  that  ques- 
tion on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Alger  Hiss? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  constitutional  rights 
under  the  fifth  amendment  and  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the 
ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  •  683 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Donald  Hiss? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  that  ques- 
tion on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

]Mr.  Stripling.  Were  you  ever  at  the  home  of  Alger  Hiss  on  P 
Street  in  Georgetown  in  1935  or  1936  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  constitutional  rights 
and  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend 
to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Whittaker  Chambers? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  constitutional  rights 
under  the  fifth  amendment  and  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the 
ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Steve  Nelson  ? 

]Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  constitutional  rights 
and  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend 
to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mv.  StiRIPling.  Do  you  know  Gerhart  Eisler  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  constitutional  rights 
and  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend 
to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

]\Ir.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  George  Silverman  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  constitutional  rights 
and  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend 
to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Allan  Eosenberg? 

]\Ir.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  this  ques- 
tion on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Donald  Niven  Wheeler  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  this  question 
on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  William  H.  Taylor,  formerly  em- 
ployed in  the  Treasury  Department  ? 

]Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  constitutional  rights 
and  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend 
to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Eobert  T.  Miller  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  constitutional  rights 
under  the  fifth  amendment  and  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the 
ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Perlo,  while  you  were  employed  in  the  Federal 
Government  were  you  ever  investigated  as  a  security  risk  or  upon 
your  loyalty  to  the  United  States  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Were  you  ever  asked  to  resign  from  the  Government 
of  the  United  States? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  resign  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  resigned. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  resign  as  the  result  of  that  request  or 
resign  because  vou  were  a  security  risk? 

Mr.  Perlo.  No  ;  I  resigned  of  my  own  volition. 


684  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  much  later  after  you  had  been  asked  to  resign 
did  you  resign  of  your  own  volition  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  About  4  or  5  months. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Could  you  reenter  Government  employment  today 
if  you  wanted  to  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  don't  want  to,  and  I  don't  know  what  would  happen 
if  I  tried. 

Mr.  Stripling.   You  didn't  resign  with  prejudice,  did  you? 

Mr.  Perlo.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  the  circumstances  regarding  his 
being  invited  to  resign  I  would  like  to  lay  before  the  committee  in 
executive  session. 

The  Chairman.  Without  objection,  it  is  so  ordered. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Perlo,  were  you  ever  turned  down  for  a  passport 
to  leave  the  United  States  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  apply  for  a  passport  to  leave  the 
United  States? 

Mr.  Perlo.   Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  apply  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Approximately  March  or  April  of  1947. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  w^ere  you  going  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Going  to  England. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  was  the  purpose  of  your  business  in. going 
to  England  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  To  take  employment  there. 

Mr.  Stripling.  With  an  agency  of  the  Government  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  No. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Were  you  ever  offered  a  position  with  the  Interna- 
tional Governmental  Committee  on  Refugees? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  accept  that  position  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.   Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  leave  the  United  States  in  connection  with 
your  work  for  that  committee  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  No,  sir;  because  before  I  did  so  I  was  informed  that 
steps  were  being  taken  to  have  the  offer  of  the  job  w^ithdrawn. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Why  was  the  offer  of  the  job  going  to  be  withdrawn  ? 
What  information  did  you  have  on  that? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  don't  know.  You  will  have  to  ask  the  people  over 
there  in  England. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  it  because  you  couldn't  get  a  passport  to  leave 
the  United  States? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  don't  loiow.  The  people  in  England  never  communi- 
cated with  me  about  that.  After  the  passport  application  I  ultimately 
withdrew  it  after  I  learned  there  wouldn't  be  any  job  over  there. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  How  long  between  the  time  you  applied  for  the  passport 
and  the  time  you  withdrew  your  application  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  don't  remember.  It  might  have  been  a  few  weeks  or 
a  month. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Could  it  have  been  more  than  a  month  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  It  could  have  been. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  685 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Could  it  have  been  2  months  ? 

Mr.  Peklo.  I  doii"t  know. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  It  coukl  have  been  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  doubt  if  it  would  have  been  that  long,  but  it  might 
have  been. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Perlo,  do  you  know  an  individual  by  the  name 
of  Charles  Kramer? 

]Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel,  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  that  ques- 
tion on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  recommend  him  for  a  job  with  the  Office  of 
Price  Administration? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  wish  to  consult  with  my  attorney. 

(Consultation  between  Mr.  Perlo  and  Mr.  Gollobin.) 

The  Chairman.  Just  a  minute,  Mr.  Perlo.  I  would  like  to  suggest 
to  the  attorney  that  he  should  advise  the  witness  as  to  the  constitu- 
tional riglits.     Go  ahead. 

(Consultation  betw^een  Mr.  Perlo  and  Mr,  Gollobin.) 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel,  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answ^er  this  question 
on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

The  Chairman.  Now,  Mr.  Stripling,  will  you  repeat  that  question? 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  have  other  questions,  Mr.  Chairman,  I  would  like 
lo  proceed  on. 

The  Chairman,  Proceed. 

Mr,  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel,  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  and  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground 
that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling,  Did  you  know  an  individual  by  the  name  of  Harold 
Ware? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel,  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  that  ques- 
tion on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  know  an  individual  by  the  name  of  Harry 
Magdoff  i 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel,  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  that  ques- 
tion on  the  ground  tliat  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  know  an  individual  by  tlie  name  of  J.  Peters 
or  Alexander  Stevens  or  Isidore  Boorstein? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel,  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  this  ques- 
tion on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Solomon  Adler  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel,  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  of  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  this  ques- 
tion on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Lauchlin  Currie? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  this  question 
on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Tripling.  Do  you  know^  an  individual  by  the  name  of  William 
Ludv/ig  Ullmaii,  U-1-l-m-a-n  ? 


686  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Perlo.  Oil  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  this  question 
on  the  ground  that  it  miglit  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Harold  Glasser? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  this  question 
on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incrimi-nate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Edward  J.  Fitzgerald^ 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  this  question 
on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  Allan  Kosenbei'g  ever  turn  any  information 
over  to  you  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  this  question 
on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  Donald  Wheeler,  of  the  Office  of  Strategic 
Services  ever  turn  any  information  over  to  you? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  this  question 
on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  Charles  Kramer  ever  turn  any  information 
over  to  you  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  this  question 
on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  Edward  J.  Fitzgerald  ever  turn  any  informa- 
tion over  to  you  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  this  question 
on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  Harold  Glasser,  of  the  Treasury  Department, 
ever  turn  any  information  over  to  you? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fiftli  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  this  question 
on  tlie  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  Sol  Lischinsky,  L-i-s-c-h-i-n-s-k-y,  who  was 
with  UNRRA  organization,  ever  turn  any  information  over  to  you? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on 
the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  ask  that  the  witness  step  aside  for 
a  few  moments. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Perlo,  will  you  step  aside,  please. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  call  Miss  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley. 

The  Chairman.  Miss  Bentley,  raise  your  right  hand. 

Miss  Bentley,  do  you  solenmly  swear  the  testimony  you  will  give 
before  this  committee  will  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing 
but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  do. 

The  Chairman.  Sit  down. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIOiSrAGE  687 

TESTIMONY  OF  ELIZABETH  T.  BENTLEY 

Mr.  Striplixg.  INIiss  Bentley,  you  have  previously  been  identified 
in  the  record. 

Do  you  know  Victor  Perlo,  the  witness  who  just  left  the  stand? 

Miss  Bextley.  Yes ;  I  do. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  When  did  you  first  meet  Victor  Perlo  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  I  first  met  Victor  Perlo  in  the  apartment  of  John 
Abt  on  Central  Park  West  in  INIarch  1944. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  In  your  testimony  which  you  gave  before  the  com- 
mittee last  week — I  believe  it  was  August  3 — you  stated  that  Victor 
Perlo  headed  the  so-called  Perlo  group  of  Government  employees  who 
were  furnishing  information  to  you  which  you  in  turn  furnished  to 
the  Russian  Government  or  representatives  of  the  Russian  Govern- 
ment. 

Miss  Bextley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Is  the  person  who  just  left  the  witness  stand  the 
Victor  Perlo  who  headed  that  group  ? 

]SIiss  Bextley.  Yes ;  it  is. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Did  Victor  Perlo  turn  information  over  to  you? 

Miss  Bextley.  Yes :  he  did. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  How  many  times  did  Victor  Perlo  turn  information 
over  to  you  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  You  mean  personally,  Mr.  Stripling?  Or  by  other 
people  ? 

Mr.  Striplixg.  How  manj^  times  did  he  personally  turn  information 
over  to  you  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  I  would  say  seven  or  eight  or  nine  times,  roughly. 

INIr.  Striplixg.  Where  did  you  meet  Mr.  Perlo  wiien  he  turned  this 
information  over  to  you  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  I  met  him  twice  at  the  apartment  of  Mr.  Abt  and 
the  other  times  at  the  apartment  of  Miss  Mary  Price  in  New  York 
City. 

jMr.  Striplixg.  Do  you  have  the  address  of  the  apartment  where  you 
met  Mr.  Perlo,  the  apartment  of  Mary  Price? 

Miss  Bextley.  I  can't  give  you  the  exact  street  number,  but  it  was 
on  West  Eleventh  Street  between  Seventh  Avenue  and  Hudson  Street. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Did  any  other  memljcrs  of  the  Perlo  group  turn 
information  over  to  you? 

Miss  Bextley.  Personally,  you  mean? 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Yes. 

Miss  Bextley.  Yes.    Do  you  want  me  to  name  them? 

Mr.  Striplixg.  Yes". 

Miss  Bextley.  Charles  Kramer,  Edward  Fitzgerald,  Allan  Rosen- 
berg, Donald  Wheeler. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  What  type  of  information  did  Mr.  Perlo  furnish 
to  you  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  Mr.  Perlo,  I  understood  from  him,  was  a  statistician 
who  was  employed  in  that  part  of  the  WPB  which  handled  secret 
information  on  aircraft,  and  that  was  the  type  of  information  which 
he  turned  over  to  me.    That  consisted  of  production  figures  listed  by 


688  COMMUNIST    ESPIONAGE 

types  of  planes — fighters,  bombers,  transports,  photographic  planes, 
and  so  on. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Just  a  moment.  Mr.  Chairman,  at  this  point  I 
would  like  to  refer  back  to  the  witness'  refusal  to  identify  Robert  A. 
Graham  and  to  state  whether  or  not  he  had  obtained  information  from 
the  Resources  Protection  Board  and  to  advise  this  committee  what 
the  Resources  Protection  Board  was. 

Mr.  Chairman,  we  are  prepared  to  show  that  Victor  Perlo,  an  em- 
ployee of  the  AVar  Production  Board,  was  given  special  permission 
to  copy  secret  data  on  aircraft  production,  location  of  plant-making 
engines,  wings,  struts,  aircraft  arnuiment,  B-29  synclironized  turrets, 
and  automatic  computing  aircraft  gunsights,  as  well  as  other  similar 
data.  He  was  given  permission  to  copy  this  data  from  the  secret 
records  of  the  Resources  Protection  Board. 

The  Resources  Protection  Board  drew  in  secret  information  from 
all  phases  of  the  war  program,  on  shipbuilding,  artillery  development, 
tanks,  explosives  production,  bombsights,  key  chemical  production, 
aircraft  production,  and  chemical,  as  well  as  mechanical,  components 
for  the  above.  Much  of  this  information  was  obtained  from  the 
Army,  the  Navy,  and  the  Air  Forces,  with  the  understanding  that 
(1)  the  information  would  remain  classified  as  secret;  (2)  tliat  it 
would  not  bs  disseminated  to  personnel  in  the  War  Production  Board; 
and  (3)  that  it  would  be  used  only  in  a  specified  manner,  which  is  de- 
scribed below : 

The  Resources  Production  Board  consisted  of  a  general  represent- 
ing the  Army,  an  admiral  representing  the  Navy,  a  colonel  represent- 
ing the  Air  Forces,  a  colonel  representing  Civilian  Defense,  an  official 
representing  the  Provost  Marshal  General  of  the  Army,  and  one  offi- 
cial of  the  War  Production  Board.  A  special  staff  who  were,  for 
pay-roll  purposes,  employees  of  the  War  Production  Board,  but 
who  had  unique  liaison  arrangements  with  the  armed  services  and 
all  sections  of  the  War  Production  Board,  Maritime  Commission, 
et  cetera,  had  access  to  secret  information,  compiled  and  focused  this 
data  to  show  at  a  glance  the  most  strategic  and  vulnerable  and  key 
points  in  the  entire  war-production  program.  For  example,  their 
data  would  show  how  many  F4F  fighters  were  made  by  (xrumman 
at  the  Long  Island  plant  this  month,  how  many  v:ere  scheduled  for 
next  month,  for  the  next  year;  the  location  at  which  engines,  pro- 
l>ellers,  and  valves  for  this  plane  were  produced,  with  many  schedules 
of  such  pi'oduction ;  when  and  where  the  B-29's  would  come  into 
production,  and  the  schedules  of  future  production.  The  location 
of  each  ordnance  plant;  of  every  strategic  chemical  plant,  of  each 
aluminum  plant,  et  cetera,  with  the  volume  produced  at  each  and 
schedules  of  production  in  future  months;  the  number  of  freight  cars 
across  vulnerable  railroad  bridges,  and  the  crippling  effect  their  de- 
struction Avould  have  upon  the  war  program. 

These  estimates  of  the  need  for  protecting  the  key  points  in  our 
industry  were  transmitted  back  to  the  armed  services  under  the  classi-  f. 
fication  "secret"  under  armed  guard  to  the  extent  of  about  20  copies, 
so  that  the  Army,  Navy,  and  Air  Corps  could  make  a  sound  distribution 
of  forces  and  measures  to  protect  the  vital  points  of  production  and 
transportation  against  destruction. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  689 

Victor  Perlo  received  permission  to  copy  this  data,  Mr.  Chairman, 
and  I  don't  think  it  is  necessary  to  detail  any  further  the  strategic  im- 
portance of  such  information. 

The  CiiAiRMAX.  Without  objection,  it  is  so  ordered. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Is  it  your  testimony  Mr.  Perlo  turned  such  infor- 
mation over  to  you  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes.  I  think  that  covers  it  with  the  exception  of 
bridges  over  which  freight  cars  went.  I  don't  recall  that  being  in  the 
information. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  ever  give  you  any  information  regarding 
B-29's? 

Miss'  Bentley.  Very  little. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  you  received  this  information  from  Mr.  Perlo 
and  members  of  his  groui),  what  did  you  do  with  it? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  took  the  information  with  me,  read  through  it, 
and  in  cases  where  it  was  handwritten  or  cases  where  it  was  badly 
typed,  I  recopied  it  and  then  turned  it  over  to  my  Kussian  contact. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  was  the  name  of  the  Russian  contact  that  you 
turned  it  over  to  ? 

]\liss  Bentley.  At  first,  the  first  one  I  had  during  the  days  when  I 
took  on  the  Perlo  group,  the  name  of  that  contact  was  Jack — Bill,  I 
am  sorry — and  later  on  I  was  shifted  to  another  contact  whose  name 
was  Bill. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  see  Mr.  Perlo  in  Washington,  D.  C.  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No ;  I  never  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  call  him  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  just  once.  We  had  missed  connections  and  I 
was  in  Washington.  I  called  him  at  his  home  one  evening  and  we 
arranged  a  connection. 

Mr.  Stripling.  But  you  didn't  see  him? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  never  saw  him  in  Washington. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  he  disturbed  because  you  had  called  him? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  think  so.  He  was  rather  nervous  about  the  whole 
business. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  have  no  further  questions  at  this  time. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Before  the  witness  leaves,  may  I  ask  a  question? 

Miss  Bentley,  did  you  ever  collect  Communist  Party  dues  from 
Victor  Perlo? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  I  did. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  the  Victor  Perlo  you  collected  Communist  Party 
dues  from  is  the  same  Victor  Perlo  who  was  just  on  the  witness  stand  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Where  did  you  collect  the  Communist  Party  dues  from 
him? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  collected  them  from  him  where  I  met  him,  in  Mary 
Price's  apartment  in  New  York  City. 

Mr.  Hebert.  When  you  called  him  on  the  telephone  in  Washington, 
how  did  you  identify  yourself? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  said  that  this'  was  Helen  calling.  I  said,  '"You 
must  remember  me,"  and  he  did. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  is  all. 


80408 — 48 13 


690  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Chairman.  Mr.  Mundt. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  No  questions. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Nixon. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Miss  Bentley,  you  have  said  you  turned  this  mforma- 
tion  over  to  your  Russian  contacts.  The  names  of  those  contacts  were 
Jack  and  Bill.    How  do  you  know  they  were  Russian  contacts? 

Miss  Bentley.  You  mean  whether  they  w^ere  Russians  or 

Mr.  Nixon.  What  led  you  to  make  the  statement  that  they  were 
Russian  contacts  ?    What  let  you  to  believe  they  were  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Because  I  was  introduced  to  them  as  such. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Who  introduced  them  to  you  as  such? 

Miss  Bentley.  Originally  Jack  was  introduced  to  me  by  a  girl  con- 
tact I  had  at  that  time  whose  name  was  Catharine,  and  after  Mr. 
Golos'  death  Catharine  introduced  me  to  Bill  as  my  new  boss. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  she  introduce  them  to  you  just  as  your  new  boss,  or 
did  she  say,  "This  is  your  new  Russian  contact"  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  They  never  mentioned  the  name  "Russian."  They 
were  very  careful  about  that. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  have  mentioned  it  here  now. 

Miss  Bentley,  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  say  it  is  a  Russian  contact  because  your  previous 
boss  was  a  Russian  contact  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct ;  yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Golos  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  That  is  the  basis  for  you  making  the  statement  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct ;  yes. 
■    Mr.  Nixon.  You  don't  mean  that  these  people  in  fact  were  Russians? 

Miss  Bentley.  If  you  mean  by  "Russian"  tlie  way  it  is  used  as 
against  Lithuanians,  and  so  on,  no,  because  I  believe  one  of  my  con- 
tacts was  a  Lithuanian  instead  of  being  a  straight  Russian,  but  if  you 
mean  did  they  represent  the  Russian  police;  yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  loiow  whether  they  were  American  born? 

Miss  Bentley.  They  were  definitely  not  Americans.  They  each 
had  an  accent  and  in  the  case  of  Jack  he  told  me  he  was  a  Lithuanian 
who  had  been  sent  from  over  there  here. 

Mr.  Nixon.  I  see. 

Mr.  Hebert.  May  I  interrupt  to  elaborate  more  on  what  Mr.  Nixon 
has  said? 

Miss  Bentley,  in  other  words,  the  wdiole  pattern  of  the  apparatus 
as  you  understood  it  from  your  first  contact  with  the  man  Golos,  the 
whole  picture  was  given  to  you  that  your  future  contacts — in  other 
words,  you  started  with  Golos  and  you  knew  he  was  a  Russian  emis- 
sary ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Hebert.  He  told  you  in  the  future  whenever  you  have  any  con- 
tacts  

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  these  contacts  would  be  introduced  to  you  only 
by  first  names? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Hei^ert.  And  this  was  in  the  sequence  of  the  original  instruc- 
tions given  to  you  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  691 

Mr.  Hebert.  So  that  there  was  never  any  doubt  in  your  mind  that 
A\hen  you  met  Bill,  Jack,  Paul,  or  Joe  that  was  in  accordance  with 
3'our  original  instruction? 

Miss  Bentlet.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  that  you  followed  through  and  there  was  no 
reason  for  you  to  doubt  at  any  time  that  these  were  not  the  proper 
individuals  who  would  ultimately  turn  the  information  which  you 
give  to  them  over  to  the  ultimate  Russian 

Miss  Bextley.  Yes.  In  fact,  Jack  once  remarked  to  me  that  they 
had  difficulty  in  getting  the  information  to  the  Embassy,  so  of  course 
that  would  bear  that  out. 

Mr.  Hebert.  There  is  no  doubt  in  your  mind  it  was  set  up  in  the 
complete  apparatus  that  has  been  described? 

Miss  Bentley.  There  is  no  doubt  about  it  in  my  mind.  I  wouldn't 
have  dealt  with  them  in  that  manner  if  there  had  been  a  doubt  in  my 
mind. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  wanted  the  committee  to  get  the  clear  picture  that 
you  didn't  just  meet  Joe,  Paul,  or  somebody  and  say,  "Here  is  a 
package." 

INIiss  Bentley.  They  were  introduced  to  me  and  from  that,  from 
my  previous  instructions,  I  recognized  that  they  were  my  Russian 
contacts. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  is  all. 

Mr.  Nixox.  Did  you  discuss  the  information  with  them  that  you 
gave  to  them  at  any  time?    Did  you  discuss  the  type  of  information? 

Miss  Bextley.  You  mean  discuss  with  the  Russian  contacts? 

Mr.  Xixox'.  Yes. 

Miss  Bextley.  Oh,  yes.  certainly ;  because  they  had  to  give  me  guid- 
ance on  what  type  of  material  my  contacts  in  the  Government  should 
look  for,  and  they  would  evidently  go  throngh  it  after  I  handed  it  to 
them  and  then  they  Avould  conie  back  with  suggestions  that  this  was 
good  or  this  was  rather  worthless  and  with  additional  instructions, 
evidently,  from  their  superiors  as  to  the  type  of  information  they 
were  searching  for. 

Mr.  Xixox.  You  in  turn  gave  those  instructions  to  people  like  Mr. 
Period 

Miss  Bextley.  That  is  correct :  yes. 

Mr.  Nixox.  They  were  supposed  to  carry  out  those  instructions  and 
get  you  the  kind  of  information  these  people  had  asked  you  for? 

Miss  Bextley.  That  is  correct. 

I\Ir.  Hebert.  Did  you  tell  ]\Ir,  Perlo,  "I  want  plans  and  statistics 
on  production"? 

Miss  Bextley.  ]Mr.  Perlo  had  alreadv  produced  those  at  the  first 
meeting.  What  I  did  was  to  tell  him  that  particular  statistics  were 
extremely  valuable  and  to  intensifj^  his  search  for  more  of  the  same. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  did  tell  him  that,  though? 

Miss  Bextley.  Oh.  yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  did  he  sa}'? 

Miss  Bextley.  He  said  he  would  do  his  very  best. 

Mv.  Hebert.  That  is  all. 

The  CiiAiRMAX".  ]\Iiss  Bentlev,  where  was  this  first  meeting  held  ? 

^liss  Bentley'.  Tlie  first  meeting  at  which  I  met  Mr.  Perlo,  includ- 
ing others,  was  at  the  apartment  of  Mr.  John  Abt  on  Central  Park 
West.     It  is  near  One  Hundred  and  Third  Street  in  New  York  City. 


692  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

The  Chairman.  Who  else  was  present  at  that  meeting  besides  Mr. 
Perlo  and  Mr.  Abt  and  yourself  '1 

Miss  Bentley.  Edward  Fitzgerald,  Harry  Magdoff,  and  Charles 
Kramer. 

The  Chairman.  Was  it  at  that  meeting  that  the  plans  w^ere  laid 
for  you  to  be  a  courier  for  this  group  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct;  yes. 

The  Chairman.  You  got  your  instructions  at  that  meeting? 

Miss  Bentley.  It  was  rather  the  other  way  around.  In  addition 
to  being  a  courier  I  was  the  one  who  was  to  be  in  complete  charge  of 
handling  that  group's  operation,  and  actually  it  wasn't  so  much  l)eing 
a  courier  because  they  were  the  ones  who  were  couriers  and  brought 
it  to  New  York  to  me.  But  at  that  meeting  I  went  over  as  completely 
as  possible  the  type  of  position  each  one  held  in  the  Government  and 
the  type  of  position  that  the  rest  of  the  group  held,  what  type  of  in- 
formation was  available  from  each  of  them,  the  relative  value  of  such 
information,  and  more  or  less  it  was  a  straightening  out  of  what  was 
available  and  giving  them  instructions  on  what  to  look  for. 

The  Chairman.  Did  Mr.  Perlo  and  these  others  seem  very  enthu- 
siastic about  helping  in  these  espionage  rings? 

Miss  Bentley.  Mr.  Perlo  certainly  did.  There  were  possibly  one 
or  two  others  that  were  not  terribly  enthusiastic. 

The  Chairman.  But  Mr.  Perlo  did  show  his  enthusiasm  in  an  effort 
to  get  information  about  our  war  effort  for  the  Russian  Government? 

Miss  Benti^ey.  I  would  say  he  was  the  most  energetic  one  in  that  en- 
tire group. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Mundt. 

Mr.  Mtjndt.  Did  Mr.  Perlo  know  what  use  you  were  going  to  make 
of  the  information  he  gave  you  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  rather  gather  so  from  the  remark  he  made  to  me 
at  that  first  meeting,  because  he  turned  to  me  and  said,  "Is  Joe  getting 
all  this  stuff  safely?"  And  there  was  an  embarrassed  pause  and  no- 
body answ^ered  his  question. 

Mr.  Mundt.  By  "Joe"  you  think  he  meant  Joe  Stalin. 

Miss  Bentley.  Oh,  yes. 

The  Chairman.  Any  other  questions  ? 

Mr.  Hebert.  Yes,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Miss  Bentley,  during  these  hearings  two  specific  groups  have  been 
-joamed — one,  the  so-called  Perlo  group,  and  the  other,  the  so-called 
kSilvermaster  group,  which  encompasses  the  names  of  about  20  in- 
dividuals, at  a  haphazard  guess. 

Miss  Bentley.  I  would  say  so,  roughly. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Would  you  say  that  those  are  the  only  two  such  groups 
in  operation,  or  that  there  were  other  groups  of  which  you  have  no 
knowledge  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  would  imagine  from  what  I  had  heard  very  indi- 
rectly that  those  were  only  tw^o  of  a  good  many  other  groups. 

Mr.  Hebert,  That  there  were  many  other  groups  operating  in  the 
Government  similar  to  the  Perlo  and  the  Silvermaster  group? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  I  would  definitely  say  so. 

Mr,  Hebert.  The  reason  I  ask  you  that  is  to  have  it  very  clear  that 
this  whole  espionage  could  not  possibly  have  been  carried  on  by  just 
these  two  groups,  the  so-called  Perlo  group  and  the  so-called  Silver- 
master  group. 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  693 

Miss  Bextley.  I  do  know  from  my  Russian  contact  Jack,  who  told 
me  of  other  people  that  he  had  been  contacting  in  the  Government, 
not  by  name  and  position,  but  he  mentioned  there  were  other  people, 
so  I  take  it  for  granted  there  must  have  been. 

Mr.  HEBf^RT^It  would  be  perfectly  logical  for  this  committee  to 
assvmie  that  while  the  Perlo  group  and  the  Silvermaster  group  have 
been  identified,  there  are  innumerable  other  groups  under  similar  cir- 
cumstances wliich  operated  under  similar  heads  to  Perlo  and  Silver- 
master  that  we  haven't  found  out  about  yet  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  would  think  it  extremely  likely  from  what  I  have 
heard;  yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Tliat  is  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stru'ling.  I  will  ask  Miss  Bentley  to  step  aside  and  ask  Mr. 
Perlo  to  take  the  stand. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Perlo,  will  j^ou  take  the  stand? 

TESTIMONY  OF  VICTOR  PERLO— Resumed 

]\fr.  Strit'eing.  Mr.  Perlo,  did  you  furnish  any  information  to 
Elizabeth  T.  Bentley? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
6fth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  this  question 
on  tlie  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  have  a  statement,  Mr.  Perlo? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Is  this  the  same  statement  you  had  Saturday? 

Mr.  Perlo.  The  same  one. 

Mv.  McDowell.  Is  it  changed  in  any  way  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  It  has  been  amended  to  indicate  it  is  being  submitted 
to  the  full  committee  today. 

Ml".  McDowell.  Is  that  the  only  change  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Stripling.  If  the  committee  is  going  to  accept  the  statement,  I 
want  the  witness  to  read  it  into  the  record. 

Mr.  Nixon.  At  this  time  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  At  this  time,  if  they  are  going  to  accept  it. 

The  Chairman.  Just  a  minute. 

Mr.  Nixon.  There  is  one  point  about  which  I  would  like  to  question 
the  witness  before  reading  the  statement. 

Mr.  Perlo.  this  is  the  same  statement  except  for,  as  you  say,  chang- 
ing the  name  of  the  subcommittee  to  the  full  committee;  is  that  cor- 
rect ?    The  statement  you  submitted  in  New  York  ? 

Mr.  PEitLO.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Nixon.  I  refer  you  to  your  statement,  to  the  sixth  paragraph, 
to  this  sentence : 

I  vigorously  deny  the  charges  which  have  been  leveled  against  me. 

Were  you  in  the  room  when  Miss  Bentley  just  testified  now? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Those  were  the  charges  which  Miss  Bentley  made  against 
you,  previously  in  testimony  before  this  committee.  She  repeated 
those  charges  now.  Do  you  mean  by  this  statement  that  you  intend 
to  read  that  you  vigorously  deny  the  charges  that  Miss  Bentley  made 
then  and  that  she  made  today  before  this  committee  ? 


694  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr,  Perlo.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  deny  the  charge  that  Miss  Bentley  made  that  you 
gave  her  secret  information  ?    That  is  untrue,  isn't  it  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel 

Mr.  Nixon  (interposing).  Just  a  minute.  You  said  that  you  deny 
the  charges  Miss  Bentley  had  made.  Do  you  deny  the  charges  or  don't 
you  deny  the  charges? 

(There  was  a  short  pause  by  the  witness.) 

Mr.  Nixon.  Answer  the  question.  You  answered  the  question  "yes" 
before.    Do  you  wish  to  change  the  answer  to  the  question  ? 

]\Ir.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution 

Mr.  Nixon.  Finish  your  statement. 

Mr,  Perlo.  And  refuse  to  answer  the  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  NixoN.  Mr.  Perlo,  I  quote  again  from  the  statement  that  you 
have  submitted  to  this  committee  to  read  under  oath : 

I  vigorously  deny  the  charges  which  have  l>een  leveled  against  me. 

Do  you  at  this  time  repudiate  that  part  of  your  statement  and  want 
to  take  it  out  of  your  statement  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  By  no  means  do  I  wish  to  repudiate  that  statement.  I 
want  to  point  oiit  that  my  refusal  to  answer  questions  on  the  ground 
of  possible  self-incrimination  involves  no  hesitation  or  shame  on  my 
part.  The  fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  is  designed  not  to 
])rotect  the  guilty  but  to  protect  the  innocent,  especially  from  charges 
leveled  and  discussed  under  conditions  of  near  hysteria  such  as  have 
surrounded  the  w^hole  handling  of  these  hearings  in  the  press  and 
elsewliere. 

Mr.  McDowell.  A  parliamentary  inquiry,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  McDowell. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Do  I  understand  it  to  be  the  ruling  of  the  Chair 
that  this  fifth  paragraph  remain  in  tlie  statement  and  that  it  become 
an  ofhcial  part  of  the  records  of  this  committee  and  that  if  these  charges 
are  proven,  Mr.  Perlo  is  subject  to  prosecution  for  perjury? 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  McDowell,  I  am  not  a  parliamentarian  and  I 
Avill  just  have  to  give  my  humble  opinion.  My  opinion  is  he  would  be 
subject  to  perjury. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  in  that  connection,  if  the  committee 
is  considering  possible  i)erjury,  I  suggest  that  a  direct  question  be  put 
to  the  witness  and  a  direct  reply  made.  In  making  the  general  state- 
ment— I  am  not  sure  it  would  come  within  the  category  of  perjury. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Nixon  has  the  floor. 

You  may  proceed. 

Mr.  Nixon.  I  again  refer  you  to  your  statement : 

I  vigorously  deny  the  charges  which  have  been  leveled  against  me. 

One  of  the  charges  which  has  been  leveled  against  you  is  that  you 
gave  secret  Government  information  to  INIiss  Bentley.  Do  I  under- 
stand you  to  say  now  that  you  vigorously  deny  that  charge? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the  fifth 
amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on 
the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Then,  you  do  not  wish  to  keep  this  particular  statement 
in,  because  this  statement  is  not  true;  is  that  correct? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  695 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  wish  to  keep  the  sentence  in  the  statement. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  vigorously  deny  the  charges  made  against  you  and 
yet  you  refuse  to  testify  on  the  ground  th.at  you  may  incriminate 
yourself  when  asked  about  a  specific  charge.     Is  that  it? 

Mr.  Peklo.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  NixoN.  On  what  grounds  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or 
degrade  me. 

Mr.  Nixox.  Mr.  Perlo,  another  of  the  charges  which  has  been  leveled 
against  you  is  that  you  obtained  secret  information  from  the  agency 
in  which  you  worked  and  that  you  gave  that  information  to  miauthor- 
ized  people — namely,  to  Miss  Bentley. 

You  have  heard  those  charges  made  here  today  just  as  they  were 
made  to  the  committee  by  Miss  Bentley  in  public  session  a  few  days 
ago.  I  understand  that  now,  although  you  wish  to  have  that  state- 
ment read  into  the  record  in  which  you  deny  these  charges  categori- 
cally, without  making  any  exceptions,  nevertheless  you  will  refuse  to 
answer  "yes''  or  "no"  as  to  the  truth  or  falsity  of  the  major  charge 
against  you.     Is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  stand  on  my  rights  under  the 
fifth  amendment  to  the  Constitution  and  refuse  to  answer  the  question 
on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  Nixox.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  think  that  is  a  pretty  good  indication 
of  how  much  credence  the  committee  can  give  to  all  of  the  statements 
made  by  Mr,  Perlo  in  this  statement  that  he  is  submitting  to  the 
committee. 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  must  express  resentment  against  that  statement,  con- 
sidering that  as  a  witness  I  have  merely  stood  on  my  constitutional 
rights,  which  I  have  emphasized  before  are  designed  not  to  protect 
the  guilty  but  to  protect  the  innocent,  and  it  doesn't  seem  to  me  a 
judicial  type  of  procedure  to  rebuke  the  use  of  the  Constitution  of  the 
United  States  by  a  witness  in  a  hearing. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Perlo,  by  making  the  statement  that  you  deny  the 
charges  you,  in  effect,  are  saying  that  Miss  Bentley  perjured  hei'self. 
You  have  the  right  to  say  that  before  this  committee  if  you  can  back 
it  up  with  facts,  but  when  we  question  you  in  regard  to  what  respect 
Miss  Bentley  has  made  false  charges  against  you,  you  refuse  to  testify. 
We  are  not  attempting  to  badger  you  as  a  witness.  We  simply  want 
to  get  the  truth.  You  have  the  right  to  plead  self-incrimination  on 
any  particular  matter,  and  you  will  note  that  the  committee  has  never 
questioned  that  right,  but  certainly  now,  as  a  member  of  the  commit- 
tee, I  question  the  right  of  any  witness  to  come  before  this  committee 
and  make  the  categorical  charge  that  the  charges  made  by  another 
witness  are  false  and  still  refuse  to  answer  questions  concerning  those 
specific  major  charges. 

That  is  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Mr.  Chairman,  before  you  rule  on  that,  there  is  another 
part  of  this  fifth  paragraph  in  which  the  witness  says : 

The  Government  has  already  spent  a  half  million  dollars  on  them. 

How  do  you  know  that  to  be  a  true  statement,  Mr.  Perlo? 

Mr.  Perlo.  It  was  reported  in  various  newspaper  reports  and  I 
am  not  sure  whether  or  not  it  was  mentioned  in  President  Truman's 
statement. 


696  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  don't  know  that  of  your  own  knowledge  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  No  ;  I  don't. 

Mr.  Hebert.  But  you  make  the  statement  in  here  of  your  own 
knowledge. 

You  don't  know,  do  you? 

Mr.  Perlo.  No  ;  I  don't  know  for  a  fact  that  the  Government  has 
spent  that. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Now,  let  me  read  another  sentence  : 

A  grand  jury  sat  for  over  a  year  investigating  them  and  found  no  basis  for 
Indictments  in  ttiose  charges  despite  improper  nevs^spaper  pressure  for  such 
indictments. 

How  do  you  know  that  is  a  true  statement  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  know  that  is  a  true  statement,  the  first  part  of  it,  be- 
cause the  President  stated  that  this  was  the  case,  that  the  grand  jury 
sat  for  a  long  time  and  considered  these  charges  and  found  no  basis 
for  indictment. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Do  you  linow  of  your  own  knowledge  that  the  grand 
jury  has  found  no  basis  for  indictments? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  assume  the  President's  word  on  this  is  accurate. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  am  not  talking  about  the  President's  word.  I  am 
asking:  Do  you  know?  The  President  can  speak  for  himself,  and  I 
want  3'ou  to  speak  for  yourself.    Do  you  know  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  assume— — 

Mr.  Hebert  (interposing).  You  don't  know.  I  am  not  asking  for 
assumptions.  I  am  asking  if  you  know  that  the  grand  jury  in  New 
York  has  found  no  basis  for  indictments. 

Mr.  Perlo.  You  ask  me  if  I  know  something,  and  anything  which 
I  think  I  know  or  which  you  laiow  is  based  on  what  you  know  of  a 
situation.  What  I  know  about  the  situation  is  that  I  know  they  worked 
for  a  long  time,  just  fi'om  the  newspaper  stories  about  their  activities, 
but  they  were  working,  and  I  know  the  President  made  the  state- 
ment—— - 

Mr.  Hebert  (interposing).  I  am  not  talking  about  the  President, 
Mr.  Perlo ;  I  am  asking  what  do  you  know  about  it? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  know  these  facts  about  it,  and  these  facts  are  sufficient 
for  me  to  draw  the  conclusion 

Mr.  Hebert  (interposing).  Do  you  know  as  a  matter  of  fact  that 
the  New  York  grand  jury  has  found  no  basis  for  an  indictment  against 
you  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Sir? 

Mr.  Hebert.  Do  you  know  for  a  fact  the  New  York  grand  jury 
has  found  no  basis  for  an  indictment  against  you,  Victor  Perlo  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  think  I  am  justified  in  coming  to  that  conclusion  by 
the  actual  development  of  events ;  yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Do  you  know  that  the  New  York  grand  jury  is  still 
sitting  on  this  case  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  That  I  don't  know.  I  read  that  the  grand  jury  had 
been  recessed. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Do  you  know  that  the  grand  jury  has  never  returned  a 
no  true  bill  against  one  Victor  Perlo? 

Mr.  Perlo.  That  this 

Mr.  Hebert  (interposing).  You  know  these  other  things  so  specif- 
ically ;  why  don't  you  know  that  ? 


Mr.  Peulo.  Well,  my  answers  weren't  related  to  the  question  of  a 
no  true  bill. 

Mr.  Hebekt.  I  am  asking  you  the  question :  Do  you  know  that  the 
grand  jurj^  in  New  York  has  or  has  not  returned  a  no  true  bill  against 
you,  Victor  Perlo? 

Mr.  Peklo.  No,  sir ;  I  don't  know  that. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Then,  you  don't  know. 

Mr.  Perlo.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Then,  you  do  know  that  the  grand  jury  is  only  in 
recess  and  can  still  return  an  indictment  against  you,  Victor  Perlo? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Yes,  sir;  if  that  is  the  legal  situation,  that  is  the  case. 

Mr.  Hebert.  So  then  you  are  not  absolved  by,  as  of  this  date,  the 
fact  that  the  New  York  grand  jury  has  not  indicted  Victor  Perlo? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  don't  know  what  the  legal  status  is. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  know  all  about  the  other  legal  statutes.  I  am  just 
trying  to  find  out  what  you  know  about  this. 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  do  not  claim  to  be  a  legal  expert  about  this. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Have  j^ou  ever  appeared  before  the  New  York  grand 
jury? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  The  Chair  would  like  to  interrupt  right  there.  The 
witness  has  presented  a  statement.  The  committee  has  no  objection 
to  his  reading  the  statement.  I  think  the  witness  should  proceed  and 
read  the  statement,  and  then,  after  he  has  finished  reading  the  state- 
ment, I  think  it  would  be  proper  for  the  members  of  the  committee  to 
ask  questions  at  that  point. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Mr.  Chairman,  may  I  say  there  that  I  originally  agreed 
to  let  the  witness  read  the  statement,  but  I  want  it  thoroughly  under- 
stood in  the  witness'  own  mind  that  if  he  reads  this  statement  he  is 
reading  it  under  a  perjury  shadow,  and  I,  for  one,  will  assume  that 
if  he  denies  anything  in  here,  as  general  as  it  might  be,  that  he  is 
subject  to  perjury  charges,  and  Mr.  Nixon  has  tried  futilely  but  vigor- 
ously to  get  this  witness  to  say  specifically  what  he  means  and  what 
he  doesn't  mean.  I  do  not  believe  he  should  come  in  here  under  the 
cloak  of  a  general  politicalized  statement,  which  will  be  developed  if 
he  does  read  it  in  an  effort  to  make  a  political  speech,  in  an  effort  to 
make  statements  without  foundation,  when  he  is  given  the  opportunity 
to  back  up  his  statements  he  refuses  to  do  so  and  he  conducts  the  smear 
campaign. 

The  Chairman.  I  think  we  can  ask  the  witness  questions  after  he 
has  read  his  statement. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Chairman,  before  he  reads  his  statement,  I  want 
to  be  sure  that  the  witness  understands  his  legal  status  before  this 
committee. 

You  understand — and  you  have  counsel  available  if  you  do  not 
understand — that  the  laws  of  perjury  apply  to  the  statement  you  are 
about  to  read. 
Mr.  Perlo.  Certainly. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  understand  that  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  understand  also  that  the  charges  have  been  made 
that  you  know  Miss  Bentley.  The  charges  have  been  made  that  you 
know  Charles  Kramer.     If  you  read  this  statement  saying  specifi- 


cally  that  you  deny  all  charges  and  it  can  subsequently  be  proved  that 
you  have  known  or  met  either  Miss  Bentley  or  Mr.  Kramer,  you  are 
then  subject  to  perjury.  You  understand  that,  don't  you?  I  want  to 
know  that  you  understand  that  before  you  read  it. 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  question  whether 

Mr.  MuNDT.  There  is  no  question.  I  want  to  be  sure  you  under- 
stand your  rights  before  this  committee.  You  can  talk  to  your  counsel 
about  it. 

Mr.  Perlo.  Yes. 

(Consultation  between  Mr.  Perlo  and  Mr.  Gollobin.) 

The  Chairman.  Are  you  ready  to  answer  the  question,  Mr.  Perlo? 

(Consultation  between  Mr.  Perlo  and  Mr.  Gollobin.) 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  refuse  to  answer  this  question  on  the  ground  of  my 
constitutional  rights  under  the  fifth  amendment  in  that  answering  it 
might  tend  to  incriminate  or  degrade  me. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Nothing  about  that  answer  would  incriminate  vou.  I 
want  to  know  whether  you  understand  that  you  are  testifying  under 
the  laws  of  perjury  and  that  if  what  you  read  is  subsequently  proven 
to  be  false  in  any  respect  you  are  subject  to  the  laws  of  perjury.  Do 
you  understand  that  before  reading  your  statement? 

Mr.  Perlo.  Yes;  although  I  can't  say  that  I  agree  with  every  in- 
terpretation of  the  law  of  perjury  which  the  gentleman  makes.  In 
other  words,  let  me  give  you  an  example 

(Consultation  between  Mr.  Perlo  and  Mr.  Gollobin.) 

Mr.  Perlo.  All  right. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Counsel  doesn't  want  you  to  give  the  example.  Is  that 
right  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  will  give  it.  It  doesn't  make  any  difference.  I  am 
sure  he  won't  be  mad  at  me  for  giving  it. 

To  draw  the  thing  to  a  ridiculous  extreme,  you  can  say  that  part  of 
the  charge  was  that  I  worked  for  the  Government  in  Washington  and 
that  by  vigorously  denying  the  charges  I  am  denying  that  I  worked 
for  the  Government  in  Washington,  and  I  got  the  impression  from 
some  of  the  points  that  j^ou  made  that  this  warning  you  vrere  giving 
me  was  really  warning  me  about  things  that  were  not  essential  parts 
of  any  charges  leveled  against  me. 

Mr.  MtTNDT.  It  is  highly  essential  whether  or  not  you  have  met  Miss 
Bentley,  whether  or  not  you  have  met  Mr.  Kramer.  I  mentioned 
those  two  things  specifically.  The  matter  about  your  working  for  the 
Government  is  a  matter  of  government  and  not  a  matter  of  a  charge 
by  anybody. 

If  you  understand  fully  the  situation  in  which  you  find  yourself  and 
wish  to  read  yovir  statement  as  it  is  under  those  conditions,  you  may 
do  so. 

(Consultation  between  Mr.  Perlo  and  Mr.  Gollobin.) 

The  Chairman.  Are  all  members  willing  to  have  him  read  his  state- 
ment ? 

Mr.  Hkbert.  He  hasn't  made  up  his  mind. 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  have  made  up  my  mind,  and  I  am  ready  to  read  it  any 
time. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  have  made  up  your  mind  that  you  realize  you  are 
subject  to  perjury  if  you  make  a  statement  there  and  specifically  what 
Mr.  Mundt  and  Mr.  Nixon  has  asked  you  about — I  am  not  interested 
in  ad  absurdum  charges — I  am  interested  in  those  specific  things. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  699 

You  said  under  oath  you  did  not  know  Miss  B?ntley. 

jNIr.  Striplixg.  He  didn't  testify  to  that. 

]Mr.  Hebert.  I  mean  he  refused  to  answer  the  question.  He  woukl 
if  lie  reads  this;  that  is  what  I  want  to  point  out.     If  he  reads  that. 

Mr.  Stripling.  It  wou.kl  have  to  be  a  direct  question,  Mr.  Hebert, 
for  perjury  to  be  sustained. 

Tlie  Chairman.  Go  ahead,  ]Mr.  Perlo,  and  read  your  statement. 

(Consuhation  between  Mr.  Perlo  and  Mr.  Gollobin.) 

Mr.  Stripling.  ]\Ir.  Perlo 

The  Chairman.  Just  a  minute.     He  is  talkinjj  to  his  counsel. 

(Consultation  between  Mr.  Perlo  and  Mr.  Gollobin  resumed.) 

Mr.  Perlo.  After  consultation  with  counsel  and  in  view  of  the  inter- 
pretation which  the  members  of  the  committee,  the  detailed  interpre- 
tation which  they  make  of  the  sentence  in  question,  I  will  delete  that 
one  sentence  from  the  statement  before  reading  it. 

The  Chairman.  You  may  do  so.  That  is  the  sentence  which  begins, 
"I  vigorously  deny  the  charges"  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  That  is  right. 

The  Chairman.  You  go  ahead  and  read  now. 

Mr.  Perlo.  O.  K. 

The  Chairman.  Go  ahead,  Mr.  Perlo,  and  start  reading. 

;Mr.  Perlo.  My  name  is  Victor  Perlo.  I  was  born  in  1912  in  Queens 
County,  N.  Y.,  where  I  now  reside.  I  graduated  from  Columbia 
College  in  1931,  and  received  my  master's  degree  in  mathematics  at 
Columbia  University  the  following  year.  I  have  contributed  to  vari- 
ous technical  publications  on  economic,  statistical,  and  mathematical 
subjects.  I  did  '2  years  of  research  in  wage  and  price  economics  at 
the  Brookings  Institution. 

From  1933  through  1937  I  served  at  the  NRA  and  the  Home  Owners' 
Loan  Corporation,  helping  in  my  humble  way  to  carry  out  the  great 
New  Deal  program  under  the  leadership  of  Franklin  D.  Roosevelt. 
From  1939  through  19i7  I  served  at  the  Commerce  Department,  the 
Office  of  Price  Administration,  the  War  Production  Board,  and  the 
Treasury.  I  contributed  my  small  i)art  to  the  establishment  of  the 
price  controls  which  prevented  ruinous  inflation  during  World  War  II, 
to  the  acceleration  of  war  production  necessary  for  victory,  and  to  the 
development  of  peaceful  world  trade  after  the  war. 

I  am  now  a  consulting  economist  in  New  York,  employed  for  the 
current  campaign  by  tlie  Progressive  Party. 

The  lurid  spy  charges  of  the  Bentley  woman  and  of  Chambers  are 
inventions  of  irresponsible  sensation  seekers.  The  Government  has 
already  spent  a  half  million  dollars  on  them.  A  grand  jury  sat  for 
over  a  year  investigating  them  and  found  no  basis  for  indictments  in 
those  charges  despite  improper  newspaper  pressure  for  such  indict- 
ments. Therefore  it  is  the  height  of  legal  and  moral  impropriety 
for  this  committee  to  rake  up  these  charges  which  have  been  fully 
sifted  by  normal  judicial  processes. 

I  am  a  loyal  American  citizen,  and  I  categorically  assert  that  I  have 
never  violated  the  laws  or  interests  of  my  country. 

I  am  proud  of  my  record  of  service  to  the  people  while  in  Govern- 
ment employment. 

I  am  particularly  proud  of  my  present  opportunity  to  contribute 
to  the'  great  campaign  of  Hein-y  Wallace  for  peace,  against  inflation, 
and  for  decent  living  standards  and  full  democratic  rights  for  all 


700  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

people.  Nothing  will  deter  me  from  continuing  to  make  my  small 
contribution  to  building  an  abundant  and  prosperous  America. 

It  is  becoming  increasingly  clear  that  despite  headline  spy  sensa- 
tions, the  people  resent  the  failure  of  the  special  session  of  Congress 
to  act  on  the  urgent  problems  facing  the  country.  The  people  will 
echo  Mr.  Wallace's  call  for  more  red  meat  and  less  red  herrings. 

The  people  will  increasingly  demand  election  of  a  Congress  and 
Government  which  will  bring  prices  down  and  incomes  up,  which 
will  provide  housing,  education,  health,  and  peace. 

I  am  confident  that  public  sentiment  will  be  revolted  by  witch 
himts,  and  will  demand  instead  the  investigation  of  war  instigators, 
of  fomenters  of  race  hatred,  of  those  who  are  truly  endangering  our 
very  civilization  today. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  McDowell,  do  you  have  any  questions? 

Mr.  McDowell.  No. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Hebert,  any  questions? 

Mr.  Hebert.  No  questions. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Stripling,  do  you  have  any  more  questions? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  ask  that  the  witness  remain  under 
subpena. 

The  Chairman.  Without  objection,  it  is  so  ordered. 

You  are  excused. 

Mr.  Perlo.  All  right.  There  is  one  other  point  I  wanted  to  come 
back  to  briefly,  if  I  might. 

That  is  to  get  the  record  straight  on  aspects  of  my  Government 
employment  record  which  were  brought  into  the  testimony.  What 
is  the  name  of  this  agency  concerning  which  there  was  read  into  the 
record  a  long  description  of  its  duties,  and  so  forth  and  so  on  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  The  Resources  Protection  Board. 

Mr.  Perlo.  The  Resources  Protection  Board  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes. 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  just  want  to  state  for  the  record,  since  you  asked  me 
at  one  stage  about  my  connection  with  it,  that  as  I  said  earlier  I  don't 
remember  any  details.  This  is  probably  the  same  thing  I  have  as- 
sociated in  my  mind  as  Plant  Protection  Board,  or  something  like 
that,  with  which  I  had  very  trivial  relations  and  concerning  which 
all  this  talk  about  highly  secret  and  complicated  information,  and 
so  on.  and  so  forth,  which  were  detailed  here  and  which  I  believe  even 
Miss  Bentley  had  something  to  say  about,  I  knew  nothing  of. 

There  is  one  other  little  point  I  would  like  to  get  straight  for  the 
record. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Just  a  moment.  On  that  statement  you  just  made  do 
I  understand  that  you  indicate  you  had  no  access  to  secret  and  con- 
fidential information;  is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  didn't  say  I  had  no  access  to  any  at  all,  but  that  all 
of  these  things,  most  of  which  I  had  never  heard  of  before  that  were 
discussed  in  the  report  of  this  agency,  were — I  didn't  have  any  access  to. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  had  access  then  to  some  secret  information  ? 

Mr.  Perlo.  That  is  right,  sure. 

Mr.  Nixon.  In  that  connection  I  want  to  refer  you  just  briefly  to  this 
one  statement  in  the  statement  you  have  filed : 

I  have  never  violated  the  laws  of  my  country. 

You,  of  course,  are  familiar  with  the  law  which  makes  it  a  crime 
to  divulge  any  secret  information  to  any  unauthorized  persons.     Do 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  701 

3'Ou  mean  by  tliis  statement  that  you  have  never  divulged  any  secret 
information  to  any  unauthorized  person? 

JMr.  Perlo.  On  advice  of  counsel  I  have  to  refuse  to  answer  that 
question. 

Mr.  Nixon.  That  is  all. 

The  Chairman.  You  are  excused,  Mr.  Perlo. 

JMr.  Perlo.  May  I  make  just  one  other  point? 

The  Chairman.  Yes. 

Mr.  Perlo.  I  wisli  to  make  it  clear  that  I  came  to  this  hearing  volun- 
tarily, received  a  subpena  for  same  willingly,  and  I  would  like  to  see 
corrected  grossly  misleading  reports  which  were  contained  in  some 
of  the  more  sensational  press. 

The  Chairman.  Mv.  Perlo,  we  haven't  anything  to  do  with  that. 
The  lecord  will  stand  for  itself. 

JMr.  Hebert.  I  think  for  the  record  also  Mr.  Perlo  said  he  came 
voluntarily  to  this  committee  meeting. 

The  Chairman.  He  added  that  he  was  subpenaed. 

JMr.  Hebert.  But  he  did  not  come  to  the  committee  until  he  was 
subpenaed,  nor  did  he  ask  to  appear  until  he  was  subpenaed. 

The  Chairman.  I  think  the  record  is  clear  on  that  point. 

We  will  recess  until  2  :  30  this  afternoon. 

( Whereupon,  at  12 :  27  p.  m.,  the  committee  recessed,  to  reconvene 
at  2  :  30  p.  m.  of  the  same  day. ) 

afternoon  session 

The  Chairman.  The  committee  will  come  to  order. 

The  Chair  would  like  to  announce  that  beginning  with  tomorrow 
these  meetings  will  start  promptly  at  10  o'clock,  and  close  at  12,  and 
recess  until  2,  and  then  close  at  4  o'clock  in  the  afternoon. 

The  first  witness  this  afternoon  is  Mr.  Alexander  Koral. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  before  we  hear  from  Mr.  Koral,  I 
have  one  brief  witness,  and  I  just  want  to  ask  a  few  questions.  It 
will  not  take  too  much  time,  and  she  has  to  go  back  to  her  office. 

Miss  Burke,  would  you  please  stand  and  be  sworn. 

The  Chairman.  Will  3'OU  raise  your  right  hand,  please. 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  evidence  you  will  give  before  this 
committee  is  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so 
help  you  God  ? 

Miss  Burke,  I  do. 

The  Chairman.  You  may  sit  down. 

TESTIMONY  OF  GILDA  DE  FRANK  BURKE 

Mr.  Stripling.  Miss  Burke,  you  are  here  before  this  committee  in 
response  to  a  subpena  which  was  served  upon  you,  are  you  not  ? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes. 

JMr.  Stripling.  Will  you  please  state  your  full  name  and  present 
address. 

Miss  Burke.  Gilda  DeFrank  Burke,  Old  Dominion  Gardens,  Alex- 
andria, Va. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  are  you  employed.  Miss  Burke  ? 

Miss  BuiiKE.  War  Assets  Administration. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  have  you  been  employed  there  ? 

Miss  Burke.  March  25,  1946. 


702  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Striplinq.  How  long  have  you  been  employed  in  the  Federal 
Government  ? 

Miss  Burke.  Since  December  3, 1941. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Since  you  have  been  employed  in  the  Federal  Gov- 
ernment, were  you  ever  assigned  to  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster  as 
his  secretary? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  tell  the  committee  during  what  periods 
you  were  assigned  to  Mr.  Silvermaster  as  a  secretary  ? 

Miss  Burke.  1943,  and  from  1944  to  1946  as  his  administrative 
officer. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  1943  he  was  employed  in  the  Farm  Security  Ad- 
ministration; is  that  correct? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  1944  to  1946,  he  was  in  Surplus  Property  ? 

Miss  Burke.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Stripling,  And  you  were  his  secretary  and  administrative  as- 
sistant during  that  period  ? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  have  the  telephone  directory  or  the  finder 
which  you  used  while  you  were  employed  as  Mr.  Silvermaster's 
secretary  ? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  you  hand  it  to  me,  please  ? 

(Telephone  directory  handed  to  Mr,  Stripling.) 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  you  look  through  that  list  and  tell  me  whether 
or  not  the  name  of  Frank  Coe  appears  therein  ? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  Mr.  Silvermaster  ever 
communicated  with  Frank  Coe  ? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  you  also  look  in  that  list  and  tell  me  whether 
the  name  B.  Gold  or  Bela  Gold  appears  ? 

Miss  Burke.  YeSv  it  does. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  also  communicate  with  Bela  Gold  ? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr,  Stripling.  Will  you  also  look  up  the  name  of  Harold  Glasser? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  communicate  with  Harold  Glasser? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Harry  Magdoff  ? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  also  communicate  with  Harry  Magdoff? 

Miss  Burke,  Yes ;  he  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Is  the  name  of  Lee  Pressman  in  the  telephone  book 
finder? 

Miss  Burke,  Yes,  sir;  it  is. 

Mr.  Stripling,  Did  he  communicate  with  Lee  Pressman? 

Miss  Burke,  Yes,  sir, 

Mr.  Stripling,  Will  you  look  up  the  name  George  Silverman? 

Miss  Burke,  Yes,  sir. 

Mr,  Stripling,  Did  he  also  communicate  with  George  Silverman? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes ;  he  did. 

JNIr.  Stripling.  Will  you  look  up  the  name  William  Ullmann? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  703 

Miss  Burke.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  communicate  with  William  Ullmann? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes ;  he  did. 

Mr.  Stripling,  Is  the  name  of  Harry  Dexter  White  in  the  tele- 
phone directory? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes ;  it  is. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Is  it  listed  as  Harry  White  or  Harry  Dexter  White? 

Miss  Burke.  Just  Harry  White. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  communicate  with  Harry  White? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Is  the  name  of  David  Wahl  also  in  that  directory  ? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes ;  it  is. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  communicate  with  David  Wahl? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes ;  he  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Is  the  name  Keeney  listed  in  the  directory? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes ;  it  is. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  he  ever  communi- 
cated with  an  individual  by  the  name  of  Phillip  O.  Keeney? 

Miss  Burke.  I  have  just  Keeney  here;  I  do  not  recall  what  the 
first  name  was. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  number  does  it  give? 

Miss  Burke.  FEA-229T. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  ask  that  the  telephone  locator  be 
received  by  the  committee,  as  thei'e  will  be  subsequent  questions  about 
it  at  a  later  session,  when  several  of  these  witnesses  appear. 

Now,  I  would  like  to  ask  the  witness  one  more  question. 

The  Chairman.  Without  objection,  so  ordered. 

(The  telephone  locator  referred  to  was  received  by  the  committee 
and  will  be  found  in  the  files  of  the  committee.) 

Mr.  Stripling.  During  the  time  that  you  were  employed  as  Mr.  Sil- 
vermaster's  secretary,  did  he  ever  ask  you  or  send  you  to  deliver  a 
package  to  Lauclilin  Currie? 

Miss  Burke.  It  was  not  exactly  a  package;  it  was  in  a  letter  en- 
velope, and  I  did  deliver  it. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  did  deliver  it.  Where  did  you  deliver  this 
package,  this  envelope? 

Miss  Burke,  The  second  floor  of  the  old  State  Department  Build- 
ing. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  remember  approximately  when  you  deliv- 
ered it '. 

Miss  Burke.  It  was  while  he  was  in  Agriculture — it  must  have  been 
in  1943. 

Mr.  Stripling.  1943.    Do  you  know  what  was  in  the  envelope  ? 

Miss  Burke.  No  ;  I  do  not. 

ISIr.  Stripling.  At  that  time  did  you  type  Mr.  Silvermaster's  letters  ? 

Miss  Burke.  Yes,  sir;  I  did, 

Mr.  Stripling.  But  you  are  not  aware  of  what  was  in  this  particular 
envelope  ? 

Miss  Burke.  No,  sir, 

Mr,  Stripling.  Those  are  all  the  questions  I  have  at  this  time,  Mr. 
Chairman,  The  witness  will  be  called  back  when  Mr,  Ullmann 
testifies. 

The  Chairman.  Does  any  member  have  any  questions  ? 

Mr,  Stripling,  do  you  have  any  more  questions  ? 


704  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  Not  at  tliis  time,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  Then  you  are  excused,  Miss  Burke.  You  will  be 
called  at  a  later  date. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  we  would  like  to  get  this  information 
regarding  the  Silvermaster  case,  because  certain  witnesses  who  will 
appear  tomorrow  will  be  questioned  concerning  this. 

Several  days  ago  when  Mr.  Silvermaster  was  here,  Mr.  Hebert 
questioned  him  rather  closely  regarding  a  photo  laboratory,  or  about 
photographic  equipment,  which  was  in  the  basement  of  his  home. 
Mr.  Hebert  has  a  very  pertinent  piece  of  evidence  there  which  we 
would  like  to  receive  at  this  time. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Mr.  Chairman,  with  the  permission  of  the  committee 
I  want  to  direct  attention  to  a  copy  of  the  Washington  Star  of  Satur- 
day, May  3,  1947,  page  B-2,  which  is  the  real-estate  section  of  that 
newspaper,  and  direct  the  committee's  attention  to  an  ad  in  the  paper 
headed  "Chevy  Chase,  D.  C."  The  site  is  by  the  new  St.  John's  College, 
and  then  there  is  a  picture  of  .a  residence,  a  single  detached  residence, 
identified  by  the  street  number  5515  Thirtieth  Street  NW.,  and  the 
description  of  the  house  which  is  listed  by  Frank  S.  Phillips,  real 
estate,  priced  for  a  quick  sale,  and  Frank  Phillips,  the  real  estate  man, 
is  listed  as  being  at  927  Fifteenth  Street  NW.,  and  his  telephone 
District  1411,  and  I  read  the  description  of  the  house : 

The  interior  of  this  fine  brick  home  must  be  seen  to  be  appreciated.  Custom 
built  9  years  ago,  contains  nine  rooms  and  three  baths,  including  den  on  first 
floor,  and  four  sleeping  rooms  and  two  baths  on  the  second  floor,  containing 
completely  finished  and  heated  third  floor.  Basement  contains  maid's  room 
and  bath — 

and  I  direct  the  committee's  attention  to  the  next  description  of  the 
house — 

In  the  basement  an  excellent  photographic  room,  workshop,  gas  hot-water  heat, 
detached  garage,  slate  roof,  copper  tubing,  storm  sash,  beautiful  lot  135  feet  deep, 
with  highly  productive  vegetable  and  fruit  garden. 

I  direct  the  committee's  attention  particularly  to  the  "excellent 
photographic  room"  and  also  to  the  testimony  of  Miss  Bentley  that 
the  house  did  have  a  fine  productive  garden  in  the  back  of  the  house 
of  tlie  Silvermaster  house  that  she  knew,  visited,  and  stayed  at. 

I  ask  that  that  be  placed  in  the  record,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  It  is  in  the  record. 

The  next  witness,  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Alexander  Koral. 

The  Chairman,  Will  you  stand,  Mr.  Koral,  and  raise  your  right 
hand,  please. 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  testimony  you  are  about  to  give 
will  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help 
you  God  ? 

Mr.  Kcral.  I  do. 

The  Chairman.  Sit  down,  sir. 

TESTIMONY  OF  ALEXANDER  KORAL 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Koral,  you  have  counsel  with  you? 

Mr.  Koral.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Boston  lawyer? 

Mr.  Koral.  New  York  lawyer. 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  705 

Mr.  Praeger.  'My.  Chairman 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  you  identify  yourself,  please? 

Mr.  Praeger.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  cannot  let  that  go  unnoticed. 
Through  some  mistake  of  the  air  lines,  I  found  myself  in  that  cradle 
of  American  liberty,  Boston,  Mass.,  and  then  b}^  painful  stages  worked 
myself  down  to  AVashington. 

I  apologize  to  the  committee  for  causing  this  delay,  and  it  certainlj^ 
was  unintentional. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  fully  identify  yourself,  please,  for  the 
record  ? 

]\Ir.  Praeger.  Boston  address  or  New  York  address,  Mr.  Stripling  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Both. 

Mr.  Praeger.  Leo  Praeger,  401  Broadway,  New  York  City,  late  of 
Boston,  early  this  morning. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Koral,  will  you  please  state  your  full  name, 
and  talk  into  the  microphone. 

Mr.  Koral.  Alexander  Koral. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Koral  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  London,  England,  April  18,  1897. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  is  your  present  address  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  209  Empire  Boulevard,  Brooklyn,  N.  Y. 

ISIr.  Stripling.  Is  that  209  or  290  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  am  sorry,  290  Empire  Boulevard. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  is  your  present  occupation? 

Mr.  Koral.  Assistant  engineer  for  the  bureau  of  construction  of 
the  board  of  education  of  the  city  of  New  York. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  have  you  been  employed  there  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  Save  for  a  lay-off  of  about  21  months,  I  have  been  there 
continuously  since  January  1922. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Are  you  married,  Mr.  Koral  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  joii  have  any  children? 

Mr.  Koral.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  old  are  the  children  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  will  have  to  figure  that ;  24  is  the  oldest. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  identify  him,  please? 

Mr.  Koral.  That  is  Richard — the  full  name  is  Richard  Lee;  and 
the  younger  boy,  Gilbert  Roy,  is  a  year  and  5  months  younger. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Koral,  are  you  now  or  have  jou  ever  been  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
my  answer  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Koral,  have  you  ever  been  acquainted  with  an 
individual  known  to  you  only  as  Frank? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
the  answer  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  1939,  did  you  meet  an  individual  that  you  knew 
only  by  the  name  of  Frank? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  know  an  individual  by  the  name — the  first 
name  being  Gaik,  G-a-i-k,  and  the  last  name  S-o-v-a-k-i-m-i-a-n? 

80408 — 48 14 


706  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  KoRAL.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that  it 
may  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  that  individual  was  arrested  on  May 
5,  1941,  and  June  6,  1941.  He  was  held  on  a  warrant  as  a  Soviet  for- 
eign agent  on  $25,000  bail.  He  resided  at  Dean  Brook  at  97  Brooklyn 
Avenue,  Brooklyn.  He  was  released  and  allowed  to  return  to  the 
U.  S.  S.  R.  in  October  1941.  _  .  ^         ^ 

Mr.  Praeger.  Mr.  Chairman,  may  I  say  something  at  this  point? 
I  think  that  in  view  of  the  fact  that  this  gentleman  that  Mr.  Stripling 
has  identified  in  the  record  has  no  connection  with  Mr.  Koral  that 
the  inference  is  unfair  that  the  person  so  identified  has  any  connec- 
tion with  Mr.  Koral. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Well,  Mr.  Counsel,  I  asked  him  if  he  knew  this  in- 
dividual and  he  declined  to  answer  on  the  ground  that  it  would  tend 
to  incriminate  him. 

Mr.  Praeger.  Well,  he  stood  on  his  constitutional  rights,  which  he 
has  a  perfect  right  to  do,  and  I  think  it  is. an  unfair  way  of  presenting 
the  record  on  something. 

Mr.  MiTNDT.  The  Chair  will  say  that  there  is  nothing  to  prevent 
the  witness  from  saying  that  he  does  not  know  this  individual  and 
thus  it  would  not  be  necessary  to  answer  that  it  would  tend  to  degrade 
and  incriminate  him. 

Mr.  Praeger.  The  only  point  that  I  make,  Mr.  Chairman,  is  that 
there  can  be  an  unfair  inference,  because  by  reference  there  might  be 
some  connection  between  this  individual  and  Mr.  Koral. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  There  can  be  no  unfair  inference  if  the  witness  de- 
cides that  he  does  not  know  somebody  who  has  an  acquaintanceship 
which  might  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Praeger.  Then,  I  take  it,  Mr.  Chairman,  that  you  are  over- 
ruling my  objection  on  this  particular  point. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Praeger.  I  thank  you. 

Mr.  Stripling.  This  individual  that  you  knew  only  as  Frank,  how 
did  you  first  meet  him,  Mr.  Koral  ^ 

Mr.  KoRAL.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  did  he  tell  you  when  he  first  contacted  you? 

Ml'.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that  it 
might  tend  to  degrade  and  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  ask  you  to  become  a  courier  for  him  in  con- 
nection with  certain  work  that  he  was  performing? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that  it 
may  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Praeger.  May  I  consult  with  my  client  for  a  moment,  Mr. 
Chairman? 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  may  consult  with  him. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Koral,  do  you  laiow  Earl  Browder? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that  it 
might  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  know  or  do  you  know  Jacob  N.  Golos? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Koral,  would  you  kindly  stand,  please,  and 
turn  around. 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  707 

]Miss  Bentley,  would  you  staud  up.  please? 

(Mr.  Koral  and  Miss  Bentle3%  respectively,  comply.) 

Mr.  SxRirLiNG.  Mr.  Koral,  this  lady  in  black  standing  to  your  right 
is  Elizabeth  Bentley.  Have  you  ever  seen  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley? 
Have  you  ever  seen  her  before  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  ground  that  it  might  in- 
criminate me. 

]Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley? 

Mr.  Koral.  INIay  I  turn  around? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes. 

Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  aiiswer  on  the  ground  that  it  might  incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  contact  any  individuals  in  Washington, 
D.  C,  in  October  194:5,  as  a  result  of  the  instructions  received  from 
an  individual  known  to  you  as  Frank? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  ground  that  it  might  in- 
criminate me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  exchange  packages  at  that  time  wath  an 
individvial  known  to  you  as  Greg? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend 
to  incriminate  me. 

]Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  know^  an  individual  by  the  name  of  Greig 
or  Greg  in  Washington  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  ground  that  it  might  in- 
criminate me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  make  a  trip  to  Washington,  D.  C.  ? 

]Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  ground 

The  Chairman.  Just  a  minute.  I  think  that  is  something  a  little 
far  afield.  When  the  chief  investigator  asks  you  if  you  ever  made  a 
trip  to  Washington,  I  do  not  see  how  that  would  incriminate  you. 

]NIr.  Praeger.  Mr.  Chairman 

The  Chairman.  Just  a  minute.  I  am  asking  the  wntness.  You 
keep  quiet  a  few  seconds. 

How  does  that  incriminate  you? 

Mr.  Koral.  Mr.  Thomas,  I  have  been  instructed  by  my  counsel  that 
courts  have  ruled  that  what  is  considered  incriminating  is  something 
that  the  individual  that  is  being  questioned  must  answer. 

The  Chairman.  But  this  is  a  very  simple  question :  Did  you  ever 
make  a  trip  to  Washington  ?  It  could  be :  Did  you  ever  make  a  trip 
to  Boston,  or  New^  York,  or  some  other  place?  I  do  not  see  how  it 
would 

Mr.  Praeger.  Mr.  Chairman 

The  Chairman.  No. 

ISIr.  Praeger.  If  I  may 

The  CiTAiRMAN.  I  am  talking  to  the  witness.  Now,  you  just  keep 
quiet  for  a  few  seconds,  and  then  we  will  let  you  talk. 

Mr.  Praeger.  The  reason  I  attempted  to  interject  myself  at  this 
point 

The  Chairman.  I  said  :  You  will  please  be  quiet. 

Nov,-,  you  go  ahead,  Mr.  Witness.  How  does  that  incriminate  you? 
In  what  way  would  the  trip  to  Washington  incriminate  you? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  am  not  a  lawyer,  Mr.  Thomas,  and  I  have  placed  my 
legal  case  in  the  hands  of  an  attorney ;  I  respect  his  judgment. 


708  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

The  Chairmmst.  Then,  you  refase  to  answer  that  question  on  the 
ground  that  it  will  incriminate  yon  because  you  have  been  advised  to 
answer  it  that  way ;  is  that  it  ? 

Mr.  Pkaeger.  Mr.  Chairman,  if  I  may 

The  Chairman.  No;  just  a  minute. 

Now,  I  will  ask  you  the  question :  Have  you  ever  made  a  trip  to 
Washington? 

Mr.  KoRAL.  The  same  answer,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  That  it  will  incriminate  you  if  you  answer  it  that 
waj^  ? 

Mr.  KoRAL.  It  may  incriminate  me. 

The  Chairman.  And  that  you  answer  it  that  way  because  you  have 
been  advised  by  counsel  to  answer  it  that  way  ? 

Mr.  KoRAL.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Go  ahead,  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Strxpling.  Have  you  ever  made  a  trip  to  Niagara  Falls.  Mr. 
Koral? 

Mr.  Praeger.  Mr.  Chairman 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  want  him  to  answer  the  question. 

Have  you  ever  made  a  trip  to  Niagara  Falls? 

Mr.  KoRAL.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that  it 
might  inci-iminate  me. 

Mr.  Chairman,  may  I  say  something  at  this  point? 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  want  to  make  a  statement  ? 

Mr.  KoRAL.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  You  have  a  written  statement  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  No,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  have  a  written  statement  that  you  would 
like  to  present? 

Mr.  KoRAL.  No,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Don't  you  think  it  would  be  better  for  the  chief 
investigator  to  continue  the  questioning,  and  then  you  can  make  your 
statement? 

Mr.  Koral.  All  right. 

The  Chairman.  Proceed,  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  receive  a  package  from  an  individual 
by  the  name  of  Grig,  G-r-i-g  or  G-r-e-g,  in  Washington,  D.  C.  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  ground  that  it  might  incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  receive  any  money  for  transporting  a  pack- 
age from  Washington,  D.  C,  to  Brooklyn,  N.  Y.  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  ground  that  it  might  incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Gerhart  Eisler  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  ground  that  it  might  incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  am  ready  for  the  witness  to  make 
a  statement,  so  far  as  I  am  concerned. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Witness,  would  you  like  to  make  a  statement  at 
this  point? 

Mr.  Koral.  No,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Proceed,  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  have  here  a  picture  which  was 
taken  by  the  Acme  Photo  and  which  appeared  in  the  Washington 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  709 

Tiiiies-Heiald  on  Thursday.  August  5.  This  picture  was  taken  on 
August  4,  1948,  Avhen  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster  appeared  before 
tlie  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities. 

The  caption  in  this  picture  states :  "Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster, 
former  otlicial  of  the  Board  of  Economic  Warfare,  is  shown  as  he 
testified  before  the  House  Un-American  Activities  Committee  yester- 
day." 

I  show  you  this  picture,  Mr.  Koral,  and  ask  you  if  you  have  ever 
seen  tliis  individual  [showing  Mr.  Koral  a  photograph]  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  on  the  ground  that  it  might  incrimi- 
nate me. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  That  is  all  that  I  have  of  the  witness.  Those  are  all 
of  the  questions  that  I  have  of  the  witness,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  :Mr.  Mundt  ? 

Mr.  Mundt.  No  questions. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  McDowell? 

]Mr.  McDowell.  No  questions. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Hebert? 

Mr.  Hebert.  ]\Ir.  Koral,  have  you  ever  given  a  statement  in  connec- 
tion with  your  activities  in  the  so-called  espionage  ring  to  the  Gov- 
ernment ? 

Mr.  Praeger,  ]\Ir.  Chairman,  may  I  again  object  to  that  question 
at  this  point  ?     Anything  that  has  gone  on 

Tlie  Chairman.  No,  no,  no. 

Mr.  Praeger.  Just  a  moment,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  It  is  up  to  the  witness  to  object,  not  counsel,  and 
Avill  counsel  please  be  quiet  while  members  of  the  committee  are  in- 
terrogating this  witness. 

Proceed,  Mr.  Hebert. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Mv.  Koral,  have  you  ever  given  a  statement  to  the 
Government  in  connection  with  j^our  activitie's  in  what  is  known  as 
the  espionage  ring  in  cooperation  with  tlie  Kussian  Government? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  testified  before  the  grand  jury. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Wait  now.  I  do  not  want  you — you  cannot  tell  what 
you  said  before  the  grand  jury.  I  am  not  asking  you  to  say  that.  I 
am  not  identifying  any  individual.  I  said  "the  Government,"  and 
I  do  not  want  you  to  violate  the  rules  of  the  grand  jury,  as  I  under- 
stand them. 

I  asked  you :  Have  vou  ever  given  a  statement  to  the  Government 
in  connection  with  your  activities  of  an  espionage  ring  as  related 
to  the  Soviet  or  the  Russian  Government? 

Mr.  Praeger.  Mr.  Hebert,  I  wish  you  would  clarify  your  question. 
>Vnien  you  say  "Government,"  I  frankly  could  not  answer  that  ques- 
tion, because  I  do  not  know  what  branch  of  the  Government  you  are 
referring  to. 

The  Chairman.  Now,  Mr.  Counsel,  I  just  told  you  before  that  you 
will  please  be  quiet.  This  witness  can  ask  that  the  question  be  clari- 
fied, not  you. 

Mr.  Praeger.  May  I  ask,  Mr.  Chairman,  if  I  may  consult  with  my 
client  ? 

The  Chairman.  I  just  want  you  to  be  quiet. 

Mr.  Praeger.-  I  have  a  request  to  make  of  the  Chair. 


710  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

The  Chairman.  Well,  if  you  have  a  request  to  make  of  the  Chair, 
you  just  wait  a  little  while.  There  is  a  question  which  has  been  asked 
of  this  witness. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  may  say,  Mr.  Chairman,  that  I  appreciate  counsePs 
attempt  to  protect  his  client,  but  at  the  same  time,  the  Chair  is  in 
this  instance,  and  the  committee's  attitude  at  all  times,  has  been  that 
counsel  could  confer  with  his  witness  and  not  answer  for  his  witness. 

Mr.  Praeger.  I  appreciate  that. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Because  there  is  no  attempt  here  at  any  time  to  cut 
off  the  witnesses  from  having  the  advice  of  counsel.  That  is  clearly 
understood,  and  the  chairman  has  so  ruled  in  each  instance  in  order 
to  keep  it  within  the  lines  of  our  accepted  manner  of  testimony. 

Now,  Mr.  Koral,  I  again  ask  you :  Did  you  ever  make  a  statement 
to  the  Government  in  connection  with  your  activities  as  a  member 
of  an  espionage  ring  as  related  to  the  Soviet  or  Russian  Government? 

Mr.  K(»RAL.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that  it 
might  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  now  ask  you,  Mr.  Koral,  if  at  any  time,  at  any  time, 
you  ever  signed  any  statement  confessing  to  your  part  in  the  espionage 
ring  as  related  to  tlie  Soviet  Government  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  decline  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  do  not  deny,  it,  then,  that  you  may  have  signed 
such  a  statement,  to  anybody.  Government  or  otherwise — any  state- 
ment ? 

Mr.  Koral.  Is  that  a  question,  Mr.  Hebert? 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  asked  you  that  as  a  question. 

Mr.  Koral.  The  same  answer,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  do  not  deny  it,  then,  on  the  ground  that  it  might 
incriminate  you  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  do  deny  on  the  ground  that  it  might  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Then  you  deny  that  you  ever  signed  such  a  state- 
ment ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  refuse  to  answer  the  question  on  the  ground  that  it 
might  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Then  you  do  not  deny  it  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  neither  deny — I  neither  deny  or  affirm ;  I  simply  am 
iiot  answering  the  question. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  neither  deny  nor  affirm  that  you  have  signed  a 
confession  about  your  activities  on  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to 
incriminate  you  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  am  not  a  lawyer,  and  I  cannot  unravel  the  intricacy  of 
that  question. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  am  not  a  lawyer,  either;  and  I  am  not  trying  to 
involve  you.  I  am  trying  to  ask  you  a  simple  question,  because  if  I 
told  you,  Mr.  Koral,  that  I  know  you  signed  a  confession,  what  would 
you  say  to  that  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  would  not  say  anything  about  that. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  would  keep  quiet  on  that.  You  would  not  deny 
it  or  affirm  it.  Then,  I  say  to  you,  Mr.  Koral,  that  I  have  every  reason 
to  know  that  you  did  sign  a  confession.  Do  you  still  want  to  stand 
on  your  constitutional  rights  and  not  have  this  opportunity  of  denying 
it  and  proving  that  you  did  not  sign  such  a  confession  ? 

Mr.  Koral.  I  will  stand  on  my 'constitutional  rights. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  711 

Mr.  Hebert.  Then,  I  will  leave  it  this  way,  that  I  know  from 
good  authority  that  you  did  sign  a  confession. 

That  is  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  CiiAiKMAN.  Mr.  Nixon,  do  you  have  any  questions? 

Mr.  Stripling^ 

]Mr.  Stripling.  I  have  no  questions,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  You  are  excused. 

Mr.  Strh'ling.  Not  excused.  We  want  him  to  remain  under  subpena. 
We  will  call  liim  when  he  is  needed.  We  will  notify  him  and  give 
him  o  days'  notice. 

The  Chairman.  You  are  under  subpena,  and  we  will  call  j^ou  when 
we  want  you  again. 

j\Ir.  KoRAE.  Thank  you. 

The  Chairman.  The  next  witness. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Kussell. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Russell,  wnll  j^ou  be  sworn  ? 

Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  testimony  3'ou  are  about  to  give 
will  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help 
you  God  ? 

Mr.  Russell.  I  do. 

TESTIMONY  OF  LOUIS  J.  RUSSELL 

Mr.  Stripling.  My.  Russell,  you  are  an  investigator  for  the  Com- 
mittee on  Un-American  Activities? 

Mr.  Russell.  I  am. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  have  you  been  a  member  of  the  investi- 
gative staff  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities? 

Mr.  Russell.  Since  May  1945. 

Mr.  Stripling  Were  you  ever  connected  with  the  Federal  Bureau  of 
Investigation? 

Mr.  Russell.  I  was  for  a  period  of  10  years. 

Mr.  Stripling.  As  a  special  agent  ? 

Mr.  Russell.  I  was. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Have  you,  as  an  investigator  for  this  committee, 
along  with  other  investigators  attached  to  the  committee,  conducted 
an  investigation  regarding  certain  persons  connected  with  an  espionage 
ring  operating  between  New  York  Cit}^  and  Washington,  D.  C.  ? 

Mr.  Russell.  I  have. 

Mr.  Stripling.  During  the  course  of  the  investigation,  did  you  and 
other  investigators  for  the  committee  receive  any  information  regard- 
ing Alexander  Koral,  and  his  participation  in  espionage  activities? 

Mr.  Russell.  Yes ;  we  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  give  the  committee  a  summary,  deleting 
certain  confidential  information,  regarding  Alexander  Koral,  and  his 
connection  with  an  individual  by  the  name  of  Frank,  and  an  individual 
by  the  name  of  Greg,  who  will  be  subsequently  identified. 

Mr.  Russell.  Yes ;  I  will.  Alexander  Koral  was  born  in  London, 
England,  on  April  18,  1897,  and  came  to  the  United  States  during 
the  year  1900.  Koral  resides  at  290  Empire  Boulevard,  Brooklyn, 
N.  Y.  He  is  employed  by  the  New  York  City  Board  of  Education  in 
Brooklyn,  N.  Y. 

During  the  year  1939,  Koral  was  approached  by  a  man  named 
"Frank,''  who  told  him  that  mutual  friends  had  advised  him  that  he, 


712  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Koral,  was  in  need  of  funds.  Koral  at  the  time  of  this  contact  had  a 
son  who  was  ill,  and  had  a  large  amount  of  hospital  and  medical  bills. 
Koral  subsequently  became  a  courier  for  Frank  and  made  12  contacts 
for  him.  These  contacts  were  made  with  persons  known  to  Koral  as 
Al,  George,  or  Henrj^,  at  several  different  places.  The  contacts  were 
made  at  a  seafood  restaurant  located  south  of  Eighty-sixth  Street  and 
Lexington  Avenue,  One  Hundred  and  Thirty-fifth  Street  and  Third 
Avenue,  and  at  Broadway  and  Ninety-sixth  Street. 

Mr.  Stripling.  These  are  all  in  New  York  City  ? 

Mr.  Russell.  Yes,  sir.  When  these  contacts  were  made,  Koral 
would  carry  a  magazine,  such  as  Time  or  Life,  and  the  persons  con- 
tacted by  Koral  would  also  carry  a  copy  of  the  same  magazines.  The 
persons  contacted  by  Koral  at  the  request  of  the  person  known  by 
Koral  as  Frank  would,  during  the  contact,  turn  over  to  Koral  certain 
unidentified  material,  in  a  box  or  a  package,  similar  to  a  candy  box. 

Koral  would  then  take  the  package  home,  and  Frank  would  come 
by  and  pick  it  up. 

In  October  1945  Koral  was  aproached  by  Frank,  who  told  him  that 
he  wanted  him  to  go  Washington,  D.  C,  and  meet  a  man  whom  he 
called  Grig.  The  contact  was  to  be  made  in  front  of  a  movie  house. 
Koral  made  the  trip  to  Washington  and  contacted  Greg  and  Greg's 
wife  in  front  of  a  movie  house,  in  accordance  with  Frank's  instructions. 
Koral  turned  a  package  over  to  Greg  during  his  contact  and  received 
one  from  him  in  return.  Koral  carried  the  package  back  to  New  York 
City  and  turned  it  over  to  Frank. 

Koral,  when  this  contact  was  made  with  Greg,  used  the  name  "Al." 
The  man  and  woman  whom  Koral  contacted  in  Washington  in  October 
1945  were  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster  and  his  wife,  Helen. 

In  December  1945,  upon  instructions,  Koral  again  returned  to  Wash- 
ington and  met  Greg  in  accordance  with  a  prearranged  plan.  Upon 
the  occasion  of  this  meeting  Koral  advised  Greg  that  there  would  be 
no  more  visits  upon  instructions  receiA^ed  from  Frank. 

Upon  the  occasion  of  this  meeting  Koral  received  a  package  from 
Greg  and  returned  to  his  home  at  290  Empire  Boulevard,  Brooklyn, 
N.  Y. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  Frank  subsequently  pick  up  the  package? 

Mr.  EussELL.  Yes ;  2  days 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  many  clays  later  ? 

Mr.  Russell.  Two  days  later. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  this  the  last  contact  that  he  had  with  Frank? 

Mr.  Russell.  That  is  the  last  known  contact. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  receive  any  funds  from  Frank? 

Mr.  Russell.  Koral  was  paid  by  Frank  upon  six  different  occasions 
for  the  work  which  he  had  performed  as  a  courier  for  Frank. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  did  he  receive  this  money  ? 

Mr.  Russell.  It  was  usually  paid  in  $10  bills. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  much  money  did  he  receive? 

Mr.  Russell.  The  exact  amount  is  unknown  to  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Approximately  how  much  did  he  receive  or  do  you 
know? 

Mr.  Russell.  I  do  not  know  the  exact  amount  or  the  approximate 
amount. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Go  ahead,  Mr.  Russell. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  713 

Mr.  Russell.  The  additional  information  is  that  Koral  thought  the 
material  which  he  delivered  and  collected  for  Frank  contained  infor- 
mation regarding  Government  contracts. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Now,  Mr.  Chairman,  there  is  certain  other  infor- 
mation which  we  have  regarding  Mr.  Koral,  which  we  desire  to  keep 
in  confidence  at  this  time,  because  of  certain  future  witnesses  wdio  are 
to  appear. 

The  Chairmax.  Without  objection,  so  ordered. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Are  there  any  questions  of  Mr.  Russell  ? 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Nixon. 

Mr.  Nixon.  No  questions. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  McDowell. 

Mr.  McDowell.  No  questions. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Mundt. 

Mr.  Mundt.  No  questions. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Hebert. 

Mr.  Hebert.  No  questions. 

The  Chairman.  I  have  no  questions. 

Mr.  Stripling.  The  next  witness,  Mr.  Chairman,  will  be  Duncan 
Lee. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Stripling,  would  you  come  up  here,  please  ? 

(Discussion  off  the  record.) 

The  Chairman.  The  Chair  would  like  to  announce  that  it  will  be 
impossible  to  finish  with  Mr.  Lee  this  afternoon,  so  we  are  going  to 
ask  Mr.  Lee  to  wait  over  until  tomorrow  morning  at  10  o'clock,  and 
the  members  will  go  into  executive  session  down  in  their  chambers  on 
the  second  floor. 

We  will  meet  at  10  o'clock  tomorrow  morning.  The  meeting  is 
adjourned. 

(Whereupon,  at  3:  25  p.  m.,  the  committee  adjourned,  to  reconvene 
at  10  a.  m.  of  the  following  day,  Tuesday,  August  10,  1948.) 


HEAEINGS  KECtAEDING  COMMUNIST  ESPIONArxE  IN 
THE  UNITED  STATES  GOYEKNMENT 


TUESDAY,   AUGUST    10,    1948 

United  States  House  of  REPRESENTATn^s, 

Special  Subcommittee  of  the 
Committee  on  Un-American  Activities, 

Washington^  D.  G. 

The  subcommittee  met.  pursuant  to  call,  at  10  a.  m.,  in  the  caucus 
room.  Old  House  Office  Building,  Hon.  J.  Parnell  Thomas  (chair- 
man) presiding. 

Committee  members  present :  Representatives  J.  Parnell  Thomas 
(chairman),  Karl  E.  Mundt,  John  McDowell,  and  F.  Edward 
Hebert. 

Staff  members  present:  Robert  E.  Stripling,  chief  investigator; 
Louis  J.  Russell,  William  A.  Wheeler,  investigators;  Benjamin  Man- 
del,  director  of  research;  and  A.  S.  Poore,  editor,  for  the  committee. 

The  Chairman.  The  meeting  will  come  to  order.  The  record  will 
show  Mr.  ]\IcDowell  is  present,  Mr.  Hebert  is  present,  Mr.  Thomas  is 
present.    The  subcommittee  is  sitting. 

The  chair  wishes  to  announce  that  just  as  soon  as  our  committee  sub- 
penas  are  served  on  Mikhail  I.  Samarin  and  his  wife,  the  committee 
will  announce  that  the  subpenas  have  been  served.  At  the  present  time 
the  subpenas  are  out  but  the  subpenas  have  not  yet  been  served  at  this 
minute. 

Mr.  Stripling,  the  first  witness. 

]Mr.  Stripling.  Duncan  Lee. 

The  Chaieman.  Mr.  Lee,  take  the  stand,  please.  Raise  your  right 
hand. 

]Mr.  Lee,  do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  testimony  you  will  give 
before  this  committee  is  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but 
the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  do.. 

The  Chairman.  Sit  down. 

Mr.  Stripling,  your  witness. 

TESTIMONY  OF  DUNCAN  CHAPLIN  LEE 

Mr.  Lee.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  have  a  brief  statement  which  I  would  like 
to  read  to  the  committee. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Just  a  moment.  We  will  take  that  under  consid- 
eration. 

Will  you  please  state  your  full  name,  Mr.  Lee? 

Mr.  Lee.  Duncan  Chaplin  Lee. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  and  where  were  you  born  ? 

715     • 


716  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Lee.  Nankiiio-,  China,  December  19,  1913. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  are  here  before  this  committee  in  response  to 
a  siibpena  served  upon  you  by  Eobert  Gaston  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Tliat  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  come  to  the  United  States,  Mr.  Lee? 

Mr.  Lee,  The  firet  time  I  came  to  the  United  States  I  was  about  6 
months  old..    That  would  put  it  in  the  spring  of  1914,  I  imagine. 

Mr.  Steipling.  Can  you  give  the  committee  a  resume  of  your  educa- 
tional background  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir.  I  went  to  various  elementary  schools.  I  attended 
the  Woodbury  Forest  School  in  Virginia,  then  went  to  Yale  for  4 
years  where  I  took  a  B.  A.  degree  in  1935.  I  was  then  selected  a 
Rhodes  scholar  to  Oxford  from  Virginia  and  studied  there  for  3 
years,  taking  both  the  B.  A.  degree  in  jurisprudence  and  a  bachelor 
of  civil  law  degree.  I  spent  1  year  doing  graduate  work  at  the  Yale 
Law  School.    I  think  that  pretty  well  winds  it  up. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Were  you  ever  employed  in  the  Federal  Govern- 
ment? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir.  I  was  employed  in  the  Federal  Government  for 
1  month  in  the  Office  of  Strategic  Services  as  a  civilian  and  I  was  in 
the  Army  for  nearly  4  years. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  first  enter  the  Office  of  Strategic 
Services  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Around  the  1st  of  July  1942. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  enter  the  Army  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Around  the  1st  of  August  of  the  same  year. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  receive  a  commission  when  you  entered 
the  Army  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr,  Stripling,  What  was  the  commission  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  As  a  first  lieutenant. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  you  were  discharged  what  was  your  com- 
mission ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Lieutenant  colonel. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  spend  all  of  your  Army  career  in  the  OSS, 
attached  to  OSS  ? 

Mr,  Lee,  That  is  correct,  sir, 

Mr.  Stripling.  Since  you  left  the  Army,  where  have  you  been  em- 
ployed ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  have  been  practicing  as  a  lawyer  independently  in  Wash- 
ington since  I  left  the  Army, 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  is  your  business  address  in  Washington? 

Mr.  Lee.  1016  Investment  Building.  That  is  my  present  address, 
I  have  had  several. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Are  you  married,  Mr.  Lee? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir, 

Mr.  Stripling.  Any  children? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir;  four, 

Mr,  Stripling,  What  is  your  wife's  name  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Isabelle  Scott  Lee.     Her  maiden  name  was  Gibb. 

Mr.  SiTJiPLiNG.  Are  you  acquainted  with  a  person  named  Mary 
Price? 

Mr.  Lee,  I  am,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  first  meet  Mary  Price  ? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  717 

Mr.  Lee.   I  tliink  probably  in  1940—1939  or  1910. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Are  yon  acquainted  with  a  person  by  the  name  of 
Elizabeth  T.  Bentley? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  am  acquainted  with  a  person  who  I  now  understand  is 
Miss  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley;  yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Can  you  identify  Miss  Bentley?  Miss  Bentley,  will 
you  please  stand? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes;  I  identify  her. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Is  that  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  She  wasn't  known  as  that  to  me,  but  I  understand  that  is 
her  name. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  did  you  know  her  as?     By  what  name? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  knew  her  by  the  name  of  Helen  Grant. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Helen  Grant? 

]Mr.  Lee.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  first  meet  Helen  Grant? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  think  it  was  in  October  1943,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  did  you  meet  her  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  At  the  home  of  Miss  Mary  Price. 

IMr.  Stripling.  Where  was  Mary  Price  residing  at  that  time? 

Mr.  Lee.  She  had  an  apartment  on  H  or  I  Street  near  Twenty-first — 
near  Twentieth  or  Twenty-first. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  show  you  a  photograph  of  2038  I  Street  and  ask 
you  if  this  was  where  Mary  Price  resided  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  believe  it  was. 

Mr.  Stripling.  On  the  third  floor  at  2038  I  Street  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is  correct,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  met  Mary  Price  at  this  point  ? 

]Mr.  Lee.  No ;  I  met  Mary  Price  in  New  York. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  meet  Miss  Elizabeth  Bentley  at  this  apart- 
ment ? 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is  correct,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  many  times  did  you  meet  Elizabeth  T.  Bent- 
ley? 

Mr.  Li.E.  I  think  my  wife  and  I  knew  Miss  Bentley  over  a  period  of 
about  a  year  and  a  quarter.  Exactly  how  many  times  we  saw  her 
during  that  time  I  am  not  certain.     I  would  say  perhaps  15  times. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  well  did  you  know  Mary  Price  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  She  was  a  good  friend  of  both  my  wife  and  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  was  she  employed  at  the  time  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  At  the  time  I  first  met  her,  which,  as  I  say,  was  in  1940, 
I  believe,  in  New  York,  I  think  she  was  employed  as  secretary  to  Mr. 
Walter  Lippmann. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  Miss  Price  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  wouldn't  know,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Are  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Have  you  ever  been  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr,  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Have  you  ever  been  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Political  Association? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 


718  '  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  Have  you  ever  been  a  member  of  tlie  Young  Com- 
munist League  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  STRipr:iNG.  Did  you  ever  pay  any  dues  to  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  pay  any  dues  t,o  Helen  Grant  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  relate  to  the  committee  the  various  ad- 
dresses that  you  lived  at  in  Washington,  D.  C.  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  As  well  as  I  can,  sir.  I  lived  at  only  two  addresses,  that 
is,  where  I  actually  had  a  house  or  had  an  establishment,  I  rented  a 
room  when  I  first  came  to  Washington  near  Eighteenth  and  Colum- 
bia Road  for  a  few  months  until  I  found  an  apartment.  That  apart- 
ment was  on  Dent  Place,  the  exact  number  I  am  not  sure  of.  It  was 
about  half  a  block  to  the  west  of  Thirtieth  Street. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Can  you  tell  me  at  which  one  of  these  places  j^ou 
resided  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  3014  Dent  Place.    The  two  look  exactly  alike. 

Mr.  Stripling.  There  are  two  apartment  houses  which  are  iden- 
tical, Mr,  Chairman.  One  is  at  3014  Dent  Place,  and  the  other  is 
3020  Dent  Place,    One  is  the  Irving,  and  the  other  is  the  Holmes. 

Now,  I  will  ask  you,  Mr.  Lee,  which  of  these  apartment  houses  did 
you  live  in  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  The  Irving,  the  one  nearest  Thirtieth  Street. 

Mr.  Stripling.  3014  Dent  Place  NW.  Did  you  live  in  apartment 
18? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  believe  that  is  right,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  At  3020  Dent  Place  NW.  ? 

Mr.  Lee,  3014. 

Mr.  Stripling,  Yes,    Four  flights  up? 

Mr,  Lee,  That  is  right, 

Mr,  Stripling.  You  enter,  turn  to  your  right,  go  up  four  flights 
of  stairs,  turn  to  your  left,  and  it  is  the  last  apartment ;  is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Lee,  That  is  right, 

Mr,  Stripling,  Consisting  of  a  living  room,  medium-sized  dining 
room,  kitchen,  bedroom,  and  bath ;  is  that  cori-ect  ? 

Mr,  Lee.  There  were  two  bedrooms,  I  believe. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Two  bedrooms  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  meet  Helen  Grant  or  Elizabeth  T. 
Bentley  at  that  apartment? 

Mr,  Lee,  She  came  to  visit  us  there ;  yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  many  times? 

Mr.  Lee.  At  the  apartment  I  wouldn't  be  prepared  to  say,  I  think 
seven  or  eight  times. 

Mr,  Stripling,  Where  else  did  you  live  in  Washington? 

Mr.  Lee.  1522  Thirty-first  Street  NW, 

Mr,  Stripling,  Is  this  a  photograph  of  the  residence  in  which  j'ou 
resided  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is,  sir, 

Mr,  Stripling.  Did  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley  or  Helen  Grant  ever 
meet  you  at  1522  Thirty-first  Street? 

Mr,  Lee,  I  believe  she  did ;  yes,  sir. 

Mr,  Stripling.  How  many  times? 

Mr,  Lee,  I  would  say  only  a  couple  of  times. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  719 

]\Ir.  Stripling.  I  band  you  a  photograph  and  ask  you  if  you  can 
identify  this  individuaL 

Mr.  Lee.  I  am  not  certain,  Mr.  Stripling,  but  I  think  I  dp. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Who  is  this  individual? 

Mr.  Lee.  He  was  the  friend  of  ISIiss  Bentley,  who  I  met  on  two 
occasions  very  casually  in  her  company. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  was  his  name  when  you  met  him? 

Mr.  Lee.  His  name  was  John  something  or  other.  His  last  name 
escapes  me.      I  understand,  though,  it  was  Golos, 

Mr,  Stripling.  Jacob  N.  Golos? 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is  what  I  understand. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  did  you  meet  him? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  met  him,  I  believe,  first  at  a  restaurant  on  Fifteenth 
Street,  known  as  the  823  Restaurant. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  show  you  a  picture  of  the  823  Restaurant.  Is  that 
the  place  you  met  Golos? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir ;  that  is  my  recollection. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Lee,  I  show  you  a  picture  of  Georgetown  Phar- 
macy at  Wisconsin  Avenue  and  O  Street  Northwest,  and  ask  you  if 
you  ever  met  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley  or  Helen  Grant  at  this  pharmacy? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  can't  say  positively,  sir.     I  believe  I  did. 

Mr,  Stripling.  You  believe  you  did  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes.     I  met  her  at  one  or  two  pharmacies  in  Georgetown. 

]\Ir.  Stripling.  I  show  you  a  picture  of  the  Triangle  Luncheonette 
at  Wisconsin  Avenue  at  Thirty-fourth  Street  Northwest,  and  ask  jou 
if  3^ou  ever  met  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley  or  Helen  Grant  at  this  place? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  believe  so ;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  many  times? 

Mr.  Lee.  Once,  as  far  as  I  know. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  show  you  a  picture  of  the  Dumbarton  Theatre  on 
Wisconsin  Avenue  at  O  Street  and  ask  you  if  you  ever  attended  this 
theater  with  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley  or  Helen  Grant? 

Mr.  Lee.  Not  to  my  recollection. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  don't  recall  attending  that? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  show  you  a  picture  of  Martin's  Restaurant  at  Wis- 
consin Avenue  and  N  Street  NW.,  and  ask  you  if  you  ever  met  Eliza- 
beth T.  Bentley  at  this  restaurant  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  believe  so  on  one  occasion. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  you  repeat  for  the  committee  the  first  time  you 
met  Miss  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  said,  Mr.  Stripling,  to  the  best  of  my  recollection  I  first 
met  Miss  Bentley  at  the  apartment  of  Miss  Price  sometime  in  October 
1943. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  she  tell  you  what  she  was  doing  when  you  first 
met  her  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  At  some  time  in  our  early  acquaintance,  probably  then,  I 
was  given  to  understand  by  Miss  Bentley  that  she  was  employed  in 
an  executive  capacity  in  some  business  in  New  York.  I  believe  she 
said  the  leather  business.  It  was  a  selling  business,  as  near  as  I  can 
recall. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  you  met  Jacob  N.  Golos,  what  were  you  told 
as  to  who  he  was  and  what  he  w' as  in  Washington  ? 


720  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Lee.  Mr.  Stripling,  may  I  go  into  a  word  of  background  in. 
reply  to  that  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes. 

Mr.  Lee.  When  I  met  IMiss  Bentley  at  Miss  Price's,  we  found  her, 
as  others  have,  attractive,  well  informed,  a  well-educated  woman.  We 
found  her  attractive  and  she  seemed  to  find  us  attractive  and  we  had 
a  pleasant  chat.  She  said  she  knew  very  few  people  in  Washington 
and  would  like  to  know  us  better  and  would  like  to  look  us  up  when 
she  next  came  to  town. 

She  did  so  some  weeks  later.  I  think  perhaps  the  second  time  she 
called  us  up  she  said  she  had  a  friend  with  her  and  would  like  to 
have  us  come  down  and  meet  her  for  drinks  at  this  823  Restaurant. 
It  is  my  recollection  that  at  that  time  we  first  met  this  man.  He 
doesn't  make  a  very  strong  impression  on  me.  He  was  quite  obvious- 
ly ill.  I  am  reasonably  certain  Miss  Bentley  described  him  as  a 
refugee  writer. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Stripling,  I  would  like  to  interrupt  a  second. 
The  record  will  show  that  Mr.  Mundt  is  present. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Lee,  will  you  explain  to  the  committee  youi 
duties  in  the  OSS  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  My  duties  fell  into  two  phases,  Mr.  Stripling.  When 
I  first  went  to  the  OSS',  I  went  partly  as  legal  adviser — assistant  gen- 
eral counsel,  I  think,  was  the  actual  title — and  partly  as  a  member  of 
the  so-called  secretariat.  That  involved  partly  administrative  work 
and  partly  legal  work. 

By  legal  work  I  mean  drawing  contracts,  negotiating  leases,  seeing 
that  the  way  we  spent  our  money  was  in  line  with  the  way  the  Gen- 
eral Accounting  Office  wanted  it  and  that  sort  of  thing. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Who  brought  you  into  OSS  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  General  Donovan. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Had  you  known  General  Donovan  before  you  en- 
tered OSS? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes ;  I  was  employed  in  his  law  firm  for  3  years. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  General  Donovan  and  the  OSS  ever  send  you 
on  a  mission  to  China  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir ;  on  two  occasions. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  were  the  dates  of  those  two  missions? 

Mr.  Lee.  The  first  was  a  3-month  period  beginning  about  the  1st  of 
July  1943  and  going  to  the  end  of  September.  On  that  occasion  I 
didn't  get  to  China. 

The  second  was  in  1945  when  I  went  out  with  General  Donovan, 
about  the  middle  of  July,  and  got  back  in  the  first  week  of  October. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  tell  Miss  Bentley  anything  that  you 
learned  in  a  confidential  capacity  while  you  were  in  OSS  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  never  discussed  it  with  her  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Why  did  you  meet  Miss  Bentley  at  the  drug  stores 
on  Wisconsin  Avenue? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  will  be  glad  to  tell  you,  sir,  but  again  I  would  like  to 
give  this  background. 

As  I  say,  wlien  my  wife  and  I  both  met  Miss  Bentley,  we  found 
her  an  extremely  attractive  person.     I  think  that  maybe  was  partly 


to 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  721 

due  to  the  fact  that  she  seemed  to  find  us  even  more  so.     We  were  glad 
to  see  more  of  lier  and  were  glad  when  she  called  ns  up. 

A^'e  saw  her,  as  I  say,  from  time  to  time  sporadically  over  a  course 
of  maybe  15  months.  For  perhaps  10  months  we  continued  to  enjoy 
Miss  13entley's  company  and  it  was  only  over  a  period  of  time  that  we 
came  to  revise  our  opinion  of  her. 

But  after  knowing  her  a  good  deal  better  than  we  did  at  first  we 
came  to  a  quite  contrary  opinion  of  ]Miss  Bentley.  We  came  to  the 
conclusion  that  she  was  a  very  lonely  and  neurotic  woman,  that  she 
was  a  frustrated  wom.an,  that  her  liking  and  apparent  ardent  liking 
for  us  Avas  unnaturally  intense.  AVe  began  to  feel  she  was  an  emo 
tional  weight  around  our  necks  and  that  really  there  was  nothing  in 
the  acquaintance  that  justified  the  intense  way  she  did  follow  us  up. 

There  was  one  other  factor  which  I  will  also  mention. 

]Mr.  Stku'lixg.  Just  a  moment.  Why  did  you  meet  her  in  the  drug 
stores  on  Wisconsin  Avenue? 

Mr.  Lee.  I-am  coming  to  that,  Mr.  Stripling.. 

]\lr.  Stripling.  All  right. 

Mr.  Lee.  One  of  the  factors  I  would  like  to  mention  is  when  we 
first  met  Miss  Bentley  she  posed  as  a  person  who  was  a  moderate 
liberal,  and  that  was  one  of  the  things  we  liked  about  her.  As  we  got 
to  know  her  better  her  views  l)ecanie  increasingly  left  wing  and  in- 
temperate and  extreme.  Frankly,  I  felt  that  it  was  a  relationship 
which  for  that  reason  might  ju'ove  embarrassing  in  my  position.  I 
didn't  want  })eople  to  say  that  a  friend  of  mine  was  talking  in  quite 
as  extreme  a  way  as  Miss  Bentley  was. 

Xow,  sir,  to  answer  your  question  specifically,  in  October  1944  or 
thereabouts  my  wife  and  I  decided  that  this  acquaintanca  had  to  be 
ended  primarily  because  Miss  Bentley  had  become  a  personal  nuisance 
to  us,  but  also  because  of  other  reasons. 

One  evening  when  she  called  on  us  I  put  it  to  her  quite  bluntly  that 
we  thought  we  should  not  see  her  any  more.  I  decided  to  put  it  on 
the  grounds  that  her  views  and  her  expressed  views  were  apparently 
a  good  deal  more  extreme  than  we  had  originally  thought. 

Now,  generally  speaking,  Mr.  Stripling,  I  don't  inquire  too  closely 
into  the  political  views  of  my  friends  and  I  consider  it  their  business, 
and  as  I  say,  in  my  position  it  seemed  to  be  a  situation  that  could  be 
c|uite  embarrassing,  and  that  is  the  way  I  put  it  to  Miss  Bentley. 

Mv.  Stkiplin(;.  When  was  that  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  This  was  about  October  of  1943, 1  think, 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  was  it? 

Mr.  Lee.  1944— excuse  me,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  was  it  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  It  would  have  been  at  our  house. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  still  want  to  know  why  you  met  her  at  the  drug 
stores. 

Mr.  Lee.  Mr.  Strijiling,  I  am  coming  to  that,  sir. 

When  we  told  Miss  Bentley  this  her  reaction  was  quite  violent.  She 
cried,  she  protested  that  we  meant  a  great  deal  to  her.  She  said  she 
was  intensely  fond  of  us  and  she  had  to  go  on  seeing  us  and  she  did 
carry  on,  if  I  may  put  it  that  way,  for  about  a  half  hour.  Finally,  she 
suggested  that,  all  right,  if  we  felt  it  was  unwise  for  her  to  continue 

8040.8—48 15 


722  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

visiting  us  at  our  home,  would  we  continue  to  meet  her  occasionally 
( lutside  at  some  public  place  ?  In  order  to  get  her  out  of  the  house,  Mr. 
Stripling,  we  agreed  to  do  it. 

Now,  after  that  I  think  we  met  Miss  Bentlej',  at  the  most,  three 
times.  I  know  that  on  one  occasion  my  wife  and  I  had  dinner  with 
her  at  Martin's  Restaurant,  and  I  believe  on  two  occasions  after  that 
Avhen  Miss  Bentley  called,  she  called  from  a  neighboring  drug  store, 
and  on  both  those  occasions  either  we  couldn't  get  a  sitter  or  my  wife 
didn't  want  to  go  out  and  simply  told  me  to  go  out  and  see  her  and 
get  rid  of  her  as  quickly  as  possible,  which  I  tried  to  do. 

Mr.  Stkiplixg.  When  3'ou  met  her  in  the  drug  stores,  did  you  walk 
up  to  her  and  greet  her? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  suppose  so,  sir.  This  was  a  long  time  ago  and  I  can't 
recall  the  exact  circumstances  of  how  I  met  her. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  many  times  did  you  meet  her  in  the  drug 
stores  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  As  far  as  I  can  recall,  only  twice. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  are  speaking  of  the  Triangle  Luncheonette? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  am  pretty  clear  that  we  had  coca  colas  once  at  the  Tri- 
angle Luncheonette, 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  many  times  did  you  meet  her  at  the  George- 
town Pharmacy? 

Mr.  Lee.  Only  once,  so  far  as  I  know. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  many  times  did  Miss  Bentley  come  to  your 
liome  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  can't  recall  that  precisely,  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  you  lived  on  Dent  Place,  how  many  times  did 
she  come  to  your  apartment? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  think  I  have  already  said  about  six  or  seven  times.  I 
can't  be  exact  on  that. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  she  first  came  to  your  apartment  did  you  ask 
your  wife  to  leave  the  room? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Ml-.  Stripling.  How  many  times  did  she  come  to  your  home? 

Mr.  Lee.  Two  or  three  times,  to  the  best  of  my  recollection.  As 
J  say,  1  cannot  recall  back  that  far  and  tell  you  exactly. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  never  gave  Miss  Bentley  any  Comnmnist  Party 
dues? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  give  her  any  contributions? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir;  I  did  not. 
•  Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  give  her  any  money  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  give  her  any  information  verbally  or 
in  written  form? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  Mr.  Stripling;  I  did  not. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  have  a  statement? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir;  t  do. 

The  Chairman.  May  we  see  the  copy  of  the  statement,  please? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  have  given  some  copies  out. 

The  Chairman.  Is  that  the  same  as  the  copy  we  saw  yesterday? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  believe  so,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  That  is  all  right,  you  may  proceed. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  723 

Mr.  Lee.  jNlr.  Chairman,  Miss  Elizabeth  Bentlej'  in  her  recent  tes- 
timony before  the  House  Un-American  Affairs  Committee  has  ac- 
cused me  of  being  a  Comnumist  and  of  supplying  her  with  secret 
information  concerning  the  OSS. 

I  want  to  say  categorically  that  I  am  not  and  have  never  been  a 
Communist  and  that  I  have  never  divulged  classified  information  to 
any  unauthorized  person.  I  had  been  an  assistant  in  the  legal  offices 
of  (leneral  Donovan  before  the  war ;  I  had  come  to  the  OSS  with  him 
as  his  assistant;  and  I  was  therefore  particularly  aware  of  a  require- 
ment of  personal  loyalty  to  him  in  such  matters  along  with  my  loyalty 
to  the  service  of  the  United  States. 

During  the  war  my  wife  and  I  met  Miss  Bentley  socially  at  the 
home  of  a  friend.  We  met  a  great  many  people  at  this  time.  There- 
after we  saw  ]Miss  Bentley  off  and  on  for  a  little  over  a  year.  Our 
acquaintance  was  entirely  a  social  one. 

I  made  it  a  rule  during  my  service  with  OSS  never  to  discuss  any- 
thing tliat  had  not  previously  appeared  in  the  newspapers,  and  then 
oidy  to  the  extent  made  public.  I  certaiidy  kept  strictly  to  this  rule 
in  any  talks  I  ever  had  with  Miss  Bentley. 

I  Avas  in  the  Army  and  in  the  OSS  for  nearly  4  years  and  during 
that  time  worked  day  and  night,  both  in  Washington  and  overseas, 
to  further  cur  war  effort.  I  am  sure  that  (xeneral  Donovan  and  the 
other  officers  under  whom  I  served  will  confirm  the  fact  that  my  war 
record  is  one  of  which  I  can  feel  justly  proud.  While  in  the  Army 
I  rose  from  the  rank  of  first  lieutenant  to  lieutenant  colonel.  I  have 
received  sevei'al  official  commendations.  I  know  that  I  have  served 
my  country  with  complete  loyalty  and  to  the  best  of  my  ability  and  it 
is  a  profound  shock  to  find  my  name  and  war  recoixl  attacked  by  the 
irresponsible  charges  of  this  woman. 

It  is  liard  for  me  to  believe  that  Miss  Bentley 's  statements  are  those 
of  a  rational  person.  In  trying  to  recall  my  acquaintance  with  Miss 
Bentley  I  have  been  puzzled  that  I  do  not  remember  that  she  ever  tried 
to  get  any  information  out  of  me.  In  view  of  that  fact  I  am  tempted 
to  believe  that  Miss  Bentley  used  her  social  relationship  with  me  merely 
to  help  her  misrepresent  to  her  employers  for  her  own  personal 
l)uild-up  that  she  had  access  through  me  to  someone  of  the  importance 
of  General  Donovan. 

Thank  you,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Going  back  to  this  meeting  you  had  with  Golos, 
Avhen  did  you  say  you  first  met  Mr.  Golos? 

Mr.  Lee.  My  impression  is  that  it  was  in  the  fall  of  194:3,  Avithin 
])erhaps  6  or  8  Aveeks  after  I  met  Miss  Bentley. 

]Mr.  Striplixg.  What  Avas  his  name  Avhen  you  met  him  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  think  it  was  John  something  or  other.  The  last  name 
I  no  longer  recall. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  meet  him  the  next  time  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Some  montlis  later  in  XeAv  York. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  did  you  meet  him  in  Xcav  York? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  met  him  at  a  restaurant.  I  didn't  know  I  was  going 
to  meet  him.  I  called  Miss  Bentley  up.  This  was  at  a  time  Avhen 
Ave  Avere  on  very  friendly  terms  Avith  Miss  Bentley.  I  gaA'e  her  a  ring, 
as  she  had  asked  me  to  do  Avhen  I  came  to  Xew  York,  and  slie  susg-ested 


•fefc^ 


724  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

tlifit  we  have  dinner  together.  When  I  fjot  to  the  restaurant  this 
man  was  there. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Were  yon  introduced  to  him  at  that  time  again? 

Mr.  Lee.  It  was  assumed  that  I  knew  him  ah-eady.  It  was  only  a 
few  months  before.  I  think  she  ma}^  have  said,  "You  will  remember 
John,"  whatever  his  name  was. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Were  you  in  uniform  at  the  time? 

Mr.  Lee.  Certainly,  sir;  I  was  always  in  uniform. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  rank  did  you  have  at  the  time? 

Mr.  Lee.  Either  captain  or  maior,  probably  major. 

Mr.  Stripling.  AVasn't  the  OSS  a  so-called  "hush-hush"  organiza- 
tion? 

Mr,  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Conducting  highly  confidential  and  secret  work  in 
the  war  effort  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  It  certainly  was;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  were  closely  associated  with  the  director  of 
OSS,  General  Donovan;  is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  make  it  a  habit  of  going  around  and  meet- 
ing people  and  having  dinner  with  people  when  you  didn't  know  who 
they  were  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  did  know  v,ho  they  were — at  least  I  thought  I  knew  who 
they  were. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  know  that  Jacob  N.  Golos  was  a  Soviet 
agent  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  did  not ;  no,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  make  an  investigation  to  determine  who 
he  was  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Mr.  Stripling,  I  don't  usually  make  investigations  to  de- 
termine who  every  casual  social  acquaintance  might  be. 

Mr.  Stripling.  But  when  you  were  a  high  official  of  the  OSS,  I 
think  it  would  be  advisable. 

Mr.  Lee.  Well,  sir,  I  will  take  your  advice  under  advisement. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  make  any  investigation  to  determine  who 
Elizabeth  T.  Bentley  was? 

Mr.  Lee.  Not  particularly.     I  had  no  reason  to. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  other  words,  j^ou  just  associated  wuth  Mary  Price, 
Elizabeth  T.  Bentley,  Jacob  Golos,  meeting  strange  people  in  drug 
stores,  and  it  didn't  make  any  difference. 

Mr.  Lee.  Mr.  Stiipling,  I  have  explained  why  I  met  Miss  Bentley 
at  drug  stores.  It  was  an  effort  to  break  an  acquaintance  as  painlessly 
as  possible. 

Now,  sir,  as  far  as  inquiring  as  to  who  Miss  Bentley  was — you  met 
]Miss  Bentley,  you  know  she  appears  to  be  a  very  cultured,  well-edu- 
cated, high-type  person.  Without  any  evidence  to  the  contrary,  I 
don't  think  there  was  any  reason  for  me  to  make  any  investigation 
of  her. 

Furthermore,  as  I  said — and  I  want  to  say  this  again — Miss  Bentley 
to  my  knowledge  never  asked  me  for  any  information  and  I  certainly 
never  gave  her  any. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  will  ask  the  witness  to  step  aside  at  this  time,  Mr. 
Chairman.     He  will  be  brought  back  to  the  stand. 

The  Chairman.  All  right.     Step  aside  for  just  a  few  moments. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  725 

Mr.  Stripling.  JNIr.  Lee,  please  sit  here  close  where  you  can  hear  the 
testimony. 

]Miss  Bentley,  will  yon  take  the  stand,  please. 

The  Chairman.  IVIiss  Bentley,  do  you  solemnly  swear  the  testi- 
mony you  are  about  to  give  will  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and 
nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  do. 

The  Chairman.  Sit  down. 

TESTIMONY  OF  ELIZABETH  T.  BENTLEY 

Mr.  Stripling.  Miss  Bentley,  are  you  acquainted  with  the  witness 
who  just  left  the  witness  stand? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes,  I  am. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Have  you  ever  seen  him  before  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes,  I  have. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  first  meet  Mr.  Duncan  Lee? 

Miss  Bentley.  To  the  best  of  my  knowledge  it  was  in  either  Janu- 
ary or  February  of  1943. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Relate  to  the  committee  the  circumstances  surround- 
ing your  first  meeting  of  Mr.  Lee. 

JNliss  Bentley.  Do  vou  want  me  to  go  into  the  background  of  it, 
Mr.  Stripling? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes. 

Miss  Bentley.  When  Mr.  Lee  secured  his  position  with  the  OSS 
in  Washington  back  in  June  or  July  of  1942 

The  Chairman.  May  I  interrupt  a  moment  ? 

Mr.  Lee,  3^ou  are  hearing  the  witness  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir;  I  certainly  am, 

The  Chairman.  Go  ahead. 

Miss  Bentley.  At  that  time  Miss  Mary  Price  was  working  for  Mr. 
Golos  and  myself.  She  was  employed  by  Mr.  Walter  Lippmann  and 
she  was  giving  us  information  which  she  had  taken  from  Mr.  Lipp- 
mann's  files.  We  had  told  Miss  Price  that  if  she  ever  found  any  likel}^ 
prospect  for  giving  information,  she  should  let  us  know. 

I  think  in  May  or  June  of  1942  she  informed  us  that  she  knew  Mr. 
Lee  through  her  sister.  Miss  Mildred  Price,  and  Mr.  Lee  was  being 
transferred  to  Washington  and  that  she  felt  he  would  be  a  good  con- 
tact for  us.  We  told  her  then  to  have  him  disconnected  from  the 
party  in  New  York  and  when  he  came  to  Washington  he  should  contact 
Miss  Price  and  keep  in  contact  with  her. 

Miss  Price  continued  to  contact  him  until  she  was  ill  with  virus 
pneumonia  in  about  December  1942,  at  which  time  she  came  to  New 
York  and  was  ill,  I  think,  2  or  3-  months.  Since  she  couldn't  contact 
Mr.  Lee,  I  went  down  to  Washington  on  one  of  my  trips,  walked  up 
to  JMr.  Lee's  apartmeiit  on  the  fourtli  floor  of,  I  think  it  is  3014  Dent 
Place,  introduced  iny;-e]f  as  Helen — he  had  previously  been  told  who 
I  was  by  Miss  Price — and  that  was  the  first  time  I  saw  him. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  explain  to  him  why  you  had  contacted  him  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  I  explained  that  since  Miss  Price  was  incapaci- 
tated and  ill,  I  would  take  her  place  temporarily. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Temporarily  doing  what? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  we  had  expected  tliat  Mary  would  recuperate 
and  come  back  to  Washington  and  renew  the  contact  with  him. 


726  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  you  first  met  Mr.  Lee,  was  anyone  present  in 
the  room  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes ;  his  wife  was  there. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  ask  her  to  leave  the  room  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  At  first  we  had  a  rather  social  chat  and  then  when 
Ave  came  to  discussing  business  he  asked  her  to  go  to  the  kitchen. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  business  did  you  discuss  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  discussed  tlie  fact  that  he  had  been  giving  infor- 
mation from  the  OSS  to  Mary  Price  and  I  said  that  I  would  continue 
witli  tliat.  I  discussed  with  him  what  type  of  information  would  be 
valuable,  and  so  on. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  were  you  at  his  apartment? 

Miss  Bentley.  The  first  time  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes. 

Miss  Bentley.  I  should  say  I  was  there  possibly  an  hour  and  a  half 
or  2  hours. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  see  him  next  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  continued  to  see  him  at  the  apartment  on  Dent 
Place  I  should  say  possibly  that  spring  before  he  went  to  China,  I 
should  say  four  or  five  times.     I  can't  be  sure  of  that. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  recall  bringing  Mr.  Golos  to  Washington 
or  meeting  Mr.  Lee? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes,  I  remember  distinctlj^  because  it  was  about  a 
month  or  so  before  Mr.  Golos  died  and  he  was  quite  an  ill  man  at  that 
time.  Mr.  Golos  died  on  November  25,  1943.  That  would  make  it 
either  the  end  of  October  or  the  early  part  of  November  of  that  year. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  occurred  at  this  meeting  between  Mr.  Lee  and 
yourself  and  Mr.  Golos? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  had  told  Mr.  Golos  about  Mr.  Lee,  and  he  thought 
that  the  ]n"ospect  was  very  interesting.  He  wanted  to  meet  him  per- 
sonally. Tlierefore,  I  had  asked  Mr.  Lee  wjiat  would  be  a  convenient 
place  for  us  to  meet  because  I  knew  he  knew  so  many  people  in  Wash- 
ington we  would  have  to  find  a  rather  obscure  place.  He  suggested 
this  German  beer  place  at  823,  Fifteenth  Street,  I  think  it  is. 

I  remember  it  distinctly  because  it  has  a  terrific  flight  of  stairs  going 
down,  and  jNIr.  Golos  had  a  bad  heart  and  I  was  worried  whether  he 
could  make  the  stairs  going  up  and  down. 

At  this  meeting  we  sat  and  I  think  we  drank  beer,  and  Mr.  Golos 
introduced  himself  as  a  high  functionary  of  the  Communist  Party, 
explained  that  they  were  very  much  interested  in  the  material  Mr. 
Lee  was  furnishing,  and  had  a  long  chat  with  him  on  the  type  of  in- 
formation that  was  available  and  what  he  should  look  for. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  Mr.  Lee  in  uniform  at  the  time? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes,  I  recall  that  he  was ;  yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Lee  referred  to  a  second  meeting  with  Mr. 
Golos  in  New  York.     Do  you  recall  that  meeting? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  don't  recall  any  such  meeting  in  New  York.  That 
was  only  about  a  month  before  Mr.  Golos  died,  you  see,  when  he  met 
him.     Mr.  (toIos  died  November  25  of  that  year. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  Mr.  Lee  ever  call  you  in  New  York  and  arrange 
a  meeting  and  dinner  at  which  Mr.  Golos  was  present  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  don't  see  how.  he  could  because  he  didn't  know  my 
telephone  number. 

Mr.  Stripling.  He  never  called  you  in  New  York? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  727 

Miss  Bentley,  No,  unless  of  course  he  was  given  it  subsequently 
by  someone  else,  but  I  never  gave  it  to  him. 

Mr.  SxRirLixG.  He  never  called  you,  as  far  as  you  know'^ 

Miss  Bentley.  Xo. 

Mr.  Stripling.  As  far  as  you  know,  he  never  met  Mr.  Golos  and 
yourself  in  a  restaurant  in  New  York? 

Miss  Bentley.  Not  that  I  recall :  no. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  ]\Ir.  Lee  ever  furnish  you  any  information  which 
you  in  turn  furnished  to  the  Russian  agents? 

]Miss  Bentley.  Yes,  he  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  type  of  information? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  would  say  it  was  various  types  of  information  that 
was  valuable  to  us.  One  type  was  checking  on  whether  the  OSS  had 
spotted  any  of  our  people  who  were  then  working  for  the  OSS. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  did  he  tell  you  about  that  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Originally  in  the  fall  of  1943  Miss  Price  had  applied 
to  the  OSS  for  a  position  there.  She  was  turned  down.  They  gave 
her  some  routine  excuse  with  no  bad  implications,  but  we  asked  Mr.  Lee 
to  check  and  find  out,  if  he  could,  the  real  reason.  He  told  us,  I  think 
2  or  3  months  later,  that  he  had  checked  through  the  files  there  and 
found  out  that  she  had  been  turned  down  because  of  past  Communist 
affiliations  and  connections. 

]Mr.  Stripling.  Did  Mr.  Lee  ever  discuss  with  you  a  meeting  at 
which  a  proposal  was  submitted  that  the  United  States  exchange  12 
OSS  agents  for  12  NKVD  agents  with  the  Soviet  Union  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  think  that  was  the  number.  It  might  have  been 
10  or  11,  but  it  was  around  that  number. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  you  tell  the  committee  the  information  you 
have  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  believe  it  was  in  the  spring  of  1944  that  I  met  him 
one  evening  outside  his  house,  I  believe,  in  one  of  the  drug  stores.  He 
was  very  much  upset  because  he  had  found  out  that  General  Donovan 
was  interested  in  making  an  exchange  of  NKVD  agents  with  OSS  men. 
He  said  this  had  been  brought  up  in  a  meeting  of,  I  should  say,  the  top 
command  of  the  country — the  top  man  from  the  Navy — Admiral  Leahy 
was  there,  J.  Edgar  Hoover,  of  the  Federal  Bureau,  was  there,  I  think 
a  representative  of  Roosevelt,  and  all  the  top  people.  He  described 
that  meeting  in  detail  to  me.  He  even  went  into  such  details  as  the 
fact  that  Admiral  Leahy  was  definitely  against  such  an  exchange. 

Mr.  Stripling.  ]Mr.  Chairman,  I  don't  think  any  interest  would  be 
served  in  relating  to  us  what  was  said  by  the  officials.  I  think  the 
committee  should  hear  that  in  executive  session. 

The  Chairman.  Without  objection,  it  is  so  ordered. 

Mr,  Stripling.  I  think  there  is  no  purpose  to  having  it  in  the  record. 

What  other  information  did  Mr.  Lee  give  you  ?  Did  he  ever  discuss 
China  policy? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  he  did.  I  believe  it  was  just  before  he  went  to 
China  in  1943  that  he  gave  us  the  information  that  the  OSS  had 
through,  I  believe,  the  Navy  in  China  made  a  deal  with  Die  Lee,  who 
was-;  at  tliat  time  head  of  the  Chinese  secret  police,  in  which  deal  Mr. 
Die  Lee  was  to  furnish  information  to  the  OSS  and  the  OSS  was  to 
provide  arms  and  money  to  Die  Lee. 

As  ]Mr.  Lee  told  it  to  me,  Mr.  Die  Lee  was  not  keeping  his  part  of 
the  bargain  and  he  was  getting  arms  and  money  and  not  giving  the 


728  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

information.  It  was  my  understanding  that  that  was  one  of  the  rea- 
sons that  Mr.  Lae  was  sent  to  China — to  unscramble  this  thing. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  ever  tell  j'oii  anything  about  OSS  operations 
in  the  Balkans  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  he  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  AVhat  information  did  he  relate  to  you  regarding 
that? 

Miss  Bentley.  He  had  a  number  of  pieces  of  information  in  regard 
to  Rumania.  Bulgaria,  and  other  Balkan  countries.  There  were  liberal 
groups  who  were  anxious  not  to  have  the  Russians  come  in  when 
Germany  was  defeated,  and  these  groups  were  carrying  on  secret 
negotiations  in  many  cases  via  Switzerland  with  the  OSS.  He  told 
me  about  those. 

He  told  me  about  the  OSS  group  that  was  stationed  in  Istanbul, 
Turkey,  as  a  jumping-oif  point  for  operations  in  the  Balkans. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  ever  tell  you  anything  about  Oak  Ridge, 
Tenn.? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes.  Toward  the  end  of  the  time  I  knew  him,  which 
I  would  say  would  be  November  19J:4,  he  told  me  that  he  had  word  that 
something  very  secret  was  going  on  at  that  location.  He  did  not  know 
what,  but  he  said  it  must  be  something  supersecret  because  it  was 
shrouded  in  such  mystery  and  so  heavily  guarded. 

The  Chairman.  What  was  that  date  again  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  would  say  it  was  near  the  end  of  the  time  I  knew 
him.  The  last  time  I  saw  him  was  the  end  of  December  1944.  This 
must  have  been  October  or  November,  I  would  say,  along  in  there. 

The  Chairman.  When  he  told  3'ou  that  about  Oak  Ridge,  where  was 
that  meeting? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  was  one  of  our  meetings  where  we  met  in  the 
drug  store  and  walked  around  the  neighborhood. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  want  to  question  Miss  Bentley  now?  I 
Avould  like  to  call  Mr.  Lee  back. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Mundt. 

]\Ir.  Mundt.  You  heard  the  testimony  of  Mr.  Lee  a  feAv  moments 
ago? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes,  I  did. 

Mr.  MtTNDT.  You  recall  his  statement  of  your  calling  at  his  home 
(iue  night  and  he  telling  you  that  because  of  your  Communist  views 
they  were  going  to  break  off  the  acquaintanceship.  Was  that  part 
of  his  statement  correct?  Can  you  corroborate  that  part  of  his  state- 
nient  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  am  sorry,  that  didn't  happen.  That  never 
happened. 

Mr.  Mundt.  That  never  happened? 

Miss  Bentley.  No  ;  it  never  happened. 

Mr.  Mundt.  You  don't  recall  any  stage  of  your  acquaintanceship 
with  Mr.  Lee  where  he  made  known  to  you  that  he  may  have  suspected 
you  were  a  Commmiist  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  He  knew  all  along  I  was  a  Communist.  There  was  a 
stage  when  he  suspected  I  Avas  a  Soviet  agent,  if  that  is  what  you 
mean, 

Mr.  Mundt.  Up  until  then,  though,  he  didn't  feel  that  being  a 
Communist  might  in  any  way  give  you  an  association  with  the  Soviet 
Government? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  729 

Miss  Bextley.  Up  until  about  the  spring  of  1944  I  couldn't  state 
definitely.    I  just  don't  know. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  From  the  spring  of  1944  on  he  knew  you  were  both  a 
Communist  and  a  Russian  agent  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  imagine  so.  because  that  was  apropos  of  that  pro- 
posed transfer  between  NKVD  and  the  OSS,  and  I  remember  he  was 
quite  frightened  because  he  said,  ''If  they  come  over  here,  they  will 
come  up  to  my  house,  knock  on  the  door,  shake  my  hand,  and  say 
'Comrade,  well  done.' '" 

I  remember  that  distinctly.  Tliat,  of  course,  gave  me  the  impres- 
sion tliat  he  did  believe  I  was,  and  he  got  very  nervous  during  that 
period.    It  was  impossible  to  see  him  sometimes. 

Finally  his  wife  arranged  a  meeting  for  the  thi'ee  of  us  toward  the 
end  of  that  summer.  I  believe,  1944,  and  he  asked  me  point  blank 
if  this  was  going  to  Russia  or  whether  it  was  going  to  the  Communist 
Party,  and  I  said  it  was  going  to  Earl  Browder. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  The  information? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  That  is  all. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  ISIcDowell. 

Mr.  McDowell.  AVas  the  name  of  Capt.  George  Lubetnitch  ever 
brought  into  the  conversation  ? 

Miss  Bextley.  Who? 

Mr.  McDowell.  George  Lubetnitch. 

]Miss  Bentley.  I  am  sorry,  I  didn't  hear  that. 

Mr.  McDowell.  That  is  all. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Hebert. 

Mr.  Hehert.  When  did  you  first  meet  Mr.  Lee  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  would  say  January  or  February  of  1943. 

]Mr.  Hebert.  1943,  January  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  January  or  February ;  yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  1943? 

]Miss  Bex'tley.  That  is  correct,  after  Miss  Price  had  come  up  to 
New  York  with  virus  pneumonia. 

Mr.  Hebert.  When  did  you  say  he  first  became  suspicious  that  you 
were  a  Soviet  agent? 

Miss  Bex^tley.  I  would  place  that  in  the  spring  of  1944.  I  mean, 
obviously  so.     I  don't  know  what  he  thought  before  that. 

Mr.  Hebert.  But  he  gave  no  indication  before  that  that  he  thought 
you  were  a  Soviet  agent,  until  about  1944? 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes :  that  is  correct. 

]\Ir.  Hebert.  Is  Mr.  Lee  a  Communist? 

Miss  Bentley.  To  the  best  of  my  knowledge ;  yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  does  that  knowledge  entail  ? 

Miss  Bex-^tley.  I  brought  him  Communist  Party  literature,  I  col- 
lected his  Communist  Party  dues.  I  was  told  he  was  a  member  in 
New  York  and  that  he  was  made  a  member  at  large  in  charge  of  Mary 
Price.  I  have  never  seen  his  party  card,  but  I  had  every  reason  to 
believe  he  was. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Where  did  you  collect  his  party  dues  from  him? 

Miss  Bentley.  Wherever  I  happened  to  meet  him — in  his  apart- 
ment or  on  the  street  sometimes,  or  at  his  house. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Weren't  these  party  dues  collected  periodically  over 
a  certain  period? 


730  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Miss  Bentley.  They  should  have  been,  but  in  lots  of  cases  they 
let  them  ])ile  up  a  bit  and  then  collected  them  for  that  period. 

]\Ii'.  Hebert.  AVho  checked  on  whether  it  was  the  right  amount  or 
not? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  am  afraid  to  tell  you  that  no  one  ever  checked 
on  these  things.  It  was  Mr.  Golos"  responsibility  to  turn  this  money 
in.  I  don't  believe  anyone  ever  checked  on  it.  He  simply  took  the 
money  down  to  headquarters  and  got  receipts  for  it,  but  I  don't  be- 
lieve anybody  ever  checked. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Mary  Price  was  the  first  one  to  tell  you  Mr.  Lee  was 
a  Communist  and  a  member  of  the  party  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Mary  Price  was  the  first  one ;  yes, 

Mr.  Hebert.  Mr.  Stripling,  has  Mary  Price  been  supenaed? 

Mr.  Stripling.  No;  she  has  not. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  suggest  that  Mary  Price  be  subpenaed. 

The  Chairman.  I  might  say  to  Mr.  Hebert  that  everyone  whose 
name  has  been  mentioned  will  be  subpenaed  if  they  have  not  already 
been  subpenaed. 

]\Ir.  Hebert.  Very  good. 

Now,  Miss  Bentley,  did  you  ever  meet  Mr.  Lee  in  Xew  York? 
'    Miss  Bentley.  Yes;  I  did  meet  Mr.  Lee  in  New  York,     I  think  I 
met  him  in  New  York  three  or  four  times  in  all. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  was  that  occasion?  What  year  was  that? 
When? 

Miss  Bentley.  Well,  the  last  time  I  met  him  in  New  York  was  to- 
ward the  end  of  December  1944,  or  possibly  the  first  few  davs  of  Janu- 
ary 1945. 

Mr.  Hf^BERT.  '\^nien  was  the  first  time  you  met  him  in  New  York? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  I  can't  tell  you  offhand. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Approximately? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  think  toward  the  end  of  1943,  but  I  am  not  entirely 
sure  of  that. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Did  you  meet  him  in  New  York  before  you  met  him  in 
Washington  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  met  him  in  Washington  first  at  his  apartment.  The 
onl}^  reason  for  meeting  him  in  New  York  was  that  we  had  the  policy 
of  meeting  all  Washington  people  in  New  York  if  they  came  up. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  led  up  to  your  meeting  him  in  New  York  on  sev- 
eral occasions? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  don't  quite  understand  your  question, 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  led  up  to  you  meeting  him  in  New  York  on 
several  occasions? 

Miss  Bentley.  In  common  with  the  otliQr  people,  when  Mr.  Lee 
came  to  New  York  on  business  or  on  vacation  or  passing  through  New 
York,  we  made  it  the  policy  to  take  all  our  people  out  and  entertain 
them,  take  them  to  dinner,  and  so  on. 

Mr.  Hebert.  How  did  you  know  he  was  in  New  York  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  Because  he  would  let  me  know  ahead  of  time  that 
he  was  coming  up  to  New  York  or  he  would  send  word  through  JNIary 
Price,  who  moved  up  to  New  York  in  November  of  1943. 

Mr.  Hebert.  But  he  never  telephoned  you  in  New  York? 

Miss  Bentley.  No  ;  he  did  not.  He  did  not  know  my  number  that 
I  know  of. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  731 

Mr.  Hkhert.  Tlierefore,  any  time  j'Oii  mot  liim  in  Ne^v  York  it  was 
tlirough  another  party? 

^liss  Bentley.  It  was  either  through  another  party  or  prearranged 
in  Washington. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  the  place  you  would  meet  him  would  be  desig- 
nated ? 

Miss  Bfntlet.  It  varied  according  to  where  he  was  and  which  was 
most  convenient.  I  met  him  once  at  Longchamps  on  Fifth  Avenue 
and  Twelfth  Street,  and  once  at  Longchamps  on  Fifty-seventh  Street. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Is  Longchamps  a  very  secretive  place  in  New  York? 

Miss  Bentley.  The  policy  was  not  to  meet  at  a  secret  place.  The 
Ijolic}'  is  to  pick  as  respectable  a  place  as  possible. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  said  a  few  minutes  ago  he  suggested  meeting  at 
a  place  where  he  wouldn't  be  seen  with  you. 
•    Miss  Bentley.  That  isn't  quite  what  I  was  trying  to  say. 

]Mr.  Hebert.  What  were  you  trying  to  say  ? 

]Miss  Bentley.  I  was  trj'ing  to  say  that  in  general  espionage  agents 
tried  to  be  seen  in  respectable  places  provided  those  places  are  not  a 
jjlace  where  you  would  meet  someone  you  knew. 

Mr.  Hebert.  At  Longchamps  you  wouldn't  meet  anybody  you 
knew? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  didn't  know  anyone  in  the  neighborhood  and  I  pre- 
sume Mr.  Lee  didn't  either. 

Mr.  Hebert.  It  is  one  of  the  largest  restaurants  in  NeAV  York, 
isn't  it  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  It  certainh^  is,  but  I  knew  of  no  one  who  lived  in  that 
neighborhood  or  who  frequented  it. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Let  us  get  back  to  the  first  time  you  met  Mr.  Lee.  You 
knocked  on  the  door  and  said,  "This  is  Helen'"  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  knocked  on  the  door,  Mr.  Lee  opened  it,  and  I 
said,  ''Good  evening,  Duncan,  this  is  Helen.  I  think  Mary  Price  has 
told  you  about  me."    He  said,  "Yes,''  and  asked  me  to  come  in. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  was  in  1943  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  was  either  in  January  or  February  of  1943 ; 
yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  met  under  those  circumstances  and  in  your  opin- 
ion Mr.  Lee  didn't  think  you  were  a  Soviet  agent  when  you  were  using 
a  code  name  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  At  that  time  I  don't  believe  he  did  because  it  was 
common  practice  among  Communists  to  know  people  by  pseudonyms 
and  first  names. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  would  be  j'our  reason  for  meeting  him  if  you 
weren't  an  agent? 

Miss  Bentley.  In  common  with  lots  of  other  Communists  down 
here.  I  think  they  actually  believed  the  material  was  going  to  the 
Conmumist  Party.  I  can't  figure  their  mental  processes  any  better 
than  that. 

]Mr.  Hebert.  Let's  differentiate  now  between  the  Communist  Party 
and  the  Russian  agent.    Is  there  any  difference  in  your  mind? 

Miss  Bentley.  There  is  no  difference  in  my  mind  because  I  know 
what  the  Communist  Party  stands  for,  but  a  good  many  people  who 
did  join  the  Communist  Party  did  make  that  distinction."^ 

Mr.  Hebert.  Why  would  they  be  passing  secret  information  to  the 
Connnunist  Party  ? 


732  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Miss  Bentley.  Because  they  believed  it  would  be  useful  for  the 
Communist  Party  in  Communist  strategy. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  would  that  strategy  ultimately  be? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  strategy  ultimately  would  be  the  overthrow 
of  this  Government,  but  I  don't  think  they  believed  that. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  can't  quite  follow  you,  Miss  Bentley. 

Miss  Bentley.  I  think  it  is  quite  difficult,  Mr.  Hebert,  for  anyone 
to  follow  the  processes  of  the  Communist  mind  unless  you  have  at  one 
time  been  one  and  been  under  the  influence. 

Mr.  Hebert.  By  that  statement  probably  none  of  us  would  ever 
r.nderstand  the  machinations  of  the  Communist  Party  unless  we  had 
been  a  member. 

Miss  Bentley.  I  rather  doubt  it  because  it  is  very  hard  to  explain. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Didn't  it  seem  very  strange  to  you  that  Mr.  Lee  didn't 
think  you  were  a  Communist  agent,  a  Russian  agent,  when  you  intro- 
(]uced  yourself  to  him  as  Helen,  a  code  name,  called  him  by  the  code 
name  of  Duncan,  and  then  discussed  the  information  that  would  be 
given  to  you?  Mr.  Lee  impresses  me  at  this  time,  the  first  time  I  have 
seen  him,  as  an  intelligent  man,  his  background  is  certainly  intellectual. 

What  quirk  of  his  intellect  would  indicate  at  that  time  that  you 
were  just  Helen,  a  nice  "gal"  to  laiow  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  don't  know  how  I  could  have  impressed  him  as 
]i0t  being  a  Communist.  I  still  don't  think  at  the  beginning  he  knew 
I  was  a  Soviet  agent. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Then  he  was  passing  this  information  on  to  you  just 
for  the  purposes  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  was  my  understanding  at  first.  Later  on  I 
believe  he  did  have  a  question  in  his  mind,  as  I  have  explained. 

Mr.  He;bert.  That  was  in  1944,  you  say  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  believe  it  was  the  spring  of  1944;  yes. 
.    Mr.  Hebert.  For  a  year  these  contacts  continued  and  still  he  never 
tliought  or  he  never  indicated  to  you  that  he  thought  you  were  a  Com- 
]nunist  agent  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  He  did  indicate  he  thought  I  was  a  Communist. 
He  did  not  indicate  he  thought  I  was  a  Soviet  agent. 

Mr.  Hebert.  In  1944? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Now,  Miss  Bentley,  you  heard  Mr.  Lee  describe  a 
scene  in  his  home,  a  very  emotional  scene.     Did  that  ever  take  place? 

Miss  Bentley.  That  scene  never  took  place. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  never  did  take  place;  nothing  like  that  ever 
happened? 

Miss  Bentley.  No. 

Mr.  Hebert.  So,  we  get  down  to  it,  either  you  or  Mr.  Lee  is  lying 
today. 

Miss  Bentley.  I  guess  that  is  the  only  conclusion  you  can  draw. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Both  of  you  cannot  be  telling  the  truth. 

Miss  Bentley.  It  would  seem  so. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  is  all. 

The  Ckairman.  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  would  like  to  ask  the  witness  regarding  these  meet- 
ings in  the  drug  store. 

Miss  Bentley.  Yes. 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  733 

Mr.  Stkipi>ix(;.  Did  you  meet,  as  Mr.  Lee  said,  you  would  go  in  and 
Lave  a  Coca-Cola  together? 

Miss  Bextley.  No  ;  on  the  contrary,  I  would  usually  get  there  first 
i^nd  be  drinking  a  Coca-Cola  when  Mr.  Lee  came  in  to  buy  cigarettes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  he  recognize  you  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  No;  he  would  look  at  me  and  walk  out,  and  I  would 
follow  him  for  about  three  or  four  blocks  until  he  slowed  down  and 
1  cauglit  up  witli  him. 

Mr.  Stripling.  But  you  never  sat  with  him  in  the  drug  store  and 
had  a  Coca-Cola  ? 

Miss  Bentley.  I  do  not  recall  having  done  so.  I  may  have  in  the 
earlier  days  Avhen  he  was  not  quite  so  frightened,  but  I  do  not  recall 
doing  so. 

]\Ir.  Stripling.  Mr.  Lee  became  so  frightened — — 

Miss  Bentliy.  Yes ;  definitely,  after  that  incident  that  I  spoke  of 
lie  became  very  frightened. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  have  no  further  questions  at  this  time. 

The  Chairman.  Does  any  member  have  any  further  questions  ? 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Not  at  this  time. 

The  Chairman.  Not  at  this  time. 

iSIr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Lee. 

TESTIMONY  Or  DUNCAN  CHAPLIN  LEE— Resumed 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Lee,  j^ou  have  heard  the  testimony  of  Miss 
Bentley. 

Mr.  Lee.  I  certainlj^  have,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  3'ou  deny  or  affirm  it? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  deny  it;  and  in  every  respect  in  which  it  is  contrary  to 
the  testipnony  I  have  previously  given. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Mundt. 

Mr.  Mundt.  ]Mr.  Lee.  it  would  seem  to  me  that  if  you  were  in  tlie 
OSS  and  being  approached  by  a  woman  with  Communist  views 
who  had  displayed  an  unusual  intensity,  you  said,  in  trying  to  pursue 
your  W'ife  and  you,  and  cultivate  your  acquaintance  and  maintain 
your  friendship,  tliat  she  had  done  that  over  a  period  of  montiis, 
and  perhaps  years,  you  had  b?en  alarmed  and  disturbed  by  her  pro- 
nounced Communist  tendencies,  so  much  so  that  you  created — you 
said  that  she  created  a  very  emotional  scene  in  your  home,  accord- 
ing to  your  testimony,  And  you  were  an  officer  of  the  OSS,  certainly 
if  that  part  of  your  testimony  is  correct,  you  reported  those  facts 
at  that  time  to  some  one  of  your  superior  officers.  To  whom  did  you. 
re])ort  that  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Excuse  me,  sir.  I  tried  to  make  it  clear  in  my  testi- 
mony, Mr.  ]Mundt,  that  the  major  element  which  led  my  wife  and 
me  to  want  to  break  our  relationship  with  Miss  Bentley  was  a  purelv 
personal  one.  She  was  becoming  a  personal  nuisance  to  us.  Now.  I 
thought  her  views  were  too  advanced,  as  w^e  got  to  know^  her  better.  l)Ut 
that  Avas  a  very  minor  element. 

Mr.  jNIundt.  What  do  you  mean  by  advanced  views  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Perhaps,  that  was  not  the  best  word.  I  mean  too  extreme, 
too  left  wing,  too  communistic.  I  had  no  knowledge  that  she  was 
in  fact  a  Communist,  and  she  had  done  nothing  to  lead  me  to  suppose 


734  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

that  she  was  a  Russian  or  a  Communist  agent.  As  far  as  I  know,  and 
to  the  best  of  my  recollection,  she  never  sought  any  information 
from  me. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  But  you  do  recall  that  she  had  made  herself  more  or 
less  a  personal  nuisance  by  her  persistency  in  trying  to  cultivate  and 
then  retain  the  friendly  association  with  your  wife  and  you. 

Mr.  Lre.  Yes,  sir ;  but  we  thought  that  was 

Mr.  MuNDT.  And  you  do  recall  that  you  became  disturbed  about 
the  fact  because  her  views  were  so  proconnnunistic. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  IMuxDT.  So,  as  a  consequence  of  a  lady  whose  views  were  pro- 
comnuniistic,  pressing  herself  upon  you  so  frequently  and  so  forcibly, 
you  sought  t-o  break  the  relationship. 

Mr.  Lee.  Mr.  Mundt,  I  tried  to  explain,  we  gave  Miss  Bentley  the 
reason  that  her  views  were  so  left  wing  as  a  reason  tliat  we  wanted 
to  break  off  tlie  relationship. 

Mr.  Mundt.  But  you  testified  before  us  that  you  had  observed  her 
views  to  have  become  procommunistic. 

Mr.  Lee.  But  that  was  a  very  minor  element  and  she  had  done 
nothing  to  lead  us  to  suppose  so. 

jSIr.  Mundt.  I  am  not  saying  that  she  had  done  anything.  But  you 
testified  a  few  moments  ago  that  you  and  your  wife  had  observed  her 
views  becoming  left  wing,  as  far  as  you  were  able  to  observe. 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Mundt.  And  finally  they  became  so  definitely  procommunistic 
that  you  felt  tliat  you  did  not  want  a  lady  of  that  type  pressing  herself 
on  your  person. 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  IMuNDT.  So,  3'ou  decided  to  break  the  relationship. 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is"^right. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Certainly,  then  as  an  officer  of  the  OSS  whose  job,  in 
part,  was  counterespionage,  you  must  have  reported  that  strauge 
sequence  of  events  to  some  one  of  your  superior  officers.  You  did  not 
keep  that  secret  to  yourself.  Surely,  you  must  have  told  someone 
and  I  am  trying  to  find  out  to  whom,  as  a  subordinate  officer,  you  re- 
ported this  strange  sequence  of  events  which  finally  became  apparent  to 
you  and  your  wife. 

Mr.  Lee.  JNIr.  jNlundt,  I  must  respectfully  disagree  that  there  was 
anything  that  happened  in  our  relationship  with  Miss  Bentley  that 
led  me  to  believe  that  I  should  report  it  to  anyone.  We  considered 
this  to  be  entirely,  if  not  primarily,  a  personal  problem. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Mr.  Lee,  a  man  of  your  eclucation  and  fine  intellect 
must  surely  have  felt  that  there  was  something  curious  about  the 
fact  that  a  pro-Communist  woman  should  pursue  you  as  an  officer  of 
the  OSS  to  press  upon  you  her  presence  so  frequently,  to  seek  to  meet 
you  at  drug  stores,  to  try  to  find  occasions  to  contact  you,  whether 
she  had  asked  you  for  information  or  not.  Surely,  you  must  have 
thought  there  was  something  peculiar  about  this  communistically 
inclined  woman  pressing  herself  upon  yon. 

Mr.  Lee.  She  did  not  pursue  me,  sir,  as  an  officer  of  the  OSS,  as  far 
as  I  knew  then. 

Mr.  Mundt.  You  were  an  officer  of  the  OSS  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  was.     That  is  perfectly  true,  sir. 

Mr.  Mundt.  How  could  she  pursue  you  in  any  other  capacity? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  735 

Mr.  T.EK.  Slie  pursued  my  wife  and  me  as  personal  friends;  that  is, 
nt  least,  what  we  understood. 

Mr.  jMuxdt.  That  is  what  she  gave  you  to  understand? 

Mr.  Lee.  Tliat  is  what  she  gave  us  to  understand. 

Mr.  jNIundt.  But  surely  a  man  who  had  the  capacity  in  OSS  to  rise 
up  to  the  rank  of  lieutenant  colonel  had  the  capacity  to  figure  out 
that  something  was  unusual;  that  this  woman  over  a  period  of  time 
liad  pursued  you,  either  as  an  individual  or  as  an  oflicer  in  the  OSS; 
t  ither  way,  you  were  in  the  OSS.  and  gradually  it  dawned  upon  you 
tliat  this  woman  was  a  Comnuuiist,  so,  "^ly  wife  and  I  should  have 
no  more  to  do  with  her."  But  then  you  did  not  tell  it  to  j^our  superioi" 
officer. 

Mr.  Lee.  No.  sir. 

A[r.  Mi'XDT.  You  did  not  report  it  to  anyone. 

Mr.  Lee.  Excuse  me ;  that  is  not  the  reason  we  decided  not  to  have 
anything  more  to  do  with  her.  The  reason  we  decided  was  because 
slie  was  a  personal  nuisance:  the  reason  we  gaA^e  her  was  that  because 
we  thouglit  it  would  be  kinder  to  her  and  hurt  her  less.  It  was  an 
im])ersonal  reason. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  mean  if  she  v>-as  a  little  less  persistent,  even  though 
slie  was  a  Communist,  you  would  be  perfectly  willing  to  pursue  the 
association? 

Mr.  Lee.  Unless  I  kn.ew  in  fact  that  she  was  a  Communist.  All  I 
knew,  her  views  were  too  left  wing,  and  I  say  that  I  never  drew  the 
conclusion. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  All  I  can  say  is  that  whatever  else  comes  from  this 
testimony,  that  I  am  bitterly  disappointed  to  find  out  that  that  is  the 
way  the  OSS  operated  under  Mr.  Donovan. 

The  Chairmax.  Mr.  Lee,  I  am  going  to  review  the  record,  or  at  least 
I  am  going  to  have  you  review  the  record. 

After  vou  jyraduated  from  Yale,  what  did  vou  do? 

Mr.  Lee.  After  I  took  my  bachelor  of  arts  degi'ee  at  Yale? 

The  CiiAiRMAX.  Yes. 

Mr.  Lee.  I  went  to  Oxford  for  3  years,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  And  then  you  graduated  from  Oxford  in  what 
vear? 

Mr.  Lee.  In  1938. 

The  Chairman.  What  did  you  do  after  that  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  took  1  vear  of  graduate  work  at  the  Yale  Law  School. 

The  Chairman.  1939.     What  did  you  do  after  that  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  then  went  to  work  in  General  Donovan's  law  firm  in 
New  York. 

The  Chairman.  And  you  were  with  that  law  firm  for  how  long  a 
period  of  time  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Until  I  came  to  Washington  in  June  of  1942 — the  end  of 
June  1942. 

The  Chairman.  So,  in  that  period  of  3  years,  when  you  were  in 
New  York,  what  organizations  did  you  join? 

]Mr.  Lee.  The  only  organizations  that  I  can  be  sure  that  I  joined  at 
that  time — I  was  an  associate,  I  think  they  call  it,  of  the  New  York 
City  Bar  Association.  I  served  as  counsel  to  two  relief  organizations, 
and  I  believe  that  is  all,  sir.  I  was  a  member  of  the  American  Society 
of  Rhodes  Scholars. 

The  Chairman.  What  are  those  relief  organizations? 


736  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Lee.  One  was  the  Russian  War  Relief  and  the  other  was  known 
as  the  China  Aid  Council,  and  the  American  Committee  for  Chinese 
War  Orphans. 

The  Chairman.  How  long  were  you  counsel  for  the  Russian  War 
Relief? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  do  not  recall  exactl}^,  sir.     I  should  think  about  a  year. 

The  Chairman.  Why  did  you  not  continue  as  counsel  for  the  Rus- 
sian War  Relief  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Because  I  was  coming  to  Washington  to  work  for  the 
Government. 

The  Chairman.  How  did  you  get  the  position  as  counsel  for  the 
Russian  War  Relief? 

Mr.  Lee.  My  services  were  recjuested  by  Mr.  Carter,  the  president 
of  the  organization,  who  asked  General  Donovan  to  release  me  part- 
time  to  do  that  w^oik.    It  was  not  a  job,  I  might  say,  that  I  sought. 

The  Chairman.  Had  you  known  Mr.  Carter  prior  to  that  time  that 
he  approached  you  to  take  the  position? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir;  I  met  him  before. 

The  Chairman.  Where  did  you  meet  Mr.  Carter  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  do  not  recall  precisely.  I  knew  his  Avife  in  this  Chinese 
relief  organization;  she  was  the  head  of  that,  and  I  worked  with  her. 

The  Chairman.  How  long  had  3'ou  known  jNIr.  Cailer? 

Mr.  Lee.  Since  sometime  in  1940,  Mr.  Chairman.  I  would  guess  it 
Avas  that  time — it  might  be  1939. 

I'he  Chairman.  Did  you  ever  attend  any  meetings  with  Mr.  Carter? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  have  attended  various  board  meetings  of  the  Russian 
War  Relief  with  him. 

The  Chairman.  I  mean,  prior  to  the  time  that  you  went  as  counsel 
to  the  Russian  "War  Relief.  Did  vou  attend  any  meetings  with  Mr. 
Carter? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  do  not  recall  any,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Well,  it  is  not  clear  to  me  just  how  Mr.  Carter 
liappened  to  select  you  as  the  person  to  be  the  counsel  for  the  Russimi 
War  Relief. 

Mr.  Lee.  I  had  met  Mr.  Carter  through  his  wife,  and  I  had  for 
some  months  prior  to  the  organization  of  the  Russian  War  Relief 
worked  for  the  Chinese  relief  organization  and  had  put  through  a 
consolidation  of  two  separate  relief  organizations  that  had  previously 
existed  and  had  done  other  legal  jobs  for  them,  and  I  imagine  tliat 
Mrs.  Carter  suggested  that  I  was  someone  who  could  help  him  if  he 
Avanted  help. 

The  Chairman.  Did  you  belong  to  any  other  organizations  in  New 
York,  any  civic  organizations  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Or  patriotic  organizations? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir;  not  to  my  recollection. 

The  Chairman.  When  you  came  to  Washington,  did  you  join  any 
or<i:anization  here  in  Washington? 

Mr.  Lee.  During  the  war;  no,  sir.  Since  the  war,  I  haA^e  joined,  I 
think,  the  Institute  of  Pacific  Relations,  in  1946. 

The  Chairman.  What  Avas  the  name  of  that? 

Mr.  Lee.  Institute  of  I'acific  Relations.  At  that  time,  I  Avas  working 
on  Cldnese  matters,  and  I  Avanted  to  take  the  literature  Avhich  they 
l)ut  out  currently  on  the  Far  East. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  737 

The  ('iiAiKMAX.  Have  you  joined  any  other  orounizations  in 
Washington  besides  that? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir;  not  to  ni}'  recollection. 

The  CiiAiR3iAN.  Yon  mentioned  that  Miss  Bentley  was  a  pergonal 
luiisance. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  In  what  way  was  she  a  personal  nuisance? 

Mr.  Lee.  It  is  hard  to  describe  this  too  precisely,  sir. 

What  I  am  tryino-  to  say  is  that  Miss  Bentley,  as  we  got  to  know  he: 
over  a  period  of  months.' seemed  to  us  to  rely  too  much  emotionally 
u])on  us,  as  though  we  were  an  emotional  crutch  for  her. 

The  CiTATinrAx.  That  is  not  clear  to  me.  I  would  just  like  to  havt^ 
you  explain  tlnit.     Assuming  that  I  am  Miss  B?ntley,  how  would 

i — 

(Laughter.) 

]Mr.  Lee.  Well,  sir.  I  see  the  difiiculty,  Mr.  Chairman.  For  one 
tiling.  Miss  Bentley  protested  her  affection  for  us  too  nnich;  she  called 
us  up,  we  felt,  more  often  than  the  acquaintance  justified. 

The  Chairmax.  Well,  would  anybody  be  a  personal  nuisance  jusb 
because  they  called  you  up  more  times  than  were  justified? 

Mr.  Lee.'  I  might  mention  one  other  thing  in  that  connection,  sir. 
As  I  say,  when  we  first  met  Miss  Bentley  we  felt  that  she  was  an 
unusually  interesting  and  well-informed  person.  As  we  got  to  know 
lier  better,  we  revised  our  opinion  in  that  respect  as  well.  AVe  found 
her  somewhat  dull. 

The  Chairman.  So,  when  you  found  her  dull,  and  then  you  thought 
it  essential  to  meet  her  in  a  drug  store  and  tell  her  that  she  was  too 
chill  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  was  careful  not  to  tell  her  that,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  Well,  was  it  necessary  to  go  out  of  the  house  and 
go  to  a  drug  store  to  sever  the  friendship? 

Mr.  Lee."  Mr.  Chairman,  I  suppose  people  have  different  ways  of 
getting  rid  of  an  emotional  friend.  It  is  a  difficult  problem,  I  think, 
in  each  case.  I  am  not  sure  that  we  handled  it  in  the  best  possible 
way.  But  we  did  vdiat  we  considered  at  that  time  to  be  the  kindest 
and  the  easiest  way.  We  felt  that  we  had  here  an  extremely  tense, 
emotional  situation  that  might  result  in  a  scene  anyway,  and  we 
wanted 

The  Chairman.  Well,  aside  from  her  calling  you  a  number  of  times, 
in  what  other  ways  was  she  a  nuisance  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  She  protested  her  fondness  for  us  too  much. 

The  Chairman.  She  protested  fondness  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  She  kept  saying  how  fond  she  was  of  us  when  she  was 
with  us,  and  she  said  it  too  often  and  too  much.  It  seemed  to  us 
unnatural  and  unhealthy. 

The  Chairman.  I  do'not  quite  understand  that,  but  maybe  you  are 
right.     [Laughter.] 

Then,  when  you  went  to  the  drug  store,  just  relate  the  conversation 
that  you  had  with  Miss  Bentley  at  the  drug  store? 

Mr.  Lee.  Well,  I  cannot  recall  the  precise  conversation,  Mr.  Chair- 
man. I  do  know  that  the  two  meetings  that  I  recall  having  with  Miss 
Bentley  in  a  drug  store  were  the  last  two  times  that  1  ever  saw  her,  and 

80408—48 16 


738  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

1  went  to  meet  her  for  the  purpose  of  persuading  her  that  we  should 
end  this  acquaintance,  and  as  near  as  I  can  recall.  Miss  Bentley  was 
concerned  to  see  to  it,  as  far  as  possible,  that  she  should  continue  it, 
and  kept  asking  whether  we  had  not  changed  our  mind,  and  that  sort 
of  thing. 

The  Chairmax.  Would  it  not  have  been  more  natural  if  your  wife 
had  gone  to  the  drug  store  and  met  Miss  Bentley  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  As  I  say,  sir,  my  wife  and  I  both  met  Miss  Bentley  on  one 
occasion  at  Martin's  Restaurant  after  the  incidents  that  I  have  pre- 
viously described.  The  other  two  times  my  wife  just  did  not  want  to 
go  or  else  we  did  not  have  a  sitter.     I  do  not  recall  precisely  why. 

The  Chairman.  When  you  went  to  the  drug  store  the  first  time, 
what  did  you  discuss  with  Miss  Bentley?  You  said  there  were  two 
meetings  in  tlie  drug  store. 

Mr.  Lee.  As  far  as  I  recall,  Mr.  Chairman,  we  discussed  the  same 
thing  on  both  occasions. 

The  Chairman.  And  the  approximate  date  ©f  the  second  meeting 
was  when? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  would  say  that  both  meetings  occurred  possibly  one  in 
November  and  the  other  in  December  of  1944. 

The  Chairman.  Now,  you  said  her  views  were  too  extreme. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Please  explain  in  detail  to  the  committee  just  what 
you  mean  b}'  tlie  statement  that  her  "views  were  too  extreme." 

Mr.  Lee.  I  mean  just  this,  sir,  that  as  we  got  to  know  Miss  Bentley 
better,  she  seemed  to  prefer  ai-guments  with  us  on  such  issues  as  the 
rights  and  wrongs  of  the  Soviet  cause  and  the  Russian-German  pact. 
As  to  whether  the  second  front  was  delayed  in  coming,  as  to  whether 
the  Soviet  regime  in  Russia  was  a  good  thing  for  the  Russians  or  a 
bad  tiling  for  the  Russians,  were  some  of  the  things  she  discussed, 
and  since  we  did  not  see  eye  to  eye  on  those  points,  the  discussions 
liecame,  on  the  whole,  less  enjoyable. 

The  Chairman.  Have  you  ever  been  in  one  of  the  Longchamps 
Restaurants  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Which  one? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  have  been  in  various  Longchamps  Restaurants. 

The  Chairman.  Have  you  been  in  the  one  down  at  Twelfth  Street? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir;  I  recall  meeting  Miss  Bentley  on  one  occasion. 

The  Chairman.  You  said  that  before,  I  take  it  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Sir? 

The  Chairman.  I  say,  you  admitted  that  before. 

Mr.  Lee.  I  do  not  believe  I  was  asked  that  before. 

The  Chairman.  When  you  met  Miss  Bentley  down  in  the  Long- 
champs Restaurant  before,  what  was  the  purpose  of  that  meeting? 

Mr.  Lee.  I,  at  that  time,  Mr.  Chairman,  believe  that  our  relations 
with  Miss  Bentley  were  good,  and  we  still  were  fond  of  her.  She 
liad  said  to  call  her  up  whenever  I  was  in  New  York,  and  I  think 
I  did  on  two  occasions.  One  was  the  dinner  which  I  described, 
and  one  was  this  meeting,  and  all  I  can  recall  about  it  was  that  we 
had  a  drink. 

The  Chairman."  What  time  of  the  day  was  that? 

Mr.  Lee.  About  the  cocktail  hour,  5  o'clock  or  6 — somewhere  around 
there. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  739 

The  Chairman.  How  long  did  you  stay  at  the  Longchainps  Res- 
taurant^ 

Mr.  Lee.  I  cannot  recall  exactly,  sir.  I  think  enough  time  to  have, 
perhaps,  two  Martinis. 

The  Chairman.  Just  you  two  alone? 
■     Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir ;  as  near  as  I  can  recall,  I  am  quite  sure  of  that. 

The  Chairman.  You  had  Miss  Bentley's  telephone  number  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  What  is  her  number — what  was  her  number? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  do  not  remember  now,  sir.  I  no  longer  have  it.  I 
think  the  exchange  was  Watkins. 

The  Chairman.  Did  you  have  her  telephone  number  in  both  New 
York  and  AVashington? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  did  not  know  she  had  a  Washington  number,  Mr.  Chair- 
man. 

The  Chairman.  Did  you  know  where  she  stayed  in  Washington 
when  she  came  to  Washington  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No;  I  think  I  was  under  the  impression  that  she  fre- 
quently took  night  trains  back  to  New  York. 

The  Chairman.  Then,  how  did  you  get  in  touch  with  Miss  Bentley 
when  you  wanted  to  meet  her  in  the  drug  store  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  She  called  us,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  She  called  you  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir.  I  would  say  that  except  for  two  occasions  when 
1  called  Miss  Bentley  in  New  York,  at  a  time  when  there  was  a  genuine 
friendship  there,  neither  my  wife  nor  I  ever  took  the  initiative  of  seeing 
]Miss  Bentley. 

The  Chairman.  Well,  now,  you  admit  that  you  met  her  twice  in 
a  drug  store  in  Washington ;  you  admit  that  you  met  her  in  a  Long- 
champs  Restaurant  down  at  Twelfth  Street,  New  York  City. 

JNIr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  What  other  times  did  you  meet  Miss  Bentley,  and 
where? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  think  we  have  covered  in  this  testimony  all  the  other 
times  that  I  have  ever  met  Miss  Bentley. 

The  Chairman.  Well,  you  just  tell  me. 

Mr.  Lee.  Well,  that  would  be,  sir,  the  meetings  that  you  describe, 
the  ones  we  had  dinner  together  at  Martin's  once,  the  three  of  us 

The  Chairman.  Martin's?     Where  is  that? 

Mr.  Lee.  INIartin's  Restaurant  in  Georgetown.  That  was  in  George- 
town, Mr.  Chairman,  and  the  other  meetings,  as  far  as  I  can  recall, 
were  in  our  house  or  in  our  apartment. 

The  Chairman.  There  were  no  other  meetings  in  New  York  City  ? 

INIr.  Lee.  Only  the  ones  that  I  described. 

The  Chairman.  That  is  the  one  at  Longchamps  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is  right. 

The  Chairman.  What  was  the  other  one  again  ? 

IMr.  Lee.  That  was  in  a  restaurant  on  the  west  side. 

The  Chairman.  What  is  the  name  of  that  restaurant  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  am  not  sure  I  recall  now,  sir.  All  I  can  say  is  that  it 
v.as  very  far  to  the  west,  nearly  at  the  Hudson. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  know  the  name  of  that  restaurant? 

Mr.  Strh'ling.  Was  that  the  one  at  which  Golos  was  present? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 


740  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  Wlien  was  tliis  ? 

Mr.  Lee,  My  recollection  is  that  it  would  be  some  months  after  first 
meeting  Miss  Bentley.  I  imagine  that  would  be  the  early  spring  of 
1944. 

Mr.  Striplixg.  "Well,  he  died  in  Xovember  1943. 

Mr.  Lee.  Well,  then,  it  must  have  been  earlier. 

The  Chairman.  All  right. 

Now,  when  you  met  Mr.  Golos.  what  was  the  purpose  of  that  meet- 
ing with  Mr.  Golos  and  INIiss  Bentley  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  There  Avas  no  purpose  as  far  as  I  was  concerned.  He  was 
someone  along  with  her,  and  I  had  not  expected  to  see  him. 

The  Chairman.  So,  if  he  died  when  he  did,  Mr.  Stripling — when 
did  he  die? 

JSIr.  Stripling.  November  1913. 

The  Chairman.  November  1943,  it  must  have  been  earlier  than  that. 

Mr.  Lee.  Mr.  Chairman,  may  I  say  one  thing?  We  are  talking 
about  events  that  occurred  5  years  ago,  and  I  do  not  pretend  to  be 
precise. 

The  Chairman.  I  realize  that.  Who  arranged  for  that  meeting 
between  Mr.  Golos,  Miss  Bentley,  and  yourself? 

Mr.  Lee.  Which  one,  sir,  the  meeting  in  New  York  ? 

The  Chairman.  The  meeting  which  you  had  in  New  York. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir.  I  called  Miss  Bentley  when  I  got  to  Nev\'  York 
on  this  occasion,  and  I  forget  whether  I  suggested  that  we  have  din- 
ner or  whether  she  did.  I  think  she  did.  And  when  I  got  to  the 
restaurant,  Mr.  Golos  was  there  present.     He  was  there  with  her. 

The  Chairman.  Had  you  ever  heard  of  Mr.  Golos  before  that 
time? 

Mr.  Lee.  My  recollection  is  that  this  was  the  second  time  I  saw  him ; 
I  had  met  him  in  Washington  previously. 

The  Chairman.  Where  did  you  meet  Mr.  Golos  in  Washington 
previously  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  At  this  823  Kestaurant. 

The  Chairman.  Did  you  know  that  at  that  time  or  did  you  know 
at  the  second  meeting  that  Mr.  Golos  was  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mv.  Lee.  I  at  no  time — at  no  time  did  I  know  that  until  I  was  so 
informed  several  years  later. 

The  Chairman.  At  these  two  meetings  at  which  JNIr.  Golos  and  Miss 
Bentley  were  present,  what  was  the  purpose  of  the  meeting,  and  what 
did  you  discuss,  generally  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Well,  sir,  I  cannot  recall  what  the  precise  topics  of  discus- 
sion were ;  it  was  entirely  a  social  meeting. 

The  Chairman.  I  see. 

Mr.  Lee.  And  we  talked  about  whatever  was  being  talked  about  at 
the  time. 

The  Chairman.  Then,  when  you  later  discovered  that  Mr.  Golos 
was  a  Comnumist.  did  you  know  Miss  Bentley  at  that  time,  or  were 
you  having  contacts  with  Miss  Bentley  at  that  time? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir.  I  had  learned  Mr.  Golos  was  a  Communist"  and 
IMiss  Bentley  was  at  the  time  I  was  asked  to  testify  in  New  York  a 
year  ago. 

The  Chahjman.  Those  are  all  the  questions  I  have.     Mr.  Hebert. 
Mr.  Heisert.  INIr.  Lcc 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  741 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

^Ir.  Hebert.  Tell  us  again  when  was  the  first  time  that  you  met 
JNIiss  Bentley,  where,  and  on  what  occasion? 

Mr.  Lee.  My  recollection  is  that  it  Avas  after  I  got  back  from  the 
Par  East  in  19-'U,  which  would  put — excuse  me,  in  19i3,  which  would 
l)ut  it  in  October. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Of  1943? 
Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert,  Where  did  you  meet  her  ? 

]Mr.  Lee.  At  the  apartment  of  Mary  Price. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Where  is  Mary  Price's  apartment? 

Mr.  Lee.  It  is  at,  I  believe — between  Twentieth  and  Twenty-first, 
on  Ej'e. 

Mr.  Hebert.  In  Washinoton  ? 

]Mr.  Lee.  Yes.  sir.     The  location  was  given  a  short  time  ago. 

]Mr.  Hebert.  Didn't  Miss  Price  live  alone  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  was  the  occasion  of  your  meeting  with  Miss 
Bentley  ? 

Mv.  Lee.  We  were  just  asked  to  drop  in  for  drinks,  as  I  recall. 

^Nlr.  Hebert.  ]Miss  Price  asked  vou  and  your  wife  to  drop  in  for 
drinks? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes.  sir.     I  believe  there  were  several  other  people  present. 

]\Ir.  Hebert.  Name  some  of  the  people  present. 

Mr.  Lee.  I  do  not  recall  who  they  were,  sir. 

]Mr.  Hebert.  You  realize  that  is  important? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir ;  but  it  is  also  5  years  ago. 

Mr.  Hebert.  But  you  do  realize  it  is  important  for  the  sake  of 
veracity  right  now. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir,  if  I  knew  I  was  going  to  be  questioned  about  it 
5  jears  later,  I  would  probablj^  have  made  a  memorandum,  but  there 
was  no  reason  to  think  so. 

]\f r.  Hebert.  You  were  a  member  of  the  OSS,  were  you  not  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  the  OSS  is  quite  steeped  in  caution  and  suspicion, 
is  it  not?     I  would  say  oversteeped  in  caution  and  suspicion. 

Mr.  Lee.  OSS  tried  always  to  be  cautious,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Didn't  you  try  to  be  cautious? 

]Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  out  of  all  of  these  people — how  many  people  were 
present  in  Mary  Price's  apartment? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  can  not  recall,  sir ;  maybe  two,  maybe  three. 

ISIr.  Hebert.  You  mean  to  tell  me  that  a  man  in  OSS,  even  5  years 
later,  10  years  later,  or  20  years  later,  on  an  occasion  like  this,  which 
is  so  memorable,  cannot  tell  me  whether  two,  three,  four,  or  five  people 
were  present  in  Mary  Price's  apartment  when  you  met  Miss  Bentley? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  am  afraid  I  will  have  to  say  that,  yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Definitely  Mary  Price  could  say  whether  or  not  you 
met  Miss  Bentley  there? 

yiv.  Lee.  I  assume  she  could. 

3,Ir.  Hebert.  Your  wife  could  say  whether  she  met  Miss  Bentley  on 
that  occasion? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes.  sir. 

]Mr.  Hebert.  And  nobodv  else  ? 


742  CdMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Lee.  Well,  there  probabh-  are  otl\er  people,  sir,  but  I  do  not 
know  who  they  are  now, 

i\Ir.  Hebert.  Nobody  else  in  that  gathering  of  intellect  impressed 
you  as  JNIiss  Bentley  did? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sirl 

Mr.  Hebert.  She  was  an  outstanding  woman  in  that  crowd? 

Mr.  Lee.  She  seemed  to  be ;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  that  is  why  she  so  impressed  you? 

Mr.  Lee.  She  talked  to  us  most  of  the  time,  as  I  recall. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  if  there  had  been  anybody  there  of  equal  intellect 
or  of  attractiveness,  you  certainly^  would  have  remembered  it. 

Mr.  Lee.  Well,  nobody  else  was  there  of  equal  intellect  or  otherwise, 
Congressman,  who  appeared  to  find  us  attractive  enough  to  follow  us 
up  in  the  Avay  Miss  Bentley  did. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Now,  looking  back  in  retrospect,  you  think  Miss 
Bentley  had  a  purpose  in  following  you  up? 

Mr.  Lee.  That  may  be,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  do  you  think  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  am  frankly  completely  bewildered.  Congressman,  by 
Miss  Bentley's  testimony.  I  know  one  thing,  that  from  her  testimony 
of  today  she  has  an  extremely  vivid  imagination.  As  to  how  far  her 
description  of  activity  is  true,  I  really  cannot  say.  I  know  they  are 
not  true  as  far  as  I  am  concerned. 

]Mr.  HioBERT.  Then  I  will  ask  you  the  same  question  I  asked  Miss 
Bentley.  You  have  both  told  diametrically  opposed  stories,  and  one 
of  you  is  lying. 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is  right,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  are  not? 

Mr.  Lee.  Th;-t  is  right,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Now,  jou  say  Miss  Bentley  called  your  apartment, 
and  your  wife  said  that  you  should  go  down  to  meet  her  in  a  drug 
store. 

Mr.  Lee.  Well,  I  do  not  think  I  consulted  my  wife  on  that  point. 
Miss  Bentley  had  called  the  apartment  after  we  had  made  it  clear 
she  was  not  to  be  seen  by  us  any  more,  and  after  we  had  very  re- 
luctantly agreed  that  we  would  meet  her  in  public  occasionally. 

Ml-.  Hebert.  I  think  the  testimony  will  show  that  wdien  you  origi- 
nally testified  this  morning  you  said  that  Miss  Bentley  called,  and 
probably  your  wife  did  not  have  a  sitter  or  could  not  go  down, 
jind  she  told  you  to  go  down  and  see  Miss  Bentle}'  and  get  rid  of  her 
just  as  quickly  as  you  could. 

Mr.  Lee.  That  "is  right. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  is  not  what  5'ou  now  said. 

Mr.  Lee.  You  asked  if  I  was  given  permission. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Let  us  not  banter  Avith  Avords.     You  know  what  I  mean. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Tell  me  what  happened. 

Mr.  Lee.  Just  as  I  say,  Congressman,  Miss  Bentley  called  and  asked 
if  I  could  meet  her.  My  wife  said  in  elfect,  "I  don't  want  to  go,"  or 
"I  can't  go.  and  you  go  down  and  get  rid  of  her." 

Mr.  Hebert.  So,  she  told  you  to  go  down  to  the  drug  store  and  get 
rid  of  her. 

jNIr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  743 

Mr.  Hebert.  Yoli  are  an  old  OSS  man,  steeped  in  suspicion  and 
caution,  you  had  your  uniform  on.  You  did  not  want  to  see  Miss- 
Bentley  because  you  were  afraid  of  her  communistic  leanings. 

Mr,  Lee.  No,  sir ;  that  is  not  why  I  did  not  want  to  see  Miss  Bentley. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Wh}^  did  you  not  want  to  see  her? 

Mr.  Lee.  Because  she  was  a  j^ersonal  nuisance  to  me. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Didn't  you  say  that  you  could  not  agree  with  her  left- 
wing  leanings? 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is  right,  sir.     That  was  a  very  minor  factor. 

^Ir.  Hebert,  You.  an  OSS  man,  say  it  was  a  minor  factor  that  you 
were  associating  with  an  outspoken  Communist? 

JMr,  Lee.  I  do  not  know  she  was  a  Communist;  I  thought  her  views 
were  too  far  to  the  left. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Well,  you  described  in  detail  about  some  of  the  discus- 
sions you  had  about  the  second  front,  the  German-Russian  pact. 

Mr.  Lee,  Yes,  sir, 

ISIr,  Hebert.  You  just  did  not  pass  that  off  en  passant.  You  dis- 
cussed that  at  length. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  know  what  her  feelings  were? 

Mr.  Lee,  Yes,  sir. 

Mr,  Hebert.  You  knew  she  was  extremely  to  the  left? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir, 

Mr,  Hebert,  You  knew  she  was  extremely  pro-Soviet? 

Mr,  Lee.  Yes.  sir.     A  great  many  people  were  at  that  time, 

Mr,  Hebert.  Then,  you,  as  an  OSS  man,  consider  that  as  a  minor 
thing? 

Mr,  Lee,  I  did  not  consider  that  it  proved  tliat  she  was  a  member 
of  the  Communist  Part3^  and  certainly  did  not  consider  that  it  proved 
she  was  a  Russian  spy, 

Mr,  Hebert.  But  you  say,  you  did  not  want  to  see  her  any  more 
on  account  of  these  leanings,  and  on  account  of  the  personal  aspect, 

Mr,  Lee,  As  I  say,  this  was  a  minor  reason.  In  fact,  the  major 
reason  was  that  she  was  a  personal  nuisance  to  us.  and  we  did  not 
want  to  see  her. 

Mr.  Hebert.  In  other  words,  the  fact  of  her  leftist  leanings  had 
really  no  importance  at  all. 

Mr.  Lee.  If  she  had  not  been  a  personal  nuisance  to  us,  and  I  had 
no  i-eason  to  suppose  she  Avas  actually  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party,  I  imagine  Ave  would  have  continued  to  see  her. 

Mr,  Hebert.  Then,  it  did  not  have  anything  to  do  with  her  rela- 
tionship? 

Mr.  Lee.  It  was  an  element. 

Mr.  Hebert.  A  very  minor  element.  Did  you  not  testify  this  morn- 
ing that  you  did  not  want  to  be  seen  in  public  Avith  her? 

Mr.  Lee.  As  I  say,  sir,  that  was  a  very  minor  element.  The  only 
problem  here.  Congressman,  is  the  degree  of  importance  that  these 
two  motives  had.     I  tried  to  make  it  as  clear  as  possible. 

Mr.  Hebert.  But  a'ou  did  testify  you  did  not  want  to  be  seen  in 
public  with  her. 

Mr.  Lee.  I  do  not  think  I  said  that,  sir,  I  said  I  thought  it  was  a 
possible  source  of  embarrassment  to  have  as  a  knoAvn  friend  of  ours 
someone  who  was  now  talking  as  left-Aving  as  Miss  Bentley  was. 


744  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Hebert.  Repeat  that  so  I  can  get  it  clear.  I  am  a  little  dull. 
I  want  you  to  repeat  what  you  just  said. 

Mr.  Lee.  What  I  believe  I  said,  sir,  was  that  I  considered  it  a  possible 
source  of  embarrassment  in  my  position  to  have  as  a  friend  someone 
who  was  as  outspokenly  left-wing  as  Miss  Bentley  had  by  then  become. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  is  what  I  thought  you  said. 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is  right,  sir. 

Mr.  HEiiERT.  But  yet,  in  the  same  breath,  you  tell  us  that  that  was  a 
minor  consideration. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir ;  because  I  had  no  reason  to  suppose  that  she  was 
a  member  of  the  Communist  Party,  and  certainly  no  reason  to  suppose 
that  she  was  seeking  information  for  the  Communist  Party. 

Mr.  Hebert.  But  you  did  think  it  woukl  be  embarrassing  to  be  seen 
with  Miss  Bentley  because  of  her  communistic  leanings. 

Mr.  Lee.  I  thouglit  it  might  be. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  yet  you  met  her  in  a  public  place. 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is  right,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Was  that  the  last  time  you  met  her  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  The  last  time  I  met  her  was  in  a  drug  store  in  Georgetown ; 
yes,  sir ;  to  the  best  of  my  recollection. 

Mr.  Hebert.  After  the  phone  call  to  your  residence,  and  when  your 
wife  told  you  to  get  rid  of  her,  your  wife  told  you  to  go  out  and  get 
rid  of  her 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  never  saw  her  after  that  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Not  until  yesterday. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Not  until  yesterday.  She  never  called  your  home 
iigain  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  She  never  in  your  estimation  annoyed  you  any  more  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Never  attempted  to  contact  you  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No. 

Mr.  Hebert.  When  was  that  now  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  This  was  at  the  very  end  of  1944  or  early  January  1945.  I 
could  not  be  exact  about  that. 

Mr.  Hebert.  But  all  of  this  matter  which  was  being  discussed  now 
is  something  that  you  did  not  come  into  knowledge  of  when  this  hear- 
ing opened,  is  it? 

Mr.  Lee.  How  is  that,  sir? 

Mr.  Hebert.  This  matter  that  we  are  discussing  now,  this  is  not 
your  first  knowledge  of  it  Avhen  these  hearings  opened  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir.     I  was  questioned  nbout  it  a  year  ago. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  was  the  occasion  of  that  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  was  questioned  on  one  occasion  by  two  agents  of  the  FBI, 
and  somewhat  later  last  summer  I  was  questioned  by  the  grand  jury  in 
New  York. 

Mr.  Hebert.  In  this  same  connection  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mv.  Hebert.  Now,  you  say  ^liss  Bentley  was  a  very  emotional 
person  and  created  a  scene  in  your  home. 

Mr.  Lee.  She  did  on  that  occasion ;  yes,  sir. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  745 

Mr.  PIebert.  Did  it  occur  to  a  man  of  your  intelligence  that  she 
might  create  a  scene  in  a  public  place  such  as  a  drug  store  if  you  went 
out  to  see  her  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  hoped  I  could  avoid  having  her  do  that.  I  want  to  make 
clear  one  thing,  sir,  that,  though  we  wanted  to  end  this  relationship 
with  Miss  Bentley,  we  had  been  fond  of  her,  and  we  wanted  to  do  it  so 
that  it  would  not  hurt  her — to  do  it  in  a  way  that  would  hurt  her  a& 
little  as  possible.  We  were  not  motivated  entirely  by  a  fear  that  she 
would  create  a  scene.  We  simply  wanted  to  take  her  oS  our  list  of 
acquaintances. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Now,  when  you  were  questioned  previously  on  this 
matter,  were  the  same  facts  or  the  alleged  facts  presented  to  you  as 
charges  by  INIiss  Bentley  against  you? 

Mr.  Lee.  Miss  Bentley  Avas  not  present  when  I  was  questioned  pre- 
viously, sir,  and  I  am  not  sure  just  how  far  I  should  testify. 

Mr.  Hebert.  I  am  not  asking  3'ou  to  do  that.     I  recognize  that. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  As  far  as  the  grand  jury  is  concerned,  as  far  as  the 
FBI  is  concerned,  you  are  free  to  say  anything  you  told.  AVas  Miss 
Bentley's  name  projected  into  your  questioning  before  this  date  I 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  How  long  ago  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  About  a  year  ago. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Then,  for  1  year  you  have  had  the  knowledge  that  you 
have  been  charged  by  Miss  JBentley  or  others ;  certainly  you  have  had 
the  knowledge,  that  you  have  been  under  suspicion  to  the  degree  that 
you  have  been  questioned. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  In  connection  with  A^our  activities  during  the  Avar. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mv.  Hebert.  Noav,  this  Eussian  society  of — Avhat  do  you  call  it^ 
that  business  that  you  Avere  counsel  of  I 

Mr.  Lee.  Russian  War  Relief. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Yes.  What  kind  of  a  society  or  an  organization  Avas 
it? 

Mr.  Lee.  It  Avas  a  private  relief  organization. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Who  sponsored  it  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  A  great  many  people.  I  can  submit  for  the  committee, 
if  it  does  not  already  have  the  information,  the  m?mbers  of  its  board 
of  directors  and  sponsors,  and  so  on.  I  do  not  have  that  information 
Avith  me.  I  can  merely  say  this,  that  they  Avere,  to  the  best  of  my 
knoAAdedge,  all  extremely  respectable  conservative  people. 

Mr.  Hebert.  What  Avas  the  purpose  of  that  organization  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  To  raise  money  for  Russia. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Then,  to  raise  money  for  Russia 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir.  Russia  Avas  at  that  time  carrying,  I  think,  most 
people  felt,  the  brunt  of  the  Avar.  This  Avas  in  1941  and  1942.  A  great 
deal  of  money  Avas  raised  for  Russia. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  how  Avas  that  money  expended? 

Mr.  Lee.  Sir,  I  do  not  think  that  is  something  that  I  am  in  a  posi- 
tion to  testify  to. 

Mr.  Hebert.  AVell,  during  your  services  in  the  high  executive  posi- 
tion  


746  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Lee.  I  would  merely  say  this,  that  there  were  public  reports 
made  to  the  Presideut's  Committee  on  Relief  Organizations  and  other 
comjjetent  authorities,  and  those  reports  are  available. 

Mr.  Hebert.  This  was  in  1941  or  1942  that  you  were  associated 
with  them  ?     Well,  the  early  part  of  the  war. 

Mr.  Lee.  I  think  it  was  organized  in  1941.  Congressman,  and  I 
continued  my  association  until  I  left  New  York  in  1942. 

Mr.  Hebert.  In  your  duties  then  you  came  in  contact  with  many 
JRussian  peojDle,  undoubtedly. 

iNIr.  Lee.  Not  very  much ;  no,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  did  not  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Did  you  come  in  contact  vcith  any  Communists? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  would  not  know,  sir.  Most,  of  the  people  I  came  in 
contact  with  were  either  Wall  Street  bankers  or  Wall  Street  lawyers. 
[Laughter.] 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  would  be  in  your  general  duty.  I  mean  in  your 
duties  as  an  executive  of  the  Russian  society. 

Mr.  Lee.  Well,  those  are  the  people  I  dealt  with,  sir;  those  were 
the  members  of  the  board  and  the  top  executive  officers. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Well,  you  did  not  come  in  contact  with  people  who 
were — and  mind  you  I  do  not  cast  any  aspersion  on  the  Russian  who 
wants  to  be  a  Communist  if  he  wants  to  be  that ;  that  is  his  business — 
but  you  did  not  come  in  contact  Avith  any  of  these  Communists,  these 
official  representatives  of  the  Russian  Government  who  ipso  facto 
have  to  be  Communists? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.   You  never  came  in  contact 

Mr.  Lee.  I  w^as  invited  during  the  time  I  was  on  that  board  once 
to  a  leception  in  the  Russian  Embassy  in  Washington,  as  was  every 
member  of  the  board.    I  did  not  attend  that  since  I  was  in  New  Yoi-k. 

Ml'.  Hebert.  But  after  you  got  into  the  OSS,  were  you  not  in- 
structed in  the  ways  and  means  of  sort  of  recognizing  Communists 
or  s])ys  or  espionage  agents,  or  w^as  that  not  in  your  field  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  w^as  doing  administrative  or  legal  work,  sir.  I  was  not 
an  agent  in  that  field,  and  had  nothing  to  do  with  operations  until 
considerably  later. 

Mr.  Hebert.  But  you  came  in  contact  with  a  great  many  individuals 
in  OSS  who  were  well  schooled  in  that  art. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes.  sir.    And  there  was  careful 

Mr.  Hebert.  From  1  eing  exposed  to  contact  with  them,  didn't  you 
discuss  Russian  agents  and  Communists  and  espionage  agents? 

Mr.  Lee.  At  that  time,  sir,  we  were  more  inclined  to  discuss  German 
agents. 

jNIr.  Hebert.  The  OSS  was  never  suspicious  of  Russia  even  at  that 
time  ? 

INIr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mv.  Hebert.  Tliey  were  suspicious? 

jVFr.  Lee.  I  would  assume  so. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Well,  you  l:now.  sir.  do  you  not  ?    Didn't  you  discu=;s  it  ? 

ISIr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir;  I  am  sure  there  were  discussions.  But  I  cannot 
recfjll  anv  pai'ticular  discussions. 

INIr.  Hebert.  But  you  were  on  the  qui  vive  all  the  time,  were  you 
not? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  747 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Wh}'  is  it  that  you  missed  Miss  Bentley,  an  emo- 
lional  woman? 

Mr.  Lee.  Well,  sir,  being  an  emotional  woman  cannot  strike  me  and 
■does  not  now,  as  showing  that  she  was  a  Russian  espionage  agent. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Then  you  are  surprised  to  find  now  that  she  was  a 
Russian  espionage  agent? 

jNIr.  Lee.  I  was  surprised  to  find  it  when  I  first  learned  of  it. 

]Mr.  Hebert.  And  that  was  the  first  inkling  when  you  were  first  sum- 
moned for  questioning  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Was  that  the  first  time  that  you  heard  that  Golos  was 
a  Russian  espionage  agent? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

iVIr.  Hebert.  You  say  you  are  not  now  and  have  never  been  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is  right,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  heard  Miss  Bentley  testify  she  collected  Com- 
munist Party  dues  from  you. 

Mr.  Lee.  I  heard  that;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Is  that  true  or  not  true  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is  not  true. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  heard  Miss  Bentlev  describe  her  first  meeting 
and  going  to  your  apartment  and  introducing  herself  as  Helen,  and 
the  first  time  she  met  you  ? 

IMi".  Lee.  I  heard  that,  sir. 

j\Ir.  Hebert.  Is  that  true  ? 

]Mr.  Lee.  That  is  not  true. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  knew  her  previously  to  that? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Have  you  ever  been  a  member  of  any  organization 
whicli  was  later  described  as  a  front  organization  for  the  Communist 
Party? 

My.  Lee.  Not  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge,  sir.    I  am  sure  I  was  not. 

]\Ir.  Hebert.  Can  you  ascribe  any  reason  why  Miss  Bentley  should 
tell  such  a  fabrication,  as  you  submit  that  she  has  told  to  this  com- 
mittee and  to  otlier  Government  authorities  on  different  occasions, 
and  involve  you? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  certainly  cannot,  sir,  except  for  the  reason  I  suggested 
in  my  statement. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Repeat  it. 

Mr.  Lee.  I  will  just  read  this  paragraph,  if  I  may : 

It  is  har/l  for  me  to  believe  that  Miss  Rentley's  statements  are  those  of  a 
rational  person.  In  trying  to  recall  my  acquaintance  with  Miss  Bentley  I  have 
been  puzzled  that  I  do  not  remember  that  she  ever  tried  to  get  any  information 
from  me.  In  view  of  that  fact  I  am  tempted  to  believe  that  Miss  Bentley  used 
her  social  relationship  with  me  merely  to  help  her  misrepresent  to  her  employers 
for  her  own  i^ersonal  l)uild-up  that  she  had  access  through  me  to  someone  of  the 
importance  of  General  Donovan. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Is  that  the  only  reason  you  can  ascribe? 

Mr.  Lee.  There  may  be  personal  spite,  I  do  not  know. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Is  there  any  reason  for  her  to  have  personal  spite 
against  you? 

Mr.  Lee.  She  may  have  been  angry  because  we  broke  off  the  rela- 
tion.ship. 


748  ^  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Hebert.  Is  there  anvbodv  else  other  than  Miss  Bentley  who  ever 
associated  with  3^011  who  was  in  espionage  activities  c 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir;  so  far  as  I  know,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  And  now,  reviewing  your  Avhole  testimony,  reviewing 
the  whole  situation,  you  are  prepared  now  under  oath  to  say  that  all 
of  these  charges,  all  of  the  statements  as  directed  against  you,  are  not 
true? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  am  prepared  to  say  that,  sir.  and  may  I  add  one  thing 
at  that  point  regarding  some  of  the  information  that  Miss  B:ntley 
has  said  that  I  gave.  I  want  to  say  also  for  the  record  that  opera- 
tions of  the  OSS  in  Turkey  and  in  the  Balkans  were  something  that  I 
had  nothing  to  do  with,  and  knew  nothing  about,  except  in  the  most 
general  way.  And  as  far  as  an  exchange  of  NKVD-OSS  agents  goes, 
I  knew  generally  about  such  a  thing,  but  so  did  a  great  many  other 
people  in  Washington,  and  the  whole  story  has  been  told  iii'  consider- 
able detail  in  General  Donovan's  book. 

^Ir.  Hebert.  Is  that  one  particular  thing,  about  the  swapping  of 
the  agents? 

Mr.  Lee.  As  I  understand  it,  sir,  it  was  not  a  swapping  of  agents, 
in  the  first  place.    It  was  a  swapping  of  missions. 

Mr.  Hebert.  But  Miss  B?ntley  described  it  as  a  swapping  of 
agents  and  Avas  indefinite  as  to  the  number,  and  said  that  was  discussed 
with  you.    Was  that  ever  discussed  with  you? 

Mr.  Lee.  That  was  never  discussed  with  me,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  is  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  McDowell. 

Mr.  McDoavell.  Colonel  Lee,  will  vou  tell  me  the  various  ranks 
you  had  in  the  OSS  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  The  various  what,  sir? 

Mr.  McDow^ELL.  Ranks,  your  army  ranks. 

Mr.  Lee.  First  lieutenant,  captain,  major,  and  lieutenant  colonel. 

Mr.  McDow^ELL.  All  four  of  them? 

Ml-.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  McDowell.  All  officers  of  your  various  ranks  in  the  OSS,  I 
presume,  were  given  schooling  and  a  briefing  in  the  methods  and  the 
operation  of  the  OSS. 

Mr.  Lee.  It  W'Ould  depend  on  what  the  job  was,  sir.  There  was 
special  training  for  different  types  of  jobs.  As  I  say,  my  job  was  at 
all  times  administrative. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Well,  in  your  administrative  jobs — understand.  I 
am  making  no  effort  at  all  to  pry  into  the  secrets  of  the  OSS 

Mr.  Lee.  Right,  sir. 

Mr.  McDowell.  But  I  do  not  w^ant  you  to  answ^er  any  of  those. 
In  your  various  administrative  jobs,  you  would  have  other  officers, 
and  perhaps,  other  men  under  your  command? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Did  you  ever  make  any  effort  to  assure  yourself 
that  these  people  were  cautious  and  fearful  of  the  various  secret 
material  that  would  pass  over  your  desk  and  would  be  within  your 
jurisdiction? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir.  The  OSS,  as  every  agency  of  its  sort  during 
the  war,  had  very  strict  security  procedures  relating  to  the  handling 
of  classified  material,  when  they  should  be  disclosed,  and  so  forth,  and 
there  was  generally  A'ery  clear  and  very  thorough  security  instructions. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  749 

Mr.  McDoAVELL.  Colonel,  would  you,  in  your  various  ranks  up  to 
lieutenant  colonel,  ever  make  any  effort  to  assure  yourself  of  the  people 
under  you  and  whom  they  associated  with  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  That  was  the  responsibility,  sir,  of  the  Security  Office 
of  OSS.  I  did  not  make  a  personal  effort  to  find  out  who  every  indi- 
vidual I  associated — who  might  have  served  under  me  was  associating 
with  in  private  life :  no,  sir. 

Mr.  McDowell,  Would  it  be  your  responsibility? 

Mr,  Lee,  It  was  not  my  responsibility. 

Mr.  McDow^ell.  Now,  5  years  after  all  of  this,  does  it  not  occur 
to  you  that  it  was  strange,  very  strange,  that  a  now  known  Soviet 
spy,  recognized  espionage  agent,  had  at  least  two  meetings  with  you 
at  odd  places,  restaurants,  while  3'ou  were  a  responsible  officer  of  the 
hush-hush  organization  ? 

Mr.  Lee,  Xo,  sir ;  it  does  not  seem  to  me  strange  under  the  circum- 
stances that  I  have  given, 

Mr,  McDowell,  This  Golos,  it  appears,  was  a  highly  important 
Soviet  agent, 

Mr,  Lee,  So  I  am  given  to  understand,  sir. 

Mr,  McDowell,  Do  you  believe  he  was  ? 

JNIr,  Lee,  I  know  nothing,  sir,  except  what  I  have  read  in  the  news- 
pai)ers,  I  certainly  would  not  have  gotten  that  impression  from 
meeting  him.  He  was,  on  the  whole,  a  very  colorless  character,  and, 
iis  I  say,  very  ill. 

Mr.  McDowell,  Would  his  conversation  with  you  at  these  various 
restaurants  verge  into  politics,  left-wing  affairs,  Soviet  affairs? 

Mr,  Lee.  I  do  not  recall  that  they  did ;  no. 

]\Ir.  McDowell.  Never  discussed  any  second  front  or  anything  of 
that  kind? 

Mr.  Lee.  He  may  have  touched  on  it.  That  was  being  discussed 
all  tlie  time,  but  only  in  the  way  anyone  would  have  discussed  it, 

]Mr.  McDowell.  I  think  it  would  not  violate  any  important  secrets 
if  you  would  answer  this.  In  the  ranks  of  lieutenant  colonel  and 
major  and  captain  and  first  lieutenant,  you  were  not  required  to  indi- 
cate to  some  person,  some  superior,  some  security  officer,  whom  you 
are  associated  with 

]\Ir.  Lee.  We  were  never — so  far  as  I  know,  no  one  was  ever  required 
to  give  a  list  of  every  acquaintance  he  had.  Of  course,  everyone  who 
had  the  reason  to  suppose  that  he  was  seeing  or  had  an  acquaintance 
witli  a  suspicious  person  was  under  the  duty  to  report  it.  That  goes 
without  saying,  sir. 

Mr.  McDowell..  Well,  now,  Mr.  Chairman,  here,  for,  I  believe, 
the  first  time  since  the  conspiracy  of  Aaron  Burr,  a  high  officer  of 
the  Army  has  been  accused  publicly  of  the  violation  of  the  Articles 
of  War,  which  he  must  certainly  realize  the  penalties  of  and  the  pun- 
ishment. The  questions  which  are  flooding  my  mind  at  this  moment, 
I  feel,  should  not  be  given  here,     I  have  no  further  questions  now. 

The  Chairmax,  Mr,  Mundt, 

Mr.  Mundt,  As  I  remember  correctly,  Mr,  Lee,  you  said  that  you 
had  first  met  Miss  Bentley  in  the  home  of  Mary  Price.  . 

Mr,  Lee,  Yes,  sir, 

Mr.  Mundt,  In  October  of  1943. 

Mr.  Lee,  To  the  best  of  my  recollection  that  is  the  date,  I  am 
positive  about  the  year. 


750  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  are  positive  about  the  year? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  am  positive  about  the  year  and  about  the  place. 

Mr.  Mi'NDT.  It  might  be  a  discrepancy  of  a  month  or  two? 

Mr.  Lee.  Oh,  certainly,  sir. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  How  long  after  you  first  met  Miss  Bentley  did  you 
first  meet  Mr.  Golos  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  think  it  was  6  to  8  weeks  afterward.  I  cannot — it  was 
early  in  our  acquaintance;  I  know  that.     I  cannot  say  positively. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Six  or  eight  weeks  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  iNlt  NOT.  How  long  after  your  first  meeting  with  Mr.  Golos  did 
you  meet  Mr.  Golos  for  the  second  time? 

Mr.  Lee.  It  was  some  weeks  later.     I  do  not  remember  how  long^ 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Approximately  how  long? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  am  afraid  I  do  not  recall  that,  Congressman. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  You  must  have  some  idea. 

Mr.  Lee.  Well,  I  would  say  i  or  5  weeks,  maybe.  It  was  whenever 
I  Avas  in  New  York  next  and  called  Miss  Bentley. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  When  did  Mr.  Golos  die,  Mr.  Stripling? 

ISIr.  Stripling.  November  1948. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  NoM%  you  have  testified  that  you  met  him  first — that 
you  met  Miss  Bentley  first  in  October  1943,  and  that  6  or  8  weeks  later, 
which  would  be  so)netime  in  November  or  December  1943,  you  met 
Golos  for  the  first  time,  and  a  month  or  so  later,  which  would  take  us 
at  least  2  months  beyond  the  time  of  his  death,  you  met  him  the  second 
time.     How  do  you  explain  that  discrepancy? 

Mr.  Lee.  That  was  to  the  best  of  my  recollection,  sir.  As  I  say,  this 
was  5  years  ago,  and  I  cannot  be  positive  of  these  dates. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  realize  that  if  you  first  met  Miss  Bentley  in  Octo- 
ber 1943,  as  I  say  you  say  you  did,  then  your  story  is  not  correct  as 
to  the  meeting  of  Mr.  Golos. 

Mv.  Lee.  If  he  died  in  November,  I  realize  that  there  certainly  is 
a  discrepancy  there.  Maybe  I  met  Miss  Bentley  before  that!  I 
thought  it  was  in  October,  directly  after  I  came  back  from  the  Far 
East. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  That  is  the  date  which  we  might  be  able  to  substantiate, 
}  ou  believe,  by  talking  to  Mary  Price. 

Mr.  Lee.  Well,  the  reason  I  remember  the  date  is  I  thought  it  was 
f.fter  my  trip  to  the  Far  East. 

Mr.  ]\IuNDT.  I  am  sorry ;  I  did  not  get  the  answer. 

Mr,  Lee.  Excuse  me,  sir.  I  say  the  reason  I  have  given  the  date  is 
on  account  of  the  fact  that  I  believe  it  was  directly  after  my  trip  to 
the  Far  P^ast.     I  do  not  recall  having  met  Miss  Bentley  before  that. 

Mr.  Mfndt.  Were  you  on  official  business  at  that  time  so  that,  per- 
Invps,  some  voucher  that  you  put  in  for  an  expense  trip  to  New  York 
iniglit  indicate  the  exact  time  of  your  meeting  with  Miss  Bentley? 

Mr.  I^EE.  It  is  possible,  sir.  1  made  a  great  many  trips  to  New 
York. 

Mi-.  Mi^xDT.  Were  you  on  an  official  business  trip  to  New  York  at 
tliat  time? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir;  I  am  quite  sure  I  was. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  To  Avhom  did  you  submit  your  travel  vouchers  for  re- 
imbursement for  pay? 


COAIAIUNIST   ESPIONAGE  751 

Mr.  Lee.  I  am  trying  to  recall  now  just  what  the  procedures  were. 
Jt  lias  been  some  time  since  I  did  that.     To  the  finance  officer  in  OSS. 

Mr.  MrxDT.  Could  that  be  made  a  matter  of  public  record  as  to  the 
\ouchers  that  you  submitted  for  pay  during  194-3  to  the  finance  officer 
of  OSS? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  assume  it  could  be.  sir. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  We  would  have  your  i)ermission  to  check  the  records?' 

Mr.  Lee.  Oh,  certainly,  sir. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  The  Goyernment's  permission 

Mr.  Lee.  Certainly,  sir. 

Mv.  Hebert.  ]May  I  interpose  and  say  that  we  may  not  be  able  to  get 
the  Goyernment's  permission? 

Mr.  MrxDT.  I  understand  that  the  Ferguson  committee  has  run  into 
an  iron  curtain,  and  we  may.  too.  so  I  want  to  know  if  the  witness  is 
'-  -illing  to  giye  us  his  permission,  so  that  if  we  cannot  get  the  record 
I'.ecause  of  the  willful  obstinancy  on  the  part  of  the  administration, 
it  will  be  that,  and  not  because  of  failing  to  get  the  permission  of  the- 
witness. 

You  realize,  of  course,  that  that  is  a  vevj  important  link  in  this 
testimony,  because  of  the  death  of  Mr.  Golos  in  November  of  1943, 
which  should  be  a  matter  of  record,  there  should  be  a  matter  of  record 
;is  to  whether  or  not — you  should  be  able  to  substantiate  whether  or 
I'ot  you  met  her  in  October  1943. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Now,  we  know  that  he  died  in  November  1943.  Does, 
that  help  you  refresh  3'our  memory,  to  change  your  testimony  in  any 
connection  with  what  you  have  said  about  Mr.  Golos? 

]Mr.  Lee.  All  I  can  say,  Mr.  Congressman,  after  5  years,  to  the  best 
of  my  recollection,  when  asked,  it  was  in  October.  Now,  I  am  per- 
lectly  prepared  to  admit  that  my  recollection  could  be  faulty,  and 
tiiat  I  met  Miss  Bentley  several  months  before. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  think  you  testified  that  among  the  organizations  to 
which  you  belonged  in  New  York  was  the  Institute  of  Pacific  Rela- 
tions. 

Mr.  Lee.  Not  when  I  was  in  New  York,  sir.  I  did  not  join  the 
Institute  of  Pacific  Relations  until  1946. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  Are  3^011  present!}'  a  member  of  the  Institute  of  Pacific 
Relations  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  am,  sir;  y«s. 

INIr.  MuxDT.  Is  that  the  organization  of  which  Mr.  Edward  C. 
Carter  is  the  president? 

]\Ir.  Lee.  Yes,  sir;  I  think  he  is  called  the  executive  secretary. 

]Mr.  MuNDT.  Executive  secretary. 

Mr.  Lee.  At  least,  he  is  the  head  of  it. 

Mr.  Mux^DT.  That  is  correct.  Are  you  reasonablj-  familiar  witk 
the  members  of  the  board  of  directors  of  the  Institute  of  Pacific 
Relations? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir;  I  am  not.  I  became  a  member  of  the  Institute  of 
Pacific  Relations  principally  to  subscribe  to  the  research  studies  and 
other  literature  which  they  put  out.  I  take  no  active  organizational 
part. 

]Mr.  MrxDT.  But  you  ha^-e  known  Edwavcl  C.  Carter? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir ;  personally. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  Do  you  know  Mr.  Frederick  V.  Field? 


752  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir ;  I  have  never  met  Mr.  Field. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Do  you  know  whether  he  is  a  member  of  the  board  of 
clii'ectors  of  the  Institute  of  Pacific  Relations? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  seem  to  recall  that  I  have  heard  tliat  he  is,  but  I  am  not 
sure. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Do  you  know  that  Mr.  Frederick  V.  Field  is  a  Com- 
munist ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  do  not  know  Mr.  Field,  sir. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  That  was  not  my  question. 

Mr.  Lee.  I  do  not  know  whether  he  is  a  Communist  or  not,  sir. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  There  is  no  reason  to  believe  he  is  a  Communist? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  know  practically  nothing  about  Mr.  Field,  except  that 
I  have  heard  his  name.     That  is  all, 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  have  just  one  final  question,  which  to  me  is  the  part 
of  your  testimony  which  I  wish  you  could  tie  together,  at  least,  to 
i.etter  satisfaction,  as  far  as  I  am  concerned. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Tliat  is  the  fact  that  certainly  your  whole  sequence  of 
experience  with  Miss  Bentley  nuist,  to  a  young  man  of  your  intelli- 
gence, have  seemed  unusual  by  the  time  that  you  desired,  on  consulta- 
tion with  your  wife,  to  terminate  it. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  It  is  not  the  normal  kind  of  sequence  of  friendship 
which  the  average  person  has. 

Mr,  Lee,  No,  sir ;  I  hope  I  never  make  another  friendship  like  it. 

Mr.  MuNDT,  Eight. 

Mr,  Lee,  It  was  unusual,  sir,  in  a  personal  sense.  I  can  merely  re- 
peat again  that  there  was  nothing  in  my  acquaintance  with  Miss 
Bentley  to  lead  me  to  suppose  that  she  was  a  Russian  or  a  Communist 
agent. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  But  you  did  testify  that  there  were  many  indications 
that  led  you  to  believe,  near  the  time  that  you  terminated  your  friend- 
ship, that  she  was  pro-Communist;  she  was  talking  the  Communist 
line,  about  various  incidents  that  you  described,  the  specific  items 
which  led  you  to  distrust  her. 

Mr.  Lee,  Yes,  sir,  that  is  true.  But  a  great  many  people  have  held 
such  views  without,  so  far  as  I  know%  being  concerned  with  any  such 
activity  as  Miss  Bentley  claims  she  is  concerned  with. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  But  none  of  them  had  persistently  endeavored  to  im- 
pose themselves  upon  you,  and  to  associate  with  you  ? 

Mr,  Lee.  No,  that  is  true. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  But  in  view  of  all  of  that,  you  still  insist  that  you 
never  discussed  this  whole  sequence  in  any  way,  shape,  or  form  with 
any  of  your  superior  officers  ? 

Mr,  Lee.  I  certainly  do, 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Wliy  not  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  What  is  that,  sir  ? 

Mr.  MuNDT.  With  any  of  your  superior  officers  ? 

Mr.  Lee,  No,  sir,  I  did  not  because  I  thought  there  was  nothing,  as 
far  as  I  knew — there  was  nothing  that  would  justify  reportiug  Miss 
Bentley,  As  far  as  I  was  concerned,  she  was  a  neurotic  friend  which 
presented  a  personal  probl^em,  and  there  was  no  occasion  to  make  any 
such  report,  I  have  known  various  friends  of  mine  who  have  lefter 
views  than  mine.    It  would  never  occur  to  me 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  753 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  had  other  friends  at  that  time  whom  you  felt 
might  be  Communists,  who  were  seeking  to  impose  themselves  upon 
you? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  INIuNDT.  She  was  the  only  one  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  MuxDT.  But  still  you  made  no  mention  of  that? 

]\Ir.  Lee.  I  assumed  she  was  seeking  to  impose  herself  upon  us  for 
personal  reasons. 

Mr.  INIuNDT.  It  did  not  occur  to  you  that  the  fact  that  she  was  so  pro- 
Communist  had  anything  to  do  with  it  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  do  not  believe  that  anyone  who  has  talked  to  Miss  Bentley 
would  get  the  impression  that  she  could  be  engaged  in  any  such  activity. 

Mr.  INIuNDT.  That  is  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Mr.  Chairman,  may  I  ask  a  question?  Mr.  Lee,  what 
is  your  attitude  toward  the  Soviet  Union  as  of  this  moment? 

Mr.  Lee.  Well,  frankly,  sir,  I  don't  like  a  great  deal  about  the 
Soviet  Union.  I  do  not  like  its  political  system,  and  I  do  not  like  its 
conduct  in  foreign  affairs. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Have  you  ever  criticized  the  Soviet  Union  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir ;  many  times. 

Mr.  Mtjndt.  Then,  in  the  event  of  a  war,  whom  would  you  be  loyal 
to,  America  or  tlie  Soviet  Union  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  America,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  That  is  all. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  McDowell,  do  you  have  any  more  questions  ? 

Mr.  McDowell.  I  have  no  more  questions,  Mr.  Chairman,  but  in 
view  of  the  testimony  which  has  been  given  here  today,  and  in  the  last 
several  days,  it  strikes  at  the  very  heart  of  America,  its  security.  It 
has  finally  gotten  into  the  United  States  Army.  Now,  despite  the 
lack  of  success  this  committee  has  had  in  getting  vitally  important  in- 
formation from  the  executive  branch  of  the  Government,  and  despite 
the  lack  of  success  the  Senate  committee  has  experienced,  I  think  once 
again  that  we  should  appeal  to  the  executive  branch  of  the  Govern- 
ment to  supply  us  with  that  material  which  we  need  to  further  this 
investigation;  and  I  think  that  the  chief  investigator  should  be  in- 
structed to  once  again  appeal  to  those  agencies  of  the  Government  that 
can  give  us  information  which  will  aid  in  solving  this  conspiracy  that 
undoubtedly  has,  and  did,  fasten  itself  on  our  Government.  I  am 
going  to  continue  making  that  demand  just  so  long  as  these  hearings 
go  on,  and  if  the  demand  is  not  met  with  so  far  as  this  committee  is 
concerned,  which  has  furnished  some  22,000  times  information  to 
the  executive  branch  of  the  Government,  those  responsible  for  the 
refusal  must  face  the  wrath  of  the  American  people. 

The  Chairman.  The  Chair  would  like  to  say  right  at  that  point 
that  this  committee  will  seek  information  from  various  agencies  of 
the  Government  in  the  next  few  weeks  in  the  course  of  these  hear- 
ings, and  in  the  course  of  other  hearings,  and  there  will  be  no  question 
but  that  we  will  not  hesitate  to  seek  the  information.  We  will  go 
after  the  information,  all  right,  and  we  have  a  lot  of  information  that 
we  would  like  to  get,  and  we  will  not  hesitate  to  request  it. 

Mr.  Hebert.  In  connection  with  what  has  been  said  by  you  and 
Mr.  McDowell,  let  me  make  this  point,  which  I  think  is  most  im- 

80408—48 17 


754  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

portant  at  this  time.  That  forgetting  whatever  else  has  been  de- 
veloped at  these  hearings,  forgetting  the  implications  of  this  far-flung 
espionage  ring  which  exists,  there  is  no  doubt  in  anybody's  mind,  and 
forgetting  whether  we  have  been  able  to  adduce  the  facts  and  the  truth 
in  connection  with  them,  there  is  one  thing  that  is  self-evident,  and 
that  is  the  fact  that  a  crime  or  a  violation,  a  criminal  violation,  of  the 
law  has  been  committeed  before  this  committee.  These  hearings  are 
filled  with  perjured  testimony.     There  can  be  no  doubt  about  it. 

Witnesses  have  made  diametrically  opposed  statements  under  oath 
which,  of  necessity,  makes  one  a  perjured  witness,  and  in  furtherance 
of  your  opening  statement  when  these  hearings  started,  that  this  mat- 
ter was  going  to  be  turned  over  to  the  Department  of  Justice,  and 
asked  to  be  placed  before  a  grand  jury  for  full  investigation,  there  is 
one  fact  that  the  Department  of  Justice  cannot  escape,  that  is,  that 
perjury  has  been  committed  here,  and  it  is  entirely  their  responsibility, 
and  they  cannot  evade  it,  that  when  their  attention  is  called  to  this 
matter,  there  must  be  prosecution  for  perjury  on  the  part  of  the  De- 
partment of  Justice  as  to  these  witnesses. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  would  like  to  associate  myself  with 
the  statements  just  made  by  Mr.  Hebert,  and  to  point  out  one  further 
fact,  that  in  the  interest  of  justice,  that  is  all  this  committee  is  inter- 
ested in,  and  in  the  interests  of  national  security,  that  primarily  at 
this  point  in  the  interest  of  justice,  either  some  very  innocent-sounding 
people  are  guilty  of  some  very  infamous  crimes,  or  else  some  innocent 
people  have  been  injured  by  some  highly  infamous  testimony ;  and  I 
think  that  the  executive  agency  owes  it  to  the  public,  just  as  this 
committee  owes  it  to  the  public,  to  try  to  get  at  the  facts  and  see  which 
of  the  two  horns  of  that  dilemma  is  accurate.  The  only  way  it  can 
be  done  is  to  have  cooperation  instead  of  stubborn,  obstinate  conceal- 
ment by  the  executive  agency,  and  I  hope  we  will  press  for  that  kind 
of  cooperation  and  insist  that  this  thing  be  tried  out  to  the  final,  last 
element  of  truth. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Mr.  Mundt,  I  agree  with  you,  but  I  do  press  the  point, 
that  regardless  of  the  excuses  given  for  not  furnishing  us  with  in- 
formation, which  we  rightly  and  justly  deserve,  in  connection  -with 
justice,  and  that  is  all  I  am  interested  in,  I  frankly  tell  you  I  do  not 
know  who  is  a  liar  and  who  is  not  a  liar,  but  I  am  going  to  find  out, 
and  I  want  to  find  out.  I  hold  no  brief  for  either  side  except  in  the 
integrity  of  this  committee,  and  in  the  integrity  of  any  congressional 
committee,  and  forgetting  any  excuse  or  lack  of  desire  on  the  part  of 
Government  officials  to  prosecute,  they  cannot  escape  the  fact  that 
perjury  has  been  committed  before  this  committee;  and  I,  for  one, 
insist  and  demand  that  the  Department  of  Justice  take  steps  to  pros- 
ecute the  guilty  individual  or  individuals  who  have  committed  perjury 
before  a  congressional  committee. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  agree  100  percent. 

The  Chairman.  Now,  Mr.  Lee. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

The  CiiAiRMAX.  I  want  to  get  back  to  the  meeting  at  the  Price 
apartment  in,  I  think  you  said  it  was,  October  1943. 
.Mr.  Lee.  That  was  my  recollection,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Who  contacted  you,  who  invited  you  to  that 
meeting  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Miss  Price, 


I  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  755 

The  Chairman.  Miss  Price  did? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  would  you  let  the  record  show  that 
this  is  a  subcommittee  sitting? 

The  Chairman.  The  record  already  shows  that. 

Mr.  Stripling.  All  right. 

The  Chairman.  Was  Mr.  Golos  present  at  that  meeting? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir.     I  am  quite  sure  I  met  Mr.  Golos  later. 

The  Chairman.  The  only  ones  that  you  can  recall  are  Miss  Bentley 
and  Miss  Price. 

Mr.  Lee.  And  my  wife  was  there. 

The  Chairman.  And  your  wife. 

Mr.  Lee.  And  my  impression  is  that  there  were  several  other  people. 

The  Chairman.  Your  impression  is  that  thei-e  were  several  other 
people. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  two  or  three  other  people  were  probably  there,  too. 

The  Chairman.  You  cannot  recall  the  names  of  one  of  those  other 
persons  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir;  I  cannot. 

Mi\  ^NIuNDT.  Were  there  any  other  men  there?  You  were  at  a 
meeting  entirely  surrounded  by  women? 

Mr.  Lee.  Well,  I  do  not  have  the  recollection,  Mr.  Mundt,  that  there 
Avas.     I  think  probably  if  there  were  I  probably  woidd  have  noticed  it. 

Mr.  Mundt.  You  probably  would  have  recalled  if  you  were  the  only 
man  there. 

Mr.  Lee.  Well,  I  might.     I  just  do  not  remember. 

The  Chairman.  Was  that  meeting  at  the  apartment  during  the 
da.ytime  or  in  the  evening? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  believe  it  was  in  the  evening,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  What  was  the  reason  for  the  meeting? 

Mr.  Lee.  We  were  asked  to  drop  in  for  drinks,  as  I  recall  it. 

The  Chairman.  You  know,  if  you  could  recall  the  name  of  one  other 
person,  it  would  helj)  you. 

Mr.  Lee.  I  have  tried  to.  sir.  and  I  cannot. 

The  Chairman.  Can't  jonr  wife  recall  the  name  of  any  other 
people  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  do  not  believe  so,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  But  3^011  seem  to  be  so  clear  about  all  these  other 
meetings,  and  so  foggy  about  this  one. 

Mr.  Lee.  Well,  this  was  the  furthest  back,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Lee,  did  you  ever  furnish  any  information,  oral 
or  written,  to  Mary  Price? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  At  no  time  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  meet  Mary  Price  first  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  met  her  in  New  York  at  our  apartment,  where  her  sister 
Mildred  brought  her,  I  think,  in  1940. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  her  very  well  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  We  got  to  know  her  quite  well ;  yes. 

ISIr.  Stripling.  You  never  at  any  time  gave  her  any  information  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

jSlr.  Stripling.  Was  she  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  do  not  know,  sir. 


756  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  We]],  liow  often  did  you  see  Mary  Price  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Weli.  we  only  really  remained  friends  of  Mary  Price's 
Av]ien  we  came  to  Wasliington  and  knew  very  few  people. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  many  times  would  you  saj^  that  you  saw  Mary 
Price  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  have  no  idea.  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Ten  times  ? 

Mr,  Lee.  I  sliould  think  at  least  tliat. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Ten  times.     From  the  conversation  tliat  you  had 
witli  Mary  Price,  would  you  gatlier  tliat  slie  miglit  be  a  Communist? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  really  would  not  care  to  say,  sir.     I  know  that  she  had 
very  lilieral  views,  but  you  would  not  say  she  was  a  Communist. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  3'ou  make  any  effort  to  determine  whetlier  she 
was  a  Communist? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir;  I  assumed  slie  was  not. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Wliat  otlier  friends  did  you  have  in  Washington 
beside  Mary  Price? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  had  a  great  many  friends  in  Washington  as  we  stayed 
tliere  longer  and  met  more  people. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  Icnow"  Donald  X.  Wheeler  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  have  known  him  a  long  time  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  have  known  him  since  1935. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  go  to  school  together? 

Mr.  Lee.  We  first  met  on  the  boat  going  to  England  in  1935. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  work  in  the  OSS? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  he  enter  OSS? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  think 

Mr.  Stripling.  OSS  employment. 

Mr.  Lee.  I  thinly  lie  entered  OSS  employment,  I  think,  in  the  very 
beginning  of  the  COI,  wliich  was  tlie  predecessor  organization. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  lie  precede  you? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir ;  he  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  While  he  was  in  OSS,  were  you  closely  associated 
with  him? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  see  him? 

Mr.  Lee.  Oli,  yes ;  I  tliought  you  meant  in  a  business  way. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  see  liim  socially? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes;  I  saw  him  socially. 

Ml'.  Stripling.  Where  is  he  now? 

Mr.  Lee.  He  is  on  the  west  coast,  in  Washington,  I  believe.  I  thinlc 
lie  lias  bought  a  farm  there. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Is  Don  Wlieeler  a  memlier  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  do  not  believe  so,  sir,  but  I  do  not  know. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  your  conversations  Avitli  him — did  you  ever  de- 
termine whetlier  or  not  lie  ]iad  Communist  views? 

Mr.  Lee.  Donald  Wheeler  was  a  very  argumentative  individual,  who 
would  usuaHy  take  tlie  opposite  side  of  whatever  was  the  prevailing 
opinion  in  any  group,  so  sometimes  he  took  left-wing  views,  and  some- 
times very  conservative  ones  usually  for  tlie  pleasure  of  arguing. 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  757 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  ever  tell  you  that  he  belonged  to  three  organi- 
zations which  the  Attorney  General  said  were  subversive  organi- 
zations? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir ;  he  never  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  He  admitted,  Mr.  Chairman,  before  the  Civil  Serv- 
ice Commission,  February  12, 1942,  that  he  was  a  member  of  the  Amer- 
ican League  for  Peace  and  Democracy,  the  Washington  Committee  to 
Aid  China,  and  the  Washington  Bookshop,  all  of  which  were  Commu- 
nist front  organizations,  and  so  found  by  the  Attorney  General. 

Were  j^ou  ever  active  in  the  Washington  Committee  to  Aid  China  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  But  vou  were  not  aware  that  Mr.  Wheeler  belonged 
to  these  Communist  front  organizations? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  do  not  believe  I  was.  sir :  no. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  never  furnished  any  information  to  Marv 
Price? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir.     Nor  to  any  other  unauthorized  person. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  hear  of  World  Tourist? 

]\Ir.  Lee.  I  do  not  think  so ;  no. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  did  not  know  that  that  was  an  official  Soviet 
agency  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  As  I  said.  I  do  not  belieA^e  I  have  ever  heard  of  it. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  did  not  know  that  Mr.  Golos  was  connected 
with  it? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Is  there  any  statement  that  you  want  to  make  to 
the  committee  at  this  time  in  connection  Avith  the  testimony  that  has 
been  received  ? 

]Mr.  Lee.  There  is  only  one  request  that  I  have  to  make  of  the  com- 
mittee at  this  time.  I  would  appreciate  it  if  the  committee  would  put 
in  the  record  of  this  hearing  a  telegram  which  was  received,  dated 
August  5,  from  IMr.  O.  C.  Doering,  who  is  one  of  General  Donovan's 
officers  and  the  executive  officer  of  OSS,  and  my  immediate  superior. 
I  had  hoped  that  I  miglit  know  sufficiently  in  advance  when  I  was 
to  testify  so  that  Mr.  Doering  could  be  present.  Pie  has  requested 
an  opportunity  to  testify,  and  I  believe  that  General  Donovan  would 
like  to  testify. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Just  a  moment.     You  have  a  telegram? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  have  a  telegram ;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Is  that  Otto  C.  Doering  of  Chicago? 

Mr.  Lee.  He  lived  in  Chicago  at  one  time — from  Wisconsin. 

Mr,  MuNDT.  Is  that  the  Mr.  Doering  who  used  to  be  with  Sears, 
Eoebuck  ? 

JNIr.  Lee.  Well,  that  may  be  his  father.  This  Mr.  Doering  lias 
been 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  know  an  Otto  C.  Doering  who  was  vice  president  at 
one  time  of  Sears,  Roebuck. 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is  the  name,  sir.  and  this  is  Otto  C.  Doering,  Jr. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Lee.  when  the  telegram  Avas  received  I  talked 
to  you  about  it,  did  I  not  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 


758  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  I  not  suggest  to  you  to  have  Mr.  Doering  come 
here  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  And  sit  with  you  or  not  as  your  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir.  I  explained,  sir,  that  Mr.  Doering  was  in  Wis- 
consin and  I  would  try  to  get  him  heie  if  I  could  be  told  sufficiently 
in  advance. 

Mr.  Stripling.  But  we  suggested  that  you  bring  him  here. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir;  but  not  without  a  date  certain  having  been  set. 
You  may  recall,  Mr.  Stripling,  that  I  also  wrote  the  committee  asking, 
if  possible,  to  be  given  48  hours  notice  so  that  I  could  get  Mr.  Doering 
here. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Well,  you  had,  I  believe,  4  days  after  you  were  sub- 
penaed  to  appear. 

Mr.  Lee.  No  ;  I  talked  with  you,  Mr.  Stripling,  and  you  said  that  on 
9  :  30  Monday  morning  you  would  tell  me  when  to  appear. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes. 

Mr.  Lee.  On  9  :  30  INIonday  morning.  I  believe,  I  was  told  to  appear 
at  2  o'clock,  and  then  it  was  far  too  late  to  get  Mr.  Doering  present. 

Mr.  Stripling.  But  you  were  subpenaed  to  appear  on  Thursday  of 
last  week. 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  And  you  appear  now  on  Tuesday.  I  mean,  you 
had  sufficient  time  to  get  Mr.  Doering  here. 

Mr.  Lee.  For  all  I  know,  Mr.  Stripling,  I  might  not  have  been  heard 
for  weeks. 

Mr.  Stripling.  But  you  did  not  bring  ]Mr.  Doering  here. 

The  Chairman.  Well,  I  think  that  is  a  little  beside  the  point. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes,  I  agree;  but  I  want  the  record  to  show  that 
I  suggested  that  he  bring  Mr.  Doering  here  and  sit  with  him  and  act 
as  his  counsel. 

The  Chairman.  Would  you  like  that  in  the  record  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  would  like  it  in  the  record,  and  I  would  like  to  say  what 
Mr.  Stripling  has  said — Mr.  Doering  is  on  vacation,  and  I  tlid  not 
want  to  ask  him  to  come  here  until  a  date  certain  had  been  fixed,  and 
no  date  certain  has  been  fixed  for  him  to  be  present. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Is  this  telegram  in  response  to  a  communication  that 
you  made  to  Mr.  Doering? 

Mr.  Lee.  No,  sir.  I  informed  Mr.  Doering  on  the  telephone  of 
what  had  happened. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  talked  with  him  on  the  telephone  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  And  it  is  after  that  telepho'iie  call  that  he  sent  you  this 
wire  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  That  is  right.  He  did  not  send  it  to  me.  He  sent  it  to  the 
chairman. 

The  Chairman.  Without  objection  it  will  be  placed  in  the  record  at 
this  point. 

(The  telegram  referred  to  reads  as  follows :) 

Washington,  D.  C,  August  5,  19^8. 
Hon.  .T.  Parnkll  Thomas, 

Chairman,  House  Un-American  Affairs  Committee, 
Old  House  Office  Building,  Washington.  D.  C: 
While  on  vacation  in  north  Wisconsin  I  have  just  seen  newspaper  accounts 
regarding  Duncan  Lee.     As  former  executive  officer  of  OSS  I  vrould  be  glad  to 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  759 

testify  before  your  committee  regarding  Lee.  I  want  to  say  now  that  I  knew 
his  work  during  the  war  and  I  completely  belieA'e  in  his  loyalty  to  the  OSS  and 
to  his  country.  I  have  absolute  faith  In  his  innocence  of  the  charges  made 
against  liim  by  Elizabeth  Bentley. 

O.   C.  DOERING, 

Care  of  Donovan,  Leisure,  Netvton,  Lomhard  d  Irvine,  Washington,  D.  C. 

INIr.  Hebeut.  Where  is  Mary  Price  today? 

INIr.  Lee.  I  do  not  know,  sir.  I  saw  somewhere  in  the  newspapers 
where  she  was  in  North  Carolina. 

]\Ir.  Hebert.  Is  that  the  same  Mary  Price  who  was  organizing  the 
Wallace- for-President  group  down  there? 

Mr.  Lee.  I  assume  so,  sir. 

Mr.  Hep^ert.  And  Mr.  Wallace  has  been  backed,  or  rather  has  been 
taken  in  completely  by  the  Communist  Part}^  ? 

Mr.  Lee.  Is  that  a  question,  sir? 

Mr.  Heber'^v  I  will  make  that  as  a  statement.  I  will  not  ask  you 
that.     I  just  wanted  to  establish  that,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  I  think  that  is  well  established,  and  you  do  not  have 
to  reestablish  it. 

]Mr.  Hebert.  I  just  want  to  establish  that  the  same  Mary  Price — 
if  it  is  the  same  individual 

Mr.  Stripling.  It  is. 

Mr.  Hebert.  It  is  the  same  individual  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes. 

Mr,  Hebert.  And  INIr.  Lee  knew  Miss  Price  and  failed  to  recognize 
in  her  her  Communist  leanings  and  tendencies. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  have  any  more  questions  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  No. 

The  Chairman.  Thank  you,  Mr.  Lee. 

Mr.  Lee.  Thank  you. 

The  Chairman.  The  next  witness  will  be  who?  Mr.  Robert  T. 
Miller  III,  and  we  will  recess  until  2  o'clock. 

(Whereupon,  at  12 :  05  p.  m.,  the  subcommittee  recessed  until  2  p.  m. 
this  day,  at  which  time  the  subcommittee  merged  into  the  full  com- 
mittee.) 


HEARINGS  REGARDING  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  IN 
THE  UNITED  STATES  GOVERNMENT 


TUESDAY,  AUGUST   10,   1948 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 

Committee  on  Un-American  Activities, 

Washington,  D.  C. 

The  committee  met,  pursuant  to  call,  at  2  p.  m.,  in  the  caucus  room, 
Old  House  Office  Building,  Hon.  J.  Parnell  Thomas  (chairman) 
presiding. 

Committee  members  present :  Representatives  J.  Parnell  Thomas 
(chairman),  Karl  E.  Mundt,  John  McDowell,  Richard  M.  Nixon,  and 
F.  Edward  Hebert. 

Staff  members  present:  Robert  E,  Stripling,  chief  investigator; 
Louis  J.  Russell,  William  A.  Wlieeler,  investigators ;  Benjamin  Mandel, 
director  of  research ;  and  A.  S.  Poore,  editor,  for  the  committee. 

The  Chairman.  The  meeting  will  come  to  order. 

The  record  will  show  that  those  present  are  Mr.  Mundt,  Mr.  Mc- 
Dowell, Mr.  Nixon,  Mr.  Hebert,  and  Mr.  Thomas,  a  quorum  of  the 
full  committee. 

INIr.  Stripling,  the  first  witness. 
'  Mr.  Stripling.  William  Ludwig  Ullmann. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Ullmann,  will  you  take  the  stand.  Raise  your 
right  hand. 

Mr.  Ullmann,  do  you  solemnly  swear  the  testimony  you  are  about 
to  give  will  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth, 
so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  do. 

The  Chairman.  Sit  down. 

The  Chair  would  like  to  announce  that  subpenas  were  served  on 
Mikhail  Samarin  and  ItIs  wife  at  11 :  55  this  morning. 

Proceed,  Mr.  Stripling. 

TESTIMONY  OF  WILLIAM  LUDWIG  ULLMANN 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  you  state  your  full  name,  please. 

Mr.  Ullmann.  William  Ludwig  Ullmann. 
•    Mr.  Stripling.  When  and  where  were  you  born,  Mr.  Ullmann? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  was  born  in  Springfield,  Mo.,  1908.  I  would  like 
to  submit  a  statement,  if  I  may. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Just  a  moment.     Are  you  represented  by  counsel? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  ^Vlio  is  your  counsel  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Mr.  Rein. 

761 


762  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  you  identify  yourself? 

Mr.  Rein.  My  name  is  David  Rein. 

Mr.  Stripling.  And  your  address  in  Washington? 

Mr.  Rein.  1105  K  Street. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  say  you  have  a  statement? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  before  any  action  is  taken  on  the 
statement,  I  would  like  to  ask  the  witness  certain  preliminary  ques- 
tions. 

The  Chairman,  Without  objection  it  is  so  ordered. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Ullmann,  would  j^ou  outline  to  the  committee 
any  Federal  employment  you  have  had. 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes ;  I  came  to  work  for  the  Government  first  in  1935 
in  the  spring.  I  worked  with  the  NRA,  the  National  Recovery  Ad- 
ministration. 

Mr.  Stripling.  The  year  1935  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  did  you  remain  there  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  worked  there  for  only  a  few  months,  until  mid- 
summer, when  the  Supreme  Court  decision  came  out  regarding  NRA. 
Then  I  went  to  work  for  the  Resettlement  Administration. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  did  you  go  with  Resettlement  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  In  either  June  or  July  of  19P>5.  I  stayed  with  the 
Resettlement  Administration  until  February  1939. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  did  you  go  then  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  From  the  Resettlement  Administration  I  trans- 
ferred to  the  Treasury  Department,  where  I  stayed  until  I  resigned 
from  the  Federal  Government  in  1947,  in  March,  with  the  exception 
of  a  period  that  I  was  on  military  leave  and  was  in  the  Army. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  branch  of  the  Treasury  were  you  employed 
in? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  was  employed  in  the  Division  of  Monetary  Re- 
search. 

Mr.  Stripling.  From  whom  did  you  obtain  your  employment? 

Mr.  Ullman.  I  applied  for  a  position  to  Mr.  Harr}^  White. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Harry  Dexter  White? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  recall  who  you  gave  as  references  when  you 
applied  for  that  position? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  don't  recall :  no,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  give  Lauchlin  Currie  as  a  reference  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  don't  recall,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  say  you  took  leave  of  absence  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Military  leave. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Military  leave  of  absence.     When  did  you  take  that  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  In  October  1942  and  it  extended  until  Septembey 
1945. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  branch  of  the  service  were  you  in  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  As  an  enlisted  man  I  was  in  the  Antiaircraft.  As  an 
officer  I  was  in  the  Air  Corps. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  outline  your  military  history? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  was  drafted  in  October  1942,  and  served  as  an 
enlisted  man  until  January  1943,  when  I  went  to  officer  candidate 
school.     I  graduated  from  officer  candidate  school  in  iVpril  1943  with 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  763 

the  commission  of  second  lieutenant.  I  was  assigned  to  Wright  Field, 
Materiel  Command.  Dayton.  Ohio. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Whatwas  your  assignment  at  Wright  Field?  What 
were  your  duties  there? 

Mr.  TjLL^irANN,  I  was  only  there  for  a  f eAv  days  and  then  I  was  trans- 
ferred to  Washington. 

JNIr.  Stripling.  AVliere  were  you  stationed  in  Washington? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  was  stationed  at  the  headquarters  of  the  Air  Corps, 
the  ^Materiel  and  Service  DiAdsion. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  did  a'ou  remain  there  ? 

Mv.  Ullmann.  For  the  duration  of  the  period  I  was  in  the  Army. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  was  your  highest  rank? 

]\Ir.  Ullmann.  Major. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  you  left  the  Army  you  were  a  major? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  were  assigned  to  the  Air  Corps.  Were  you 
stationed  at  the  Pentagon? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  was  stationed  at  the  Pentagon.  That  was  my 
headquarters.     I  traveled  occasionally. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  old  were  you  in  1942  ? 

Mr.  l^LLMANN.  In  1942  I  was  34. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  receive  any  deferments  when  you  were  in 
this  first  employment? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  did. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Who  obtained  tliose  deferments  for  you? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  The  administrative  assistant  to  the  Secretary.  If  I 
recall,  Mr.  Norman  Thompson. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  many  deferments  did  you  receive? 

Mv.  Ullmann.  I  don't  recall  exactly.    I  think  two. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Were  a'ou  married  at  the  time? 

Mr.  Ui'LMANN.  I  was  not. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Are  you  mari-ied  now  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Wlien  vou  resided  in  Washington  where  did  you 
live? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Well,  since  1938  I  lived  at  5515  Thirtieth  Street  NW. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Is  that  the  home  of  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster? 

Mr.  ULLiMANN.  Yes.  I  do. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  have  you  known  Nathan  Gregory  Silver- 
master  ? 

]Mr.  Ullmann.  Oh,  I  have  known  him  since  1935,  as  I  recall. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  he  responsible  for  getting  you  employment 
in  the  Federal  Government  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  No,  he  wasn't.  I  was  in  the  Federal  Government 
before  he  was  here. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  he  ever  assist  you  in  getting  any  position  with 
the  Federal  Government  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Not  that  I  know  of. 

The  Chairman.  Is  your  answer  "No"  or  "Yes"  to  that  question — 
not,  "Not  that  I  laiow  of." 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  would  say  "No." 

The  Chairman.  You  would  say,  "No."    All  right. 


7.64  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  MuNDT,  Mr.  Stripling,  have  you  ascertained  his  present  resi- 
dence ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  No  ;  I  was  going  to  get  to  that. 
.  Would  you  state  your  present  residence? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Harvey  Cedars,  N.  J. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  live  with  Mr.  Silvermaster  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes;  I  do. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Ullmann,  do  you  know  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley? 
•  Mr.  Ullmann.  Well,  for  reasons  stated  in  the  prepared  statement, 
I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  that  it  might  tend  to 
incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  stand  up,  please.  Do  you  recognize 
this  woman  standing  here  as  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  refuse  to  state  whether  you  ever  saw  her  before  ? 

Mr.  Hebert.  Mr.  Stripling,  he  said  he  just  refused  to  answer  the 
question.    On  what  ground  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  He  just  refused  to  answer. 

Mr.  Ullmann.  On  the  ground  that  it  might  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Ullmann,  are  you  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  For  the  same  reason 

Mr.  Stripling.  State  your  reason. 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  mean  you  were  a  major  in  the  Army  attached 
to  the  Air  Corps  and  you  refuse  to  state  whether  or  not  you  are  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  have  refused. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Were  you  ever  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party 
at  any  time  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  ground. 

The  Chairman.  State  the  ground,  please,  in  each  case. 

Mr.  Ullmann.  On  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Striplinq.  Did  you  know  Jacob  N.  Golos  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  Mr.  Golos  ever  give  you  a  camera  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

The  Chairman.  What  was  the  last  question  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  asked  if  Mr.  Golos  ever  gave  him  a  camera. 

The  Chairman.  How  would  that  incriminate  you,  the  fact  that  you 
were  getting  a  camera  ?    How  would  that  incriminate  you  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Did  anybody  give  you  a  camera  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  assist  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster  in  pho- 
tographing (Tovernment  documents  in  the  basement  of  his  home  at 
5515  Thirtieth  Street? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  That  point  is  covered  in  the  statement  I  prepared. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  you  answer  the  question  ? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  765 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  did  not  assist  in  taking  any  pictures  of  Govennnent 
documents. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  did  not  assist  in  taking  pictures  of  any  Govern- 
ment documents  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  the  basement  of  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster's 
home  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  exQr  furnish  any  documents  to  Nathan 
Gregory  Silvermaster? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Did  I  ever  furnish  any  documents  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Any  documents  to  Nathan  Gregory  Silvermaster. 

Mr.  Ullmann.  No. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  furnish  any  information  to  Nathan 
Gregory  Silvermaster  obtained  in  your  official  capacity  in  the  Army? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  No. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Are  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  3^011  ever  furnish  any  information  to  Elizabeth 
T.  Bentley? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  No. 

The  Chairman.  I  would  like  to  ask  one  question.  In  this  statement, 
you  call  Miss  Bentley  a  liar,  I  believe.    How  do  you  know  Miss  Bentley  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Just  by  the  statements  tliat  have  been  made  before 
this  committee. 

The  Chairman.  Is  that  the  person  who  made  the  statement  before 
this  committee  that  you  saw  a  few  seconds  ago  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  JNIcDowELL.  On  Avhat  ground? 

Mv.  Ullmann.  On  the  ground  that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

The  Chairman.  But  you  do  say  that  Miss  Bentley  is  a  liar.  How 
do  you  come  to  that  conclusion  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  have  read  the  newspapers. 

The  Chairman.  And  you  saw  Miss  Bentley's  pictures  in  the  news- 
paper too,  didn't  you  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  That  is  true  ? 

Mv.  Ullmann.  Yes. 

The  Chairman.  All  right.  If  you  saw  Miss  Bentley's  pictures  in 
the  newspapers,  is  that  the  person  whose  pictures  were  in  the  news- 
papers ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  As  far  as  I  can  tell  from  newspaper  pictures,  that 
is  the  person  whose  picture  was  in  the  newspapers. 

The  Chairman.  Proceed. 

Mr.  Nixon.  INIr.  Ullmann,  in  answer  to  Mr.  Stripling's  last  ques- 
tion you  said,  "No."  The  question  was:  Did  you  ever  furnish  any 
Government  documents  to  Miss  Bentley  ?    You  answered  "No." 

Obviously,  that  means  that  you  know  Miss  Bentley.    Is  that  true  ? 

Mr,  Ullmann,  No  ;  I  don't  follow  the  reasoning. 


766  '  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr,  Nixon.  You  gave  a  categorical  answer  "No"  to  his  question  as 
to  whether  or  not  you  had  furnished  any  Government  documents  to 
Miss  Bentley.    You  said,  "No." 

Well,  in  order  to  give  the  answer  "No"  or  "Yes"  to  that  question,  you 
would  obviously  have  to  know  Miss  Bentley.    Is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  No. 

(Mr.  Ullmann  conferred  with  Mr.  Rein.) 

Mr.  Nixojsr.  Did  j'ou  give  any  Government  documents  to  Miss 
Bentley  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  replied. 

Mr,  Nixon.  What  is  the  answer? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  No. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  know  Miss  Bentley  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground 

Mr.  Nixon.  How  w^oulcl  you  know  whether  or  not  you  have  ever 
given  any  Government  documents  to  Miss  Bentley  unless  you  knew 
her? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Because  I  haven't  given  Government  documents  to 
any  unauthorized  person. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Your  answer  to  the  question  is  that  you  haven't  given 
Government  documents  to  any  person;  is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  know^  you  haven't  given  any  Government  docu- 
ments to  Miss  Bentley  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  McDowell.  The  witness  answered  Mr.  Stripling's  question: 
Did  you  ever  assist  Mr.  Silvermaster  in  photographing  Government 
documents?    Your  answer  was  "No."    Is  that  correct ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Did  you  ever  photograph  any  Government  docu- 
ments yourself,  not  assisting  anyone  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  did  not. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Miss  Bentley,  will  you  rise  and  stand  where  the  witness 
can  see  you  ? 

Will  you  rise,  Mr.  Ullmann  ?  You  see  a  lady  standing  there,  don't 
you  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  know  her  by  sight  right  now.  You  are  looking 
at  her.    Did  you  ever  give  that  lady  there  any  Government  documents  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  did  not. 

The  Chairman.  All  right,  Mr.  Stripling,  proceed. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Ulhnann,  did  you  ever  furnish  Bela,  or  other- 
wise  known  as  William,  Gold  a  camera? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground 
that  it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Was  it  a  Leica,  L-e-i-c-a,  camera? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  many  cameras  did  you  have  while  you  were 
in  the  Army  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  767 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  loan  or  permit  Nathan  Gregory  Silver- 
master  to  use  one  of  your  cameras  for  the  purpose  of  photographing 
Government  documents '? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Steipling.  AVhen  you  obtained  a  commission  in  the  Army,  who 
did  you  give  as  3'our  references? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  don't  recall,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Lauchlin  Currie  of  the  White  House  ? 

]\Ir.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  STRiPLiN(i.  Do  you  know  Mr.  Irving  S.  Friedman,  United 
States  Treasury  Department  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  cjuestion  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

jSIr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  JNIr.  A.  G.  Silverman.  United  States 
Army  Air  Forces  Materiel  Command,  Munitions  Building? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mv.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  the  names  that  I  have  mentioned, 
according  to  the  Army  records,  were  given  by  Mr.  Ullmanu,  as 
references. 

The  Chairman.  What  was  that,  Mr.  Stripling? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Those  individuals  were  given  by  him  as  references 
and  they  recommended  him  for  receiving  a  commission  in  the  Army. 

The  Chairman.  Did  you  get  that  from  the  official  records? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes. 

Mr.  Ullmann,  you  executed  Form  57  on  April  4,  1046.  On  that 
form  you  gave  as  your  references  Lauchlin  Currie,  International  De- 
velopment Co.,  19  Rector  Street,  New  York  Cit}'.     Is  that  correct? 

iVIr.  Ullmann.  I  don't  recall. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  also  gave  Miss  Henrietta  Klotz,  2.85  Madison 
Avenue,  New  York  City,  assistant  to  ex-Secretary  of  the  Treasury 
Morgenthau.     Is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  don't  recall. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  also  gave  Mr.  Harry  W.  Blair,  Tower  Build- 
ing, Washington,  D.  C.     Is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  don't  recall  that. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  don't  recall  whom  you  gave  as  references  in 
1946  on  a  Form  57? 

]Mr.  Ullmann.  I  don't. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  set  up  or  place  in  operation  any  pho- 
tographic equipment  in  the  basement  at  the  premises  located  at  5515 
Thirtieth  Street  NW.,  in  Washington,  D.  C.  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  ask  that  the  witness  be  permitted 
to  read  his  statement  at  this  point. 

The  Chairman.  All  right.  Without  objection,  it  is  so  ordered. 
Go  ahead,  Mr.  Witness,  and  read  your  statement. 

Mr.  Ullmann.  My  name  is  William  Ludwig  Ullmann.  I  was  born 
in  Springfield,  Mo.,  in  1908.    I  was  educated  at  Philips  Exeter  Acad- 


768  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

emy,  at  Harvard  College,  and  at  Drury  College.  I  received  a  degree 
of  bachelor  of  arts  from  Drury  College  in  1930.  I  received  a  degree 
of  master  of  business  administration  from  Harvard  University  in 
1932. 

From  1932  to  1934,  I  worked  in  my  father's  real  estate  office  in 
Springfield,  Mo.,  and  also  organized  a  wholesale  tennis-supply  busi- 
ness in  the  same  town.  In  the  fall  of  1934  I  went  to  work  for  R.  H. 
Macy  &  Co.  in  New  York.  I  came  to  Washington  in  April  of  1935  to 
work  for  the  NKA.  I  later  worked  for  the  Resettlement  Adminis- 
tration, and  in  February  1939  I  transferred  to  the  Division  ,of  Mone- 
tary Research  in  the  Treasury  Department.  I  worked  there  until 
1947,  with  the  exception  of  the  period  from  October  1942  to  Septem- 
ber 1945,  when  I  was  on  military  leave.  I  went  to  officer  candidate 
school  and  was  commissioned  in  April  1943.  I  held  the  rank  of  major 
when  I  left  the  service. 

The  scurrilous  charges  made  against  me  by  Miss  Bentley  bef.ore 
this  committee  are  false.  I  state  categorically  that  she  is  a  liar.  I 
am  and  always  have  been  a  loyal  American  citizen.  I  never  have  be- 
trayed any  confidence  reposed  in  me  by  my  Government.  I  am  not 
and  never  have  been  a  spy  or  an  agent  of  a  foreign  government.  I  have 
never  photographed  any  Government  documents. 

In  view  of  the  fact  that  the  charges  against  me  are  under  investiga- 
tion before  a  grand  jury,  and  since  this  committee  is  ixot,  m  my  opin- 
ion, a  tribunal  before  which  a  citizen  may  adequately  defend  himself, 
I  shall,  on  advice  of  counsel,  refuse  to  answer  any  questions  relating 
to  charges  against  me  under  the  constitutional  right  against  self- 
incrimination  guaranteed  by  the  fifth  amendment. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Ullmann,  while  you  were  in  the  Air  Corps  did 
you  have  access  to  any  information  regarding  the  B-29  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Stripling.  That  is  all  the  questions  I  have  at  this  time. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Nixon. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Ullmann,  you  say  the  charges  Miss  Bentley  made 
are  false. 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  One  of  the  charges  she  made  was  that  you  gave  her 
secret  Government  documents.  You  say  tliat  charge  is  false;  is  that 
correct  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Another  charge  she  made  was  that  you  photographed 
Government  documents.     Is  that  charge  false? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Another  charge  she  made  was  that  you  helped  set  up 
a  ])hotographic  laboratory  in  Mr.  Silvermaster's  home.  Is  that  charge 
false? 

INIr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Ullmann,  you  realize  that  by  giving  answers  to 
the  first  two  questions,  which  you  have  categorically  stated  those 
charges  are  false,  and  by  refusing  to  answer  the  third  question,  you 
have  left  an  implication  which  is  pretty  clear  that  you  cannot  give 
the  answer  "No"  to  the  third  question  and  not  incriminate  yourself. 
You  recognize  that;  do  you? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  769 

Mr.  Ullmanx.  No,  I  don't  recognize  that. 

]Mr.  Nixon.  You  recognize,  in  other  words,  that  you  can  waive 
the  right  of  self-incrimination  by  going  into  the  subject  at  hand. 

Mr.  Ullmann.  By  going  into  what^ 

Mr.  Nixon.  By  going  into  the  charges  that  are  made.  You  have 
made  the  categorical  statement  that  all  charges  are  false.  I  have 
been  questioning  3^011  about  some  of  those  charges.  Some  of  those 
charges — you  willingly  gave  the  answer  "No"  to  some  of  the  charges 
made.  On  other  charges  you  say,  "I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  ground 
that  the  answer  I  might  give  might  be  self-incriminatory."  That 
obviously  casts  an  implication  upon  your  statement  that  all  these 
charges  are  false.  Do  you  still  maintain  that  all  these  charges  are 
false  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  do;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  In  other  words.  Miss  Bentley's  charge  is  false  that  you 
helped  set  up  a  photogiaphic  laboratory  in  Mr.  Silvermaster's  base- 
ment ;  is  that  true  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  That  statement  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  ground 
that  it  might  be  self -incriminating. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Miss  Bentley's  charge  is  false  that  you  gave  her  confi- 
dential information;  is  that  true? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Miss  Bentley's  charge  is  false  that  you  helped  photo- 
graph Government  documents? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Her  charge  is  false  that  you  orally  gave  her  informa- 
tion on  Government  business;  is  that  true? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  have  never  talked  to  Miss  Bentley ;  is  that  true? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  never  discussed  any  Government  business  with 
Miss  Bentley;  is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  That  is  a  broad  term — any  Government  business. 
Is  that  your  question,  sir? 

Mr.  Nixon.  Did  you  ever  discuss  your  work  with  Miss  Bentley 
at  all? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self -incriminating. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  are  with  Mr.  Silvermaster  at  the  present  time  in 
New  Jersey  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  lived  with  him  in  Washington  previous  to  that 
time ;  is  that  correct  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

IMr.  Nixon.  In  the  basement  of  that  home  in  Washington  was  a 
photographic  laboratory;  is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Nixon.  That  is  all  at  this  time. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  McDowell  ? 

Mr.  McDoW'ELL.  Did  you  ever  see  Miss  Bentley  at  the  Silvermaster 
home  ? 

80408 — 48 18 


770  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Were  you  ever  in  the  basement  of  the  house,  of 
the  Silvermaster  home,  with  Miss  Bentley  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self -incriminating. 

Mr.  McDowell.  Mr.  Ullmann,  do  you  have  any  knowledge  of  the 
technique  of  photography  at  all? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self -incriminating. 

Mr.  McDoAVELL.  Mr.  Ullmann,  can  you  play  tennis  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground 
that [Laughter]. 

Mr.  McDowell.  That  is  all,  JNIr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Mundt. 

jVIr.  ]\IuNDT.  In  your  statement,  Mr.  Ullmann,  j-ou  state  that  you  are 
now  and,  I  believe,  alwa^^s  have  been — "I  am  and  always  have  been  a 
loyal  American  citizen."  Do  you  believe  a  man  can  be  a  loyal  Ameri- 
can citizen  and  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  at  one  and  the  same 
time? 

]Mr.  Ullmann.  That  is  a  question  I  haven't  considered,  Mr.  Mundt. 

Mr.  Ml'ndt.  Consider  it  now  and  give  me  an  answer. 

(The  witness  conferred  with  his  attorney.) 

Mr.  NixoN.  Let  the  record  show,  when  the  witness  consults  with 
counsel,  that  he  ie  consulting  with  counsel. 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  just  don't  feel  competent  to  give  an  answer  to  the 
question. 

Mr.  JNIiNDT.  Even  after  consulting  with  your  very  competent  coun- 
*sel? 

Mr.  ITllmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Mundt.  In  other  words,  as  a  retired  major  of  the  United  States 
Army,  a  man  who  has  been  entrusted  with  a  lot  of  high  governmental 
responsibilities,  as  a  mature  citizen  and  a  graduate  of  two  colleges, 
you  don't  consider  yourself  competent  to  declare  whether  or  not  a  man 
can  be  a  loyal  American  citizen  and  a  member  of  the  Communist 
Party  at  one  and  the  same  time? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  That  is  correct,  sir. 

Mr.  Mundt.  How  long  did  you  live  in  the  Silvermaster  home  while 
vou  were  in  Washington? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Ten  years,  approximately. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Ten  years.  During  the  course  of  those  10  years,  were 
you  ever  in  the  basement  of  the  Silvermaster  home  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  of 
possible  self-incrimination. 

Mr.  Mundt.  What  was  there  so  mysterious  and  incriminating  about 
the  basement  of  the  Silvermaster  home  that  you  dare  not  admit  that 
in  the  course  of  10  years  you  ever  once  entered  the  basement? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Tliat  is  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chaii;man.  Mr.  Hebert. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  771 

Mr.  Hebekt.  Mr.  Ullniann,  in  your  prepared  statement,  which  you 
read,  you  say : 

In  view  of  the  fact  that  the  charges  against  me  are  under  investigation  before 
a  grand  jury — 

by  that  you  don't  mean  to  imply  that  you  ha\e  been  given  a  no  true 
bill  by  the  New  York  grand  jury  before  whom  you  a})peared? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  No  true  bill '. 

Mr.  Hebekt.  I  mer*?it  by  that  statement  you  do  not  mean  to  imply 
that  you  have  been  investigated  and  absolved  of  any  wrongdoing? 

Mr.  Ullmanx.  I  don't  mean  to  imply  that ;  no  sir. 

Mr.  Hebekt.  Because,  as  a  matter  of  fact,  the  New  York  grand 
jury  is  only  in  recess,  as  I  understand  it,  and  at  any  time  can  return  a 
true  bill  against  you  for  violation  of  the  Federal  espionage  laws. 
Is  that  correct  ? 

^Ir.  Ullmann.  I  gather  it  is;  yes,  sir.  The  statement  says  "are 
under  investigation." 

]\Ir.  Hebekt.  It  is  an  open  cas'e  right  now ;  it  is  not  a  closed  case. 
That  is  what  I  am  trying  to  get  at. 

Mr.  Uli,maxx.  As  far  as  I  know,  it  is  still  an  open  case. 

Mr.  Hebekt.  It  is  still  an  open  case  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes. 

]\Ir.  Hebekt.  And  the  mere  fact  that  you  have  appeared  before  them 
does  not  indicate  that  up  to  this  time  they  have  cleared  you  or  given 
3'ou  a  clean  bill  of  health  ? 

]\ir.  Ullmann,  That  is  my  impression. 

Mr.  Hebekt.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  it  is  true  ? 

Mr,  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebekt.  Wh}'  is  it  that  you  will  answer  some  questions  and 
refuse  to  answer  others,  standing  on  your  constitutional  right  of  self- 
incrimination  % 

Mr,  Ullmann.  Well,  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground 
of  self-incrimination. 

Mr.  Hebekt.  You  refuse  to  answer  it  on  the  ground  of  self-incrim- 
ination i' 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir, 

Mr.  Hebekt.  I  ask  you,  as  a  man  who  has  given  his  educational 
background,  as  a  former  Army  officer,  a  major  in  the  Army — and  I 
think  you  are  perfectly  competent  to  answer  this  question,  because  it 
is  an  opinion,  and  I  ask  your  opinion — do  you  think  that  any  individual 
can  belong  to  a  group  or  an  organization  dedicated  to  overthrow  the 
American  Government  by  force  and  violence  and  at  the  same  time  be 
a  loyal  American  citizen  \ 

Mr.  Ullmann.  No,  sir ;  I  don't. 

Mr.  Hebekt.  You  do  not? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Hebekt.  Therefore,  if  the  Communist  Party  is  an  organization 
dedicated  to  the  overthrow  of  the  American  Government  by  force  and 
violence,  you  could  not  be  a  member  of  that  party  and  be  a  loyal 
American  at  the  same  time? 

JMr.  Ullmann.  That  is  correct, 

Mr.  Hebekt.  You  have  said  in  your  statement  that  you  always  have 
been  a  loyal  American. 


772  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  have. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Then,  have  you  ever  been  a  member  of  the  Commvmist 
Party? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Suppose  you  justify  that  answer  in  your  own  words. 
I  have  put  the  basis  for  the  question.  You  have  answered  it.  Now, 
you  answer  me.  You  say  you  are  a  loyal  American  citizen.  There- 
fore, if  you  are  a  loyal  American  citizen,  and  I  presume  you  are  a  sane 
and  rational  man— therefore,  if  you  are  a  loyal  American  citizen,  you 
could  not  have  been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  at  the  same 
time.    Now,  were  you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  i 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Are  you  a  loyal  American  citizen? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes;  I  am. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Why  don't  you  stand  o]i  your  constitutional  rights 
there  and  say  that  might  be  self -incriminating? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Is  that  an  official  question? 

Mr.  Hebert.  Why,  certainly  it  is  an  official  question.  I  am  trying 
to  probe  your  mental  thoughts  at  this  time,  if  possible. 

Mr.  I^llmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  refuse  to  say  why  you  defend  your  American  cit- 
izenship on  the  ground  that  it  might  incriminate  you? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  You  realize,  Mr.  Ullmann,  that  you  are  absolutely 
within  your  rights  to  stand  upon  that  answer? 

]Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  As  you  have  done.  You  realize  also  that  you  are  sub- 
ject to  the  laws  of  perjury  if  you  lie  at  this  time  ? 

Mr,  Ullm\nn.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Hebert.  For  the  purpose  of  establishing  the  veracity  of  the 
witness,  Mr.  Chairman,  I  again  ask  Miss  Bentley  to  rise. 

Miss  Bentley. 

(Miss  Bentley  rises.) 

Mr.  Hebert.  Mr.  Ullmann,  I  again  ask  you  to  rise. 

(Mr.  Ullmann  rises.) 

Mr.  Hebert.  This  lady  standing  there — have  you  ever  known  her, 
talked  to  her,  had  any  conversation  with  her,  discussed  any  matters 
with  her  relating  to  your  Government  employment,  discussed  any 
matters  of  the  Soviet  Union  and  its  relationship  to  America ;  have  you 
had  any  relationship  with  her  under  the  name  of  Elizabeth  T.  Bent- 
ley, under  the  name  of  Helen  Grant,  under  the  name  of  Helen  John- 
son, or  under  the  simple  name  of  Helen? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

Mr.  Hebert.  Now,  remain  standing.  Miss  Bentley,  please. 

I  want  to  establish  this : 

Have  you  ever  given  to  that  lady,  in  regard  to  whom  you  just  re- 
fused to  answer  the  previous  question  on  grounds  of  possible  self-in- 
crimination— have  you  ever  handed  into  that  lady's  hands  any  pack- 
ages, any  documents  of  an  official  nature  of  the  Government  for  trans- 
mittal to  other  people? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  have  not. 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  773 

Mr.  HUBERT.  You  have  not. 

Have  you  ever  paid  to  that  lady  standing  there  any  dues  of  the 
Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  of 
possible  self-incrimination. 

Mr.  Hebert.  The  record  speaks  for  itself,  Mr.  Chairman.  That  is 
all. 

The  Chairman.  I  would  like  to  ask  a  couple  of  questions. 

Mr.  Ullmann,  you  were  interrogated  by  agents  of  the  FBI,  were  you 
not  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Didn't  you  tell  the  FBI  that  you  had  been  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

]\Ir.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

The  Chairman.  Well,  we  really  don't  have  to  have  the  answer  to 
that  question  because  the  record  may  speak  for  itself.  But  didn't  you 
tell  the  FBI  that  you  had  been  a  member  of  the  Communist  JParty? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question,  ]\Ir.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  Didn't  you  tell  the  FBI  agents  that  you  did  have 
photographic  equipment  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

The  Chairman.  Supposing  I  said  that  the  FBI  had  told  me  that 
you  had  photographic  equipment.    What  would  you  say  to  that  ? 

Just  a  moment,  Mr.  Counsel.  Let  the  witness  answer.  Go  ahead, 
Mr.  Witness. 

Mr.  Ullmann.  There  is  nothing  to  say  to  that.  If  they  told  you, 
they  told  you. 

The  Chairman.  Would  you  say  they  told  me  the  truth  or  not  the 
truth  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

The  Chairman.  Did  the  FBI  ask  you  whether  or  not  you  had  been 
in  the  basement  of  the  Silvermaster  house  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self-incriminating. 

The  Chairman.  In  your  statement  you  claim  you  are  a  very  loyal 
American.  In  fact,  you  use  the  words  "loyal  American  citizen."  Don't 
you  think  that  a  loyal  American  citizen  would  be  very  willing  to  an- 
swer the  question:  Are  you  a  member  of  the  Connnunist  Party? 

Let's  look  at  it  aside  from  the  legal  standpoint ;  let's  look  at  it  from 
the  common-sense  standpoint.  You  were  a  major  in  the  Army  and 
fought  for  your  country  and  here  you  are  being  asked  whether  or  not 
you  are  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party.  Don't  3^ou  think  as  a 
loyal  American  citizen  that  it  is  your  duty  to  answer  that  question  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Mr.  Chairman,  my  statement  has  given  the  grounds 
on  which  I  am  standing  on  my  constitutional  rights  on  these  questions. 

The  Chairman.  I  just  do  not  see  how  the  question — I  might  see 
how  the  question  of  constitutional  right  bears  on  this  question  of  com- 
munism, but  on  the  question  of  whether  or  not  you  possessed  a  camera, 
or  whether  or  not  you  were  in  the  basement  of  Mr.  Silvermaster's  home, 
I  just  do  not  see  how  you  can  bring  in  that  constitutional  question 
there,  because  I  don't  see  how  it  would  incriminate  you. 


774  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

In  what  way  would  it  incriminate  you  ? 

Siipposins  we  ask  you  :  Have  you  ever  been  in  tlie  basement  of  this 
building:?    Would  that  incriminate  you? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  It  might,  sir. 

The  Chairmaist.  Suppose  we  asked  you :  Have  you  ever  been  in  the 
basement  of  your  own  home?     "Would  that  incriminate  you? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  It  might. 

The  Chairman.  It  might.  That  is  just  the  reason  why  you  won't 
answer  the  question  in  regard  to  the  Silvermaster  home  because  you 
know  what  was  done  in  the  basement  of  that  house.  There  was  photo- 
graphic equipment  down  there,  and  you  know  it  better  than  anyone 
else  in  this  room,  and  that  is  why  you  don't  answer  the  question. 

Mr.  McDowell.  How  long  have  you  lived  with  Mr.  Silvennaster  in 
New  Jersey  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Since  May  of  1947. 

Mr.  McDowell.  That  is  a  little  over  a  year, 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Are  you  two  fellows  maintaining  any  photographic 
equipment  in  the  basement  there,  too? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  ground  that 
it  might  tend  to  be  self -incriminating. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  have  a  Reserve  commission  as  a  major  in 
the  Army? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir ;  I  do. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  still  have  it? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  But  you  won't  answer  as  to  whether  or  not  you  are 
a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr,  Ullmann.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Ullmann,  as  a  loyal  American  citizen,  j^ou,  of 
course,  believe  H  is  essential  that  we  do  everything  we  can  to  protect 
the  security  of  the  country  from  espionage  activities,  do  you  not  ? 

Mr.  Ullimann.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You,  of  course,  have  read  in  the  newspapers  the  charges 
Miss  Bentle}^  made,  have  you  not  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes,  sir, 

Mr.  Nixon.  If  those  charges  are  true  in  regard  to  espionage  activi- 
ties, they  would  constitute  a  considerable  clanger  to  the  country,  would 
they  not?  If  they  are  true.  You  said  they  are  false,  I  unclerstand. 
But  I  am  asking  you  that,  assuming  what  she  said  was  true,  it  would 
constitute  a  danger  to  this  country,  would  it  not? 

Mr.  Ullmann,  Yes,  sir, 

Mr.  Nixon.  So,  a  conunittee  of  Congress,  the  courts,  all  the  agencies 
that  have  to  do  with  the  protection  and  securitj^  of  this  country,  should 
do  everything  they  coulcl  to  establish  whether  or  not  those  charges  are 
true  or  false.     You  understand  that,  can  j-ou  not? 

Mr.  Ullman.  The  courts;  yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  In  other  words,  you  believe  we  should  attempt  to  estab- 
lish— that  it  should  be  estr.blished  whether  those  charges  are  true  or 
false  by  some  agency  of  the  Government? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  By  some  agency. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Now,  having  in  mind  the  fact  then  that  it  is  necessary 
for  the  security  of  the  country  that  the  truth  of  those  charges,  all  of 
them,  be  established,  or  the  falsity  of  those  charges,  I  point  to  your 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  775 

istatement  in  which  3^011  have  stated,  in  attempting  to  help  this  com- 
mittee in  findincr  the  truth  or  falsity  of  those  charges,  you  state  cate- 
gorically :  "The  charges  made  by  Miss  Bentley  are  false." 

Xo^y,  so  that  we  can  have  the  record  clear,  will  you  please  take  up 
each  indiA'idual  charge  that  you  are  referring  to  when  you  say  that 
the  charges  made  by  Miss  Bentley  are  false.  Which  charges  did  she 
make  that  are  false? 

Mr.  Ullmaxn.  That  is  in  my  statement. 

Mr.  Nixon.  No;  in  your  statement  you  say:  "The  charges  made  by 
Miss  Bentley  are  false." 

Mr.  Ullmann".  The  charges  made  against  me  are  false. 

Mr.  Nixox.  The  statements  made  by  INIiss  Bentley  against  you  per- 
sonally are  false? 

Mr.  Ullmanx.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  mean  all  the  charges  made  by  Miss  Bentley  against 
3'ou  are  false  ?    Is  that  correct  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Including  the  charge  that  you  are  a  member  of  the 
Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Ullmaxx.  I  had  not  recognized  that  as  a  charge. 

Mr.  Nixox.  I  see.  Then  you  do  not  say  that  the  charge  made  by 
Miss  Bentle3'  that  you  were  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  is 
false? 

Mr.  Ullmax^n.  I  don't  say  that  in  this  statement. 

Mr.  NixoN.  You  don't  mean  to  say  that  in  this  statement.  All  right. 
You  have  said  that  as  far  as  this  statement  is  concerned — I  think  it  is 
essential  then  that  you  should  point  out  to  the  committee  what  charges 
made  by  Miss  Bentley  you  say  are  false. 

Mr.  Ullmaxx.  That  is  written  into  the  statement. 

Mr.  Nixon.  The  statement  speaks  for  itself.  You  just  say  in  the 
statement  that  all  the  charges  are  false. 

Mr.  Ullmax'X^  I  say  that  I  never  betrayed  any  confidence  reposed  in 
me  by  my  Government,  that  I  am  not  and  never  have  been  a  spy  or 
an  agent  of  a  foreign  government,  I  have  never  photographed  any 
Government  documents. 

Mr.  Nixox.  Then  the  only  charges  made  by  Miss  Bentley  that  you 
by  this  statement  are  saying  are  false  are  those  that  you  have  photo- 
graphed Government  documents  and  that  you  have  been  a  spy  and  that 
you  have  been  disloyal.    Those  are  the  charges  that  you  say  "are  false? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  say  those  are  false;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  NixoN.  By  the  same  token,  you  are  not  saying  in  this  state- 
ment that  the  other  "charges  made  by  Miss  Bentley  are  false;  is  that 
correct  ? 

Mr.  Ullmax^n.  I  am  not  sure  I  have  heard  the  other  charges. 

Mr.  Nixox.  You  have  already  indicated  that  you  did  not  mean  by 
this  statement  that  Miss  Bentley's  charge  that  you  were  a  member  of 
the  Communist  Party  was  false.  The  record  will  speak  for  itself  on 
that  one. 

Now.  one  of  the  other  charges  made  by  Miss  Bentlev  was  that  you 
lielped  to  set  up  some  photographic  equipment  in  the  Silvermaster 
home.    Do  you  mean  by  your  statement  that  that  charge  is  false? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Will  you  repeat  that  statement — that  I  helped  to  set 
up  photographic  equipment  ? 


776  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Nixon.  I  want  you  to  understand  the  question  exactly,  Mr. 
Ullmann,  because  it  is  very  important  to  you,  as  well  as  to  the 
committee. 

You  stated  in  your  statement  that  all  these  charges  were  false  that 
Miss  Bentley  made  about  you.  Now,  we  have  gone  into  some  of  the 
charges  and  you  have  indicated  what  you  thought  about  some  of  them. 
Now,  one  of  the  charges  made,  and  one  of  the  serious  charges  made, 
by  Miss  Bentley  that  was  carried  in  the  newspapers — and  I  am  sure  that 
if  you  read  the  newspapers,  you  read  this  one — was  that  you  helped 
to  set  up  photographic  equipment  in  the  basement  of  the  Silvermaster 
home  in  Washington. 

Do  you  mean  by  this  statement  that  that  charge  is  false? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  1  have  not  recognized  that  as  a  charge. 

Mr.  Nixon.  In  other  words,  by  your  statement  you  are  not  indicating 
that  that  charge  is  false  ? 

Mr,  Ullmann.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  Nixon.  That  is  all. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  am  interested.  Mr.  Ullmann,  you  did  not  consider 
the  statement  by  Miss  Bentley  that  you  are  a  member  of  the  Com- 
munist Party  as  a  charge.    You  didn't  consider  that  a  charge. 

Mr.  Ullmann.  That  is  correct. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Why  don't  you  consider  that  a  charge?  Don't  you 
feel  it  is  a  charge  against  a  man's  loyalty  to  be  labeled  as  a  Com- 
munist ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  had  not  recognized  that  membership  in  the  Com- 
munist Party  has  as  yet  been  considered  an  unlawful  act. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Do  you  realize  that  under  the  decision  of  the  judiciary 
in  the  State  of  New  York  that  it  is  considered  libelous  per  se  to  charge 
a  man  as  being  a  Communist  unless  it  can  be  substantiated? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  didn't  know  of  that  decision. 

Mr.  IMuNDT.  That  is  a  decision.  Knowing  that  decision,  then,  do  you 
not  consider  it  a  charge  to  be  labeled  as  a  Communist  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Well,  if  that  is  the  decision 

(Witness  confers  with  counsel.) 

Mr,  MuNDT.  I  am  sure  his  counsel  is  familiar  with  the  decision  and 
I  hope  he  advises  him  properly. 

(Witness  again  confers  with  counsel.) 

The  Chairman.  The  Chair  would  like  to  say  to  those  in  the  cham- 
bers that  this  is  a  congressional  committee  sitting  on  a  very  important 
matter,  that  those  of  you  in  the  audience  are  the  guests  of  the  com- 
mittee, and  the  committee  would  appreciate  just  as  little  applause  as 
possible.  In  fact,  if  you  can  get  along  without  any  applause  at  all  for 
one  side  or  the  other,  we  would  api^reciate  it  because  we  have  got  a  long 
way  to  go  and  can't  possibly  finish  these  hearings  this  week,  and  we 
just  have  to  rush  things  along  as  best  we  can.  We  must  have  order. 
Proceed. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Are  you  ready  to  answer  the  question  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  That  decision  of  the  court  I  gather  still  does  not  make 
it  a  criminal  offense  to  be  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party,  and  in 
this  statement  I  am  referring  to  cliarges  as  criminal  offenses. 

]\Ir.  INIuNDT.  It  does  make  it  libelous,  per  se,  to  call  a  man  a  Com- 
munist, if  he  is  not  a  Communist.  INIiss  Bentley  called  you  a  Com- 
munist.    That  is  a  charge  according  to  legal  interpretation. 

Now,  do  you  intend  to  include  that  charge  in  your  statement  as  false? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  777 

Mr.  Ullmanx.  I  state  here  that  I  am  including  in  my  statement 
charges  of  criminal  activities. 

JVIr.  MuNDT.  Yon  would  not  consider  membership  in  the  Communist 
Party  in  that  category  ^    . 

JNIr.  Ullmanx.  Would  not  consider  it  what? 

INIr.  INIuNDT.  The  charge  of  communism  in  that  category. 

Mr.  Ullmann.  That  is  right. 

]\f r.  MuNDT.  As  a  Reserve  officer  you  must  know  and  associate  with 
several  other  officers  in  the  Army,  is  that  correct  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Not  recently. 

Mr.  ]\IuNDT.  Have  you  any  friends  who  are  Reserve  officers  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  have  some;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  jMundt.  Among  your  circle  of  friends  who  are  Reserve  officers, 
is  it  considered  unwise  to  state  that  they  are  not  members  of  the 
Communist  Party ? 

]Mr.  Ullmann."^  Well 

Mr.  JMundt.  Is  that  the  general  attitude  of  your  friends  who  are 
generally  Reserve  officers? 

JNIr.  Ullmann.  Unwise  ?    Will  you  repeat  that  ?    I  am  sorry. 

]\Ir.  JMundt.  Yes.  In  your  particular  group  of  associates  who  are 
members  of  the  Reserve,  do  they  consider  it  unwise  to  declare  that 
tliey  are  not  members  of  the  Communist  Party  when  asked? 

JMr.  Ullmann.  No. 

Mr.  JMundt.  You  are  rather  an  exception  to  that  rule,  then,  is  that 
right? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  guess  I  am  an  exception  to  that  rule. 

Mr.  MuNDT,  How  do  you  explain  it  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  In  these  particular  circumstances 

Mr.  MuNDT.  How  do  you  explain  that  you  are  an  exception  to  that 
rule  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Well,  as  far  as  I  know 

JMr.  JMundt.  What  is  there  in  your  background  that  makes  you  such 
an  exception  to  that  rule  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  Well,  as  far  as  I  know,  it  happens  to  be  circum- 
stances at  present. 

Mr.  JMundt.  What  circumstances? 

JMr.  Ullmann.  These  circumstances. 

Mr.  Mundt.  The  circumstances  would  be  much  less  incriminatory 
if  you  could  testify  under  oath  whether  or  not  you  were  not  now  and 
had  never  been  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party.  You  realize  that, 
do  you  not  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  That  is  your  interiDi-etation,  I  gather. 

Mr.  Mundt.  That  is  my  question.    What  is  your  answer? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  No  ;  I  cannot  see  it 

Mr.  JMundt.  Do  you  still  seem  to  think  that  there  is  something  about 
membership  in  the  Communist  Party  which  is  credible  and  desirable 
and  commendable  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  do  not  recall  stating  anything  to  that  effect. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Well,  the  implication  is  to  that  effect. 

Mr.  UrxMANN.  That  is  the  implication. 

Mr.  JMundt.  Very  well.    That  is  all,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman,  Are  there  any  other  members  who  have  any  ques- 
tions ? 

Mr.  Stripling. 


778  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  No  questions. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Ullniann,  you  indicated  a  moment  ago  that  member- 
ship in  the  Communist  Party  was  not  a  crime,  which  is  correct,  in- 
cidentally, and  that  thei-efore  j^ou  did  not  consider  that  to  be  a  charge. 
Then,  obviously,  the  question  and  the  answer  to  the  question :  "Are 
you  a  member  of  the  Communist  Party?"  could  not  incriminate  you, 
could  it? 

You,  yourself,  say  it  is  not  a  crime  to  be  a  member  of  the  party. 
This  committee  agrees.  Now,  I  ask  you  again :  Are  you  a  member  of 
the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Ullmann.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  grounds  that 
it  might  tend  to  degrade  and  incriminate  me. 

Mr.  Nixon.  That  is  all. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  ask  that  the  witness  be  reminded  that  he  is  to 
remain  under  the  authority  of  the  subpena,  and  we  will  ask  him  to 
appear  again. 

Mr.  Rein.  But  he  may  return  to  New  Jersey? 

Mr.  Stripling.  If  you  desire,  you  may  be  notified  through  Mr. 
Rein. 

Mr.  Rein.  Perhaps  you  had  better  notify  him  directly. 

The  Chairman.  The  next  witness,  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Robert  T.  Miller. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Miller.  Do  you  solemnly  swear  that  the  testi- 
mony you  will  give  before  this  committee  will  be  the  truth,  the  whole 
truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  do,  sir. 

TESTIMONY  or  ROBEET  T.  MILLER 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Miller,  will  you  j^lease  state  your  full  name, 
please  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Robert  Talbot  Miller. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  and  where  were  you  born  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  April  5,  1910,  Pittsburgh,  Pa. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Will  you  give  the  conmiittee  a  resume  of  your  edu- 
cational background? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  graduated  from  Kent  School  in  Connecticut  in  1927, 
and  Princeton  University  in  1931,  and  with  a  master  of  arts  degree 
from  Princeton  University  Graduate  School  in  1932. 

Mr.  Stripling.  And  would  you  also  identify  your  counsel? 

Mr.  Miller.  My  counsel  is  Mr.  Bertram  Bakerman. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  did  not  understand  you.  Will  counsel  stand  up 
and  identify  himself  before  the  committee?  ■ 

Mr.  Bakerman.  Certainly.     My  name  is  Bertram  Bakerman. 

Mr.  Stripling.  And  your  address  ? 

Mr.  Bakerman.  2G1  Broadway,  New  York  City. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Miller,  were  you  ever  employed  in  the  Federal 
Government  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  give  the  committee  a  resume  of  your 
Federal  Government  service? 

Mr.  Miller.  From  Sei^tember  1941  to  June  1944  I  was  head  of 
l^olitical  research  in  the  Coordinator  of  Inter-American  Affairs;  from 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  779 

June  1944  to  December  1946, 1  was  employed  in  the  State  Department 
on  two  different  jobs.     Do  you  want  me  to  give  them  to  you? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes ;  I  wish  you  woukl. 

Mr.  Miller.  One  was,  I  was  a  member  of  the  information  service 
conunittee  phiced  in  the  Office  of  Near  Eastern  Affairs.  That  was 
my  first  job;  and  the  second  job  was  as  Assistant  Chief  of  the  Division 
of  Research  and  Publication  in  charge  of  publications. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  study  in  the  Soviet  Union?  ^ 

Mr.  Miller,  No,  sir ;  no  formal  study. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Have  you  ever  been  to  the  Soviet  Union? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  lived  there  for  2%  years. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  were  you  doing  when  you  were  in  the  Soviet 
Union  ? 

ISIr.  Miller.  Originally,  I  went  over  with  the  intention  of  entering 
a  business  office  which,  however,  did  not  succeed,  so  I  remained  as  a 
journalist. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Representing  what  newspaper  ? 

Mr.  JNIiller.  Almost  entirely  a  series  of  British  newspapers:  the 
Manchester  Guardian,  the  London  Daily  Guardian,  Reuters  News 
Agency,  and  so  on. 

Mr.  vStripling.  When  you  were  employed  in  the  State  Department, 
did  you  have  access  to  secret  and  top-secret  information? 

JNIr.  Miller.  Secret,  yes ;  and  some  top  secret. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley  ? 

Mr.  ]\IiLLER.  Yes;  I  can  identify  this  woman  as  someone  I  knew 
some  years  ago  under  another  name. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  stand  up,  please,  and.  Miss  Bentley, 
vrould  you  stand  up  ? 

(Mr.  Miller  and  Miss  Bentley  stood  up.) 

Mr.  Stripling.  The  lady  standing  is  Elizabeth  T.  Bentley.  Have 
vou  ever  seen  this  person  before  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes :  a  number  of  times  under  the  name  of  Helen  Johns. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  have  seen  her  a  number  of  times  under  the 
name  of  Helen  Johns.     Was  that  your  answer  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  John,  or  Johns ;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Miller,  are  you  now  or  have  you  ever  been  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party? 

Mr.  Miller.  No.  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  never  have  been  a  member  of  the  party  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  No. 

Mr.  Stripling.  At  no  time  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  No. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  furnish  any  information  to  Elizabeth 
Bentley  or  Helen  Johns  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  No, 

Mr.  Stripling.  AVould  jo\i  tell  the  committee  your  addresses  for 
the  last  5  years  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Five  years  back  from  now  would  be  what  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Take  it  from  1940. 

Mr.  Miller.  From  1940.  From  1940  to  the  summer  of  1941, 1  lived 
at  10  Monroe  Street,  in  New  York  City;  from  the  sunnner  of  1941 
until  the  fall  of  1944, 1  lived  at  3000  Porter  Street,  Washington,  D.  C. ; 


780  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

and  from  the  fall  of  1944  until  February  of  the  current  year,  I  lived 
at  3223  Northampton  Street,  Washington,  D.  C. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Would  you  give  the  AVashington  address  again? 

Mr.  Miller.  3223  Northampton  Street  NW. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  What  is  your  present  address? 

Mr.  Miller.  2731  Palisades  Avenue.  New  York. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  meet  Elizabeth  Bentley  at  the  last  two 
addresses  at  Washington  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  At  the  first,  but  not  at  the  second. 

Mr.  Stripling.  That  was  at  30G0  Porter  Street  NW.,  Mr.  Miller? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Is  this  a  picture  of  the  residence  at  30G0  Porter 
Street  NW.? 

(Photograph  shown  to  witness.) 

Mr.  Miller.    Yes ;  I  see  it  has  the  number  on  it. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  did  meet  Elizabeth  Bentley  at  that  address? 

Mr.  Miller.  Once  or  twice ;  I  would  say  not  more. 

Mr.  Stripling.  What  was  the  purpose  of  the  meeting  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Social. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Are  you  acquainted  with  an  individual  by  the  name 
of  Jacob  Golos  ? 

]SIr.  Miller.  I  think  I  can  identify  the  person  who  introduced  me 
to  Miss  Bentley  as  Jacob  Golos,  but  this  man  was  known  to  me  as  John 
Friedman,  and  I  never  knew  the  name  of  Golos  till  very  recently. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  will  show  you  a  picture  of  him.  Is  this  the  indi- 
vidual you  knew  as  John  Friedman? 

(Photograph  shown  to  witness.) 

Mr.  Miller.  I  would  say  it  was  John  Friedman, 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  would  say  it  was  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Striplix  •.  How  long  did  j^ou  know  Mr.  Golos? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  met  Mr.  Golos  first  in  the  latter  part  of  1940. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  did  you  meet  him  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  He  visited — I  was  a  publisher  of  a  news  letter  on  Latin 
America  in  New  York  City  at  that  time.  I  say  I  was  a  publisher  of 
a  news  letter  on  Latin  America  in  New  York  City  at  that  time,  and 
numbers  of  people  visited  our  office  to  become  acquainted  with  the 
publication,  and  exchange  information,  and  so  on.  He  was  one  of 
these  people — this  man  whose  picture  you  have  shown  me.  He  visited 
this  office,  represented  himself  as  a  man  named  John  Friedman,  who 
was  in  the  exporting  and  importing  business,  so  he  said,  and  he  had  an 
interest  in  Latin  America,  and  had  an  interest  down  there,  and  was 
interested  in  the  publication,  and  we  struck  up  an  acquaintance  on  the 
basis  of  the  conversation  of  that  kind  at  that  time. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  often  did  you  see  him  after  this  meeting? 

Mr.  Miller.  It  is  hard  to  say;  that  is  so  long  ago.  It  may  have 
been  every  couple  (jf  months,  something  like  that.  I  would  not  want 
to  give  the  impression  that  there  were  regular  meetings.  I  saw  liim 
on  several  occasions  after  that. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  discuss  the  Communist  Party  affairs 
with  Mr.  Golos? 

Mr.  Miller.  No,  indeed. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  discuss  the  subject  of  communism 
with  him  ? 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  781 

INIr.  Miller.  No. 

Mr,   Stripling.  When  did  you  first  take  tlie  position  with  the 
CIAA? 

Mr.  Mn.LER.  September  1941. 

]Slr.  Stripling.  How  long  did  you  remain  with  that  organization? 

Mr.  Miller.  Until  June  1944. 

Mr.  Stripling.  While  you  were  employed  with  the  CIAA,  did  you 
meet  Mr.  Golos  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Once  or  twice  in  New  York. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  give  him  any  information  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Passing  through. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  connection  with  your  employment  at  CIAA? 

INIr.  Miller.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  meet  Elizabeth  Bentley  while  you  were 
employed  in  the  CIAA  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes;   I  met  this  woman,  who  is  now  identified  as 
Elizabeth  Bentley. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  many  times? 

Mr.  Miller.  It  would  be  very  hard  for  me  to  say,  sir.    I  saw  her  a 
number  of  times  over  a  period  of  approximately  2  years. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  she  ever  ask  you  for  any  information  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  No  ;  not  directly. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  she  indirectly? 

Mr.  Miller.  No.    I  mean  by  that  we  used  to  discuss  things. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  What  kind  of  things  would  you  discuss  ? 

Mr.    Miller.  Oh,    Latin    America,    Latin- American    affairs,    our 
friends — — 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Any  other  things? 

Mr.  Miller.  The  things  that  any  two  people  discuss  when  they 
are  together  on  a  social  basis.    We  discussed  movies,  books. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Were  you   ever  employed  by  the  Moscow   Daily 
News? 

Mr.  Miller.  No,  sir ;  I  was  not.    I  am  very  happy  to  say  I  was  not, 
because  apparently  there  has  been  an  impression  around  that  I  was. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  state  that  you  were  employed  by  the 
Chattanooga  News  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  not  only  stated  so,  I  was  employed  by  them. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  were  you  employed  by  the  Chattanooga 
News  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  wrote  a  weekly  article  for  the  Chattanooga  News 
from  Moscow  for,  to  the  best  of  my  recollection,  6  or  8  months. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Were  you  ever  asked  to  resign  from  the  Govern- 
ment ? 

Mr.  Miller.  When  I  left  the  Government,  some  of  these  allega- 
tions which  are  being  made  now  apparently  were  current ;  but  I  must 
say  tliat  I  did  not  understand  the  whole  thing,  and  I  discussed  this 
situatioji  with  my  superiors.     I  was  not  actually  asked  to  resign.    I 
decided  to  resign,  and  I  had  been  wanting  to  resign  anyway. 
Mr.  Stripling.  But  you  were  not  asked  to  resign  ? 
Mr.  Miller.  Not  directly  in  the  way  that  the  question  suggests. 
Mr.  Stripling.  Well,  give  the  committee  the  circumstances  under 
which  you  resigned. 

Mr.  Miller.  I  have  just  done  so. 
Mr.  Stripling.  Go  into  more  detail. 


782  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Miller.  Well,  I  was  asked — I  had  been  asked  sometime  before 
I  resigned  about  my  stay  in  Moscow  and  my  subsequent  activities,, 
and  it  began  to  appear  that  untrue  things  were  being  said  about  me,, 
but  things  that  it  was  ver}^  hard  to  combat  under  the  circumstances. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Miller,  who  asked  you  those  questions? 

Mr.  Miller.  The  investigators  of  the  State  Department. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Do  you  remember  their  names  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  One  was  Mr.  Bannerman. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Bannerman.    Was  Mr.  Murphy  one  of  them  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  do  not  recall  the  name.  I  do  not  recall  the  name  of 
the  other  man. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  But  you  do  recall  Mr.  Bannerman? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

The  Chairman.  Right  on  that  question,  before  we  go  on  to  another 
one,  you  requested — you  were  asked  questions  concerning  your  stay 
in  Moscow  and  subsequent  activities. 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

The  Chairman.  What  subsequent  activities? 

Mr.  Miller.  Oh,  all  about  this  news  letter  I  had  published ;  mainly 
about  that. 

The  Chairman.  Well,  did  they  object  to  the  news  letter  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  No;  they  did  not.  They  just  wanted  to  know  about 
it.  Frankly,  sir,  this  was,  oh,  roughly  2  years  ago  or  more,  and  I 
really  cannot  recall  the  exact  line  of  questioning. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Do  you  have  a  file  in  your  possession  of  the  news  letter 
that  you  published  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT,  Complete  file  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Practically  complete ;  yes.  I  am  sure  I  could  make  it 
complete. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Would  you  be  willing  to  supply  the  committee  with  a 
complete  file  of  the  news  letters  ? 

Mr,  Miller.  I  would  be  very  happy  to,  Mr.  Mundt,  and  also  I  can 
say  that  this  news  letter,  although  it  did  not  turn  out  to  be  a  financial 
success  in  a  subscription  sense,  became  very  well  thought  of  in  the 
field  of  Latin-American  news.  So  well  thought  of  that  it  was  sub- 
scribed to — it  was  sent  to  all  diplomatic  posts  in  Latin  America ;  it 
was  subscribed  to  all  over  the  Government  by  many  libraries  and 
many  business  houses,  and  so  on.  I  would  be  glad  to  give  you  an 
analysis  also  of  the  kind  of  subscribers  we  had. 

Mr.  JNIuNDT.  It  would  be  helpful,  but  I  do  not  think  it  would  be 
informative  if  we  had  a  complete  file  of  the  news  letters. 

Mr.  Miller.  I  would  be  very  happy  to  do  so.  I  may  sa}^  that  I 
am  very  ]n-oud  of  that  episode  in  my  life  because  I  think  it  was  a 
very  good  job. 

The  Chairman.  Go  ahead,  Mr.  Stripling. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Miller,  did  I  understand  you  to  say  that  you 
were  a  foreign  correspondent  of  the  Chattanooga  News  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  wrote  for  the  Chattanooga  News,  as  I  say,  once  a 
week  from  Moscow  for  6  or  8  months  in  19 — I  am  sorry,  in  1935. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  the  stories  appear  under  your  byline? 

•Mr.  Miller.  To  the  best  of  my  recollection  they  have.  I  could  check 
that,  I  think. 

Mr.  St^ripling.  Well,  is  it  your  impression  that  they  did  ? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  783 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stoipling.  Were  you  ever  employed  by  the  Reuters  News 
Agency  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  For  a  brief  period,  yes. 
Mr.  SiRirLiNG.  For  Ijow  long? 

Mv.  ]MiLi.ER.  Oh,  3  or  4  months ;  that,  I  do  not  recall  exactly  either, 
because  Avhat  happened  was  I  replaced  the  regular  correspondent  of 
Reuters,  who  went  awa}"  for  a  trip  back  to  America  and  England,  and 
stayed  awa}'  quite  awhile.  It  may  have  been  even  up  to  G  or  8 
months. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Are  you  married? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes,  sir. 
■    Mr.  Stripling.  What  is  your  Avife's  maiden  name? 

Mr.  Miller.  May  I  ask  why  that  question  is  asked  ? 

The  Chairman.  What  was  the  question.  Mr.  Stripling? 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  asked  him  what  his  wife's  maiden  name  was. 

The  Chairman.  I  think  the  chief  investigator  is  just  trying  to 
identify  you  and  identify  your  wife. 

Mv.  AIiller.  Mr.  Cliairman,  that  question  has  been  asked  of  me,  and 
possibly  of  others  from  time  to  time,  and  I  am  sorry,  but  possibly 
this  is  not  the  case  here ;  sometimes  I  have  had  the  impression  that  it 
was  to  bring  out  the  fact  that  she  was  J.ewish.  Her  name  is  Jenny 
Levy. 

The  Chairman.  I  want  to  tell  you  right  now  that  if  you  have  gotten 
that  idea  or  if  anybody  else  has  gotten  the  idea,  it  is  just  100  percent 
wrong.    You  can  count  on  that. 

Mr.  Stripling.  I  assure  you,  Mr.  ]SIiller,  that  was  not  the  purpose 
of  the  inquiry. 

Mr.  Miller.  I  accept  your  statement. 

Mr.  MiNDT.  We  do  not  haA-e  the  name. 

Mr.  Miller.  Jenny  Levy. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Mr.  Miller,  are  you  acquainted 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Before  we  leave  that — your  wife — she  was  an  American 
citizen? 

Mr.  Miller.  Indeed  she  was,  born  in  New  York. 

Mr.  IMuNDT.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Miller.  And  is. 

JNlr.  Stripling.  Was  she  a  correspondent  for  the  Moscow  Daily 
News? 

Mr.  Miller.  She  was  on  the  staff  of  the  Moscow  Daily  News  at  one 
time. 

Mr.  Stripling.  In  the  LTnited  States  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  In  the  United  States? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  she  represent  the  Moscow  Daily  News  in  the 
United  States? 

Mr.  INIiller.  Certainly  not,  sir.  I  did  not  know  they  had  any  repre- 
sentatives here. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Well,  they  have  a  lot  of  representatives  that  we  do 
not  know  about.     [Laughter.] 

Mv.  Miller.  Well,  she  was  not  one  of  them. 

Mr.  Stripling.  She  was  not.  Do  you  know  Nathan  Gregory  Silver- 
ma  stei-  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes,  sir. 


784  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  have  you  known  Nathan  Gregory  Silver- 
master  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Oh,  since  some  time  in  1945, 1  think. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  did  you  meet  Mr.  Silvermaster? 

Mr.  Miller.  At  some  party  around  Washington.  I  do  not  remem- 
ber where. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  many  times  did  you  meet  him?  More  than 
once  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  After  I  got  to  know  him,  you  mean  ? 

Mr.  Stripling.  Yes. 

Mr.  Miller.  He  was  a  neighbor  of  mine.  We  lived  a  couple  of 
blocks  away  from  each  other  in  Chevy  Chase,  and  we  used  to  see  him 
quite  often. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Did  you  ever  go  to  Mr.  Silvermaster's  basement? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  do  not  remember,  sir, 

ISIr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  a  Maurice  Halperin  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Is  he  a  friend  of  yours  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Joseph  B.  Gregg  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Sure ;  I  do. 

Mr.  Stripling.  You  do  know  him? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes,  indeed. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  well  do  you  know  him  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Pretty  well. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  William  Ludwig  Ullmann? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  How  long  liave  you  known  Mr.  Ullmann? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  met  him  at  the  same  time  that  I  met  Mr.  Silver- 
master. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  Charles  Recht? 

Mr.  Miller.  No. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  you  know  John  Marsalka  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Where  did  you  meet  John  JNIarsalka  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  When  he  Avas  with  the  ^^Vinerican  consulate  in  Moscow. 

Mr.  Stripling.  When  was  that  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Well,  it  was  when  I  was  staying  there,  in  either  1935 
or  1936;  I  could  not  say  precisely  when. 

Mr.  Stripling.  Do  the  members  have  any  questions  at  this  time? 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Mundt. 

Mr.  INIuNDT.  I  don't  believe  that  you  went  into  the  circumstances, 
Mr.  Miller,  of  your  first  meeting  with  Miss  Bentley,  other  tlian  your 
saying  that  you  met  her  under  some  other  name. 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Will  you  tell  us  under  what  circumstances  you  first 
met  her? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  was  introduced  to  her  by  this  man  John  Friedman,  or 
Golos,  as  lie  is  called  here. 

Mr.  jMundt.  In  New  York? 

Mr.  Miller.  In  New  York;  yes.  I  believe  we  went  out  to  dinner 
together. 

Mr.  Mundt.  What  did  he  say  about  Miss  Bentley  when  he  intro- 
duced you  ? 


COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE  785 

Mr.  Miller.  That  slie  was  a  friend  of  liis,  and  it  was  apparent  that 
she  was.     [Lan<2:hter.] 

Mr.  MuNDT.  When  did  you  next  meet  Miss  Bentley  ? 

Mr.  MiivLER.  Shortly  after  that.  I  do  not  remember  just  when,  a 
month  or  two,  maybe. 

Mr.  Mi^NDT.  Always  in  connection  with  Mr.  Golos  or  sometimes 
without  Mr.  Golos? 

Mr.  Miller.   Often  without  him. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  met  her  several  times  then  at  a  time  when  you 
lived  in  New  York  f 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  And  when  you  moved  to  Washington,  did  you  ever 
meet  her  in  Washington  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Sometimes  in  your  home? 

Mr.  Miller.  A  few  times;  yes. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Sometimes  downtown  in  restaurants  or  druff  stores? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes;  that  is  right. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Did  she  at  any  time  in  her  conversation  lead  you  to 
believe  that  she  had  radical  or  comnnmistic  leanings? 

Mr.  Miller.   No,  sir. 

Mr.  Mundt.  Did  she  ever  seek  information  from  you  ? 

Mr.  Miller.   No,  sir. 

Mr.  Mi^NDT.  Did  you  ever  meet  her  in  the  Silvermaster  home? 

Mr.  Miller.  No,  indeed.  Actually  Miss  Bentley  became  more  or 
less  of  a  nuisance  to  me  after  I  had  known  her  a  couple  of  years,  and 
in  the  spring  of  lO-t-t  I  told  her  I  would  prefer  to  stop  these  bother- 
some meetings  that  she  insisted  on  having,  and  we  did,  and  I  have  laid 
no  eyes  on  her  until  this  verv  dav. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  I  am  sorry  I  cannot  hear  what  you  say. 

]\Ir.  Miller.  What  I  am  saying  is  important,  and  I  want  you  to 
hear  it. 

Mr.  Mundt.  I  would  like  to  hear  it. 

Mr.  Miller.  Shall  I  begin  at  the  beginning? 

Mr.  Mundt.   Please. 

Mr.  Miller.  I  say  gradually,  as  this  business  wore  on.  Miss  Bentley 
would  telephone  me  when  she  was  down  here  from  New  York,  and 
I  would  go  to  have  dinner  or  lunch  with  her,  and  it  got  to  be  pretty 
much  of  a  nuisance.  Also  she  was  under  some  nervous  tension  of 
some  kind  apparently,  and  she  had  begun  to  drink,  and  she  showed 
up  at  a  couple  of  these  meetings  in  not  a  very  happy  condition. 

Mr.  Mundt.  What  reason  would  she  give  you  on  the  telephone  for 
"wanting  to  see  you  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Just  social  reasons,  as  it  had  always  been.  She  just 
said,  "Come  on  and  have  lunch." 

Mr.  MirNDT.  And  you  would  go  ahead  and  have  lunch  with  her, 
meet  her  downtown,  even  though  it  was  a  nuisance  with  respect  to  her. 

Mr.  Miller.  Well,  yes.  After  it  got  to  be  bad  enough  of  a  nuisance 
it  quit,  and  I  want  to  make  very  clear  I  have  not  seen  this  woman  since 
the  spring  of  1044;  I  would  say  March  or  April  of  that  year. 

Mr.  Mi'NDT.  When  did  you  last  see  Mr.  Golos,  whom  you  knew 
under  the  name  of  Mr.  Friedman? 

80408—48 19 


786  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Miller.  I  cannot  remember.  It  was  probably  sometime  in 
1942, 1  guess.    It  might  have  been  1943. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Will  you  detail  to  the  committee,  Mr.  Miller,  the 
circumstances  under  which  you  first  entered  the  Federal  employment  ? 
How  did  you  happen  to  change  from  private  life  to  your  first  con- 
nection with  the  Inter-American  Coordinator  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Sure.  This  news  letter  that  I  speak  of  was  a  partner- 
ship. My  partner  was  a  man  who  had  lived  in  Latin  America  for  a 
number  of  years. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Put  his  name  in  the  record. 

Mr.  Miller.  All  right.  He  had  been  interested  for  some  time  in 
starting  a  news  letter  on  Latin  America,  and  that  more  or  less  coin- 
cided with  my  ideas. 

I  had  more  newspaper  experience  than  he  had,  and  we  got  together 
and  started  this  thing,  and  its  operation  depended  pretty  much  on 
our  both  being  there.  So  in  the  spring  of  1941  he  encountered  some 
people  who  were  working  with  Nelson  Rockefeller  to  get  the  Coordi- 
nator of  Inter-American  Affairs  started,  and  he,  having  had  a  lot  of 
Latin -American  experience  and  being  a  rather  talented  fellow,  they 
wanted  him  for  their  staff  in  the  field,  so  that  he  was  hired. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  What  was  his  name  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Jack  B.  Fahy.  He  is  now  dead.  So,  he  w^ent  to  th& 
field  for  the  Rockefeller  ofhce,  oh,  I  guess  in  April,  May,  June  of  1941 ; 
and  after  that,  pretty  much  of  the  entire  burden  of  editing  and  writ- 
ing the  thing  and  doing  the  other  editorial  work  around  there  fell  on 
me,  and  it  became  apparent  that  it  could  not  continue  much  longer. 

At  the  same  time,  the  people  who  had  originally  approached  him 
about  going  into  the  Rockefeller  office,  then  approached  me,  saying 
that  they  were  looking  for  the  kind  of  a  person  that  I  was  to  take  over 
an  operation  of  processing  news  and  information  internally  in  the  Co- 
ordinator's office. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Who  specifically  approached  you,  Mr.  Fahj  or  N&lsoii 
Rockefeller  or  who? 

Mr.  Miller.  Well,  through  Mr.  Fahy  I  met  Nelson  Rockefeller, 
Carl  B.  Spate,  and  Hadley  Cantril  and  a  number  of  other  people,  and 
I  discussed  coming  down  there  with  all  of  them,  and  I  finally  did. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  You  worked  with  him  for  about  2  years  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Well,  from  September  1941  to  June  1944. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Wliat  impelled  you  to  change  from  that  section  to  the 
State  Department? 

Mr.  Miller.  Well,  I  have  always  had  an  approach  to  jobs  that 
Avhen  they  are  established  and  going,  and  the  best  has  been  gotten  out 
of  them,  I  would  like  to  go  on  to  something  new  and  something  tougher, 
and  we  had  done  quite  a  job,  I  think,  in  setting  up  this  information 
processing  operation  within  the  Coordinator's  office ;  and  Mr.  Rocke- 
feller had  led  us  to  believe  that  it  was  useful  to  him,  and  the  whole 
thing  was  running  like  a  clock.  At  the  same  time,  if  you  remember, 
I  forget  who  the  Secretary  of  State  was  then,  but  that  was  the  begin- 
ning of  the  time  of  the  reorganization  in  the  State  Department,  and  a 
lot  of  things  that  we  had  done  they  had  not  done,  and  some  of  their 
peo})le  got  interested  in  me  to  come  over  there  and  help  work  on  that. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Who,  specifically? 

Mr,  Miller.  The  person  I  talked  to  principally  about  that  was  Jack 
Erhardt,  who  was  then  the  head  of  the  Office  of  Foreign  Service. 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  787 

Mr.  MuNDT.  He  is  the  man  who  is  now  our  Minister  in  Vienna? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  think  he  is  Minister  in  Vienna.    I  am  not  certain. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  He  approached  you  with  the  suggestion  first  that  you 
switch  from  that  Office  to  the  State  Department? 

Mr.  Miller.  Actually,  sir,  I  think  it  was  a  letter  from  him  to 
Cantril  or  he  spoke  to  Cantril  about  me,  the  fellow  who  had  originally 
brought  me  into  the  Eockefeller  office. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Mr.  Fahy  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  No;  Hadley  Cantril.  He  is  professor  of  social  psy- 
chology at  Princeton,  and  a  classmate  of  Nelson  Kockefeller's  at 
Dartmouth. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  And  you  stayed  in  the  State  Department  until  this 
unpleasantness  developed  about  your  past  experience,  and  these  ques- 
tions, and  at  that  time  you  say  you  had  about  decided  to  quit  the  State 
Department  anyhow,  so,  after  a  discussion  about  this  past  record  of 
yours,  you  resigned. 

Mr.  Miller.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  And  what  are  you  doing  now,  Mr.  Miller  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  am  in  the  public-relations  business  in  New  York  City. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Self-employed? 

Mr.  Miller.  No  ;  I  am  working  for  a  firm  named  Randolph  Feltus. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Those  are  all  the  questions  at  this  time. 

The  Chairmax.  The  Chair  would  like  to  announce  that  the  com- 
mittee will  go  into  a  short  recess,  and  the  witness  will  step  back  and 
take  a  seat,  and  we  will  call  him  just  as  soon  as  we  come  back  from  the 
recess. 

(Short  recess  taken.) 

The  Chairman.  The  meeting  will  come  to  order.  Everyone  please 
take  their  seats. 

We  will  resume  with  the  testimony  of  Mr.  Miller. 

Mr.  McDowell. 

Mr.  McDowell.  I  yield  to  the  gentleman  from  California. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Nixon. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Miller,  you  indicated  that  you  lived  a  couple  of 
doors  away  from  Mr.  Silvermaster  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  A  couple  of  blocks  away. 

Mr.  Nixon.  I  see.  He  visited  in  your  home  and  you  visited  in  his 
from  time  to  time? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  There  is  one  point  in  which  the  committee  has  been 
particular^  interested  in  these  investigations,  and  that  is  whether  or 
not  Mr.  Silvermaster  did  have  some  photographic  equipment  in  his 
basement.     Did  you  ever  see  any  there? 

Mr.  Miller.  No. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  Mr.  Silvermaster — did  you  ever  hear  Mr.  Silver- 
master  or  any  other  people  in  his  house  discuss  photographic  equip- 
ment that  he  had  in  his  basement  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  know  whether  he  had  any  photographic  equip- 
ment in  his  basement  or  not? 

Mr.  Miller.  No  ;  I  do  not. 

Mr.  Nixon.  It  was  never  discussed  in  your  presence  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  No. 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Do  you  know  that  he  did  not  have  any  ? 


788  COMMUNIST   ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Mii.LER.  What  is  that? 

Mr.  MuNDT.  Would  you  know  whether  he  did  not  have  photographic 
equipment  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  just  do  not  know. 

]Mr.  MuNDT.  You  would  not  know  either  way. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  indicated  that  Mr.  Golos  and  you  were  acquainted 
over  a  period  of  time. 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  But  that  acquaintanceship,  as  I  understand,  was  purely 
social,  not  a  business  acquaintanceship,  in  other  words. 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  In  other  words,  you  were  a  guest  at  his  home  and  he 
was  a  guest  at  your  home? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  never  visited  his  home ;  no,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixoi^.  I  am  sorry,  I  did  not  hear  that. 

Mr.  Miller,  I  say  I  never  visited  his  home. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Well,  but  he  was  at  your  home  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  could  not  recall  quite  precisely.  I  would  say  prob- 
ably not. 

Mr.  Nixon.  But  you  saw  him  a  number  of  times  over  a  period  of 
years. 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Where  did  you  see  him  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  We  used  to  have  dinner.  We  used  to  have  dinner  or 
lunch.  I  do  not  mean  frequently.  We  used  to  have  dinner  or  lunch 
when  we  met. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And,  as  far  as  you  know,  the  times  that  you  met  Mr. 
Golos  were,  say,  in  public  restaurants  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  you  never  recall  a  meeting  either  at  his  home  or  in 
your  home  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  No. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  never  had  any  business  dealings  with  Mr.  Golos 
at  all? 

Mr.  Miller.  No. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  you  never  had  any  financial  transactions  with  him 
at  all? 

Mr.  Miller.  No,  indeed. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  you  and  Mr.  Golos,  during  that  period  of  time — 
were  there  other  guests  present,  in  addition  to  Mr.  Golos?  You  men- 
tioned this  person  who  was  present  on  one  occasion.  Do  you  recall 
any  occasion  in  which  anybody  might  have  been  present  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  No  ;  I  do  not. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Can  you  say  that  any  other  people  were  present  at  the 
times  that  you  met  Mr.  Golos  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  None  that  I  recall;  no.  I  would  say  there  was  not 
anybody  present. 

Mr.  Nixon.  There  were  not.    In  other  words,  just  you  and  Mr.  Golos  ? 
Mr.  Miller.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Nixon.  During  the  times  that  you  met  these  meetings  were 
purely  social  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  That  is  right. 


COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE  789 

Mr.  Nixon.  Do  you  recall  whether  or  not  you  did  discuss  at  any 
time  any — I  assume  that  you  probably  did  discuss  political  matters, 
from  time  to  time. 

Mr.  Miller.  Oh,  we  discussed  situations  in  Latin  America — I  mean 
conditions,  changing  conditions  in  dill'erent  countries. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Will  you  repeat  that,  please  ? 

The  Chairman.  Your  voice  has  failed  since  we  left  the  room. 

Mr.  JNIiLLER.  I  will  try  to  bring  it  back.  Why  don't  you  get  a 
microphone  that  stands  up  to  people  'i 

The  Chairman.  Just  talk  into  it. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Just  talk  into  it. 

Mr.  Miller.  I  say  we  discussed  situations  in  Latin  America ;  yes, 
sir;  changing  conditions. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Golos  was  very  much  interested  in  conditions  in 
Latin  America  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  What  type  of  information  did  you  give  him,  or  did  he 
give  you,  in  regard  to  the  situation  in  Latin  America  during  these 
conversations  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Well,  I  do  not  know  that  you  could  really  say  that — 
I  say  I  do  not  think  you  w^ould  really  refer  to  information  being  given, 
but  we  would  discuss  things. 

Mr.  Nixon.  What  type  of  information  was  transmitted  between  you 
two  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  It  was  in  the  form  of  discussions  of  situations  in  which 
he  would  learn  what  I  knew,  and  I  would  learn  what  he  knew. 

Mr.  NixoN.  He  was  interested  in  what  you  knew,  and  you  were 
interested  in  what  he  knew  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  That  is  right. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Was  that  the  nature  of  the  subject  that  you  discussed 
during  that  period  in  Latin  America  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Well,  I  would  say  occasionally. 

Mr.  Nixon.  What  did  you  discuss  about  Latin  America,  the  busi- 
ness situation,  the  political  situation  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes ;  in  different  countries. 

Mr.  Nixon.  I  see.  Did  you  ever  discuss  the  Comnumist  Party  in- 
filtration into  Latin- American  countries  by  any  chance? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  do  not  recall  that ;  no,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Mr.  Golos  was  not  interested  in  that  particular  subject? 

Mr.  Miller.  No,  sir ;  as  he  represented  himself  to  me 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  did  not  know  whether  or  not  Mr.  Golos  was  a 
member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  did  not  know  whether  or  not  Miss  Bentley  was  a 
member  of  the  Connnunist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  did  not  know  whether  or  not  Mr.  Silvermaster  was 
a  member  of  the  Communist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Certainly  not,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  You  did  not  know  whether  or  not  Mr.  Ullmann  was  a 
member  of  the  Connnunist  Party? 


790  COMMUNIST  ESPIONAGE 

Mr.  Miller.  I  would  have  to  say  that  with  regard  to  these  two  they 
were — Silvermaster  and  Ulhnann — they  were  both  respected  Govern- 
ment employees  of  fairly  high  standing  for  a  number  of  years. 

Mr.  Nixon.  In  other  words,  you  were  apparently  quite  surprised  at 
the  implication  which  is  that  these  people  were  members  of  the 
Communist  Party,  I  gather. 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  During  all  the  time  that  you  knew  them  socially  over  a 
period  of  time,  you  never,  from  your  discussions  with  them,  had  any 
idea  that  they  might  be  members  of  the  Conununist  Party  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  No,  indeed. 

Mr.  Nixon.  In  fact,  you  mean  that  in  all  those  discussions  then, 
you  never  discussed  political  matters;  is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Miller.  An  informed  person  can  hardly  talk  to  anyone  now- 
adays without  discussing  politics  in  one  way  or  the  other.  But  cer- 
tainly there  was  nothing  in  these  discussions  which  led  me  to  believe 
that  any  of  these  people  were  Communists. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Now,  proceeding  to  your  acquaintanceship  with  Miss 
Bentley,  that  was  over  a  period,  do  I  understand,  of  how  many  years? 

Mr.  Miller.  Between  two  and  three. 

Mr.  Nixon.  And  you  saw  her  on  several  occasions  during  that 
period  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  Yes. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Apj>roximately  how  long?  I  mean,  to  the  best  of  your 
recollection  ? 

Mr.  Miller.  It  is  awfully  hard  to  say,  sir. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Approximately  every  2  weeks,  would  you  say? 

Mr.  Miller.  No,  not  as  often  as  that. 

Mr.  Nixon.  Well,  approximately  every  month,  would  you  say? 

Mr.  Miller.  I  would  not  say  approxi